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Cugel the Clever posted:Seems like a problem best suited to a high-level, professional investigative agency endowed with the legitimate use of force. They're too busy black bagging protesters and plotting more Fred Hampton incidents. Also lol at the "what anarch solution" whiplashing into "big govt solv problm pls".
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Dec 5, 2022 17:51
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What's the scientologist solution to right wing terrorism????
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Dec 5, 2022 17:54
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BadOptics posted:What's the scientologist solution to right wing terrorism???? “If you can’t beat them, join them”
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Dec 5, 2022 17:59
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Anarchy is the finest idea because it's entirely fiction function relies on the falsehood that people are fair, genuine, and not full of ill intent, and that it won't devolve into warlording factions at the first chance.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:03
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bulletsponge13 posted:Anarchy is the finest idea because it's entirely fiction function relies on the falsehood that people are fair, genuine, and not full of ill intent, and that it won't devolve into warlording factions at the first chance. Yeah p much the same headspace as libertarians except oh wait gently caress you got mine is pretty natural for most folks.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:18
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Steezo posted:They're too busy black bagging protesters and plotting more Fred Hampton incidents. You think a DIY solution to distributed domestic terrorism is more realistic than a governmental solution? Why would you even still be living in society if that was the case? The monopoly on violence is one of the foundational aspects of legitimate governance.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:30
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RealID delayed another 2 years until May 2025. I renewed my driver's license back in 2020 and at this rate I still won't need to get a real ID before it expires. For the record the Real ID law was passed in 2005 in response to 9/11. Twenty loving years lol https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-12-05/real-id-deadline-extended-to-2025-department-of-homeland-security quote:Just five months before the latest Real ID deadline, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security has again extended when travelers will need to have a federally mandated identification card for domestic flights.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:45
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Grip it and rip it posted:You think a DIY solution to distributed domestic terrorism is more realistic than a governmental solution? Why would you even still be living in society if that was the case? The monopoly on violence is one of the foundational aspects of legitimate governance. That monopoly on violence isn't so great at protecting people who don't lick boot and walk in lockstep, oh and since it hasn't been said in here in a while, "shall not be infringed" means the government doesn't have a monopoly on violence.
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Dec 5, 2022 18:48
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Suicide Watch posted:RealID delayed another 2 years until May 2025. Nelson_ha-ha.jpg My girlfriend went through a wringer to get her RealID a couple months ago, turns out a doppelganger had an unpaid speeding ticket halfway across the country so she had to go through the whole process of proving that wasn't her. She's gonna be so annoyed when I tell her.
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Dec 5, 2022 19:08
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Does RealID make nake change easier or harder?
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Dec 5, 2022 19:09
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Let's check in on Rudy's disciplinary hearing for Pennsylvania: https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1599825066736263168?t=bulvUp_rEHjzT67VII8hgQ&s=19 I've looked for my keys before when they were in my hand, but I cannot understand how you mistakenly put on two watches!
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Dec 5, 2022 19:27
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Suicide Watch posted:RealID delayed another 2 years until May 2025. I renewed my driver's license back in 2020 and at this rate I still won't need to get a real ID before it expires. For the record the Real ID law was passed in 2005 in response to 9/11. Twenty loving years lol lol, I only bothered getting my license after I got my passport card. Made it much easier. Of course with the passport card, don't really need a license.
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Dec 5, 2022 19:40
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facialimpediment posted:Let's check in on Rudy's disciplinary hearing for Pennsylvania: Don't watch what you're doing. 
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Dec 5, 2022 19:44
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Cugel the Clever posted:What's the anarchist solution to a handful of activated radicals amongst a broader group of heavily-armed, Christofascist militia attacking broadly distributed critical infrastructure? Seems like a problem best suited to a high-level, professional investigative agency endowed with the legitimate use of force. Considering how that high-level, professional investigative agency endowed with the legitimate use of force provided has provided exactly zero deterrent value to this, the 2013 incident or any other far-right extremist attack, I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. If the perpetrators of this have any adherence to OPSEC there’s a very good chance they’ll get away with it unless they’re bragging to someone who dimes them out. The broader value of armed community self defense is to prevent Proud Boy types from storming a drag show and making it clear they don’t get to operate unchallenged. It’s proven viable at the 2017 Unite the Right incident and more recently with the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club in Texas. No one’s suggesting that they have the capability to do an investigation.
