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Or when they're in the middle of a civil war, which tends to happen.
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Dec 10, 2022 19:37
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Mirello posted:lol, the 1.1.1 patch had to fix an issue where capitalists had no interest in politics, aka the industrial revolution, aka the entire political arc of the entire loving victorian era! lmfao this doesnt feel like maybe a bit of an overreaction? i roast this game's devs too for some Dumb Things but it's not that bad hahahha
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Dec 10, 2022 19:49
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I'm playing as Luxembourg and am in France' customs union. I want to become their protectorate because Prussia has begun trying to degrade our relationship. However when I mouse over "become protectorate" I just see -100 base reluctance and no other modifiers. How do I get France to want to protectorate me? e: Nevermind they had a civil war and the winner became domineering towards me and I became a protectorate that way. TTBF fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Dec 10, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 20:34
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Mirello posted:lol, the 1.1.1 patch had to fix an issue where capitalists had no interest in politics, aka the industrial revolution, aka the entire political arc of the entire loving victorian era! lmfao
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Dec 10, 2022 22:35
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I never touched the Victoria games because screen shot wise they are boooooooooooooring. I tried Vic 3 and it has been great fun but its true it isn't feature complete. Is Vic 2 a better experience right now? What are the biggest differences between the two? I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy it.
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Dec 10, 2022 23:16
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FalloutGod posted:I never touched the Victoria games because screen shot wise they are boooooooooooooring. I tried Vic 3 and it has been great fun but its true it isn't feature complete. Is Vic 2 a better experience right now? What are the biggest differences between the two? I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy it. Victoria 2 is at least as much of a mess as Victoria 3, just a different kind of mess. As in the global economy functionally stops working if China modernizes, or the bit where capitalists in many economic systems, especially laissez-faire, are free to decide what factories to build themselves and will build the stupidest, least profitable kinds of factories imaginable on a regular basis and you can't do anything about it in laissez-faire, or how the best way to promote social reform is to furiously oppress people whenever an event comes up to encourage people to radicalize and support the movement you're suppressing, all in a UI that's even MORE unfriendly and obtuse than V3's, and bounded by a restrictive event system that tries to force out history as it happened instead of full sandboxing. For a V2 veteran I can see reasons why someone might prefer V2 to V3, but for a completely new player I have few good reasons to suggest that people pick up V2 unless they're so groggy they like playing war games set in North Africa where you need to allocate extra water rations for Italian forces so they can boil pasta..
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Dec 10, 2022 23:41
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victoria 2 delivers better flavor for a small subset of nations that's it, that's pretty much the only reason to go back and i think this is probably even an overstatement considering v2 is regularly played with community mods that add a lot of that flavor in the first place
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Dec 10, 2022 23:44
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Vicky 3 is a way more fun base with infinitely more potential for..everything, including modding, going forward. I say this as a big Vicky 2 fan who put thousands of hours into it, it's just not worth going back. The added flavor stuff from mods is neat but not that neat.
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Dec 10, 2022 23:48
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FalloutGod posted:I never touched the Victoria games because screen shot wise they are boooooooooooooring. I tried Vic 3 and it has been great fun but its true it isn't feature complete. Is Vic 2 a better experience right now? What are the biggest differences between the two? I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy it. Victoria 1 is a lot more like V3. It is by far the ugliest and poorly documented but I still enjoy it. Vicky II is a big difference from both. The economy and trade are heavily automated, and a lot of its features aren't intuitive. If you like moving armies around it has fairly well developed military mechanics, but the UI is insanely bad.
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Dec 10, 2022 23:54
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I think Victoria: Revolutions (which is Victoria 1's expansion) is better than Victoria 2. Loved splitting pops.
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Dec 11, 2022 02:47
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Can I view my states sorted by unemployed? The "peasants" column in the building expansion menu really seems like it should be "peasants + unemployed" doesn't it?
