[Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

«‹›3683 »

What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed.
🦋	15	3.71%
🦇	115	28.47%
🪰	12	2.97%
🐦	67	16.58%
dragonfly	94	23.27%
🦟	14	3.47%
🐝	87	21.53%
Total:	404 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Horseshoe theory: Mar 7, 2005

crepeface posted:

https://twitter.com/FT/status/1599404092970999810?s=20&t=_NVYmbM18tPRUhblA92PwA

EU belatedly trying to stop the US from cannibalizing all their industry

guessing it'll have as many loopholes the gas cap had

Here's hoping Biden busts out the trade sanctions from Trump again! :getin:

# ? Dec 5, 2022 04:21

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 25, 2024 22:47

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Majorian posted:

He's holding a loving baguette in that photo. LMFAO

lol

# ? Dec 5, 2022 04:21

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

Majorian posted:

He's holding a loving baguette in that photo. LMFAO

anti-gaulist racism from the mods smdh

# ? Dec 5, 2022 04:24

Dixon Chisholm: Jan 2, 2020

speng31b posted:

idk we could always try to double or triple down. lots of biden family

Despite Joe's best efforts...

# ? Dec 5, 2022 04:26

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

I can tell the thread straight off there isn�t any signs of rebellion, collapse or revolution in Russia itself unless something radically changes.

If anything life is supposedly getting back to normal after mobilization. Most people already assumed that full mobilization was locked in from the get to even though it hasn�t happened yet.

The only real sense of urgency is from telegram.

That said, I don�t think Europe will be in revolution either, Ukraine collapsing into total anarchy is the more likely scenario.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 05:21 on Dec 5, 2022

# ? Dec 5, 2022 04:30

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

The anti-twitter

# ? Dec 5, 2022 04:42

Corky Romanovsky: Oct 1, 2006; Soiled Meat

gradenko_2000 posted:

This was apparently a report sourced from bellingcat. I also saw a thread debunking it, that the pictures were from years back, but the thread has the pictures so I will not be linking it here.

I poked around and the poster tries to track it back to the original source, and yes they seem to have gotten to a bellingcat affiliate, but someone else links to another post that is supposed to be earlier still and from a popular LHR/Russian source. They also try to make excuses about knees and foot angle and the sacks on the head, all of which seems to be stretching. It is very likely civilians got hung here.

The conflict shouldn't be happening and civilians will continue to be at risk, particularly in territory at the front, especially in areas that change hands.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 04:49

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Fact check: Is there any truth to Russia's 'Ukrainian Nazis' propaganda?

quote:

Ever since the start of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and even before, there were stories circulating that claimed many Ukrainians were adherents of Nazism.�

On well-known propaganda channels such as the German-language Telegram group "Neues aus Russland" ("News from Russia"), run by the allegedly independent journalist Alina Lipp, assertions regarding "Ukrainian Nazis" are rife. Such posts are influential � Lipp's channel alone has more than 183,000 subscribers.

A simple search on the channel shows that the word "Nazi" occurs 285 times, "National Socialism" 22 times and "swastika" 17 times (as of November 25).

But why is there this narrative about Ukrainian Nazis? And what about the alleged evidence spread by pro-Russian accounts on social media?

Claim No. 1: A video in a tweet allegedly coming from the Arab news broadcaster Al Jazeera says three drunk Ukrainians spread Nazi symbols at the football World Cup in Qatar.

DW fact check: False

Russian journalist and propagandist Vladimir Solovyov has also shown this video on his Telegram channel, where it has been watched almost 400,000 times as of November 25. In the style of Al Jazeera, the video reports on how three Ukrainians drew a Hitler mustache on a graffiti image of the FIFA World Cup mascot and wrote a Nazi slogan next to it. The video also claims the three Ukrainians had destroyed 10 posters near the Al Bayt Stadium, and that they were then arrested without protest.

The video and its claims are fake, as our research has shown and Al Jazeera itself said in its own fact check.

In the clip, one can see the Al Jazeera logo and fonts that are very similar to the authentic videos of the broadcaster. The video itself does not show the three specific alleged Ukrainian fans, but only general images of Ukrainian supporters.

Although that is a usual procedure in journalism, it is interesting that no more specific details are given on the men � which is cause for suspicion, as men aged between 18 and 60 have not been allowed to leave Ukraine since mobilization was announced there. What's more, the Ukrainian team did not even qualify for the World Cup.

It is also striking that the name of Al Bayt Stadium was written incorrectly as El Beit. Nor are there any pictures of the allegedly ruined posters to be seen. A scene is also shown in which the Ukrainian fans are allegedly arrested � but the clothing worn by the police is not that used by the security staff on duty at the World Cup, according to the Qatari Interior Ministry.

