EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

Owling Howl: Jul 17, 2019

His Divine Shadow posted:

It's an interesting prediction for the future, not entirely unappealing either even if it has to come with another crash. But IMO I feel that's his least objectively motivated reasoning in the article. He just seems to thinks government interfereing in capital = bad and goes from there to justify it. I don't see it as that certain. History isn't a loop after all.

I read it as a prediction and not a value judgment. I don't see where he's saying it's bad that government direct capital - just that they are doing it and what he thinks the effects will be.

mortons stork posted:

Also his complaining that the people want relief from energy costs as if it were some unconscionable demand really gives away his game. Plus his whining that now the investors are gonna be drained, instead of the unworthy poors and youngs. Ugh.

Again not seeing the value judgment. He's saying governments are spending partly because theybhave to and partly because people want them to and then predicts the effects:

quote:

Savers won’t like it, but debtors and young people will. People’s wages will rise. Financial repression moves wealth from savers to debtors, and from old to young people. It will allow a lot of investment directed into things that people care about.

That is what inflation does. Whether you think it is good or bad is a matter of perspective. If you just bought a house this is great news for you. If you live on a fixed pension then it's not so great.

# ? Dec 1, 2022 15:55

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# ? May 17, 2024 23:55

mortons stork: Oct 13, 2012

quote:

Yes. People are screaming for energy relief, they want defence from Putin, they want to do something against climate change. People want that, and elected governments claim to follow the will of the people. No central banker will oppose that. After all, many of the things that are associated with financial repression will be quite popular.

This formulation is not neutral, to be charitable here. People demanding reasonable things is characterized as screaming. (elected) Governments doing them is bad because it is hard for the central bankers, the real oppressed minority, to oppose.

quote:

What would have to happen for you to conclude that we'll avoid this path?

If governments went out of interfering with the banking system, reinstated private sector credit risk and handed back control over the growth of money to central bankers. Also, if we had a huge productivity revolution that would make real GDP grow at 4%. This would allow us to keep inflation at 2% in order to get nominal growth of 6%. We can�t forecast productivity, and I never want to underestimate human ingenuity, so we�ll see about that. A third possibility would be voters telling their governments to stop these policies by voting them out of office. But this is not likely because, as mentioned, most people will like this environment at first. (emphasis mine)

seething condescension at the hoi polloi being unable to discern what's good for them by voting for popular policies as opposed to pain

quote:

What�s the endgame of this process, then?

We saw the endgame before, and that was the stagflation of the 1970s, when we had high inflation in combination with high unemployment.

governments doing things is the path to stagflation.

quote:

What will this new world mean for investors?

First of all: avoid government bonds. Investors in government debt are the ones who will be robbed slowly.

investors seeing lower returns is robbery, actually.

I don't want to do a line-by-line tone analysis on the interview but it is definitely not free of value judgment and I do not know what to tell you if these examples do not suffice and you believe it is

# ? Dec 1, 2022 17:01

His Divine Shadow: Aug 7, 2000; I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

I did get the impression he didn't like the idea of where things where going, but then again he's of the investor class himself. Maybe that's why the future he describes doesn't sound utterly terrible, because it's not the ideal future for his kind.

# ? Dec 1, 2022 20:00

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

His Divine Shadow posted:

I did get the impression he didn't like the idea of where things where going, but then again he's of the investor class himself. Maybe that's why the future he describes doesn't sound utterly terrible, because it's not the ideal future for his kind.

Yeah, I like the interviewee for how nakedly focused they are on the interests of various groups, including their own class. Which also helps you see the exact thing he doesn't mention: That the alternative environment is one where there's also exploding unemployment, but without a decade and a half of growing benefits leading up to it.

