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Prurient Squid posted:I'd half read your post when I wrote this resonse. So this should not be intended as a comment on anything you said in the last six or so lines. There’s more to come too. Faith, final projects and the concrete universal are next.
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Dec 6, 2022 17:15
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Prurient Squid posted:Eric Hobsbawm once argued that you cannot be a nationalist without misunderstanding your nations history. I'm starting to wonder if it's possible to be a "traditionalist" without being very largely ignorant of Christianity's real traditions. I follow a particular Christian tradition as developed in the Anglican Book of Common Prayer (in daily practice the Canadian 1962 revision although I actually think the 1662 edition has much to recommend it, particularly in the form of the Communion service). In my Diocese this marks me as "traditional" but I would never claim that the tradition I follow is the only valid one and I am quite happy to study and understand others. I also would not claim my tradition somehow "recaptures" true primitive Christianity - it evolves out of a specific set of circumstances in the 16th and 17th centuries AD - and that does not bother me one whit: we are always able to learn more and our relationship to the Kingdom of God is never finished or static. This is the tradition that I love and brings me closer to God! This is a pretty good blog post someone shared that gets a bit at how I feel about the Prayer Book: https://thewomanfredi.blogspot.com/2022/10/off-by-heart-love-letter-to-book-of.html?m=1
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Dec 6, 2022 18:09
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Oh yeah, I was trying to learn the Nicene creed before wasn't I. Well right at the moment I'm trying to remember the names of the Hebrew calender months. But I might return to creeds in a bit.
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Dec 6, 2022 19:06
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May I ask for prayers, please? I am pretty much OK - but the rest of my team at work? Are being laid off. During the holiday season. I would like them to be able to find good employment, after this layoff. Thank you.
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Dec 7, 2022 01:49
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Qu Appelle posted:May I ask for prayers, please? Sure, hope it all works out as well as it can
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Dec 7, 2022 05:26
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I'm thinking about the idea that all ideologies should be judged by "their fruits" and actually I don't agree with this. That sort of gives me the image that world history is a big old-timey computer and there are different punch cards labeled Islam, Christianity, Arab Nationalism, Marxism etc... and you just insert the punch cards into the machine and it goes beep boop and then you patiently wait for the verdict. I think the relationship between ideas and their presumptive "fruits" is much more subtle than that. Actually I think one thing in particular which is downplayed in that paragidm is the role of pivotal events where the entire situation is on a knife-edge and a strong enough push from either side can alter the outcome markedly. Also we have to bear in mind the degree to which various regimes use ideologies as a cloak or trade on the good name of something to which they have a very dubious claim.
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Dec 7, 2022 20:51
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Prurient Squid posted:I'm thinking about the idea that all ideologies should be judged by "their fruits" and actually I don't agree with this. That sort of gives me the image that world history is a big old-timey computer and there are different punch cards labeled Islam, Christianity, Arab Nationalism, Marxism etc... and you just insert the punch cards into the machine and it goes beep boop and then you patiently wait for the verdict. Broadly speaking I think I agree with this assessment and particularly the fact that it is very hard to use the events of history to judge the "value" of an idea. History is so confused and contingent that it is often impossible to say that a given thing directly lead to some particular outcome: would thing X always happen because of system Y or is it only because of a specific interaction with person Z at exactly time T and if any of those has changed slightly would the outcome have been completely different? History is not inevitable! That also touches on another point that I think is sometimes missed: I don't think most people hold their religious beliefs (or most others for that matter) as a result of some sort of moral optimization process. For example I am not Christian because I have examined all of the moral content of all system out there and based on that decided that Anglican Christianity is "best". Rather I am looking for "Truth": in my experience of reality Christianity is "True" and at the end of the day I that experience of reality is what I have to go on. This is always in flux of course and I have been effectively atheist at various point in my life but that feeling of Truth keeps calling me back. The the virtues of the moral system are not the primary reason that I an Christian.
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Dec 7, 2022 21:58
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Individuals who are bigoted shitlords about their faith would almost certainly, in a world without religion, simply be bigoted shitlords about something else.
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Dec 7, 2022 22:04
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The way I think about it is that ideas are tools. People give them their purpose and decide what ends they are used for. It’s more like groups or individuals bear fruit. But ideas are what our brains are informed by, that’s what the culture that shapes us is made up of(ideas). It goes back to that shoreline metaphor I think most things, ourselves, ideas and physical things are intersections and it’s all dynamic. Also agree about pivotal events and the concept of kairos is the way I think about that.
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Dec 7, 2022 22:08
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Prurient Squid posted:I'm thinking about the idea that all ideologies should be judged by "their fruits" and actually I don't agree with this. That sort of gives me the image that world history is a big old-timey computer and there are different punch cards labeled Islam, Christianity, Arab Nationalism, Marxism etc... and you just insert the punch cards into the machine and it goes beep boop and then you patiently wait for the verdict. I do think that judging for instance a major religion based on lovely behavior by wicked people is foolish, although it may be worthwhile to see if there is some interplay between the behavior and some doctrinal topic.