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Dec 11, 2022 03:22
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Vichan posted:When one gaming journalist complained about this some 'fans' sent them images on Twitter which induced an epileptic seizure. Capital G Gamers are the worst. cool av posted:Can I view my states sorted by unemployed? The "peasants" column in the building expansion menu really seems like it should be "peasants + unemployed" doesn't it? There's a mod for that. I'd link it but I'm on my phone. It's very, very good Arrath fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Dec 11, 2022 |
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Dec 11, 2022 03:36
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Victoria 1 is a lot more like V3. It is by far the ugliest and poorly documented but I still enjoy it. One big difference with Vicky 3 from both of its predecessors is the pop system. Paradox made a big deal about how there are pops in its early marketing, and the population simulation is pretty decent, but it all feels pushed back in terms of importance. By that, I mean the pop system is rarely actually surfaced in a way that brings the changes happening inside your country to your attention. In Vicky 1, pops are one of the main ways you interact with the game. You see them when interacting with many of the game's systems, and you're always seeing their consciousness and militancy values and poo poo. And you have these moments where you're just like, oh, these people over here are communist now. Maybe they're going to try to start a revolution. In Vicky 3, interest groups have been brought in as an intermediary layer that becomes the face of all this stuff, and the pop system now mostly works behind the scenes to drive the other game's systems. You can peek under the hood to see what your population is doing, but you have no way to directly interact with them. I get why it's like this—Vicky 1's pop management system is infamously tedious—but I'd like to see them surface what's happening with your actual population more frequently rather than abstracting everything through IGs.
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Dec 11, 2022 03:41
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Victoria 2 has the benefit of 10+ years of modding experience in the community. I like GFM for example which has flavor for lots of countries and balances out a lot of the quirky aspects of Vicky with events and stuff.
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Dec 11, 2022 04:16
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Vicky 2 without expansions is unplayable. Vicky 2 with expansions but without mods is just bad. At least Vicky 3 functions without either.
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Dec 11, 2022 04:55
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Hellioning posted:Vicky 2 without expansions is unplayable. Vicky 2 with expansions but without mods is just bad.
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Dec 11, 2022 06:51
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It's been out for what, one month? It takes a paradox game like two years minimum to hit its stride.
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Dec 11, 2022 07:01
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Given the Paradox model, mods should always be part of the equation. If I'm looking for something that's a meaningful step up from the previous version, or close to but also mechanically innovative enough to provide interest that way, I'm comparing it to what's possible through modding for the previous version - not the unmodded experience. And in that regard, V3 still doesn't sound like it measures up, having some major issues still and being too in flux for modders to truly want to overhaul it enough to deal with that poo poo themselves. no, victoria 2 was never a good game. ricky was always more fun, it was just too much of a pain in the rear end, and folks suffered through bc nothing is quite like ricky/victoria 2. except, now, victoria 3.
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Dec 11, 2022 07:25
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Given the Paradox model, mods should always be part of the equation. If I'm looking for something that's a meaningful step up from the previous version, or close to but also mechanically innovative enough to provide interest that way, I'm comparing it to what's possible through modding for the previous version - not the unmodded experience. And in that regard, V3 still doesn't sound like it measures up, having some major issues still and being too in flux for modders to truly want to overhaul it enough to deal with that poo poo themselves. Okay, if you want to compare a game that has been 'in development' for over a decade to one that has just come out I guess I can't stop you.
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Dec 11, 2022 07:47
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Hellioning posted:Okay, if you want to compare a game that has been 'in development' for over a decade to one that has just come out I guess I can't stop you. i disagree with them too but this is dumb!! i dont think saying "we should expect victoria 3 to be worse than victoria 2 for a long time" is a thing anyone would ever say about any other game company's game's
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Dec 11, 2022 07:58
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Eh, warhammer TW started off with less content than Rome 2 at the stage that it did. Its the nature of modern game development.
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Dec 11, 2022 08:29
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Waifu Radia posted:i disagree with them too but this is dumb!! i dont think saying "we should expect victoria 3 to be worse than victoria 2 for a long time" is a thing anyone would ever say about any other game company's game's I dunno if that's entirely apples to apples. "A game on release, unmodded, should be better than the previous game with 10+ years worth of mods catering to the specific tastes of the fans who've been sticking with said game for 10+ years" doesn't seem like it'll ever go quite in favor of the new release, at least for the diehard fans. It's not just a matter of "good game" vs "bad game" - the very nature of mods means that they're specifically appealing to a particular subset of the general population that brought the game game, and for those who enjoy those mods a game intended to appeal to the general population and provide a base for modding is going to have an uphill struggle at best matching up the old, comfortable groove that's already been worn in. Like at the most basic level if you mostly play Stellaris for the Star Trek mod, a hypothetical Stellaris 2 isn't going to hold much appeal for you however good other people think it is until and unless the devs for the Star Trek mod develop a new mod for the game that comes somewhere close to matching the content of the original Stellaris Trek mod.
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Dec 11, 2022 08:43
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Tomn posted:I dunno if that's entirely apples to apples. "A game on release, unmodded, should be better than the previous game with 10+ years worth of mods catering to the specific tastes of the fans who've been sticking with said game for 10+ years" doesn't seem like it'll ever go quite in favor of the new release, at least for the diehard fans. It's not just a matter of "good game" vs "bad game" - the very nature of mods means that they're specifically appealing to a particular subset of the general population that brought the game game, and for those who enjoy those mods a game intended to appeal to the general population and provide a base for modding is going to have an uphill struggle at best matching up the old, comfortable groove that's already been worn in. Yeah, you're right, there's some nuance there. I just don't think the comparison being used "victoria 2 in over a decade of dev vs. vicky 3 just released" is useful either.
