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Mister Olympus posted:The situation with the website side stories is also interesting as the game's development goes on. They're not quite at this point yet, but there will come a time where I think that the expectation of 'if you're invested in the lore, you're reading the tales from x, right?' becomes extremely clear. Kind of, it's never required to know what is going on (compared to WoW, which did have important lore information in books you had to purchase, including the entire backstory for an expansion) but there are parts of the story heavily enhanced by reading the tales, and they outright said as much when announcing those particular "Tales from X". sirtommygunn posted:I don't want to get too into it until the end but I think a lot of the problems with the story could have been fixed if there had been 1 less Ala Mhigo zone and 1 more Othard zone, with narrative time distributed to match. There's just too much happening in the Doman side of the story with not enough time to flesh it out. Doma already has 7 out of 10 levels dedicated to it. You spend more time in Doma than Ala Mihgo already, in an expansion where our introduction to the story was trying to liberate Ala Mihgo, they've barely gotten the chance to exist, and our main secondary protagonist is tied specifically to the Ala Mihgo side of the story too (Lyse). Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Dec 10, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 16:24
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I always read Gotestsu's line calling her the 'The Widow of Sashihai' as a direct taunt, defining her by the horrible drunk she was forced to marry to. An incredibly cruel jab to try and rile her up by saying that she's not the Imperial viceroy, this killer of Domans she's still just The 'good widow of that doman you married.' Given the implications of the forced marriage and it being one of the foundational blocks of her pain and anger made it hit home hard. Basically it was just him trying to flex any control over his situation of being captured and tortured.
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Dec 10, 2022 16:35
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My opinion on how necessary the webstories are is heavily colored by which parts of that particular story I experienced first, but that's a discussion for years from now. This is an interesting subject, though, because the LP take on these events is on some level colored by pacing--I wonder how much of a break between each of these story segments they thought people would take, given it's all part of launch and the leveling experience; cranking this out within a couple weeks is very different from this experience, and the flipside is that patch stories here be spread out much more evenly instead of in these concentrated serialized chunks every few months with pause for speculation and debate that the up-to-date player gets.
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Dec 10, 2022 16:36
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i personally write Yotsuyu's story not matching up with what we know via echo off as "this is still her doing a bit" she is trying to drag this out so she can blow up the castle on top of you all, and telling the true story might not be quite as effective. she's only got the one thing left that keeps her going, and dammit, she's gonna go out swinging. also, the appearance of Hypertuned Gryn is the moment when the story decides to club you over the head with 'empire is a machine that turns people into monsters.' in case you haven't gotten it yet, here's a comic relief villain you've clowned on effortlessly for the last eight levels. by the power of Garlemald, where once there was a person there is now a horrifying warped thing screaming only for the blood of his enemies, and also he has a chainsaw sword. subtext, cowards, etc.
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Dec 10, 2022 17:20
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Hah, I had forgotten about the inconsistencies there. Yeah, this is one of the parts where Stormblood falls flat for me. I kind of understand the desire to not want to do the same expansion twice (I know I give WoW enough flack for giving us two expansions where a controversial figure is made Warchief, starts using bad stuff in order to gain power, gets people to rebel against them, cracks down on dissidents hard, and then is overthrown by the Horde and also the Alliance is there I guess) but it still means that Doma and especially Ala Mhigo are underbaked as regions as compared to everywhere else so far.
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Dec 10, 2022 17:26
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GilliamYaeger posted:Hopefully we'll hear from the man himself once the MSQ reworks that added Duty Support to ARR and HW reach Stormblood. Though that begs the question - Yugiri, Hien and Gosetsu are all DPS classes. Who'd be the tank and healer? Would Hien bust out a nodachi and a modified DRK moveset? Or will we be lucky enough to have Magnai and Sadu tag along for the assault? Though even with that we still wouldn't have a healer... While it would be cool to have Hien and Gosetsu along for duty support, because the narrative splits them off on another path, I suspect we will go with either our Steppe friends and Lyse, or some generic Domans. We'll find out!
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Dec 10, 2022 17:32
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FuturePastNow posted:While it would be cool to have Hien and Gosetsu along for duty support, because the narrative splits them off on another path, I suspect we will go with either our Steppe friends and Lyse, or some generic Domans. We'll find out! Magnai / Cirina / Sadu / Lyse would be the ideal set of NPCs for Duty Support roles so that is probably what it will end up being.
