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Quorum posted:Aw Christ that's loving dire. Here, I'll pull the relevant image out (although the video is good): I'm taking Un-Wonder, because what the hell does "I don't like people to socially wonder about others" even mean? "I don't like it when people gossip"? Yes, I do in fact hate that. It's really rude.
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Dec 10, 2022 08:35
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mystes fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Dec 11, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 11:03
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Reminds me of a lot of kids' cartoons of the 80s where the message (enforced strongly by the networks) was CONFORM. CONFORM TO THE GROUP. 'The complainer is always wrong' is how the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon writers explained it. Like, you can give the message of 'we are all different and should try to get along together and enjoy our differences' without giving the message of 'we are all different and that's bad, everyone be more like The Leader Kid and stop being so peculiar' but cartoons back then could not manage it. I watched so much of the loving Get-Along Gang.
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Dec 10, 2022 12:23
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HopperUK posted:Reminds me of a lot of kids' cartoons of the 80s where the message (enforced strongly by the networks) was CONFORM. CONFORM TO THE GROUP.
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Dec 10, 2022 15:57
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Does anybody else feel like you got worse after getting diagnosed? I think it's just that I'm more aware of what stresses me out and notice it instead of powering through, but at the same time I can't shake this feeling that I was able to handle this just fine last year, so what's the problem now?
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Dec 11, 2022 21:50
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I didn't find I was getting worse, I just found I was holding back symptoms less. My wife has noticed I've been stimming a lot more at home because it genuinely gives me a physical, emotional and mental boost. I found processing some things harder, but mostly because I was still adjusting to my new limits. After breaking through the initial weirdness I found it easier to deal with things overall. But it was a little harder for a while I guess.
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Dec 11, 2022 23:01
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That's good to know. If it's just me actually learning my limits instead of pushing past them all the time, that should be a good thing and help in the long run. Still frustrating that it feels like I've handled going to the supermarket just fine before, but now it's suddenly becoming A Problem.
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Dec 12, 2022 06:51
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mystes fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 12, 2022 08:16
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I don't remember seeing anything you'd need to apologize for, but I hope you'll feel better soon.
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Dec 12, 2022 09:14
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mystes fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 12, 2022 09:29
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Be well and stay safe, friend.
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Dec 12, 2022 11:36
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Cloacamazing! posted:Still frustrating that it feels like I've handled going to the supermarket just fine before, but now it's suddenly becoming A Problem. There were a lot of things I was failing at and feeling anxious, stressed and depressed all the time before diagnosis. I would be in a situation that I couldn't handle and think "God, why am I such a piece of poo poo? Why do I always do this?" For example, I avoided a lot of socialisation because some socialising blew up in my face, so that ended up bleeding over to a generalised social anxiety. Which ironically helped cover up the actual problem. I never linked it to the situations that caused the problems, I just felt like someone that was constantly loving things up, so I approached everything with that mindset. Now that I know what the issue is, I can steel myself before going into those situations, I can be extra forgiving when I get it wrong, and I know why it's happening. Conversely, now that I know what the problem is, it makes me more confident in situations where its not a problem, instead of having a generalised "oh god I'm so bad at everything" funk. Changing my thought pattern from "why does this keep happening" to "oh, that's why this keeps happening" has done wonders for my mental health. And yeah, the upshot of it is that at first, you think "this is ridiculous, I could handle this before" when in fact you couldn't handle it before; you just never realised because you were so used to randomly being stressed and failing and covering it up, you never made the connection.
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Dec 12, 2022 15:50
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Since my diagnosis two years ago I realise I avoid social interaction not purely because I suck at them but mostly because it cost me so much energy to think about. I mean very simple interaction like avoiding someone I vagely know while doing groceries. I now realise I don't do that because I am terrible at small talk (I can manage if it doesn't take too long and it can even be fun if I feel like coming over as slick and witty lol) but because the energy drain that is the entire process of acting like a pleasant and interested person and mostly the aftermath of ruminating on the encounter evaluating the entire conversation including the non verbal signals we both send out. It's so goddamn draining and I really don't want to spend afterward time thinking of futile chitchat with some dude I knew from elementary school.