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Dec 11, 2022 10:05
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Waifu Radia posted:Yeah, you're right, there's some nuance there. I just don't think the comparison being used "victoria 2 in over a decade of dev vs. vicky 3 just released" is useful either. The contrast I'd make would be with the transition from EU3 to EU4. EU4 was in most ways worse than EU3 in the areas that I had valued mods for, but the overall increase in quality still made the game almost as good right out of the gate. The remaining push to play EU4 instead then came from the novelty of the new iteration, which made EU4 more interesting despite its flaws/reduced content. Tankbuster posted:Eh, warhammer TW started off with less content than Rome 2 at the stage that it did. Its the nature of modern game development.
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Dec 11, 2022 10:33
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Why not? We're talking about whether someone would want to play a game in its present state, not how much potential there is. From what people have described, there's plenty of the latter, it's just very under baked for my liking - and the things people seem most hyped about are not the kind of thing I find interesting enough to tide me over while I wait for the rest to get fixed. And again I would emphasize this is not a meaningful comparison. There are people who played a deeply modded EU3 and did not care for the newer and different and more engaging mechanics EU4 (proposed to) offer at launch, and more power to them. But that is not going to be the majority of Paradox game buyers or players, who, by Paradox's own stats, don't play modded - and for folks who enjoy the game design and meaningful decision arc, ends up making us bitterly disappointed when people handwave away issues with Victoria 3 right now with "well it just came out, why would Paradox have been honest about their design decisions". But if a hyper modded Victoria 2 scratches more of an itch than the strong parts of what people describe about Victoria 3 for anyone, again more power to them, it is just a different experience. But a completely fair one to compare.
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Dec 11, 2022 10:44
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I do unironically miss an enormous window with a mini Wikipedia article popping up to celebrate the invention of the saxophone or w/e
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Dec 11, 2022 10:58
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I exist here and now and when I look at two games I chose the one I like more. I don't care how many years of development they had, I don't care about budgets, team sizes, and so on. It's a demagoguery to bring up those things as if in the end it means something. If someone likes playing these old games with mods then fine. 99% of mods I've seen are making these broken barely working games even more broken, and apart from Anbennar no one compensated this for me. I'm bad at convincing myself I'm actually having a good time because of the potential, grand ideas and the fact that it's free so I have to forgive UI and writing worse than Harry Potter fan fiction opened in 90s IDE. Victoria 3 is at the moment not something I'd want to play but it's mostly about bug fixes at the moment. Victoria 2 for me was always a game that stops being interesting the moment you understand how to play it and Victoria 3 is definitely not that so I'm eagerly waiting for a next bug fix patch before they start introducing new mechanics and turn this game into an eternal alpha by reworking the mechanics for the sake of reworking mechanics.
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Dec 11, 2022 11:36
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I love(d) Victoria 2, especially with mods that add flavour and events, but there's very little game to it. It's a well trodden cliche that nobody understands how the economy works, but despite the apparent complexity it's trivial to "solve" your country's economy in the first five years and never need to look at the industry screen again. 3 does have a problem with your investment pool and building capacity hitting critical mass at which point economic decisions matter less, but even at that stage there's still an order of magnitude more strategic thinking required than in 2. Similarly, it's too easy to satisfy your people and get the good laws in 3 - but compared to 2, the interest group and law system is miles beyond 2's basic party and militancy mechanics. These are core systems that were unmoddable in 2, so even after a decade they were just as barebones and uninteresting as on release.The Narrator posted:I do unironically miss an enormous window with a mini Wikipedia article popping up to celebrate the invention of the saxophone or w/e Same, there needs to be more flavour text - production methods and laws would be perfect for a big chunk of encyclopedia copy paste
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Dec 11, 2022 11:53
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NEWS. PAPERS.
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Dec 11, 2022 12:01
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BBJoey posted:Same, there needs to be more flavour text - production methods and laws would be perfect for a big chunk of encyclopedia copy paste This is true for all Paradox GSGs. They improve on it sometimes, like both EU4 and Victoria 3 have introductory texts and events based on where you are. But a lot of it delegated to some rare events telling you "at this time in many countries some stuff happened from time to time, so here's your dillema about I dunno city rights". Or in Victoria 2 it gave you a short biography of some dude in a discovery window and you either stop everything you're doing and read it here and now or it's gone till your next game. But this is historical flavor, not Dark Souls lore, it should be presented in a more obvious way. Like maybe I've read 10% of Civilopedia in any Civ or Total War game but I always appreciated it being there. It's a lot of additional text that is probably hard to localize as you'll have to constantly check Wikipedia to know if the seven years war called a French-Indian War in your language, but I think it would help a lot with the immersion.