If the emblem seen on the arm of one of the alleged officers is put into a reverse image search, it leads to various websites that indicate that it is a military badge, though it's not clear from what country.

In conclusion, the video was examined by various fact checkers and is fake. Al Jazeera, the alleged originator, has also confirmed that it is faked.

Claim No. 2: "Some Ukrainian fighters wear the slogan 'Jedem das Seine' ["to each his own" � a slogan written on the main gate of the Buchenwald concentration camp � Editor's note] as a sign of their commitment to neo-Nazism," the above-mentioned Alina Lipp writes on her Telegram channel, publishing a photo that is meant to serve as proof.

DW fact check: False

The photo has clearly been manipulated, as our research shows. The slogan was superimposed on the soldier's helmet using image-processing software, a reverse image search reveals. What's more, the original photo is turned about as a mirror image.

The men on the photo are also not unknown. They are from the Ukrainian band Antytila, which no longer just sings but also helps defend Ukraine against the Russian invasion. The band became known internationally when they recorded a remix of the song "2Step" with the musician Ed Sheeran. International media such as The Washington Post used the photo, showing the band members in soldiers' uniforms, as a feature image.

Claim No. 3: In a Ukrainian shopping mall, there is a staircase with a big swastika on it � that is implied by a video that is spread by this Twitter user, among others.

DW fact check: Misleading

The video, which has often been shared on social media, shows a huge LED swastika shining on a staircase, with a big red heart further up, in a shopping center called Gorodok in Kyiv.

The video is indeed authentic � but misleading. According to a statement by the shopping center that was published three days later on Facebook, the incident occurred back on February 16, 2019, at around 1:30 p.m.�
Hackers were said to be responsible for the LED swastika. The statement said a security guard had informed managerial staff as soon as he noticed the Nazi symbol on the illuminated staircase, whereupon the shopping center immediately turned off the lighting.

The case was reported to investigating authorities. On July 29, 2019, the Kyiv state prosecutor's office said in a press statement that a 17-year-old had accessed the computer system with the software TeamViewer. The logo of the software can be seen in the video.

According to the state prosecutor, the password of the system could briefly be seen, something the youth exploited to be able to insert the swastika. A large number of fact checks have already been published about the video.

In conclusion, while it is true that a swastika was displayed for a few minutes in a shopping center in Kyiv, it wasn't intentional. It was the result of a hacking attack, and not a permanent LED fixture.

Putin's narrative about 'Ukrainian Nazis'

So the fact is that many of the claims about alleged "Ukrainian Nazis" are invented, or misleading. But the narrative persists because Russian President Vladimir Putin and Russian propagandists are constantly spreading false information.

Even in his speech shortly before Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine in late February, Putin spoke of Russia having to "denazify" Ukraine. So-called denazification is a historical term that has to do with the policy of the victorious Allied powers toward Nazi Germany after World War II. They wanted to rid the country of Nazi influences and remove those associated with the ideology from office.

But the comparison with Ukraine does not hold up, Andreas Umland, an analyst at the Stockholm Center for Eastern European Studies told DW back in February. "The president of Ukraine is a Russian-speaking Jew, who won the last presidential election against a non-Jewish Ukrainian candidate by a huge margin," he said, adding that the talk of Nazism in Ukraine was completely unfounded.

Umland said that although there were right-wing extremists groups in Ukraine, they were relatively weak in comparison with many European countries. "We had a unity front of all the right-wing radical parties at the last [EU] parliamentary elections in 2019, and that unity front received 2.15%," he said.

What about the Azov Battalion?

There has also been criticism of right-wing Ukrainian militia members who were fighting against the separatists in the east of Ukraine earlier this year � above all, the Azov Battalion. Umland said that although it was founded by a right-wing extremist group, it was integrated into forces of the Interior Ministry, the National Guard, in the fall of 2014.

After that, he said, there had been a separation of the movement and the regiment, with the latter still using the former's symbols but no longer being classified as part of the right-wing extremist scene. During military training courses, extremist soldiers had sometimes come to light, he said, but they had then "been revealed and named as a scandal."

checkmate you loving tankies

# ? Dec 5, 2022 05:30

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

quote:

But the comparison with Ukraine does not hold up, Andreas Umland, an analyst at the Stockholm Center for Eastern European Studies told DW back in February. "The president of Ukraine is a Russian-speaking Jew, who won the last presidential election against a non-Jewish Ukrainian candidate by a huge margin," he said, adding that the talk of Nazism in Ukraine was completely unfounded.