# ? Dec 1, 2022 20:15

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

the business press is typically much more candid about things than any other kind of mass media. ft is probably the best english-language news source on international politics and analysis, for example

# ? Dec 2, 2022 00:58

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

V. Illych L. posted:

the business press is typically much more candid about things than any other kind of mass media. ft is probably the best english-language news source on international politics and analysis, for example

The FT still very much has an editorial position that bleeds into their articles (pro-Western, center-right free market economic liberalism, and increasingly dogmatically socially liberal in an American sense). But yeah being a business paper first and foremost means they generally have to at least have _more_ of a focus on relatively unbiased truth than most other media. Its the best paper I'm aware of personally, and is highly thought of in policy making circles I know.

Their business model is quite interesting, instead of chasing huge numbers of subscribers at low prices the way the NYT or WaPo are doing the FT is sticking to its guns on a comparatively very high price for a smaller number of subscribers. I'd suspect thats playing a large part in keeping their reportage somewhat neutral and high quality - both that they can't afford to lose too many very valuable subscribers from their limited/discerning base, and that they aren't trying to be as broadly populist as other papers in an attempt to appeal as many readers as possible.

Their comments section under the articles usually has some great comments too, its limited to subscribers only so the high paywall keeps discourse fairly interesting. But its always interesting to see which topics they disable comments on because they won't like their readers' take - topics relating to Israel, and on immigration to the EU/US, are two big/regular ones.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 13:06

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

The FT comments are full of nut jobs what are you talking about

# ? Dec 2, 2022 15:05

mortons stork: Oct 13, 2012

Yeah I can attest to having read some of the best factual reporting esp. on EU affairs on the FT. They also maintain a newsroom and foreign correspondents, which seems a lost art to journalism these days, at least in my country. While the editorials and opinion pieces are usually dogshit as you'd expect, journalists putting in effort to investigate issues and present them as fully as possible does make a huge difference.

But the comments are just about the same as any other newspaper comment section yeah.

mortons stork fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Dec 2, 2022

# ? Dec 2, 2022 15:25

Venomous: Nov 7, 2011

The FT is the paper of capital, and it really does not want to lie to capital, hence why it more clearly says the poo poo that most every other British newspaper is reticent to print

# ? Dec 2, 2022 15:40

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Badger of Basra posted:

The FT comments are full of nut jobs what are you talking about

There are obviously still some nutjobs thats inescapable anywhere. But if you sort by 'most recommended' on any business/financial/political article on the FT you'll often find very good posts made by people who obviously work in the relevant industry and know what they're talking about. Its a much better signal:noise ratio than the vast majority of internet discussion spaces thanks to the subscription requirement to post.

# ? Dec 2, 2022 15:43

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Venomous posted:

The FT is the paper of capital, and it really does not want to lie to capital, hence why it more clearly says the poo poo that most every other British newspaper is reticent to print

Case in point:

# ? Dec 2, 2022 15:44

Doctor Malaver: May 23, 2007; Ce qui s'est pass� t'a rendu plus fort

I can't afford FT. What's the thread's opinion on Politico.eu?

# ? Dec 3, 2022 23:44

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

Doctor Malaver posted:

I can't afford FT. What's the thread's opinion on Politico.eu?

way more pro-war than the US site, it's very weird

# ? Dec 4, 2022 01:01

Spice World War II: Jul 12, 2004

Doctor Malaver posted:

I can't afford FT. What's the thread's opinion on Politico.eu?

Owned by Springer, the Murdoch of Germany

# ? Dec 4, 2022 10:04

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Politico.eu is owned by Axel Springer. It is not editorially independent.

I don't hang with violent bigots engaging in stochastic terrorism against my friends. I generally regard people who read it with suspicion of being transphobic bigots.

# ? Dec 4, 2022 10:07

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Doctor Malaver posted:

I can't afford FT. What's the thread's opinion on Politico.eu?

Politico.eu is a lot more limited in its coverage, its not a full service newspaper equivalent at all. You can just use the firefox extension "unpaywall" to view the FT's articles.

(though obviously in the long run its best to actually pay to support rare good journalism, they regularly have offers on subs that get it down to about $200 p.a. so its fairly good value too if you're reading it regularly)

# ? Dec 4, 2022 13:27

Doctor Malaver: May 23, 2007; Ce qui s'est pass� t'a rendu plus fort

Antigravitas posted:

violent bigots engaging in stochastic terrorism

what

Antigravitas posted:

I generally regard people who read it with suspicion of being transphobic bigots.