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Dec 12, 2022 16:40
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A friend of mine ("Jane") recently was employed at a place that helps autistic college folk succeed academically. It's kind of like a dorm, and Jane's experience with autistic people -- in particular those whose traits manifest a bit more strongly and those who need a bit more help -- is really limited. So is mine, ha. She's been learning a lot about autism and she shares her newfound knowledge with me, and thus I'm also learning more about it. Recently she read something that she didn't fully understand and asked for my input on it. What she read was this: For autistic people, an unexpected event is akin to 9/11. Now, I think comparing an unexpected event to 9/11 is quite hyperbolic, but there is an element in that that I relate to really intensely, and is actually such an issue that it really governs so much of my day, my life, my interactions with others. (I hope I haven't already brought this up in this thread; this is an ongoing problem but I'm learning more about myself) In real life I'm probably one of the most pessimistic and cynical persons you would meet. I just *cannot* take another disappointment. Like, if a bus is set to arrive at a specific time, I need to make absolutely sure that I expect it to be late. If it's on time, then I end up pleasantly surprised, and if it's late, then it just meets my expectations. But if I expect or depend on it being on time, and it isn't, it really hits me in an incredible intense way. I feel stupid for setting my expectations so high. I feel like a real loving idiot for being so loving naive. This example with a bus is a simple one; the effects and consequences are so much more intense when it comes to people. I have almost no capacity to trust people at all. Part of this has to do with lovely childhood stuff, but largely my distrust of people comes down to the inherent unreliability of people. I have no ability to gauge a person's sincerity or trustworthiness; not because everybody is automatically a bad person, but we're humans and we're driven by selfish human instincts. I have a few close friends who have never, not a single time let me down, or caused me harm, or wished me harm, or tried to manipulate me or abuse me or anything, and yet, I trust them no more than I would anyone else. In fact, I find the least trustworthy people the easiest to be around because I'm never tricked into giving them any expectations higher than they will meet. I wish I didn't exist as this constantly miserable Oscar the Grouch character, but I don't know what else I can do. I honestly feel that if you ("you" being "anyone") are ever disappointed, this is a flaw in your thinking. The only reason disappointment occurs is because your expectations are not met, and so logically that tells me your expectations are the problem. This has been a little bit of a meandering thinking-aloud kind of thing, but when Jane asked me about that, my first thought was "that's silly," to "well, that's hyperbolic but there's some truth to it" to "gently caress, every unexpected event is like a 9/11 happening." I am happy to learn I am not alone in that -- I must not be, if this trait appears in a book -- but I also don't know where to go from here. Can I learn to endure disappointment? Because raising my expectations will result in disappointment, that's just logical, there's no avoiding it. Life happens, people are people. But to even for a moment consider working toward becoming someone less pessimistic is like... it feels like taking off a hazmat suit before walking into a radioactive building. Like, I'll be more comfortable, but I absolutely will get radiation poisoning, so why would I ever even bother?
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Dec 13, 2022 20:15
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Stoca Zola posted:What kind of academia/studies are you involved in, and how flexible are your options? Hmm well I have an associates degree that I was hoping to round out into a solid Bachelor's if possible; I'll have to do research to see if that's doable with my current setup, or if I'd have to make a clean 4-year go where I could transfer some credits, etc. Cloacamazing! posted:Have you tried to figure out how you retain information best? I have a way better auditory memory, so I studied by reading things out loud or saying them in my head, which helped a lot. We're usually only taught visual learning at school, so if that's not your thing, this might help. Honestly the only way I retain info best is by blunt forcing it in; just a whole lot of extra studying with heavy assistance from others back in my grade school years before I could score somewhat well. That being said, I had no earthly clue that THIS was the reason why I had issues, had already completed my education period into career years before having that Dawning of Awareness. I'm sure I could be much more successful if I made another attempt at it, but the advice given to me by an assessment was to have a rock-solid study curriculum ironed out BEFORE I go to school, as any attempt to build one in-the-moment during education will produce little results. So I'd need to learn how to 'practice' studying on my own, with a study method that works, for the sole reason of seeing how much I could retain in a certain period of time. One idea I could do is just.........study a bunch of random things in my free time, then practice taking tests for them? I'm gonna see if there are some methods I can research that might help me, talk with one of my friends to see if he has any advice, I think he's pretty good at it I hear. Best success I've had was to prep way ahead of time, sometimes making said subject's study period integrated into my weekly schedule to make it automated for me. Haven't done it in a long time, might have to try again, see what works and what doesn't.
