|
Who's your 2022 MVP? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Shohei Ohtani |
|
50 | 59.52% |
| Aaron Judge |
|
19 | 22.62% |
| Hey, the national league has an MVP too you know! |
|
15 | 17.86% |
| Total: | 84 votes | ||
|
Carlosologist posted:https://twitter.com/samlindauer/status/1599452712885977089?s=46&t=BpAFq-2YcCPhZKxZMyp-Ug Albert Spalding Candy Cummings Jackie Robinson Babe Ruth Branch Rickey (cheating here but he did play) Martin Dihigo Tommy John Ichiro Suzuki Curt Flood Jose Canseco
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 07:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 04:02 |
|
|
mcmagic posted:Who cares at this point. There are a bunch of players who are in who don’t belong and guys who will never get in who do. Why give Schilling any satisfaction? He’s a scumbag. Because subjective ideas about what makes someone good or bad is a deeply stupid reason to keep someone out of an institution that has Ty loving Cobb in it. Put people in because they were good at baseball. If you care about cheating directly related to baseball, make sure you take out all the spitballers and greenie users and then that's fine. If you won't do that, put the modern PED users in too. Stop injecting criteria that aren't "was good at baseball" into HoF membership, or, if you're going to insist on it because of the dumb character clause, be loving consistent about it. What we're building right now is a HoF that has giant holes where the history of the game ought to be. Schilling is just the most obvious current example, I do not intend to go on a personal crusade to get him in.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 07:35
|
|
|
Just put Schilling in as soon as he's dead. If you do it while he's alive he'll try to leverage it as another avenue to signal boost his nazi poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 07:59
|
|
|
Timby posted:Hello there, Mr. Sandberg. I’m old enough to remember the rumors that Palmeiro was shipped to Texas for having violated the sanctity of the now former Mrs. Sandberg, so that was probably a fun presentation. If I remember correctly, even Andre Dawson publicly said they traded the wrong first baseman.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 08:17
|
|
|
fast cars loose anus posted:Because subjective ideas about what makes someone good or bad is a deeply stupid reason to keep someone out of an institution that has Ty loving Cobb in it. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 08:47
|
|
|
Question as a baseball neophyte - why does nobody have Cy Young in their list of ten?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 10:55
|
|
|
Schilling shouldn’t get into the Hall while he’s alive because he’s a piece of poo poo. He also shouldn’t get into the Hall after he’s dead because it’ll continue to make people who secretly like him mad and that’s the funniest thing. I’m perfectly fine with Cooperstown ignoring his existence because trying to hold it as some sacred archive of definitive baseball history will always be a fool’s errand.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 11:24
|
|
|
Clarence posted:Question as a baseball neophyte - why does nobody have Cy Young in their list of ten? Not to speak for others, but my guess is that because most people are approaching those lists through the lenses of a) players I like and were on the team I root for, and b) players whose careers started or encapsulate a major pivot within the history of the sport itself. Yeah Ruth was one of if not the best to ever hit, but he also kicked off the live ball era. Flood isn't a HOF player, but his struggles against the owners is what ultimately created the modern concept of free agency. Etc etc. Cy Young was by all accounts and stats a phenomenal pitcher, but it was in an era when pitching was already dominant and the game fundamentally different. A lot of his records were set in such a bygone era that that even the most talented modern pitcher on the planet cannot possibly hope to scratch them. A modern pitcher would need to post 16 consecutive seasons going 32-0, or start 32 games a season for 26 seasons to break some of Cy's records, as an example. That just isn't how the game works these days. It's also that he didn't do anything in particular that majorly pushed the sport forward. Cy's career is incredible, but not comparable to Ruth ushering in the live ball era, Jackie breaking the color barrier, Flood ushering in the concept of modern free agency, etc.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 11:45
|
|
|
If I had to pick ten players, within the context of me trying to convey the history of the sport through those players and how they changed it and completely independent of fan bias, it would probably be something like: Ruth: Ushering in the modern era of baseball, the sport was largely unrecognizable to modern audiences before the Bambino. Gehrig: Another "modern" hitter who changed the game through his prowess. His battle with ALS and the sport's response is also a major pillar of MLB history. Williams: A great player to use as a starting point for talking about the origins of the shift, also the godfather of applying science to the idea of hitting. Robinson: Broke the MLB color barrier and through his success helped the eventual full integration of the league. Also a phenomenal player in their own right. Flood: Essentially laid the groundwork for the modern free agency system via his tenacity in suing MLB. Also a good player. Johnson: Essentially laid the groundwork for the "modern" pitcher a decade plus in advance, throwing high velo up in the zone