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Yeah, because of that, I’d probably pay a small premium for a rigid fork over most suspension options.
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Dec 2, 2022 14:10
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kimbo305 posted:Yeah, because of that, I’d probably pay a small premium for a rigid fork over most suspension options.
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Dec 2, 2022 14:16
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Thirding squishy forks are probably not worth it. I have one on my fast commuter and while it's nice to have at high speed it's by no means necessary at reasonable speeds even if the road is rough. While it lets me ride like a hooligan and mess up without consequences at times it comes with significant drawbacks. Lots of maintenance on it, expensive consumables and nasty fluid that ends up everywhere. Big wheels and big tires is all you need for commuting IMO.
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Dec 2, 2022 14:32
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It's a bit apples to oranges but I have a rigid Karate Monkey 29er that I outfitted with smooth tires for commuting, I recently bought a HSD P9 (regular seatpost but front suspension) and despite the massive tire size difference the HSD is a much softer ride overall. I am sure frame material, rider position and whatnot factor in but that's my only experience with jumping down in tire size. Main complaint is the 20 inch wheels don't track as well as the 29. Now I am worried about life expectancy of my fork... Thanks.
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Dec 3, 2022 01:06
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What pressures were you running in each, and what tires sizes?
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Dec 3, 2022 15:49
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I did a test ride of the Gazelle C380. Really nice, little bumpier than the R&M Nevo with less in terms of suspension and thinner, higher-pressure tires (which I like), but it felt zippier and less sluggish despite going the same speeds. Shifting on the enviolo felt very intuitive even more so than the electric shifting with a rholoff hub on some bike models I tried. The only detractor is that both it and the + model only have 500wh batteries instead of the 625 wh you can get with R&M bikes. However, the C380+ is half what the Nevo 4 would cost me next year so it's the serious contender for what I want.
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Dec 4, 2022 03:49
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That gazelle looks p good, and the nova doesn't sounds like it's twice the bike.
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Dec 5, 2022 12:58
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evil_bunnY posted:That gazelle looks p good, and the nova doesn't sounds like it's twice the bike. I managed to try the Gazelle C380 plus and really enjoyed it, definitely worth the few hundred bucks over the regular C380 model. The extra speed was noticeable and what was the real big selling point: it was light as hell. Very easy to pick up and move around as opposed to most e-bikes I've come in contact with. Drawback #1: only comes with a 500wh battery. This has me a bit concerned because my ultimate goal is to see if I can make it to say from Kirkland, WA to the end of the burke gilman trail and back, thus nearly eliminating the use of my car when I want to crossover from the eastside into seattle for a wide variety of typical trips I make. It could be done on 500wh but only with low pedal assist. On the flipside the Nevo 4 will likely be outfitted with the bosch smart system which (although not confirmed for this model) could have a new 750wh battery which will greatly extend the range of even the current model. Drawback #2: the c380+ is already almost 2 years old and may get upgraded next year so maybe it would be worth it to wait and see. Pros: Bosch CX Gen 4 motor High Speed, gates carbon belt drive, enviolo hub, good front suspension, narrow tires (not a fan of fat tires, they feel too mushy and sluggish), very light weight frame compared to all other ebikes I've tested except the Trek Allant 9.9s+ Major pro: half the cost of an R&M bike with the same / similar configuration. Things I've determined about some of the recent bikes I've test ridden: 1. Mid-drives are very rewarding and really do have a more 'natural' bike feel although the crank does feel like it has more resistance, and you'll feel it in your calves. 2. Not having a throttle like I do on my current ebike takes some getting used to, especially if you're stopped at the near crest of a steep hill. That's when a throttle is really helpful. 3. I'm on the fence on whether or not I like the experience of the enviolo hub vs a traditional derailleur and cassette. On one hand the enviolo makes it easier to simple change gears at a dead stop and it's intuitive, but I do miss the instant shifting WHILE pedaling that a traditional derailleur and casette gives you. For the belt+enviolo, you have to let off the pedals in order to shift the gearing. G-III fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Dec 5, 2022 |
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Dec 5, 2022 15:41
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G-III posted:I managed to try the Gazelle C380 plus and really enjoyed it, definitely worth the few hundred bucks over the regular C380 model. The extra speed was noticeable and what was the real big selling point: it was light as hell. Very easy to pick up and move around as opposed to most e-bikes I've come in contact with. My wife commutes daily on a Gazelle T10+ Ultimate and is very happy with it. Doesn't have the belt and enviolo, but I think it's fairly similar otherwise. She rides about 16 miles round trip, city riding with some hills. She uses fairly high assist I believe. At the end of a day she still has some juice left. I want to guess a quarter battery at least, but honestly I don't look too close.