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Dec 5, 2022 20:03
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pantslesswithwolves posted:Considering how that high-level, professional investigative agency endowed with the legitimate use of force provided has provided exactly zero deterrent value to this, the 2013 incident or any other far-right extremist attack, I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. If the perpetrators of this have any adherence to OPSEC there’s a very good chance they’ll get away with it unless they’re bragging to someone who dimes them out. This. Worth noting that "armed community self-defense" does not necessarily have anything to do with "anarchism" or "anarchist solutions" either. Concerned citizens defending their neighbors and critical infrastructure sounds like civic involvement rather than anarchism 
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Dec 5, 2022 20:11
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And if the question is what a hypothetical blac bloc would say the solution was,
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Dec 5, 2022 20:15
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:And if the question is what a hypothetical blac bloc would say the solution was, Two chicks at the same time.
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Dec 5, 2022 20:20
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Cugel the Clever posted:What's the anarchist solution to a handful of activated radicals amongst a broader group of heavily-armed, Christofascist militia attacking broadly distributed critical infrastructure? Seems like a problem best suited to a high-level, professional investigative agency endowed with the legitimate use of force. Rojava was organized along anarchist principles, so maybe what they did? I don't know exactly what that was (and if anyone does they should post), but they showed that anarchism is not incompatible with robust security forces. From what I understand, they held a pretty large, diverse swathe of territory in relative security from more heavily armed fascists, although I have no idea how much of their internal security involved the US umbrella besides freeing people up from front line fighting stuff.
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Dec 5, 2022 20:23
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facialimpediment posted:Let's check in on Rudy's disciplinary hearing for Pennsylvania: Supposedly, the point at which the Trump Organization knew Fred Sr had to go was when he walked into the office one morning wearing three ties. My dad has a bit of dementia going on, so I don't make light of it, but there's a possible explanation.
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Dec 5, 2022 20:24
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pygmy tyrant posted:Rojava was organized along anarchist principles, so maybe what they did? I don't know exactly what that was (and if anyone does they should post), but they showed that anarchism is not incompatible with robust security forces. From what I understand, they held a pretty large, diverse swathe of territory in relative security from more heavily armed fascists, although I have no idea how much of their internal security involved the US umbrella besides freeing people up from front line fighting stuff. I had to look up Rojava. quote:While entertaining some foreign relations, the region is not officially recognized as autonomous by the government of Syria or any state except for the Catalan Parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Administration_of_North_and_East_Syria for the source. The article goes to great lengths to paint a semi utopian picture to only get shat on by the occasional mention that Turkey is stomping these people into the stone age. Security forces can't be that good if you are both fighting an active civil war AND being occupied by another, third party.
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Dec 5, 2022 21:10
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You had to look up that what the Kurds in Syria have been fighting for have names and that the most famous one is Rojava?
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Dec 5, 2022 21:28
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:You had to look up that what the Kurds in Syria have been fighting for has a name and it's Rojava? I didn't know that there was an "autonomous region" in Syria named Rojava, yes. Did I know that the Kurds were in the area, also yes. What surprised me was the name, I may have known the name 5 years ago when they were starting up, but when was the last month "Rojava" cropped up in the CE thread? Some of us don't remember random names that get uttered once then forgotten. Most of us (at least I'm not) are not terminally online absorbing the latest of the the Syrian civil war and how that relates to a supposed anarchist enclave/country/zone.
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Dec 5, 2022 21:33
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I can't remember who it was, but Goon who did POW/MIA recovery, can you shoot me a PM? I have some questions for a friend currently in.
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Dec 5, 2022 21:34
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I'm sorry is the suggestion here that organizing people's defense forces will somehow prevent infrastructure targeting terrorist attacks in a manner that the police and state cannot?
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Dec 5, 2022 21:58
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Grip it and rip it posted:I'm sorry is the suggestion here that organizing people's defense forces will somehow prevent infrastructure targeting terrorist attacks in a manner that the police and state cannot? Anarchist defense forces. Geez...
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Dec 5, 2022 22:02
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ASAPI posted:I had to look up Rojava. That's sad and true but also besides the point. The question was just what anarchist internal security looks like, and they're a real world example of the ideology in action. Whether they ever could have existed without US support is a whole can of worms I'm way too ignorant to get into, but also let's not pretend that Turkey would permit anything resembling an independent Kurdish state to exist within their reach, no matter what form of government it had.