I visited the site a dozen times and I never saw anything about trans people.

# ? Dec 4, 2022 17:48

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Doctor Malaver posted:

what

I visited the site a dozen times and I never saw anything about trans people.

I�ve never heard of the website and in my first search result for the first set of keywords I could think of (�trans woke�) I found this. I don�t think you were looking hard.

https://www.politico.eu/article/how-trade-went-woke/

quote:

How UK trade went woke
Trade agreements are no longer simply about imports and exports.

BRITAIN-UN-CLIMATE-COP26
The woke trade agenda is as much about PR and economic protections as it is about values.
Press play to listen to this article

Voiced by artificial intelligence.

LONDON � Welcome to the new era of woke trade.

New U.K. deals will reduce tariffs, ease the flow of data across borders and � improve gender rights.

Sexism is just one of the social issues cropping up in global trade agreements � alongside environmental protections, human, labor and animal rights, and safeguards for indigenous communities.

While some argue the widening out of trade policy to reflect voters' values more broadly is a political necessity, others worry this over-complicates negotiations.

As Britain formulates an independent trade policy outside the European Union for the first time in more than 40 years, such dilemmas are particularly politically sticky. Boris Johnson's government, many of whom are instinctively allergic to accusations of "virtue signaling," must also sell global trade to voters.

"'Woke' trade policy is here to stay, and that's a good thing," said John Ballingall, a British economist working at consultancy Sense Partners in New Zealand. He added societal issues are now �mainstream government objectives,� with trade deals reflecting that.

�Trade policy has adjusted to reflect changes in societal preferences,� he said. �And that's no bad thing.�

Others are less convinced. Daniel Hannan, a Conservative peer and senior government adviser on trade, said such important moral questions �should be treated as issues in their own right, not shoe-horned into trade deals.�

Speaking at a conference in central London, he said arguing for environmental provisions or gender rights in trade agreements was �a kind of massive virtue signal,� adding: �That isn't what a trade deal is or does. A trade deal is about identifying specific obstacles and removing them.�

Hannan won unexpected support from Vince Cable, a Liberal Democrat former business secretary who appeared at the same event. He said making trade deals �with knobs on� was �completely inappropriate� and �devalues� the agreements, as well as the issues themselves. �The whole idea that gender, human rights and labor standards should be part of trade agreements is virtue signaling and it's deeply unhelpful and actually is blocking sensible trade agreements,� he added.

Even those who support a moralistic approach to trade admit such societal issues make negotiations more difficult, although they argue this is a trade-off worth making.

"Anyone who argues we should go back to the old days of trade working in a silo is in cloud cuckoo land,� said Chris Southworth, secretary general of the U.K. branch of the International Chambers of Commerce. �Trade now impacts every single area of public policy. It�s just nonsense to think trade should exist in a room on its own.�

Woke PR

It�s not just Britain transforming trade policy from simply the exchange of goods and services. The EU and others have long been at it on the environment. New Zealand insists on clauses to protect Māori communities, while Canada and Chile and a number of East African nations have written women's rights into deals.

�The U.K. begins its quest for global trade deals at a time when the British people have come to expect high standards in food production, agriculture and animal welfare,� said Sophia Gaston, director of the British Foreign Policy Group think tank. �They are also increasingly attuned to issues around labor standards and the environmental footprint of imported goods. These aren't just 'woke concerns' � they are very much the mainstream.�

Aside from the moral imperatives, there are economic benefits to the woke agenda too. Advocates argue that empowering women, transforming the planet to become carbon-neutral and nurturing powerful indigenous economies will not only be beneficial from an equalities and environmental standpoint but will also fuel production and tap new markets and skills.