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Dec 5, 2022 16:43
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Given the weather I am not likely to be using my e-bike until March-ish, at least to commute, and now I am realizing I'm not sure how to store it or keep it from harm. The most I did was tighten a brake cable once and generally lubricate the chain every now and again.  What should I be trying to keep up with? There are two bike shops I can reach easily, but one of them was kind of snitty about not being willing to look at anything unless I take the battery off the frame. (The other shop assembled the bike for me, so, they're probably good, but further away)
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Dec 5, 2022 18:09
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G-III posted:For the belt+enviolo, you have to let off the pedals in order to shift the gearing. Interesting. That wasn't my experience with the Urban Arrow and R&M Load 60 with enviolo. You could be going pretty hard with assist and still shift without letting up. Completely different to my experience with other IGHs. That was a selling point to me of enviolo, but I guess it's either sensitive to tuning or varies by model? Nessus posted:Given the weather I am not likely to be using my e-bike until March-ish, at least to commute, and now I am realizing I'm not sure how to store it or keep it from harm. charging: 32F - 104F storage: 50F (!) - 104F. So pretty much indoors use: 23F - 104F I knew that batteries don't like the cold weather, but I hadn't really known that you don't really want to store them out overnight below 50F. I assume any Li-Ion cell based batteries would have similar chemical limitations. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Dec 5, 2022 |
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Dec 5, 2022 21:24
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I don't know if it holds true for the e-bike batteries but our plugin hybrid specifically stated to not store the car with the battery fully charged. I guess Li-lon batteries are at their least stable state when fully charged and should not be kept there for long. I charge my battery inside since my garage is not heated/cooled. I rode in today for the first time with some icy spots on the roads and almost ate it so now I am thinking I may need winter tires.  kimbo305 posted:What pressures were you running in each, and what tires sizes? Good point, 29x2.0 @45 psi and the Tern is 20x2.15 @35-40 psi.
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Dec 5, 2022 21:48
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kimbo305 posted:
I'm kind of curious what would happen with battery temps if the start inside at 70F, you go outside in like 10F weather, ride to work for 30 minutes, is there any chance they'd ever get below that 23F threshold? I kind of doubt it.
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Dec 5, 2022 22:23
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kimbo305 posted:Interesting. That wasn't my experience with the Urban Arrow and R&M Load 60 with enviolo. Hm, I should probably move my batteries out of my unheated garage.
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Dec 5, 2022 22:45
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My fiance and I just got Aventon Pace 500s last month and love them. I live in a very bike friendly city so it's largely replaced my car. There's was some discussion of car racks a few pages back, are there any specific recommendations for something that can handle a pair of 60lb bikes? Would it be safe to use a 4-bike rack as long as the rack's total capacity exceeds the bikes' weight?
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Dec 5, 2022 23:13
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charging lithium ion batteries below freezing temps is Bad, i always bring them indoors even when possible making quick stops. if i can't bring them in while making a stop, i at least avoid regenerative braking until they get warmed back up a bit by use. the storage temps of 50+ may just be the most optimal storage for immediate use, as they are less effective discharging at lower temps, but i doubt they would be harmed by storage in the 40s. Nessus posted:Given the weather I am not likely to be using my e-bike until March-ish, at least to commute, and now I am realizing I'm not sure how to store it or keep it from harm. The most I did was tighten a brake cable once and generally lubricate the chain every now and again. for general bike storage, i'd get it cleaned off and dry and then lubricated, chain lube on the chain and then wipe it dry with a clean rag. for the derailleurs and other moving parts (rim brakes, levers, etc), you can use a little spritz of your lubricating/corrosion preventing spray of choice (i like Motorex Intact MX 50, but it's just fancy WD40), wiping away the excess. don't get it on any on braking pads or tracks, though! for the battery, lithium ion cells are apparently happiest at a voltage of 3.85v or thereabouts, so for a 48v nominal battery (13x series) about 50.0v would be ideal, for a 36v nominal battery 38.5v. you can read the voltage with a multimeter at the terminals with the battery switched on, depending on design. they will lose a couple percent of charge per month (or more, depending on the battery management system) so it can't hurt to keep an eye on it and check the voltage now and then. Barry posted:I'm kind of curious what would happen with battery temps if the start inside at 70F, you go outside in like 10F weather, ride to work for 30 minutes, is there any chance they'd ever get below that 23F threshold? I kind of doubt it. discharge keeps the temps of the battery up so i doubt they would dip that low, but some people do put little neoprene insulator sleeves on their batteries to help with that.