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Dec 13, 2022 21:03
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Equating an unexpected event to 9/11 is an interesting take, but that is an overbroad generalisation if I've ever seen one. I'm not at your level of general negativity, but I do think people in general are amoral, and the just world hypothesis most of them have going on in spite of that I just don't see reflected in reality.
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Dec 13, 2022 21:06
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The way I've heard that before is that for an autistic person, there is no such thing as a pleasant surprise. I think that's a better phrasing.
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Dec 13, 2022 21:32
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9/11 may be overstating it, but I do resonate with the aspect that anything unexpected or out of the ordinary, even minor, tends to be a whole thing that dominates my attention entirely until it's done with. Take something as simple as a family member announcing they'll be dropping by for some coffee in a few days' time. On the face of it, it should be a simple thing: They show up sometime, we sit down, have coffee, talk for an hour or so, they leave. Rationally, that's just a small thing taking up like 1/16th of one day, so it really shouldn't take up much more mental space than that. But in practice, that day is now Coffee With Family Day. That day coming up will be the first thing on my mind every morning for like a week beforehand. The day of, that will be the One Thing that the entire day is about. Even after the event itself, I'll still be kinda off-balance and have difficulty getting back into regular routine. A simple activity taking one hour to complete will easily occupy my attention for like 10+ hours total.
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Dec 13, 2022 23:09
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I'm just going to approach this point, because it was such a huge revelation for me:credburn posted:I have almost no capacity to trust people at all. Part of this has to do with lovely childhood stuff, but largely my distrust of people comes down to the inherent unreliability of people. I have no ability to gauge a person's sincerity or trustworthiness; not because everybody is automatically a bad person, but we're humans and we're driven by selfish human instincts. quote:I have no ability to gauge a person's sincerity or trustworthiness; As I've internalised that thought more, I've started to accept that doesn't mean I can't socialise, it just means I have to be more selective about who I socialise with and how. Once I internalised that and accepted it as part of myself, it made so many things so much easier! It also made it easier to look back through my life that I wasn't a failure or a weirdo at school; it couldn't have gone any other way because I had a literal disability that impairs my ability to get a read on other people. Realising this was a really important step in regaining control of my mental health, and it really helped me overcome some of the feelings you've mentioned, so I hope it helps you too.
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Dec 13, 2022 23:24
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ultrafilter posted:The way I've heard that before is that for an autistic person, there is no such thing as a pleasant surprise. I think that's a better phrasing. Hm I think even this is overgeneralising. I can have pleasant surprises, but my brain does still like, catch on the sudden change and have to keep repeatedly poking at the sudden change to schedule even if it's a good thing. I've just had a really good example of this happen, actually. This morning I was originally meant to get into the office early because I had a tribunal hearing at 8am. Yesterday I found out that the hearing had been cancelled because the tribunal was going to make a decision in my client's favour just based on the paperwork we'd submitted. This was great news, and I've been genuinely excited and happy about this. I've also found myself absolutely unable to shut up about it all of yesterday, even feeling the need to tell coworkers repeatedly hey my hearing got cancelled! Yay! I don't have to be in the office early tomorrow! And even this morning I was still going on about it to my partner. So it's like, the surprise change to schedule is undeniably good, but my brain still has a hard time adjusting to it and keep suddenly remembering it and being pleased by it all over again almost as if I just found out again, because it was going to be one thing but now it's *another* thing! How exciting!! I have some thoughts about the trying to avoid disappointment thing but I'm still sort of mulling over in my head how it affects me.