But some lofty moral ambitions come with economic costs � at least in the short term � including efforts to improve animal welfare, give workers a fair deal and protect the planet. That�s why writing those issues into trade deals can become useful, so that countries avoid undercutting each other with lower standard imports that are cheaper to produce.

Nic Lockhart, an expert in international trade at law firm Sidley Austin, said writing woke terms into deals is a recognition that upholding values can �come at a cost in the marketplace, and so by seeking agreements with trading partners you're seeking to level the playing field.�

It�s accepted within the U.K. government that failing to recognize values held dear by the public could sound the death knell for future deals. When the U.K. trade department was set up, ministers and officials looked to the failed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership negotiations between the EU and U.S. as a lesson in how not to do trade, according to a former government official.

The TTIP talks collapsed amid public fears the agreement would benefit big businesses at the expense of the environment, workers and animals. That outcome was viewed as a massive trade failure, not to mention a waste of resources.

When Liz Truss took over the U.K. trade department in summer 2019, she vowed to avoid another TTIP disaster and began viewing deals like election campaigns � each had to earn its own mandate from the public.

That meant making arguments beyond dry GDP figures and import and export numbers, focusing on jobs and the softer benefits of what the much-heralded �Global Britain� brand could mean.

She also aimed to walk the line between flag-waving free-traders, whose approach the public might not swallow, and the environmentalists, NGOs and opposition parties, whose trade-skeptic arguments might also overshoot and misjudge the public mood.

It was a lesson New Zealand had to learn too. Ballingall said the government there had to rebuild �the social license for trade liberalization� in the wake of difficult [Trans-Pacific Partnership] negotiations. That meant speaking to Māori groups, trade unions and environmental campaigners � not just exporters � �all with the idea of trying to reflect their interests inside trade agreements.�

Woke trade barriers

But making a moral case for trade with Australia and New Zealand is a walk in the park compared to other plans Britain has for deals with the Gulf Nations, India and the U.S., among others.

Working to strike a trade deal that includes Saudi Arabia, for example � an oil-rich, human-rights nightmare of a nation where restrictions on women are rife � risks becoming a PR fireball for the British government.

Gaston, from the British Foreign Policy Group, said a moral approach to trade �becomes more challenging with strategic partners and non-democratic states.� She added: �Ultimately, the British people recognize that economic interests do sometimes need to be prioritized, but they will want to know the government has really tried to defend the values they care strongly about.�

Others make the argument that trade can become a platform for more woke nations to challenge others � although there is little suggestion of that happening with China.

�Our diplomacy alongside our economic diplomacy does work,� insisted one U.K. minister, arguing the U.K. can export its values as well as its goods. �We�re the people�s government, and the people are very clear that deforestation matters to them and women should have rights around the world.�

# ? Dec 4, 2022 17:54

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

mawarannahr posted:

I�ve never heard of the website and in my first search result for the first set of keywords I could think of (�trans woke�) I found this. I don�t think you were looking hard.

https://www.politico.eu/article/how-trade-went-woke/

The correct slur to search for is "transe", since Axel Springer is a German company. Like this:

Axel Springer acquired politico.eu to expand, and this is the editorial line through all its publications. The only difference is the target audience: Bild for the dumbest morons imaginable, Welt for people with pretensions of intellect, and Politico for online.

See also: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/06/axel-springer-politico-media-scandal-germany-bild/

# ? Dec 4, 2022 18:12

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

the dumbest anti-China article I've read in quite awhile came out of politico.eu recently as well

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...ls-trouble/amp/

# ? Dec 4, 2022 18:16

Gucci Loafers: May 20, 2006; Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?

mortons stork posted:

Yeah I can attest to having read some of the best factual reporting esp. on EU affairs on the FT. They also maintain a newsroom and foreign correspondents, which seems a lost art to journalism these days, at least in my country. While the editorials and opinion pieces are usually dogshit as you'd expect, journalists putting in effort to investigate issues and present them as fully as possible does make a huge difference.

Bumping this, the FT has phenomenal reporting. There's a reason why it's commonly referred to as the "Bible of Capitalism" and pretty much took the top of spot for financial news ever since the WSJ was bought out by Rupert Murdoch's news corp.