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Dec 7, 2022 22:15
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https://twitter.com/mardirooster/status/1600542994003902477?s=46&t=UqA3VVJMiSTsgVzBNh1Yjw
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Dec 8, 2022 03:03
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:https://twitter.com/mardirooster/status/1600542994003902477?s=46&t=UqA3VVJMiSTsgVzBNh1Yjw That's just Ozymandias
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Dec 8, 2022 03:14
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What's that like a 48-pack
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Dec 8, 2022 03:15
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:https://twitter.com/mardirooster/status/1600542994003902477?s=46&t=UqA3VVJMiSTsgVzBNh1Yjw 
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Dec 8, 2022 03:29
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The ones on the side are the Serratus Anterior and Obliques. They're a little messed up though, as is the usual case when looking at ai "art"
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Dec 8, 2022 03:33
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According to Buddhist legend the Buddha actually had an anti-horny aura so people wouldn’t suffer from unfulfilled sexual desire when looking at him. I2600 years later it has finally failed.
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Dec 8, 2022 03:43
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I think the fig tree discourse is definitely pointed at organizations and practices rather than ideologies per se. In context it reads as a criticism of the Pharisaic social order, who the Gospel author/Jesus are saying do not bear fruits from their religious practice, but rather comply with a law for its own sake. For a modern reader, I don't think the first lesson to take should be 'which international religious organization do I sign up for', more like 'what is my religious practice achieving? local church A or B?'. Now granted, I do personally look at the wages of Marxism or the Catholic Church's institutional and doctrinal choices and think, those fruits do not look good to me. But that is merely a first leading that must be investigated further, because as has been said you only get one history to examine. If you can't pick out a structural issue that lead to the historical failures you observed, you do not understand the issue yet. Re: sexy Buddha: One supernatural attainment of a sufficiently advanced practitioner is to contract every other abdominal muscle.
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Dec 8, 2022 05:16
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The line about Zechariah being killed "between the altar and the sanctuary" reminds me of Thomas Becket being murdered by knights in Canterbury Cathedral. The King at the time had said "who will rid me of this turbulent priest" and according to the the usual account a bunch of knights went off and killed him right in the middle of the church which was an outrage. edit: I like the part where someone tells Jesus "do you know there's a guy trying to kill you?" and Jesus says, don't worry, I'm not even at Jerusalem yet. Don't you know that prophets are always killed in Jerusalem? Prurient Squid fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Dec 8, 2022 |
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Dec 8, 2022 13:14
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If Quakers "answer to that of God in every one" then why shouldn't that include the people who made Lazerlords? I see no reason. edit: "If you can make your mind as empty as the void, then the void will rush into you. You will see marvelous things." Prurient Squid fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Dec 8, 2022 |
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Dec 8, 2022 18:15
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Prurient Squid posted:The line about Zechariah being killed "between the altar and the sanctuary" reminds me of Thomas Becket being murdered by knights in Canterbury Cathedral. The King at the time had said "who will rid me of this turbulent priest" and according to the the usual account a bunch of knights went off and killed him right in the middle of the church which was an outrage. According to Orthodox tradition, the Zechariah Jesus is referring to is specifically John the Baptist's father, who died to Herod's goons so his wife and child could get away. Keromaru5 fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Dec 8, 2022 |
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Dec 8, 2022 18:20
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On the wikipedia page it mentioned the possiblity that some of the killers fled up to the vacinity of where I live!
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Dec 8, 2022 19:39
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Prurient Squid posted:On the wikipedia page it mentioned the possiblity that some of the killers fled up to the vacinity of where I live! Stay safe 
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Dec 8, 2022 22:15
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One time I was at a meeting of The People's Assembly. A lot of things were written on a flipboard and then so far as I'm aware no one ever met again and nothing was ever done. I'm bringing this up because I remember one woman getting up and breathlessly making some kind of contribution on the spur of the moment. Now I have a word for what she did. "Ministry".
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Dec 9, 2022 11:46
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shame on an IGA posted:Individuals who are bigoted shitlords about their faith would almost certainly, in a world without religion, simply be bigoted shitlords about something else. Naw, they'd belong to Creativity
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Dec 9, 2022 11:46
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For a moment there I had an idea of reading the whole of the bible and rewarding myself with digimon booster every 50 or so chapters.
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Dec 9, 2022 12:58
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Prurient Squid posted:For a moment there I had an idea of reading the whole of the bible and rewarding myself with digimon booster every 50 or so chapters. Getting through Leviticus should earn you a booster box by itself.
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Dec 9, 2022 13:22
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Do you know what? I'm kind of getting tired of Digimon right now.