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Dec 10, 2022 17:41
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Runa posted:Unsurprisingly, Yotsuyu discourse is one of those perennial topics that flares up, year after year. Ah, the Yotsuyu discourse. I don't think anyone ever goes "Yotsuyu did nothing wrong" or "Yotsuyu makes more sense than the heroes" like people tend to for Gaius, but it's definitely one of those topics that's like a landmine when it comes to discussing Final Fantasy XIV's story. OhFunny posted:Be they friend or foe, In hindsight, the writers really do seem to like killing off Roegadyn characters... Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Dec 10, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 17:41
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FuturePastNow posted:While it would be cool to have Hien and Gosetsu along for duty support, because the narrative splits them off on another path, I suspect we will go with either our Steppe friends and Lyse, or some generic Domans. We'll find out!
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Dec 10, 2022 17:46
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Hellioning posted:Hah, I had forgotten about the inconsistencies there. as an exercise, let's count the plot threads Doma Castle is trying to resolve. 1. Hien is unsure about if he will be a decent king. this is answered by "well i guess I am now, lol" 2. Yotsuyu is just loving awful. this is resolved by "oh my, yes she is, fortunately she blew up the castle with herself inside it." 3. Gosetsu is filled with shame he has not died for his lord. this is resolved by letting him die for his lord. will grant that his line about "gambling was never my vice" makes for extremely solid last words. 4. Gryne is still out there trying to kill us. this is resolved with him turning into Garlean Doomguy, and us killing him. as a bonus, this means there was a single part of this story that involved the Warrior of Light! the extent of our personal involvement outside of him is "Yotsuyu's loving awful, gently caress her I guess." 5. The people of Doma: will they rebel? Can they overthrow their masters? this is answered with a yes, with a little help from their friends. 6. Lyse is also here, learning... something, presumably? to paraphrase the immortal words of george lucas, they may have gone too far in a couple places. they manage to get all of these stories to the finish line, which is a pretty heroic bit of work given the time and space provided, but the number of points they have to cover means they are stretched very thin trying to do it. this is why I said that given a chance at a re-do, I suspect the Azim Steppe's plot gets cut. if Bardam's Mettle could be replaced with some hypothetical "Hien, Lyse, and the people of Doma launch a first strike and figure out how rebelling works, also we get some Yotsuyu revelations" plot point, that would free up a lot of structural space for Doma Castle to drill down to only two or three points.
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Dec 10, 2022 17:49
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Rorahusky posted:That said, the way they did things in Stormblood does leave a lot to be desired. I mean, when was the last time we really had anything to do in Ala Mhigo this expansion? We basically left that all behind near the start of the expansion all the way back at level 61-ish, and now we've completed the level 67 Dungeon and only after that are we FINALLY going back to the place we ostensibly launched into this expansion to liberate. It really does feel like Ala Mhigo has more or less been forgotten about for most of the plot because the writers are too busy geeking out over Samurais. Hard agree. I always felt like Doma was the story that the writers wanted to tell this expac, and Ala Mhigo was just the obligatory "Might as well resolve this plot point" segment that happened along the way. It doesn't help that Gyr Abania is boring as all hell to look at in comparison to all of the vibrant colors and visuals of Othard and almost all of the side content that occurs in Stormblood takes place in either Hingashi or Othard as well. Heck, the one prominent bit of content I want to say takes place in Gyr Abania actually takes place in an entirely different arena that just happens to be CONNECTED to Gyr Abania. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Dec 10, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 17:51
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hazardousmouse posted:haven't quite finished the entire post but wanted to get some thoughts down You've got a point here, I am putting Gosetsu on a bit of a pedestal. But I think the narrative encourages you to do that to some degree. His idealism and moral compass are his strongest character traits. Of course the game shows us that he's flawed and made huge mistakes in his life, but it also shows us that he's capable of adapting and how important atonement is to him, which in a way makes him more admirable than if he was perfect. I guess I just have this feeling that if Gosetsu is going to do something that awful, it ought to have been addressed. And in a very small way I think it was, which is why I really noticed that last-second tone shift toward how he spoke to Yotsuyu. But I think it could have, and should have been more. I'd even go so far as to say it WOULD HAVE been more if they'd had the page space. I have some more thoughts on this, and the general idea of this whole "Do you want two expansions with the same story?" problem, but I think the appropriate place to put them is at the end of 4.0 when I've seen and written on both narratives to their completion. Don't let the fact that I'm kicking the can on that stop anyone from chatting about it now though 
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Dec 10, 2022 18:05
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I think the idea of Grynewaht is that he's treating Wollie like the horror movie villain that she is from his perspective. To you, he's an amusing recurring joke. To him, in-setting, Wollie is a juggernaut of destruction and bloodshed who destroyed his life without ever really being aware of it. He's funny until all of a sudden it's made painfully clear that while he was a joke to you, you were not a joke to him Wollie is legitimately terrifying unless you're confirmed to be on her side.