Badger of Basra posted:

The FT comments are full of nut jobs what are you talking about

I dare you to read WSJ Opinion-Editorials.

# ? Dec 4, 2022 20:18

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

speaking of financial papers, why doesn't the WSJ operate along the same lines as FT as the "honest capitalist" mouthpiece? WSJ opinion pieces are both mind-numbingly dumb and totally fanatical

# ? Dec 4, 2022 20:33

lobster shirt: Jun 14, 2021

i say swears online posted:

speaking of financial papers, why doesn't the WSJ operate along the same lines as FT as the "honest capitalist" mouthpiece? WSJ opinion pieces are both mind-numbingly dumb and totally fanatical

the reporting functions that way i think but it's still a murdoch paper so they have to hire the world's stupidest people to write editorials

# ? Dec 4, 2022 20:38

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

who's the target audience then? small business tyrants who think they're captains of industry?

# ? Dec 4, 2022 20:52

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

i would imagine the venn diagram overlap of "people who read the reporting" and "people who read the editorials" is pretty small

the former is mostly subscribers, the latter is mostly hatereaders on twitter

# ? Dec 4, 2022 21:04

Doctor Malaver: May 23, 2007; Ce qui s'est pass� t'a rendu plus fort

mawarannahr posted:

I�ve never heard of the website and in my first search result for the first set of keywords I could think of (�trans woke�) I found this. I don�t think you were looking hard.

https://www.politico.eu/article/how-trade-went-woke/

This article doesn't contain the word 'trans', unless you felt 'transforming' and 'Transatlantic' are relevant. It does use the word woke, which is a poor choice, but other than that I'd say it's even-handed. Did you even read it?

i say swears online posted:

the dumbest anti-China article I've read in quite awhile came out of politico.eu recently as well

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...ls-trouble/amp/

This on the other hand really sounds dumb.

Antigravitas posted:

Axel Springer acquired politico.eu to expand, and this is the editorial line through all its publications. The only difference is the target audience: Bild for the dumbest morons imaginable, Welt for people with pretensions of intellect, and Politico for online.

See also: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/06/axel-springer-politico-media-scandal-germany-bild/

Thanks for the link and for reminding me of Foreign Policy.

# ? Dec 4, 2022 21:15

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Doctor Malaver posted:

This article doesn't contain the word 'trans', unless you felt 'transforming' and 'Transatlantic' are relevant. It does use the word woke, which is a poor choice, but other than that I'd say it's even-handed. Did you even read it?

I used Google, which doesn�t care if the keywords appear in the article. I did read the article, it�s horseshit promoting odious views written entirely in the language of those who speak for those views, presented as some both sides disingenuity.

# ? Dec 4, 2022 23:20

Morrow: Oct 31, 2010

Forgive me if this is a derail, or if there's a dedicated France thread, but I've seen Macron jokingly referred to as Jupiter a lot. Is this just a reference to his ego or is there a story behind it?

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:57

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Morrow posted:

Forgive me if this is a derail, or if there's a dedicated France thread, but I've seen Macron jokingly referred to as Jupiter a lot. Is this just a reference to his ego or is there a story behind it?

He came out and said he wanted to rule like Jupiter. So yes, it's a reference to his ego, a self-reference

# ? Dec 5, 2022 15:59

kliras: Mar 27, 2021

dude keeps talking like a sun king with respect to monarchies and gods, he's on that european augustus stuff

# ? Dec 5, 2022 16:04

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

forkboy84 posted:

He came out and said he wanted to rule like Jupiter.

A giant ball of gas that's mostly useful for making science projects go faster the other way?

# ? Dec 5, 2022 16:08

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

Lol

https://twitter.com/PopulismUpdates/status/1599524279963422721

# ? Dec 6, 2022 13:37

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Charlz Guybon posted:

Lol

https://twitter.com/PopulismUpdates/status/1599524279963422721

My man�s getting into bread this winter to weather the cold

https://twitter.com/quicktake/status/1598393897981550592

Wish I had more centimeters of know-how myself

mawarannahr fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Dec 6, 2022

# ? Dec 6, 2022 21:36

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Yo, baguette is serious business.