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Dec 6, 2022 00:05
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Is there anyway to get access to the SmartFit sizing program as just a regular person? I’m looking at bikes and am having trouble finding many which come in my size, but do have my measurements for that program. I’m in the US, and it seems like a bunch of e-bike companies don’t have the right size, and any given in person store usually has such a small selection it’s not super helpful. It would be nice if there was a way to search across a bunch of sites at once. Also related to this, is it ever the case that you can get EU only models sent over to the US? A lot of these companies seem to have some frame sizes as EU only since they are Dutch, which if they were available would be ideal.
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Dec 11, 2022 00:42
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kimbo305 posted:Interesting. That wasn't my experience with the Urban Arrow and R&M Load 60 with enviolo. Maybe you had a different/newer model
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Dec 11, 2022 19:04
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Just ordered a Trek Allant 8+ S in silver. Long-posting to talk about it, since this is the thread for both people riding and people looking to ride e-bikes. I ride mainly for fun around the river paths here in Waco, but also will ride all day from place-to-place while hanging out in town on weekends. Also looked at: Gazelle C380+, Priority Current, Evelo (MOST ADVANCED E-BIKE IN HISTORY) Omega and Atlas, Specialized Turbo Vado, Giant Fastroad E+ - Really was trying to find a belt+Enviolo that I liked but none of them had the complete package. I also took out any bike that didn't have a standard crossbar setup. I like the look better and better access for stuff mounting and hanging from hooks or a hitch-hanger car thingy. After test-riding the medium version and spending about an hour going over it and chatting with my sales guy, I was blown away by the Bosch power and the torque sensor feel and the overall fit and finish of the bike. It's heavy, but not heavier than my current Rize MD on the 650B platform, which for supposedly having 40-50% more torque, just doesn't do it the same way. I went with the 8+ instead of the 7+ for some tangible but also intangible reasons. It's not much more expensive for so many real upgrades. Also liking the solid front forks, which seem to be a part that all big manufacturers want to cheap out on for front-shock models. Better off without it and trusting the nice tires do the work instead of having a noisy, lovely fork. I don't think there's been enough shock on the Rize forks to do more than bounce them around, anyway. Though reading reviews on the 7+ S fork, they seem to be addressing that. Also bigger battery on the 8, which is nice since I'm heavy and tend to drain the battery on the MD fairly quickly. Oh, the 8 is a 10-speed as well, though I don't know the ratios so it may just be closer spacing, but it might also be what lets you low-cadence at 28mph, which isn't possible on my 7 speed MD, and was disappointing to me when I started riding it in traffic around town. Just for reference, I hit 25 in a middle gear with a fairly low cadence in the parking lot while demoing the 8 before I had to turn around. Vs the others in my list: I'm tired of seeing the cheapest OEM options in "mid-premium" bikes, and every mechanical piece on the 8s is just a better part. Against the other Trek models, like the Verve and the FX: Brakes felt better, shifting was better, rattle and noise was quieter, everything. Deore vs Alivio or the other one, lighting package was better, the gunmetal silver looks great online vs the 7's colors especially, and the Rails and stuff in that color looked awesome as well. For a minute I was considering the Powerfly Equipped, as a mainly city but also trail bike (someday) but I got over that real quick. Of course, there's a billion Trek stores now so post-sales support I'm expecting to be very good. The manager offered to ride out to Austin to pick up the large for me - a 4 hour round trip- but I wanted the silver instead of the grey/green. Just offering to do that blew me away, really good to see from a new location. All the folks there seemed really happy to be working for the company, which makes me feel good as well. But I still can't help but feel this isn't the end-game e-bike for me. I have a Pinion "regular" bike with a gates belt and I love the simplicity and the look. Pinion on an e-bike limits you to hub-drive which isn't the end of the world, but the new 85nm Bosch Performance Speed is just so good. Maybe in the next few years there will be a killer package that changes the game for mass-market. The Enviolo Trekking model can handle the torque from what I understand, think even Trek offers that combo in EU, according to my searching. The Priority Current w/ Enviolo Trekking was one of my choices for this purchase, and they seem like really responsive and great people, but a couple power-related bad stories from heavier riders (like myself) lead me to be apprehensive for a mail order of that price. Coming from the Rize - which