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Dec 14, 2022 02:12
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credburn posted:In real life I'm probably one of the most pessimistic and cynical persons you would meet. I just *cannot* take another disappointment. Like, if a bus is set to arrive at a specific time, I need to make absolutely sure that I expect it to be late. If it's on time, then I end up pleasantly surprised, and if it's late, then it just meets my expectations. But if I expect or depend on it being on time, and it isn't, it really hits me in an incredible intense way. I feel stupid for setting my expectations so high. I feel like a real loving idiot for being so loving naive. This example with a bus is a simple one; the effects and consequences are so much more intense when it comes to people. I don't do this with small stuff like the bus - I mean, assuming public transit won't be on time is just general knowledge, but I plan around that, and as long as I'm familiar with my route it won't make me anxious. I do panic if I'm late for an appointment and not familiar enough with the route to have some backup plans. I'm not making the case I think I'm making. I definitely know this feeling for bigger, more important things. It's just easier to mentally prepare yourself for it not working as you want it to. I've had some pretty serious disappointments in the past years, and it hurts, especially when it feels like things just go effortlessly right for the people around you, and when I'm not prepared for it, it's easy to spiral into this thought process that of course it wasn't going to work, what did I expect, nothing ever works for me, nothing good ever happens to me. Not sure if this stuff works for other people's brains, but like most people here I've always worked very well with rules, and I've learned to make up rules for myself to deal with situations like this. For example, when I moved to another city for college, I knew I would have to throw myself into social situations if I wanted any kind of social contact, so I made a rule to accept people's invitations (with a group of sub-rules for when I didn't have to). Some good came out of it, some bad. All in all, I think it was a good choice. I've also made it a rule that while I'm allowed to dampen my expectations, I'm not allowed to completely set them up for disappointment. My husband and I are in the process of buying a house, and while I made plans for us not getting the house we both fell in love with, they were more along the lines of "This other house we looked at was really nice too, and with a bit of work I could see us be happy there as well, so it won't be a complete catastrophe if we don't get this house, even though we really want it." and not "We will never get the bank's approval, and even if we do someone else will already have bought the house anyway.". (We did get the house, and we even got to keep the really cool old-fashioned desk I spotted when we looked at it, so the strategy paid off.) quote:I have almost no capacity to trust people at all. Part of this has to do with lovely childhood stuff, but largely my distrust of people comes down to the inherent unreliability of people. I have no ability to gauge a person's sincerity or trustworthiness; not because everybody is automatically a bad person, but we're humans and we're driven by selfish human instincts. I have a few close friends who have never, not a single time let me down, or caused me harm, or wished me harm, or tried to manipulate me or abuse me or anything, and yet, I trust them no more than I would anyone else. In fact, I find the least trustworthy people the easiest to be around because I'm never tricked into giving them any expectations higher than they will meet. Yeah, that. At some point, every single person I am on friendly terms with will realize that I am Wrong and Bad and abandon me. This belief is completely ingrained into me. I try to ignore it, but with an entire childhood full of counter examples, that's not an easy feat. My family is there because they are my family, which means they can't abandon me even if I'm Wrong. My husband seems trustworthy enough, but eventually he'll notice too. So will everybody else. Again, on a good day I know that this is objectively speaking not true, but actions speak louder than words, and years of friends abandoning me for being weird and wrong screams way too loud for me to even hear the lame "Well, it's probably not going to happen with these people", which is all I can produce. Perestroika posted:9/11 may be overstating it, but I do resonate with the aspect that anything unexpected or out of the ordinary, even minor, tends to be a whole thing that dominates my attention entirely until it's done with. Take something as simple as a family member announcing they'll be dropping by for some coffee in a few days' time. On the face of it, it should be a simple thing: They show up sometime, we sit down, have coffee, talk for an hour or so, they leave. Rationally, that's just a small thing taking up like 1/16th of one day, so it really shouldn't take up much more mental space than that. And another hell yes. This Friday is The Day Where My Brother In Law And His New Girlfriend Come Over So We Can Play Board Games In The Evening. This sounds entirely harmless and not something that should require one and a half weeks of mental preparation, but here we are. What should we cook? Does she like chili? Are we sure she likes chili? Did my husband ask his brother if she likes chili? Do we have the right boardgames? I still need to bake for Christmas that weekend, can I fit that into the schedule?
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Dec 14, 2022 07:21
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Quorum posted:Aw Christ that's loving dire. Here, I'll pull the relevant image out (although the video is good): I'm surprised they don't have one like "Magnifying Mike" or something like that, as I've constantly pointed out mistakes or asked about very minute things that make zero difference. I'm sitting here looking at s presentation someone shared, and I'm looking for spelling/grammatical errors rather than trying to understand their point.