combined with nasty breaking stuff. Bonds: The greatest hitter in history, steroids or not, fight me. Essentially was the quintessential perfect "modern" hitter who had power and patience, and really hammered home the idea that walks didn't "clog the bases" Sosa/McGwire: I'm cheating by putting two guys into one slot, but the 98' home run chase saved the sport from a premature depth, created a whole new audience of young fans, and really ignited the scrutiny into the steroid era. Ichiro: A fully international player who came over and shattered the idea in MLB that the best players can only be produced domestically or in South America with the help of domestic coaches/scouts. There was legitimately a period where the best baseball player on the planet was a Japanese guy who'd gotten zero help from MLB folks. Trout: A legitimate top 5 player of all time who later fans will look back on as one of the all time greats, under appreciated in his time because he spent his career on a team that was utter dogshit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 12:00
|
|
|
Rube should be on every single list
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 12:54
|
|
|
SilvergunSuperman posted:Rube should be on every single list 
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 14:14
|
|
|
You guys know all that evil Ty Cobb stuff was made up by his charlatan of a biographer As far as actual evil players, as well as one of the ten players everyone should know about because he was instrumental in creating the color division: Cap Anson
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 14:30
|
|
|
If there’s one major difference in the game compared to ~20 years ago it’s got to be the transition to shorter SP outings and more aggressive bullpen usage. Not sure who I’d pick to illustrate that change. First instinct would probably be a lockdown closer but I don’t really think that does the trick
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 14:44
|
|
|
GalacticAcid posted:If there’s one major difference in the game compared to ~20 years ago it’s got to be the transition to shorter SP outings and more aggressive bullpen usage. Not sure who I’d pick to illustrate that change. First instinct would probably be a lockdown closer but I don’t really think that does the trick That shift is very strongly linked to the Royals in my head. The 2014 ones in particular used their bullpen much more in the modern 'hey get to the 6th and we have 3 lockdown guys behind you'.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 15:04
|
|
|
Wade Davis, one of the top 10 most important baseball players of all time
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 15:09
|
|
|
The HOF is above all else a museum, right? Museums exist to teach both the good and bad parts of history. Keep all the old criminals and bigots in, keep the new criminals and bigots out and use their faults and how they were overlooked in the past and less overlooked later to exhibit the cultural change surrounding and within the sport. I don’t personally consider PED or suspected PED usage criminal in that type of context and if the numbers say they should go in then they should. I realize that’s a gross oversimplification and where the line is drawn will vary from person to person, but the Hall has a duty to teach the whole history of the sport IMO.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 15:38
|
|
|
Lots of MAGA deGrom takes out there. The NY fan-base is coalescing around the 'redneck who never really wanted to play in the big city' narrative.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 15:53
|
|
|
It's not like the Hall has completely excised these guys from baseball history. You can go there and see the bloody sock, there's a whole rear end display about Bonds and the home run record chase. They just aren't in the room with all the plaques.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 15:53
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:It's not like the Hall has completely excised these guys from baseball history. You can go there and see the bloody sock, there's a whole rear end display about Bonds and the home run record chase. They just aren't in the room with all the plaques. that's the most important room
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 16:30
|
|
|
fast cars loose anus posted:Because subjective ideas about what makes someone good or bad is a deeply stupid reason to keep someone out of an institution that has Ty loving Cobb in it. Schilling is 100% NOT a bigger hole than Bonds, Arod, Manny and Clemens. Come on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 16:31
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:It's not like the Hall has completely excised these guys from baseball history. You can go there and see the bloody sock, there's a whole rear end display about Bonds and the home run record chase. They just aren't in the room with all the plaques. I will keep saying this until I'm in the ground: The actual hall is by far the least interesting part of the Hall Of Fame anyway.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 16:33
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:Schilling is 100% NOT a bigger hole than Bonds, Arod, Manny and Clemens. Come on. he absolutely is
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 16:37
|
|
|
Yeah I’m gonna say the omission of the guy with the most MVPs ever and the guy with the most Cy Young’s ever are more egregious than the omission of the nazi with the ketchup sock.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 16:37
|
|
|