to be fair is built like a tank EXCEPT for the literal parts bin freehub and mostly no-name (or total bottom-end) parts I'm excited to actually have upgrade paths with this bike. Until I save up enough and tech advances enough that I can order that seamless stealth 100% custom minimalist titanium 70 mile range e-bike from a one-man shop in Colorado or something, this is I think the best package readily available and ubiquitous enough that I can expect to keep it for a long time. I guess I always have the option to switch to the Enviolo with a chain, but the belt is just so smooth... Only serious "why did they do this" items are the insistence on the kind of cheesy smartphone integration (which nerfs the no-phone computer that's there when you are using it) and the weird rack that basically can only accommodate a soft bag and paniers. Looks like they did it that way to more tightly integrate the rack and fender to make it a solid piece. These aren't deal-breakers for me, since I really like my REI soft bag that was inexpensive and easy to work with, and I can always bungie my soft-cooler for a picnic or tailgating or whatever. I also plan on riding 90% with no phone slotted there, and I do like the minimalist controls and kind of invisible screen (in a good way?) when you aren't using the phone. The bracket/holder thing seems a little under-engineered, and I may just swap it with their Nyon computer down the line if that's even possible. The kickstand also seems a bit underwhelming, but honestly little things like that are fun to customize. All the Bontrager parts appear to be good quality and and also easily upgradable. The seat was ok, another easily changeable item. Can't wait to get this bike and put a few hundred miles on it for a real review! The platform and packaging are so nice. Room for the range extender if I get a wild hair in my rear end and want to go a much longer distance. None of the specialized or Giant or other bikes I looked at hit nearly every single "want" like this one.
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Dec 17, 2022 07:08
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Is that two-piece thing a hall effect sensor? Is that what other ebikes use I thought they had some kinda torque sensing setup. Guessing the battery location is meant to keep the cables from getting flexed when the fork turns.
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Dec 28, 2022 20:40
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If its anything like the older BBS02 I have, its just an encoder that sense pedaling yes/no. If yes it applies power until it reaches some preset motor RPM. I found this to be terrifying and dangerous to ride and disabled it immediately in favor of throttle+not riding like a jackass. Seems pretty much like the kits that have been on the market for a decade, but without having to deal with shady internet vendors and less troubleshooting? I'm always suspicious of e-bike startups cause it seems like most of them are just white labeling some anonymous chinese manufacturer's stuff.
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Dec 28, 2022 21:00
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100 watt hours? I'm assuming the motor wants at least 24v, so that sounds like it might get you around the block if you stay at pedal assist one and have the wind at your back.
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Dec 28, 2022 21:44
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yeah I was being polite when I said I wasn't impressed with Swytch but I do really like the idea of doing some kind of easily reversible conversion setup, maybe with two different front wheels, one with and one without a hub motor. something that would ideally knock off a good 20 bpm off my heartrate when climbing at a low/moderate speed with easy gearing
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Dec 28, 2022 21:51
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> it’s possible to get a decent one for less than $1,000 Nothing comes to mind for me. Their buried FAQs confirm that it relies on a QR dropout to deal with countering the torque of the motor. So it’s universal as long as you have a 100mm QR fork. While that does limit the range of disc bikes that would support, probably doesn’t affect their target market much. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Dec 28, 2022 |
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Dec 28, 2022 22:24
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webcams for christ posted:yeah I was being polite when I said I wasn't impressed with Swytch I think you're on the right track with having two front wheels to switch between. Especially if you have a weaker motor and a good front fork setup that doesn't require a crazy torque arm setup to keep the motor from spinning in the drops when you have it set up as an ebike. Still might have to find some ways to make it easy to connect and disconnect the electrical system. Those tray style batteries that mount to a downtube would probably be a better bet than the Swytch battery. Just slide it off and leave it at home if you're in bike mode. Then when you're in ebike mode, you can actually get some range and power.