So uh what was his platform by the way? That he won the election with by such a huge margin?

# ? Dec 5, 2022 05:36

ModernMajorGeneral: Jun 25, 2010

Good to see DW fact checking misleading claims about nazis in Ukraine and atoning for their past mistakes

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-anti-putin-protests-with-nazi-symbols/video-17493377

Ukraine: Anti-Putin protests with Nazi symbols

quote:

The upheavals in Ukraine have seen a boost in support for far-right groups. They now want their share of the political spoils.

goes to show how much you can heal, change and grow since 2014, just like the Azov battalion

# ? Dec 5, 2022 05:42

Turtle Watch: Jul 30, 2010; by Games Forum

Egg Moron posted:

no one knows what the gently caress is happening, it's all getting mediated by the C LIE A through their information super SPYway, the world wide WEB OF LIES

# ? Dec 5, 2022 05:46

Isizzlehorn: Feb 25, 2010

gradenko_2000 posted:

Fact check: Is there any truth to Russia's 'Ukrainian Nazis' propaganda?

checkmate you loving tankies

lmaooooo that chaser, can't have nazi's if we alraedy fully integrated them into the national guard 8 years ago

cool cool cool

# ? Dec 5, 2022 06:46

Futanari Damacy: Oct 30, 2021; by sebmojo

crepeface posted:

https://twitter.com/FT/status/1599404092970999810?s=20&t=_NVYmbM18tPRUhblA92PwA

EU belatedly trying to stop the US from cannibalizing all their industry

guessing it'll have as many loopholes the gas cap had

We should only listen to democratically elected leaders. The EU Commissioner is not one of them.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 07:40

ModernMajorGeneral: Jun 25, 2010

A Russian pilot was detained by civilians in occupied Kherson. A Ukrainian city councilman released him � and now faces charges of treason.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-city-councilman-accused-treason-returning-russian-pilot-2022-12

quote:

Shortly after Russian forces captured Kherson in March, a group of civilians detained a Russian pilot, and a local city council member, unsure of what to do with them, decided to release him. He now faces charges of treason from the Ukrainian government.

Kherson, a southern port, was the first major Ukrainian city taken by Russian forces after the invasion in February. The regional capital was held for eight months until Russian officials announced a retreat in November, delivering a humiliating blow to President Vladimir Putin's war effort and placing the city back in Ukraine's hands.

Illia Karamalikov, a nightclub owner and city councilman, had organized civilian patrols after the Russian takeover resulted in chaos, according to The New York Times. On March 15, Karamalikov got a call that one of the patrol groups had found and detained a Russian pilot who was covered in mud and stumbling.

"Nobody knew what to do," Mykhailo Velychko, Karamalikov's lawyer, told the Times. "They couldn't hand him over to Ukrainian forces � there were no Ukrainian forces in the city at that time. And there was no Red Cross. And the Russians were everywhere."

After temporarily detaining the pilot in a room at his home, Karamalikov, unsure of what else to do, made plans to release him to Russian forces.

Two months later, Karamalikov was arrested while traveling away from Kherson and back into Ukrainian-held territory, according to CNN. The indictment said he took "actions aimed at harming the sovereignty, territorial integrity and inviolability" of Ukraine and that he switched "to the side of the aggressor country of the Russian Federation during martial law, and assisting its representatives in subversive activities against Ukraine."

Velichko denied all the charges and said Karamalikov was trying to keep order in Kherson.

The Times interviewed over a dozen people in Kherson about Karamalikov, and they all agree with his decision, saying that to keep the pilot in a city dominated by Russian forces would've put civilians at risk.

The case highlights a challenge facing Ukrainian authorities after Russian forces retreat. The country said it's investigating hundreds of cases of Ukrainians accused of collaborating with Russia, but some have said local officials may have chosen to remain in their positions in order to help residents or look after their city, rather than support the enemy.

we can add 'deciding not to lock Russian troops up in your house (or worse) while living in a city under Russian control' to the list of treasonous acts

# ? Dec 5, 2022 09:50

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Starsfan posted:

The ground around Kherson is very unfavorable for attacking over (wide open) and it was unclear if Ukraine was ever going to be able to directly capture the city, if you take the Russian's word on it their calculus on holding that ground changed when it became apparent that the dams up the river were being threatened by Ukrainian artillery and a potential flooding situation could strand the Russian combat group in the city away from the rest of their forces and supplies.

ukrainians committing war crimes on their own people just to own the russians??? thats crazy talk when has this ever happened

