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A Proper Uppercut posted:New machine day! Yay! What is it? Do you have an enormously oversized forklift to offload it? We keep a beast in the back that can move our grinders, it usually takes us longer to start it than it does to move equipment.
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Dec 9, 2022 13:41
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Makino U6, a bigger version of the Wire EDM we already have. And no way are we moving that ourselves, we always hire riggers. It's like 12000 pounds and we'd be responsible if we dropped it or something. We do have some big boy fork trucks though
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Dec 9, 2022 13:53
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Here it is parked next to its little brother.
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Dec 9, 2022 19:26
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I was running my 7x14 Chinese mini lathe with my head up my rear end and had a crash which took a tooth away from one of the M1 Z80 gears that control the feed when the half nuts are engaged. I've checked McMaster, Little Machine Shop, and Grizzly and can't find a replacement. The closest thing I've found is this pair of 90(20)/80 gears that replace the existing 80(20)/80 gears. This will slow down the feed rate a bit, and I'm perfectly fine with that, but they cost $40. If I can find a direct replacement for $5 or so, I'd rather go that route. https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1137&category=1 If I had a dividing head and a piece of round stock large enough, I might take a stab at making my own replacement gear, but I don't have those things. Another option I've considered that I do have the supplies for is using the non-broken gear to make a silicon mold and resin casting a replacement gear. I have some resin that is very imapact resistant, but I don't know how wear resistant it is. All that aside, anybody know where I can get an M1 Z80, 7mm thick with a 12mm bore 3mm keyed shaft gear for cheap? edit: I went ahead and ordered the gears from LMS. I'd still be interested in finding a source for cheap gears in case I break another one in the future. Skunkduster fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Dec 13, 2022 |
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Dec 13, 2022 01:17
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I'm TIG welding a36 for the first time and getting lots of pitting and inclusions, more than I'm used to with other materials. Is this the name of the game with hot rolled or am I doing something wrong? I'm brushing with a SS brush, acetone wipe down, gas flow is fine (2x cup size, not acting like it's not got enough or too much gas). Not back-purging but I'm doing T-shaped joints out of flat with a fillet on each side of the vertical leg. The second side is a little worse and looks like I'm getting scale/oxide build up after it gets hot from the first weld, which I've seen before with CRS but not to this degree. Do I need to change my prep to include grinding or sanding off the millscale before welding?
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Dec 13, 2022 02:21
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You've got to grind the mill scale off. Flap wheel or one of those 3m stripper wheels if you're fancy.
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Dec 13, 2022 05:25
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sharkytm posted:You've got to grind the mill scale off. Flap wheel or one of those 3m stripper wheels if you're fancy. Yeah the solution is this simple. Tig welding on mill scale sucks.
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Dec 13, 2022 08:10
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recommendations for entry level knee mills? don't care if it's old or whatever
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Dec 13, 2022 15:04
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Got room and a way to move a full size one? Or willing to pay a rigger? Then used from an auction. They can be dirt cheap if you're patient, but expensive to move. Would need budget and space constraints otherwise.
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Dec 13, 2022 15:20
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reasonably confident i have room - i'm redoing my shed, but it's like 30x15, and most of my stuff is small enough i can work around it if i need to. i'm not worried about moving anything unless it's, like, in a dirt basement with untreated wood stairs or something. makes or models that you'd recommend?
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Dec 13, 2022 15:40
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:reasonably confident i have room - i'm redoing my shed, but it's like 30x15, and most of my stuff is small enough i can work around it if i need to. i'm not worried about moving anything unless it's, like, in a dirt basement with untreated wood stairs or something. I don't think you understand the size and weight of a full sized knee mill. What's being suggested here is something like a 3,000 lb Bridgeport that is going to need a 10x10 space depending on table size and what kind of parts you're milling.
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Dec 13, 2022 16:04
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:recommendations for entry level knee mills? don't care if it's old or whatever Bridgeports are well regarded, you can still buy parts direct from Hardinge (but don't unless absolutely neccessary, it's $$$). I've also used Wells-Index knee mills (nice but expensive) as well as our Taiwanese Bridgeport knock off (JET) that is really a great machine. Deckel, Maho, Clausing, Cincinatti, are always great choices. A family member had a Grizzly lathe and mill and both were rough, the lathe was way worse than the mill, but it really makes the used market shine.