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Dec 28, 2022 22:29
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I'd definitely put the battery in a velcro mounted frame bag if I can figuring out easily removable, but secure wiring and cockpit controls is definitely the trickiest part
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Dec 28, 2022 22:42
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oXDemosthenesXo posted:If its anything like the older BBS02 I have, its just an encoder that sense pedaling yes/no. If yes it applies power until it reaches some preset motor RPM. I found this to be terrifying and dangerous to ride and disabled it immediately in favor of throttle+not riding like a jackass. Having ridden a bike with a Swytch a few times, it’s definitely not terrifying at all. The power it’s giving you just isn’t that much (which also makes it not a huge help in eg very steep hills). But yeah, it is definitely not super natural feeling to ride - I didn’t realize how much better other e-bikes were at making the assist feel natural until I tried test driving some other ones.
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Dec 29, 2022 01:46
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Trek Allant 8+ S trip report: One: The Trek store I bought from is brand new, and their flash tool was out of date, so they had to wait an extra day to get their new credential to flash the bike, which, according to them, every Allant 8+ from the factory had the wrong OS on the Bosch setup. Two: The lovely smartphone hub thing flew apart on the first ride, which was expected to be honest. It really really sucks on a $5000 bike to have it immediately break but yeah. It's the same problem with the Urban Arrow cargo bikes and other contractually obligated bikes that use this thing. It's garbage. Three: The handlebars are too narrow and the controls are too cramped, and I started getting tingling hands and arms within about 5 miles. Four: Torque sensor vs. cadence sensor: on the hill that about gives me a stroke every time I attempt it naturally it's for sure more effort to just "coast" up the hill with minimal input, and if you are in a hilly area and aren't fit already it's for sure more work... But: I put on some Soma touring handlebars that I had already bought, and swapped the seat for one I was already comfortable with, and I gotta say, the comfort and quality of this bike is next level. It's so easy to just cruise. With the setup I have now 28 mph is easily attainable on flats and on a reasonable grade on turbo, and everything about it feels natural and "right." I felt like a kid again, just riding all day with no problems, and stepping up to turbo even on the big hill was comfortable and quick enough. It's the promise of a quality ebike: I'm pushing through the hard spots enough to get exercise without killing myself, and having a great time just riding around. More so than the cadence sensor equipped Rize bike. Yeah I could do with more torque on the hill but it's just SO GOOD riding around on Eco with the occasional boost up to turbo. The app is good once you get used to it, and does what it's supposed to. For just hopping on and riding you don't really need it, and once I got my phone in a different mount I appreciated the features it has. The clutch on the derailleur makes a true difference on both up and down shifting, and it's worth the extra money to get better bike components. Brakes are great, everything about it has so much more solid feel and competency that it's a shame you have to pay this much for quality bike components and the ability to even fit them. Cranking the assist to turbo and clicking into a high gear feels pretty godly, and it doesn't feel like I'm just a passenger, but I'm pushing myself faster and getting out of it what I put in. Yesterday and today I put in about 20 mi at various levels of assist and according to the computer I still have 60% battery and 50 mi at eco, maybe 25 or so at turbo. Such a good platform, and with a couple customizations to fit my personal needs it's right now well worth it. If I lived 10 miles from work I'd have absolutely no problem riding this bike every day for commuting and pleasure. Having said all that, the smartphone holder being on this bike is criminal, and Bosch/Trek should make amends to owners for such a garbage piece of kit on a supposedly high end system. I don't even want a replacement it's that bad. The charge cable is too short to use with my phone holder, and the orientation of the thing prevents me from charging while riding, but I'll get an extender and it won't be a problem. But I wouldn't give it up even then. The whole thing is just too good as a package with that caveat. The next possible upgrade for the level of quality that I have now is about double the cost. So: Would recommend. Let's go, etc. edit: I just spent a week in the LA area (mostly Pasadena and Alhambra) and kept noting how bikable and cool it would be to live in an area that was so accessible by bike, e- or otherwise. I'm totally jealous of all the Euro Goons who have bike-accessible towns as a default! strangeless fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Dec 31, 2022 |
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Dec 31, 2022 06:14
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> it's worth the extra money to get better bike components. Keep spreading that advocacy.