# ? Dec 5, 2022 10:35

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

Some Guy TT posted:

ukrainians committing war crimes on their own people just to own the russians??? thats crazy talk when has this ever happened

The rules of war are unfortunately hazier on this topic than one might think. Per the DoD laws of war manual:

quote:

Attack of facilities, works, or installations containing dangerous forces, such as dams, nuclear power plants, or facilities producing weapons of mass destruction, is permissible so long as it is conducted in accordance with other applicable rules, including the rules of discrimination and proportionality

It�s all very �well, the strategic value has to outweigh the damage to civilian infrastructure, buuuuuut�we�re gonna let the field commanders make that calculation.� An attitude which, shockingly, the Russians mirror when they attack Ukrainian civilian infrastructure themselves.

That�s the fun of being an American ally: reaping what we Americans sow.

Majorian has issued a correction as of 10:53 on Dec 5, 2022

# ? Dec 5, 2022 10:49

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

Majorian posted:

The rules of war are unfortunately hazier on this topic than one might think. Per the DoD laws of war manual:

Majorian posted:

War is a team sport; my team, right or wrong.

nice to have rules that allow you to always be right and enemy to always be wrong thanks to ~nuance~

# ? Dec 5, 2022 10:53

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

war crimes are a dumb concept. you only get in trouble for war crimes if you lose the war

# ? Dec 5, 2022 10:54

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

Truga posted:

nice to have rules that allow you to always be right and enemy to always be wrong thanks to ~nuance~

Well yeah! I mean even when we mess up we had the ~right reasons!~ I think there�s a How R U post to that effect somewhere�

# ? Dec 5, 2022 10:55

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

hmmm yes it is only honorable to do mass killing if you follow these gentlemanly rules about it

# ? Dec 5, 2022 10:55

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Pistol_Pete posted:

Remember folks, if you strike, you're striking for Putin.

If you don't literally give up your unborn child for its stem cells to be harvested by Gothrak The Destroyer and made into an exquisite cracker patte to be consumed during a hollywood snuff party you're nothing but a Putin stooge.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 10:58

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

Rutibex posted:

hmmm yes it is only honorable to do mass killing if you follow these gentlemanly rules about it

I�m not sure how else we�re supposed to feel like we acted nobly and honorably in war if we can�t charge our enemies with doing the opposite. I�m starting to think that you just don�t get why it is dolce et decorum pro patria mori! :argh:

# ? Dec 5, 2022 11:00

CODChimera: Jan 29, 2009

attacking a country should be a war crime

# ? Dec 5, 2022 11:04

January 6 Survivor: Jan 6, 2022; The
Nelson Mandela
of clapping
dusty old cheeks

( o(

gradenko_2000 posted:

Fact check: Is there any truth to Russia's 'Ukrainian Nazis' propaganda?

checkmate you loving tankies

Mad respect for the journo that had to find at least 3 examples of Nazi Ukrainians that could be deniable. Imagine the thousands of hours spent looking at politicians surrounded by military guys adorned in all kind of SS emblems, vehicles flying the Hakenkreuz proudly as they ride into battle or at all the footage of interviewees explaining in the simplest terms that they want Ukraine to be the fortress of white christian europe against the asiatic hordes. And all that for absolute poo poo pay.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 12:08

KirbyKhan: Mar 20, 2009; Soiled Meat

Someone think of the Banksy Street Art!

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2022/dec/03/ukraine-detains-eight-people-over-theft-of-banksy-mural-in-kyiv posted:

Ukraine authorities detain eight people over theft of Banksy mural outside Kyiv

Stencil image, which shows figure in nightgown and gas mask holding a fire extinguisher, was removed in Hostomel on Friday

Eight people have been detained over the theft of a mural painted by the elusive British street artist Banksy from a wall on the outskirts of Kyiv, Ukrainian authorities said.

The stencil image of a person in a nightgown and gas mask holding a fire extinguisher, next to the charred remains of a window in the town of Hostomel, went missing on Friday, they said.

“A group of people tried to steal a Banksy mural. They cut out the work from the wall of a house destroyed by the Russians,” the Kyiv governor, Oleksiy Kuleba, said in a post on Telegram.

He attached the image of a hole in the wall where the image had stood.

“Several people were detained on the spot,” he said. “The image is in good condition and in the hands of the authorities.”

Other works in the area thought also to be the work of Banksy are under police protection, he said.

The Kyiv police chief, Andriy Nebytov, said eight people had been identified as possibly involved, and a preliminary inquiry had been opened into the matter.

“All were aged between 27 and 60 years old. They are residents of Kyiv and Cherkasy,” about 200km (125 miles) south-east of the capital, he said.