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Dec 13, 2022 16:06
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 We've got 3 at work you can have cheap if you're near southern Ohio. With cnc boxes. I think they're $5k each asking price. I can double check if you're interested. They're prototraks. These with older controls. https://www.southwesternindustries.com/products/knee-mills Can also vouch for jet and clausings. Also ohio area, https://www.thompsonauctioneers.com/ If you go auction they usually require you to use their riggers. Make sure to call them and get a quote before you bid. Usually purchased stuff has a very small window to be removed after the auction.
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Dec 13, 2022 16:29
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:i'm not worried about moving anything 
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Dec 13, 2022 16:36
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honda whisperer posted:
 I'm gonna be looking for this but in maybe 10 months from now. How often do these things go up for auction? I'm in the Detroit area, which I assume is a good place to buy old machine tools.
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Dec 13, 2022 17:25
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Rutibex posted:
Find the local auction companies, I've seen them post on Craigslist. Also check if there's a state gov auction service, I see a lot of equipment from schools/tech colleges and Muni garages go up for sale on the Wisconsin one.
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Dec 13, 2022 17:42
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:reasonably confident i have room - i'm redoing my shed, but it's like 30x15, and most of my stuff is small enough i can work around it if i need to. i'm not worried about moving anything unless it's, like, in a dirt basement with untreated wood stairs or something. Is your shed built on a concrete pad?
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Dec 13, 2022 17:55
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Rutibex posted:
Constantly if you're in an area like Detroit.
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Dec 13, 2022 17:58
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Leperflesh posted:Is your shed built on a concrete pad? it will be when I'm done, yes i manage a tree farm/excavation company so when i say i'm not worried about moving something heavy it's not because i'm going to try to tip it into the back of a Tacoma, I'm just reasonably confident i have some combination of equipment available that will be able to get a reasonably accessible machine loaded onto a trailer
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Dec 13, 2022 18:16
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OK excellent, yeah if you have adequate space, rigging and equipment, that's great. My take is to look out for a bridgeport because everyone knows them and parts are easier to come by, but I wouldn't eliminate other makers out of hand, it may take a bit of research to determine if any given random one has parts support but you can also maybe get a better deal on a brand with a bit less recognition?
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Dec 13, 2022 18:28
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:i manage a tree farm/excavation company so when i say i'm not worried about moving something heavy it's not because i'm going to try to tip it into the back of a Tacoma, I'm just reasonably confident i have some combination of equipment available that will be able to get a reasonably accessible machine loaded onto a trailer That's different then. If you buy from an auction you will probably need riggers anyway to remove it and load it on your trailer at a minimum. They're not going to let you pack it out unless you are actually a rigging business with appropriate liability insurance.
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Dec 13, 2022 18:58
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Yeah that'll work. What are you going to be making?
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Dec 13, 2022 21:20
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:it will be when I'm done, yes Good deal, you're way ahead of most people then. Apologies for assuming any less. Yoda will remain in place though, because moving those things frequently still sucks rear end even with good heavy equipment.
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Dec 13, 2022 22:27
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Flip the head over and stabilize it, center the ram, lock everything down, and fork pick it from the side under the ram with wood to protect it. That's how I moved my Bridgeport. Both onto and off the trailer. Thankfully the seller had a fork truck and so did I. If you're buying at auction, they'll require you to use their riggers and often list the prices. A low boy trailer makes it easier. For fine-tuning placement, a long pry bar and a couple of pieces of solid round bar help a lot. You'll need 3-phase power or a converter unless it's been converted already. Most of the motors aren't VFD rated, just FYI. There's a ton of good guides on how to buy a Bridgeport (or similar knee mill) online. Any machine with zerk fittings, make sure it's been oiled and not greased. If it's been greased, walk. These folks sell pretty much everything you'll need: https://machinerypartsdepot.com/ Their YouTube videos are great too.