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Dec 14, 2022 17:30
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Does anyone else know how to rebuild your overstimulation tolerance? I find that I can barely get through a social event without Noise becoming overwhelming. I think part of it has to do with Covid setting me back socially. It isn't the loudness more like background noise if that makes sense.
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Dec 15, 2022 22:50
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I found a way to do it but TBH I don't know if it would solve the issue from your end, it might be too specific! 😅
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Dec 15, 2022 23:27
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White Light posted:I found a way to do it but TBH I don't know if it would solve the issue from your end, it might be too specific! 😅 Go on.
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Dec 15, 2022 23:50
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Violet_Sky posted:Does anyone else know how to rebuild your overstimulation tolerance? I find that I can barely get through a social event without Noise becoming overwhelming. I think part of it has to do with Covid setting me back socially. It isn't the loudness more like background noise if that makes sense. If you figure it out let me know I’ve been a mess as the world gets back to normal lol
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Dec 16, 2022 00:27
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Lots of people seem to benefit from loop earplugs or similar, honestly that wouldn’t work for me because I don’t like the feeling of stuff being in my ears and I have a bad enough time processing what people are saying already without losing a bit of volume. I could be wrong, when I worked at the steel works I had a few different types of ear plug but that was to block as much sound as possible and everyone had the expectation of being deafened so it wasn’t awkward at all.
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Dec 16, 2022 04:45
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I've found that in general, taking breaks from the noise is a must. You can usually head outside for "a bit of fresh air" during social events without it seeming weird. If you smoke, or know people who smoke and don't mind hanging out with them, that's a good option too. For work social events I have actually started just saying "This is getting a bit much, I'm going back to my desk.", because, really, who's going to stop me from doing my job? I stay as long as I can handle it, then leave. I haven't told anybody about my diagnosis, but have brought up that I'm a bit sensitive to loud noises and lots of background noise in general. Something else that seems to help, obviously not during social events, is shutting off some sensory input. I suppose it's like wearing earplugs. One of my major problems right now is that to get to the office, I need to walk along several main streets after dark. There's the noise from the cars of course, and then there's the hundreds of bright and flashing lights. It's only getting worse as Christmas draws nearer. That part gets easier when I block out the sound with headphones and music. The noise in the train gets bearable when I close my eyes. Being behind a mask and foggy glasses is also good here.
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Dec 16, 2022 07:06
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Violet_Sky posted:Does anyone else know how to rebuild your overstimulation tolerance? I find that I can barely get through a social event without Noise becoming overwhelming. I think part of it has to do with Covid setting me back socially. It isn't the loudness more like background noise if that makes sense. This definitely makes sense by the way. Apparently other brains are capable of filtering out all the background noise and focussing on what they want to hear, which certainly explains to me how people can have conversations in loud restaurants or moving cars. If I'm in the backseat of a car and the radio is playing, I am not participating in the conversation at all, because I can't even hear it.
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Dec 16, 2022 07:08
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I have eyeball problems and can recommend wearing an orange eyeshade at night to cut down on intrusive glaring lights.
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Dec 16, 2022 12:13
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Violet_Sky posted:Go on. I go out to bars and draw in my sketchbook or tablet! I used to hate doing boring practice drills for art, and am very fearful of it because of my inner perfectionist complex! But I hate being out in public spaces even more socializing! So I decided to make the fears 'fight' each other and see which one wins out; looks like I'd rather draw in my sketchbook instead of socialize, and since I'd rather be anywhere else but here when I'm in that environment, I tend to gravitate immensely towards doodling, which has greatly enhanced my anatomy understanding because of this tactic  and then after a while of that trademark all-consuming focus that comes with my Aspie nature doing art drills, after maybe one drink I've started to relax more, have been chilling in a bar for long enough to ease up on that stress. The byproduct makes me far more sociable, and easier to converse wirh others, since I wore down that dominant fear using my lesser fear as a pickaxe to chisel it down from a mountain to a molehill. Sometimes I like to wear earbuds to help drown out the surrounding cacophony, and nobody really cares cause you're just sitting at a bar drinking and staring at a bunch of visual noise. Been doing it for a good year now and my social skills have jumped up tremendously from being in that cultural osmosis, it's handy! You will naturally pick up on a lot of nuanced social cues that you can use as training wheels on how to act in these settings and you won't even need anything explained to you, it will simply absorb into your mind. Participation trophy is all you need here baby 🎉 But if you don't draw then it probably won't be effective. I hope this helps! White Light fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 18:53