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Dec 9, 2022 14:12
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I'm not tired of digimon. Cybersleuth is awesome! Anyway, I just thought that the word "mysticism" might be unhelpful language and if you took the same ideas as those of Christian mysticism and expressed them in terms of modern neuroscience you'd have something more accessible and then it struck me that I'd basically reinvented mindfulness from first principles. (yes, Eastern mysticism too but the two basiclly merge anyway.)
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Dec 9, 2022 18:10
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Does anyone have any decent articles or book recommendations for understanding and/or critiquing Mysticism? I keep not really grasping it and it's getting on my wick.
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Dec 10, 2022 09:54
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Every Pendle Hill Pamphlet (an American Quaker publication) I have picked up on the topic, or related topics, has had something interesting to say. Quakerism is built around mysticism and is pointedly open to critique so that's a decent place to begin. Mysticism is very personal so I don't think you're going to find any absolutes on the matter. Unrelated, I like the Episcopal Daily Prayer app a lot. I'm still not quite sold on silent prayer vs. guided prayer, or if picking is even necessary. Difficult to be a member of multiple communities scheduled around Sunday mornings though.
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Dec 10, 2022 10:20
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That's a pain,about the personal thing. What about larger scale critique? Other than, I presume, that it does tend to be personal? Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Dec 10, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 10:59
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Here are some personally salient critiques. Many mystical experiences can be skeptically explained by the power of the imagination, hallucination, or delusion. Mystical practice can be harmful to someone's mental health. Failures of discernment can cause mystical practice to lead one down a path of sin. Nevertheless, it's good imo.
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Dec 10, 2022 11:07
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Im going to be honest, I struggle a lot with the idea of the universe as something we need to accept and live with. I have a lot of difficulty with acceptance of myself and of my own limitations and of the existence of pain, suffering and death. I hate the idea of acceptance in general as well, I don't like the fact that "it is what it is" has become a part of my Lexicon. It's annoying and I'm trying not to just reflexivity scoff at stuff like Alan Watts or Ram Das. Partially because it's not really something I want to do, I want to be knowledgeable and approach things with openness and the ability to be thoughtful about stuff. It's just a pain. Also how does Mysticism even approach "sin"?
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Dec 10, 2022 11:11
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Mysticism is a very general term that cuts across many religious traditions. I carry a Christian viewpoint therefore I am describing mysticism from that viewpoint. That's where the reference to sin comes from, along with the reference to religious discernment.
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Dec 10, 2022 11:20
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Ohtori Akio posted:Mysticism is a very general term that cuts across many religious traditions. I carry a Christian viewpoint therefore I am describing mysticism from that viewpoint. That's where the reference to sin comes from, along with the reference to religious discernment. I know that, but how is the conception of sin different from a common one? Like how is "sin" differently viewed via mysticism?
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Dec 10, 2022 11:23
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I am unaware of any particular difference in the conceptualization of sin shared by mystics. I'll pray on this one though.
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Dec 10, 2022 11:28
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This was suggested to me by YouTube and I feel compelled to share it here. STONER DOOM & EASTERN ORTHODOX MONASTICISM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTO6u4GLli0
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Dec 10, 2022 11:44
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Josef bugman posted:I know that, but how is the conception of sin different from a common one? Like how is "sin" differently viewed via mysticism? Don't take this the wrong way, JB, but I kinda feel like you're about to start trying to apply logic and consistency to something that defies those things and you're going to get mad frustrated. Have you read 'The Cloud of Unknowing'? It's a difficult read but it's quite beautiful in places and I learned about it here in this thread. 'For He can well be loved, but he cannot be thought. By love he can be grasped and held, but by thought, neither grasped nor held. And therefore, though it may be good at times to think specifically of the kindness and excellence of God, and though this may be a light and a part of contemplation, all the same, in the work of contemplation itself, it must be cast down and covered with a cloud of forgetting. And you must step above it stoutly but deftly, with a devout and delightful stirring of love, and struggle to pierce that darkness above you; and beat on that thick cloud of unknowing with a sharp dart of longing love, and do not give up, whatever happens.'
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Dec 10, 2022 11:54
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HopperUK posted:Don't take this the wrong way, JB, but I kinda feel like you're about to start trying to apply logic and consistency to something that defies those things and you're going to get mad frustrated. I probably am. "just don't think about it" is not something I really "get" as a thing. If something doesn't have consistency then that is also something I have difficulty with. I haven't. I don't think I wpuld approach it correctly tbh. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Dec 10, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 12:00
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Josef bugman posted:I probably am. "just don't think about it" is not something I really "get" as a thing. If something doesn't have consistency then that is also something I have difficulty with. Well - you're supposed to think, but in a different way. Any time you get into mysticism you're going to start running into stuff that can't be easily described or explained. But people have always tried so keep looking; I'd like to learn more too, so you posting about it is useful for me!
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Dec 10, 2022 12:04
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