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Dec 5, 2022 22:22
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Grip it and rip it posted:I'm sorry is the suggestion here that organizing people's defense forces will somehow prevent infrastructure targeting terrorist attacks in a manner that the police and state cannot? Either cannot, or will not and yes. This kind of thing takes planning and a community going "huh that's weird, better have the watch out" will do a lot more to deter them than the already fascist police. Hope this helps. I know you've probably never planned, or executed an op before but there's steps to it that are more than just "text jerry to rob the store when the power goes out". There's target selection, site surveillance, things you dont think about that an organized community would notice and stop. You seem to have a lot of faith and confidence in the abilities of the people who let children get murdered for an hour to try and stop the people they agree with.
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Dec 5, 2022 22:33
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BadOptics posted:What's the scientologist solution to right wing terrorism???? WHERE IS JA??????
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Dec 5, 2022 23:34
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Wait, just so I understand where this group's understanding is at, in this forum does anarchism mean ungovernable darwinistic chaos, or non-coercive participatory self governance? I can't wait for the inevitable "they're the same thing hurr" joke.
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Dec 5, 2022 23:37
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Steezo posted:Either cannot, or will not and yes. This kind of thing takes planning and a community going "huh that's weird, better have the watch out" will do a lot more to deter them than the already fascist police. Hope this helps. I know you've probably never planned, or executed an op before but there's steps to it that are more than just "text jerry to rob the store when the power goes out". There's target selection, site surveillance, things you dont think about that an organized community would notice and stop. Please tell us how an organized community entity would have prevented what happened in Moore Co from occurring. e: this is not an argument against community defense / aid. That Works fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Dec 6, 2022 |
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Dec 5, 2022 23:42
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A.o.D. posted:Wait, just so I understand where this group's understanding is at, in this forum does anarchism mean ungovernable darwinistic chaos, or non-coercive participatory self governance? I can't wait for the practical real world way you think someone can implement the second without it turning into the first, especially in the US of all places. It's effectively the same thing whether it ends up going from #2 to #1 through sheer human nature, or through interference and bad faith actors.
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Dec 5, 2022 23:58
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Diarrhea Elemental posted:I can't wait for the practical real world way you think someone can implement the second without it turning into the first, especially in the US of all places. It's effectively the same thing whether it ends up going from #2 to #1 through sheer human nature, or through interference and bad faith actors. There it is.
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Dec 5, 2022 23:59
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A.o.D. posted:There it is. Are you going to actually argue a defensible position versus legitimate problems a first year PoliSci student has already come up with?
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Dec 6, 2022 00:05
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This whole conversation is #2
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Dec 6, 2022 00:22
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Soul Dentist posted:This whole conversation is #2 
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Dec 6, 2022 00:36
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It may not accomplish anything but drat if it doesnt make the people pushing for it smug anyway
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Dec 6, 2022 00:38
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You underestimate how easy that is. Most substations are slightly removed from communities, and are typically behind some visual barriers like hills and trees. Two men, three days, no problem at all. You don't need to get close- just close enough to place optics on. That's if you even want to bother physical recon beyond confirmation of planning details. OSINT is a double edged sword. Infrastructure is rarely censored on Google Earth; that and some perusal of Social Media, and you can get 99% of what you need for a coordinated attack. You don't need to go inside- just inside rifle range, which varies by shooter skill and equipment. This isn't some secret thing- this has been used and documented by organizations around the world, and is used specifically by insurgent groups to undermine support and confidence in local security forces, and to destabilize the community. In Iraq, it was done to give them a freedom of movement and maneuver, besides making us look like assholes.
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Dec 6, 2022 01:12
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There is also a whole lot we don't know - who did this, why they did it, how many of them there were, etc etc etc. It's easy to make assumptions about all of these factors but literally none of them have been determined with any verifiable information. The organization that put on the drag show even said that despite the fact that they had received multiple threats of violence, none of the threats they had received gave any indication that a power grid attack was being planned.
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Dec 6, 2022 01:29
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Diarrhea Elemental posted:Are you going to actually argue a defensible position versus legitimate problems a first year PoliSci student has already come up with? 1. This isn't D&D. 2. I'm not going to defend a position I don't support. All I wanted to know was the basis for discussion in this group.
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Dec 6, 2022 01:51
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Well my grams is stuck in Southern Pines, NC and under a curfew from 8pm - 5am because there's no power and driving is dangerous and there is limited police response (stay indoors, no crime after 8!). She has no power and when she tried to leave there was a 3 mile line to get on the highway. This is a big military community and retirement area and it's winter with persistent power outage. What the gently caress, I can't even, she can't even get to our other family outside of Charlotte until the traffic evacuation calms down
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Dec 6, 2022 02:18
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