Chief McHeath posted:The HOF is above all else a museum, right? Museums exist to teach both the good and bad parts of history. Keep all the old criminals and bigots in, keep the new criminals and bigots out and use their faults and how they were overlooked in the past and less overlooked later to exhibit the cultural change surrounding and within the sport. I don’t personally consider PED or suspected PED usage criminal in that type of context and if the numbers say they should go in then they should. Induction into the HoF is supposed to honour the person which means it isn't simply a museum. It's bound up with various ideas about what baseball is supposed to be about, and what virtues baseball players are supposed to display. I think the cases for keeping out Bonds and Clemens are still naff, but I think the background ideas are at least (potentially) coherent. (This is also putting aside some of the trickier issues that museums face even when they're presenting "mere" history.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 16:42
|
|
|
bawfuls posted:Yeah I’m gonna say the omission of the guy with the most MVPs ever and the guy with the most Cy Young’s ever are more egregious than the omission of the nazi with the ketchup sock. don't forget relocating a bunch of people to Rhode Island for his game company and then declaring bankruptcy shortly after leaving them (and the state) high and dry
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 16:45
|
|
|
I'm bored where are the deals
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 16:46
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:Schilling is 100% NOT a bigger hole than Bonds, Arod, Manny and Clemens. Come on. he is a bigger rear end hole
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 16:48
|
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:he absolutely is You are literally insane. Bonds is the best hitter of all time not named Babe Ruth. Arod, Manny and Clemens were all MUCH better players at their positions than Schilling.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 16:59
|
|
|
lol they thought you meant a-hole
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:02
|
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:don't forget relocating a bunch of people to Rhode Island for his game company and then declaring bankruptcy shortly after leaving them (and the state) high and dry
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:04
|
|
|
Intruder posted:lol they thought you meant a-hole lol OK but even then that is debatable.... Bonds did a little light domestic violence, right?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:05
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:You are literally insane. Bonds is the best hitter of all time not named Babe Ruth. Arod, Manny and Clemens were all MUCH better players at their positions than Schilling. what does this have to do with being a racist rear end in a top hat bawfuls posted:mcmagic's post is phrased a bit awkwardly but he wasn't saying Bonds/Clemens are the biggest assholes, rather that they're the more ridiculous omissions from the HoF. It makes sense in context of the post he quoted. ok this is a given so I suppose it didn't occur to me that it needed to be said mcmagic posted:lol OK but even then that is debatable.... Bonds did a little light domestic violence, right? Schilling's garbage is way worse than DV (DV is still very bad) imo
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:08
|
|
|
and Clemens did a little light grooming
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:08
|
|
|
Poque posted:I'm bored where are the deals what you don't like this entertaining hall of fame chat???
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:12
|
|
|
we already had one of the top three free agents sign and no one cared because it was with the Rangers  e: well I guess top 3 is subjective and this is a very strong FA class so some might not consider him top 3 top 3 pitchers though for sure
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:12
|
|
|
These men have simply not displayed the hinkaku necessary to become a yakyuuzuna
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:12
|
|
|
This is going to be like last season where most people are waiting for the big domino to fall that sets the market for everyone else outside when someone signs because they got an insane deal for them
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:15
|
|
|
Free agency news - Rodon to PIT. Judge to PIT. Trade news - Lance Lynn to PIT, Sean Murphy to PIT. Not much else to report, slow day otherwise
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:19
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:lol OK but even then that is debatable.... Bonds did a little light domestic violence, right? In all that time it is possible, maybe unlikely but still possible, Bonds has cleaned his act up. I can't remember the last time I heard anything about him besides that he rides his bicycle a lot. Schilling we know for sure is still a giant shitbag, and he's done nothing but double and triple down on it every chance he gets.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 04:02 |
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:ok this is a given so I suppose it didn't occur to me that it needed to be said fast cars loose anus posted:What we're building right now is a HoF that has giant holes where the history of the game ought to be. Schilling is just the most obvious current example, I do not intend to go on a personal crusade to get him in.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2022 17:20
|
|