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Dec 11, 2022 12:06
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I just got the worldwide pandemic event chain for the first time. I like how it has some teeth (+50% mortality and it spreads from state to state pretty quickly) and sticks around for a while. It really stressed out the AI in my game. I could see the disease outbreak icons everywhere after a point and the worldwide population curve took a brief nosedive. Annoying to have to keep interacting with it every six months though. I've run into the legitimacy issue throughout this game, but when I've noticed radicals spiking despite high/max legitimacy I've had pretty good luck just pulling groups into/out of govt until it "wakes up" and seems to fix itself. Only had to mess with it a few times.
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Dec 11, 2022 13:36
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The Narrator posted:I do unironically miss an enormous window with a mini Wikipedia article popping up to celebrate the invention of the saxophone or w/e Some of the long descriptions I wrote for techs that didn't make the cut are still in the game files if you want to know the difference between Hydraulic Forging Presses and Steam Hammers! \Victoria 3\game\localization\english\inventions_l_english.yml edit: oh yeah and a stupid Mary Poppins reference! # savings_banks_desc: "The middle-class is growing larger and wealthier thanks to education and a strong work ethic. Many individuals wish to be part of railways through Africa; dams across the Nile; fleets of ocean Greyhounds; majestic, self-amortizing canals; plantations of ripening tea; all from tuppence prudently, fruitfully, frugally invested (to be specific) in the Dawes-Tomes-Mousely-Grubbs Fidelity Fiduciary Bank." Enjoy fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Dec 11, 2022 |
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Dec 11, 2022 13:59
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Enjoy posted:Some of the long descriptions I wrote for techs that didn't make the cut are still in the game files if you want to know the difference between Hydraulic Forging Presses and Steam Hammers! i hope this gets in somehow
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Dec 11, 2022 17:33
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cool av posted:Can I view my states sorted by unemployed? The "peasants" column in the building expansion menu really seems like it should be "peasants + unemployed" doesn't it? Seconding this. This game really needs an unemployed map-mode. They also need to fiddle with either the AI to switch over to steamships, or alter your production option to make even more military vessels and less steamships, because hot drat does every game of mine end up with having to subsidize all my shipyards while they churn out thousands of steamers no one will ever buy. That said I really like this game. It's certainly the "meatiest" initial paradox release in a while. Lots to fiddle around with and have fun with. I still play CK2 over CK3 because CK3 remains a game with a lot of potential but not as much to do. I've stopped playing Vicky 2 because this, despite the bugs and lack of flavor for individual nations, feels like a definite step up instead of a sequel that might eclipse its predecessor after 5 years and a bunch of dlc later.
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Dec 11, 2022 19:48
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Enjoy posted:Some of the long descriptions I wrote for techs that didn't make the cut are still in the game files if you want to know the difference between Hydraulic Forging Presses and Steam Hammers! if this doesnt get in its proof vicky 3 has Failed Us
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Dec 11, 2022 19:57
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I'm pretty positive about this game, but one thing i cannot deny; the event loc is generally atrocious. It seems to be going for an 'overwritten' nineteenth century style but as executed by someone that's never actually engaged with that material.
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Dec 11, 2022 20:41
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BigRoman posted:It's certainly the "meatiest" initial paradox release in a while. Lots to fiddle around with and have fun with. . I don't get this at all, its the opposite for me, the whole game seems too based around clicking on the HOI4 production menu to build more stuff to make more stuff to build stuff. Every game I've played has gone pretty much the same way until I hit the point it becomes unplayably slow. It really does seem like an idle game I can't close (I quite like idle games though) What other things are there to do? War and colonization seems pretty half baked
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Dec 11, 2022 21:00
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Yes, the building stuff to make more stuff is the intended game cycle.
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Dec 11, 2022 21:20
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Communist Thoughts posted:What other things are there to do? War and colonization seems pretty half baked Break the power of the landowners and church to put in the laws necessary to bring a communist utopia. You shoulda thought of that.
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Dec 11, 2022 21:43
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 02:26 |
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war is still fun even though it's half-baked. just spend your infamy as it decays and you'll have plenty to do other than building stuff most of the time. sitting and building can be an effective way to play but if it's boring then go stir up some trouble
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Dec 11, 2022 21:49
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