A Banksy stencil image of a gymnast performing a handstand on the wall of a wrecked building in Borodianka. Photograph: Andrew Kravchenko/AP
Last month, Banksy posted an image of the stencil of a gymnast performing a handstand on the wall of a wrecked building in Borodianka, north-west of the capital.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 14:11

January 6 Survivor: Jan 6, 2022; The
Nelson Mandela
of clapping
dusty old cheeks

( o(

KirbyKhan posted:

Someone think of the Banksy Street Art!

that is the coolest interaction with his art banksy will ever get

# ? Dec 5, 2022 14:55

Futanari Damacy: Oct 30, 2021; by sebmojo

Rutibex posted:

war crimes are a dumb concept. you only get in trouble for war crimes if you lose the war

What.

Holy gently caress.

What the poo poo.

(Look at my genuine outrage at this statement! :jerkbag:

)

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:02

Cromulent_Chill: Apr 6, 2009

CODChimera posted:

attacking a country should be a war crime

If you lose then it was, if you win the other guys did the war crimes.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:12

Pretzel Rod Serling: Aug 6, 2008

KirbyKhan posted:

Someone think of the Banksy Street Art!

I�m glad the cops are doing important work like protecting Banksys despite the ongoing genocide against The Ukraine

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:13

Vomik: Jul 29, 2003; This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan

you don�t have to win to get away with war crimes

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:15

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Majorian posted:

He's holding a loving baguette in that photo. LMFAO

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:15

Vomik: Jul 29, 2003; This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan

Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:

I�m glad the cops are doing important work like protecting Banksys despite the ongoing genocide against The Ukraine

under control of the authorities means it�s being auctioned for some local pols getaway fund

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:17

Futanari Damacy: Oct 30, 2021; by sebmojo

The Banksy is going to end up on that official list of poo poo for auction along with all the power plants and hospitals.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:20

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Danann posted:

I can read your post OP and you weren't just talking about France and Germany.

In terms of oil trade, Russian oil has already shifted from Europe:

_{(from t.me/Slavyangrad/20401, via tgsa)}

And furthermore trade with China is going well:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/yuans-new-dollar-russia-rides-redback-2022-11-28/

TL;DR Russia has economic relationships that allows it to survive the lack of Western trade while Europe has inflicted upon itself a structural energy disadvantage.

fondly remembering how one of our brilliant plans to stop the russian invasion of ukraine was to ask china to do it for us

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:21

Lord of Pie: Mar 2, 2007

KirbyKhan posted:

Someone think of the Banksy Street Art!

rare case of the government going after the HoA

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:22

Futanari Damacy: Oct 30, 2021; by sebmojo

Danann posted:

I can read your post OP and you weren't just talking about France and Germany.

In terms of oil trade, Russian oil has already shifted from Europe:

_{(from t.me/Slavyangrad/20401, via tgsa)}

And furthermore trade with China is going well:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/yuans-new-dollar-russia-rides-redback-2022-11-28/

TL;DR Russia has economic relationships that allows it to survive the lack of Western trade while Europe has inflicted upon itself a structural energy disadvantage.

It's very funny that the price cap's success is predicated on there being no other market for Russia to sell the oil. Unfortunate that the tacit threat of lack of shipping insurance means the west is going to openly target tankers at sea causing ecological catastrophe. The intentional destruction of Nordstream was desperate, but we can see it was just the beginning.

Hopefully with Europe no longer being an unnecessary drain on Russia's oil, poorer countries will have access to fairly priced energy and be able to develop as opposed to that oil unnecessarily heating Europe's homes.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:29

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

https://twitter.com/Parrots38/status/1599488198585249792?t=zk9r5AcdYc0DN_yoEbCdVA&s=19

US government botnet going nuts in the comments

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:35

redneck nazgul: Apr 25, 2013

Throatwarbler posted:

https://twitter.com/Parrots38/status/1599488198585249792?t=zk9r5AcdYc0DN_yoEbCdVA&s=19

US government botnet going nuts in the comments

holy lmao

# ? Dec 5, 2022 16:01

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

Throatwarbler posted:

https://twitter.com/Parrots38/status/1599488198585249792?t=zk9r5AcdYc0DN_yoEbCdVA&s=19

US government botnet going nuts in the comments

Lmao that the regime change api is the first thing that breaks.

# ? Dec 5, 2022 16:08

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 25, 2024 22:47

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

I look through the bot replies, none of them are in English. What language do they use?

Some of the bots have Chinese character handles but they replied in something else, spanish?

# ? Dec 5, 2022 16:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

«‹›3683 »