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Dec 31, 2022 07:17
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strangeless posted:Trek Allant 8+ S trip report:  What holder did you swap in? The one that came in my bike hasn't fallen apart like you described, but it doesn't fit my pretty normal-sized Pixel 6, so I'd be curious about an upgrade.
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Dec 31, 2022 10:41
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I have one as well and one screw fell out of the phone mount on day 2 so it’s too weak to hold my phone now and you have to replace the entire unit because they don’t provide that screw as a part. Also one of the bolts holding on the kick stand sheared off so I can’t put another on. That one is partly on me and my son because I have a ride along system and he would sit on his bike while mine was on the stand putting a ton of pressure on it. Other than that the bike is great.
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Dec 31, 2022 18:04
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Cugel the Clever posted:Hey fellow Allant owner! I have one of these Delta ones, which is OK for a mini 12. Taking the holder off the computer was easy enough and looks better. Thinking about Swapping in a Nyon controller unit instead, but I'm good for now I think.
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Dec 31, 2022 18:24
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Bosch smart displays are the loving worst. The small Purion is all one needs, and Bosch'es obsession with appstoring everything is so loving annoying. I don't want another $200 thing on my handlebars, dudes.
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Jan 1, 2023 02:14
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I'm noticing some squeaking when I backpedal on my Bosch mid-drive. Anyone else run into that? The bike's been in the rain a few times, but nothing I would expect a bike wouldn't be designed to handle.
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Jan 3, 2023 06:46
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kimbo305 posted:I'm noticing some squeaking when I backpedal on my Bosch mid-drive. Anyone else run into that?
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Jan 5, 2023 10:02
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I sold a motorcycle last year and am looking at e-bike options for my wife and I. Want to be able to ride around lovely dirty roads, eventually also with kids once they have and can ride bikes. I have $4,000 so I am trying to keep stuff in the <$2000 a pop range, which I know is not high end, but I've seen a lot of stuff around here. I'm more concerned with finding something I can source and have maintained locally (Burlington or Middlebury VT) than getting "the absolute best thing I could" if that means "you have to send it back to CA for any service". We live up nasty dirt roads, and I'd prefer something that can go faster, than not. I am lazy and don't like to pedal much, my wife does like to pedal. Make/model suggestions appreciated!! e: something not capped to 20mph is more interesting than something that is. Long term I probably also want a Surron dirtbike but that is likely not in the cards this year. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 14:06
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Cabbages and Kings posted:I sold a motorcycle last year and am looking at e-bike options for my wife and I. Want to be able to ride around lovely dirty roads, eventually also with kids once they have and can ride bikes. I have a Lectric XP 2.0 that I use for commuting, but it seems like it's pretty popular for dirt biking as well. It's shipped from AZ but any bike shop should be able to maintain it (mine does). Price is just above $1000 so it's not as fancy as more expensive bikes, but it works well. It's class 3, so top speed on throttle is 20 mph, with pedal assist it's 28. At that speed you're basically just going through pedal motions to keep the motor on.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:03
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Cabbages and Kings posted:I sold a motorcycle last year and am looking at e-bike options for my wife and I. Want to be able to ride around lovely dirty roads, eventually also with kids once they have and can ride bikes.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:55
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HisMajestyBOB posted:I have a Lectric XP 2.0 that I use for commuting, but it seems like it's pretty popular for dirt biking as well. It's shipped from AZ but any bike shop should be able to maintain it (mine does). Price is just above $1000 so it's not as fancy as more expensive bikes, but it works well. That's real attractive on price for sure; I would like something that gets around the class 3 limits and maybe can go 28-30 unassisted but that's not a hard requirement by any means.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:59
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