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Dec 10, 2022 19:03
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Cythereal posted:I think the idea of Grynewaht is that he's treating Wollie like the horror movie villain that she is from his perspective. To you, he's an amusing recurring joke. To him, in-setting, Wollie is a juggernaut of destruction and bloodshed who destroyed his life without ever really being aware of it. Instead of "ki ki ki ah ah ah" it's Maker's Ruin faintly in the background.
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Dec 10, 2022 19:07
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I agree that the scene at the end of Doma Castle goes on so long that it starts to lose some of its poignancy. What starts as a pretty spectacular finale gets lost in the weeds enough that I regard it less fondly as a result. That being said, I enjoy the ROG/NIN npcs more than the job itself so I didn't have it leveled the last time I went through SB. I've heard Oboro shows up but it's nice to see where that happens!
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Dec 10, 2022 19:11
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Bruceski posted:Instead of "ki ki ki ah ah ah" it's Maker's Ruin faintly in the background. 
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Dec 10, 2022 19:38
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I don't retain enough detailed information to have noticed that inconsistency 
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Dec 10, 2022 19:48
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I love that shot. The way the helm wings and pauldrons glow in that shot really amps up the eerieness.
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Dec 10, 2022 19:48
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Kazy posted:I don't retain enough detailed information to have noticed that inconsistency me neither. i would not make a very good WoL irl because i'd forget most of what i saw in an echo vision like, immediately
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Dec 10, 2022 20:09
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I figure the Blessing of Light has a few side benefits, like remembering all our stupid sidequests, and the fact that our knees still work despite the number of cliffs we've
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Dec 10, 2022 20:20
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I feel like Gosetsu got 3-4 death scenes in one go.
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Dec 10, 2022 20:21
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I like the Doma arc way more than any other part of Stormblood, despite some issues in the storytelling. I think it comes down to the fact that so much of Doma feels "fun", for lack of a better word. It's got lots of goofy stuff like Hancock, the Namazu, and the Kojin of the Blue. The environments are colorful and dynamic. You get to spend time with some perennial favorites like Yotsuyu, Gosetsu, and Hien (even if you feel like he's ill-defined, he's still charismatic and fun to see in action). The tribes of the Steppe are so vivacious and interesting. The villain is dripping with personality and can invite endless debate, as people have brought up. Meanwhile the Ala Mhigo stuff just feels like a dour, beige drag.
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Dec 10, 2022 20:30
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Gyr Abania visually lacks a lot of the charm points of real deserts, unfortunately; we haven't seen the best area in it, but it doesn't make up for how bland a lot of it is even for me, the Desert Enjoyer. For all that I'm not fond of being in many of the Doma areas I'm not going to claim they're boring to look at in the same way as a lot of Gyr Abania is, which is a crime—deserts are cool! They have some really intense color in the rocks and cool-looking plants! Lean into that!
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Dec 10, 2022 20:48
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YggiDee posted:I figure the Blessing of Light has a few side benefits, like remembering all our stupid sidequests, and the fact that our knees still work despite the number of cliffs we've The WoL remembers things because they keep a detailed journal of their activities, something I should have gotten into years ago but never did. 
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Dec 10, 2022 20:50
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wdarkk posted:I feel like Gosetsu got 3-4 death scenes in one go. Yeah, the ceiling coming down, him getting shot, and still having time to give a heartfelt goodbye to all of his buddies was just a bit too over the top. It'd be like if Haurchefant beat the poo poo out of the Heavens' Ward members that were still around, gave an impassioned speech to Thordan before he escaped, and then still had his whole dying chat with the WoL before he died. Schwartzcough posted:Meanwhile the Ala Mhigo stuff just feels like a dour, beige drag. 