# ? Dec 6, 2022 22:09

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

https://twitter.com/lesoir/status/1601281939423502336

quote:

Greek Socialist MEP Eva Kaili, one of the 14 vice-presidents of the European Parliament, was brought in for questioning in Brussels on Friday evening in connection with an investigation into suspected corruption involving "a Gulf country", AFP and Belgian outlet Le Soir reported, quoting prosecutor's offfice.

Four arrests had already taken place in the Belgian capital in the morning in the same case. Media outlets in Greece and Belgium reported that one of the four arrested is Kaili's partner.

The Greek socialist party PASOK, of which Kaili is a member, announced on Friday evening that she was "expelled" from its membership.

Belgium's Federal Prosecutor's Office said it recovered �600,000 in cash and seized computers and mobile phones in Friday's swoop.

It said the investigation was centred on European parliamentary assistants but that one former MEP had been questioned.

"For several months, investigators of the Federal Judicial Police have suspected a Gulf country to influence the economic and political decisions of the European Parliament, this is done so by paying large sums of money or offering large gifts to third parties with a significant political and/or strategic position within the European Parliament," it said.

The prosecutor's office did not name the country at the centre of the probe. Its press statement only referred to a "Gulf state". Le Soir identified the country as Qatar.

The beneficiaries are personalities with "a significant political and/or strategic position" in the European Parliament.

The arrested quartet have not been identified by Belgian authorities, but they are believed to be an unnamed NGO director; trade union leader Luca Visentini; the former S&D MEP Pier-Antonio Panzeri; and a man identified as F.G., Panzeri's former parliamentary assistant with links to the S&D group and Kaili's partner.

Kaili, 44, is a former Greek television presenter and MEP since 2014.

Contacted by Euronews, the European Parliament's press services said that "the European Parliament does not comment on judicial proceedings".

"As always, the European Parliament fully cooperates with the national authorities in charge. The same in this specific case," they added.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MpuwUHeNFc

# ? Dec 9, 2022 21:59

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

This article from November sure ended ominously:

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-...-2022-kicks-in/

quote:

There had been some hesitancy before the vote especially from within the S&D and the EPP, with Socialist lawmaker and Parliament Vice President Eva Kaili arguing Wednesday that Qatar is a �frontrunner in labor rights,� but that still some �discriminate� against it.

It's amazing what people will say for a bag of money.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 11:25

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Being able to buy off FIFA so brazenly must have given the Qataris ideas.

# ? Dec 10, 2022 12:38

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Good to see PASOK learning from their past venality

# ? Dec 10, 2022 13:08

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

E: wrong forum. I said �Socialists ftw,� instead I�ll just say this is a stain on our world and they should pretend to do better at least.

mawarannahr fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Dec 16, 2022

# ? Dec 16, 2022 23:16

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# ? May 17, 2024 23:55

Jon Pod Van Damm: Apr 6, 2009; THE POSSESSION OF WEALTH IS IN AND OF ITSELF A SIGN OF POOR VIRTUE. AS SUCH:
1 NEVER TRUST ANY RICH PERSON.
2 NEVER HIRE ANY RICH PERSON.
BY RULE 1, IT IS APPROPRIATE TO PRESUME THAT ALL DEGREES AND CREDENTIALS HELD BY A WEALTHY PERSON ARE FRAUDULENT. THIS JUSTIFIES RULE 2--RULE 1 NEEDS NO JUSTIFIC

Nenonen posted:

https://twitter.com/lesoir/status/1601281939423502336

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MpuwUHeNFc

https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1604771230816550913

quote:

Qatar has threatened to cut off energy supplies to Belgium and Europe in a row over a corruption scandal that has shaken the European Union"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ox=1671436134-1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WZLJpMOxS4

# ? Dec 20, 2022 23:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

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