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Bank posted:I'm surprised they don't have one like "Magnifying Mike" or something like that, as I've constantly pointed out mistakes or asked about very minute things that make zero difference. I'm sitting here looking at s presentation someone shared, and I'm looking for spelling/grammatical errors rather than trying to understand their point. Because I know that misspellings and grammatical errors can be used for rhetorical purposes or as a joke, whenever I see a word used in an unfamiliar way (or outright incorrect way) or a word misspelled, or punctuation errors, my brain goes into a split where half of it is like, it's just an error, move along while the other half is screaming gently caress what are they trying to say by intentionally omitting that apostrophe? What do they mean when they spell that word that way? WHAT AM I MISSING
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Dec 17, 2022 14:39
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Cloacamazing! posted:This definitely makes sense by the way. Apparently other brains are capable of filtering out all the background noise and focussing on what they want to hear, which certainly explains to me how people can have conversations in loud restaurants or moving cars. If I'm in the backseat of a car and the radio is playing, I am not participating in the conversation at all, because I can't even hear it. Yeah, big same on that. I was on at a convention kinda thing for work a while back, and towards the evening there was an afterparty going on with music for socialising and networking. Everybody else clearly had no problem communicating, as they were all just standing around having regular conversations. But I just absolutely could not make out any words at all unless they were literally shouted into my ear. I had a bartender look me in the eyes, ask me a question, and I heard nothing but noise.
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Dec 17, 2022 20:12
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Perestroika posted:Yeah, big same on that. I was on at a convention kinda thing for work a while back, and towards the evening there was an afterparty going on with music for socialising and networking. Everybody else clearly had no problem communicating, as they were all just standing around having regular conversations. But I just absolutely could not make out any words at all unless they were literally shouted into my ear. I had a bartender look me in the eyes, ask me a question, and I heard nothing but noise. This is definitely me
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Dec 18, 2022 05:25
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Ah! I read an article about something called aphantasia, which they also referred to as Mind Blindness. I usually associate mind blindness with not being able to read social cues, but never thought it had anything to do with affecting visualizing mental images before. Is this a condition all us Aspies tend to share as a universal, or something that only effects a small percentage of those with this condition? Always helps to learn more about these things I find.
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Jan 1, 2023 20:54
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As far as I know those are unrelated. Aphantasia is about being unable to visualize things in your mind, autism is about being unable to understand social cues. I can easily do the first, the second takes lots of effort. It's also about sensory overload. Anybody else start the new year melting down because there had been nonstop fireworks since the 30th and it really needed to stop? They're still firing some leftovers now, but it looks like my neighbors are finally running out of explosives.
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Jan 1, 2023 21:34
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From what I've read aphantasia is more common among autistic people, but it's still only like 5% of autistic people
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Jan 1, 2023 21:48
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All my Decembers as an adult have just been stressful and it kind of goes to a crescendo as xmas and NYE approaches when there are just so many drat people in all the drat stores and now I got a ton of "social responsibilities" and I gotta buy people gifts and aaaaaaa and then when xmas hits I'm just out of batteries. I can't do social things anymore, then you get like a week break before NYE?!? Feels like I need to sleep for a drat month now. Doesn't help my siblings have kids now and I can't stand kids because the noise they make physically hurt me. Doesn't matter if it's laughing or crying, it hurts. Actually come to think of it there's even people whose talking voice just hurts me. And dogs barking. Man my ears suck.
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Jan 1, 2023 22:25
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organburner posted:All my Decembers as an adult have just been stressful and it kind of goes to a crescendo as xmas and NYE approaches when there are just so many drat people in all the drat stores and now I got a ton of "social responsibilities" and I gotta buy people gifts and aaaaaaa and then when xmas hits I'm just out of batteries. I can't do social things anymore, then you get like a week break before NYE?!? My xmas was pretty chill. For the first time in a long while I went to place where I could drink. (My grandparents don't drink alcohol) but I'm feeling burnt out socially though.
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Jan 2, 2023 01:13
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wife and I stayed in for xmas and new years, it was lovely
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Jan 2, 2023 01:18
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