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Dec 10, 2022 20:55
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:It'd be like if Haurchefant beat the poo poo out of the Heavens' Ward members that were still around, gave an impassioned speech to Thordan before he escaped, and then still had his whole dying chat with the WoL before he died. The way I tell the story, he did. <  >
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Dec 10, 2022 21:02
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Kerrzhe posted:me neither. i would not make a very good WoL irl because i'd forget most of what i saw in an echo vision like, immediately On the contrary, I think this is incredibly in-character for a Warrior of Light.
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Dec 10, 2022 21:04
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We are probably four concussions in by now...
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Dec 10, 2022 21:06
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Only four?
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Dec 10, 2022 21:26
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It's where I stopped counting
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Dec 10, 2022 21:46
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Sanguinia posted:Chapter 29: To Right the Unrightable Wrong You know, I never even noticed that it was a Doom reference, "RIP AND TEAR" just seemed like a perfectly appropriate thing for Gryne to be saying in that fight. Doma castle is one of my absolute favorite dungeons, the music is incredible and the scenery is beautiful. It really gets across a sense of spectacle, which is something the game leans into more and more, as you've seen throughout this expansion. As far as the plot... yeah this is another area where it really suffers from feeling like two expansions mashed together. You get both the weird false start at the beginning in Gyr Abania, and then the victory that gets cut short here. The Doma plot has all the bones of a good story, and people love to argue about it using details brought up later or in side-stories, but it's just not there in the game. It ends up feeling like a very shallow "the rightful king returns" sort of story.
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Dec 10, 2022 21:55
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sirtommygunn posted:I don't want to get too into it until the end but I think a lot of the problems with the story could have been fixed if there had been 1 less Ala Mhigo zone and 1 more Othard zone, with narrative time distributed to match. There's just too much happening in the Doman side of the story with not enough time to flesh it out. Everything else feels pretty important. Like Clockwork posted:Gyr Abania visually lacks a lot of the charm points of real deserts, unfortunately; we haven't seen the best area in it, but it doesn't make up for how bland a lot of it is even for me, the Desert Enjoyer. For all that I'm not fond of being in many of the Doma areas I'm not going to claim they're boring to look at in the same way as a lot of Gyr Abania is, which is a crime—deserts are cool! They have some really intense color in the rocks and cool-looking plants! Lean into that! Monk stuff's nice, I guess: quote:dyslexicfaser fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Dec 10, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 22:07
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On Yotsuyu being sold off, I assumed that her Mother was just lying in the flashback and is actually her mother not her aunt.
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Dec 10, 2022 22:17
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Doma Castle is a great dungeon. The music holds up amazingly well no matter how many times I come back and you can pull BIG through the first stretch and the rivers with the gun turrets. The biggest letdown for me in this section is actually the Doman Armored Weapon trash mob right before the dungeon boss. Its name is so evocative but it looks just like any other Garlean mech. Wish it had Chinese style lamellar armor or something to better symbolize the assimilation or just local material sourcing and production methods.
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Dec 10, 2022 22:19
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Zetetica posted:Its name is so evocative but it looks just like any other Garlean mech. Because you've fought one before by this time. The first Armored Weapon was the first boss in Baelsar's Wall. Now it's nothing but a miniboss.
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Dec 10, 2022 22:23
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dyslexicfaser posted:
Honestly I completely forgot that the Ala Mhigan outfits existed, which is probably a bad sign for them.
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Dec 10, 2022 22:28
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WE GO TOGETHER is what I say when a Dragoon uses Dragon Sight on my BLM. Aetherial manipulation next to them, plop down my leylines.
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Dec 10, 2022 22:33
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On the topic of Hypertuned Doomguy,Sanguinia posted:Unless it's written as a footnote in some lore book or on a Triple Triad Card, I can't know if Gryne allowed this to be done to himself willingly or if Yotsuyu offered him up as a test subject because of his failures. there is unfortunately no information on his card that yields any insight. Characters tend to just have a quote, while monsters or Primals get the juicier details.
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Dec 10, 2022 22:44
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MonsterEnvy posted:On Yotsuyu being sold off, I assumed that her Mother was just lying in the flashback and is actually her mother not her aunt. That does seem like it would be in character.
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Dec 10, 2022 22:45
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Argas posted:WE GO TOGETHER is what I say when a Dragoon uses Dragon Sight on my BLM. Aetherial manipulation next to them, plop down my leylines. I understand why they took away the Do Your Best Beam (red tether) from Dragon Sight (pubbie panic), but I still miss it sometimes. Also a surreal (and despair inducing) moment when you get targeted for it as a healer AND it's the right call.
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