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Dec 13, 2022 23:20
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Motronic posted:a rigging business with appropriate liability insurance. I loving love riggers. We sold an old Devlieg that was just enormous, it had a rotary table from Pratt and Whitney that was big enough to clamp a car to. It also had an elevator that would travel up and down with the spindle. I dreaded moving it, but the riggers showed up with a forklift big enough to move a small city, worked some magic, and it was perfectly loaded onto a couple of semi trailers. Like, arrive at 8am, truck is pulling away by lunch time. In contrast we sold an old beat up Cincinnati OD grinder on Craigslist to some rando for like $300. He asks us to load it, we are very clear that it is very, very, heavy. So he shows up with a Dodge Caravan (for the tooling) and a 6X8 trailer from Tractor Supply for the machine. We decline to load it on that trailer so he calls someone with a beat up mid 90's Powerstroke Ford pulling a flat bed. They rigged it with Walmart grade ratchet straps and bumbled down the road. No idea how they unloaded it, for all I know it's still on that trailer somewhere.
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Dec 14, 2022 00:00
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I have something I'm making that involves drilling holes in soft annealed copper tubing before bending and brazing it. Specifically, drilling 1/4" holes into 5/16" copper tubing. I made some soft jaws for a doweling jig to hold the tubing in place without crushing it, but now I'm finding that when I drill into it, the drill will skate along the surface, then suddenly self-feed and warp the poo poo out of the tubing. Is the problem the positive rake on the drill? Would a straight-flute drill do the trick? Or a drill bit made for plastic?
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Dec 14, 2022 01:21
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Try upping the rpm of the drill and lower pressure. If you're using a hand drill it can be tricky to not have that grabs and yanks thing happen. Would smaller bit then a unibit work? Anything that doesn't have a screw like flute shouldn't self feed.
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Dec 14, 2022 01:30
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Have you centre punched hole locations?
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Dec 14, 2022 01:47
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honda whisperer posted:
Is this a.. 3 axis (x,y,z) cnc machine for $5k? Like could you realistically CNC a custom head for a LS1 or whatever with something like this. Fusion 360 + billet aluminum + time = engine parts I was under the impression that used these were like $20k used with computer control? That seems like a lot of precision steel for barely the scrap value?
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Dec 14, 2022 01:51
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Hadlock posted:I was under the impression that used these were like $20k used with computer control? That seems like a lot of precision steel for barely the scrap value? It absolutely will be $20k by the time you get it home and functional unless you happen to be or own some of the poo poo you need to make this so.
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Dec 14, 2022 01:57
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Hadlock posted:Is this a.. 3 axis (x,y,z) cnc machine for $5k? Like could you realistically CNC a custom head for a LS1 or whatever with something like this. Fusion 360 + billet aluminum + time = engine parts I've been taking classes on these machines and I didn't know what an LS1 head looked like so I looked it up:  I almost fainted. Lol look at all those angles and stuff it would take a million years and 50 different setups if you wanted to turn chunks of aluminum into that. But maybe I'm just an idiot, that often happens Rutibex fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 14, 2022 02:02
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Rutibex posted:I almost fainted. Lol look at all those angles and stuff it would take a million years and 50 different setups if you wanted to turn chunks of aluminum into that. But maybe I'm just an idiot, that often happens What? No. Look at the finished faces. These are castings that get finished. Not billet.
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Dec 14, 2022 02:23
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Yeah that design is optimized for being cast and then milling the precision bits. Presumably there would be a design that's optimized for 3 axis cnc How much is a single CNC bit, like to mill that flat interface on the side of the head. I know there's basically an infinite variety of bits and quality
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Dec 14, 2022 02:26
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Motronic posted:What? No. Look at the finished faces. These are castings that get finished. Not billet.  I've been watching too many youtubes. I guess everything isn't made out of a solid cube of metal
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Dec 14, 2022 02:37
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Hadlock posted:Yeah that design is optimized for being cast and then milling the precision bits. Presumably there would be a design that's optimized for 3 axis cnc that is almost entirely a function of how long you want it to take and how much the time to stop the machine and replace worn tooling is worth to you. Something pedestrian like a 3/4" solid flute end mill, maybe $30-40 on the low end, something fancier like a indexable insert face mill that's wide enough to machine that whole surface in one pass you're looking at 6-1200 ish plus the inserts only limit is the sky
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Dec 14, 2022 02:37
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McSpergin posted:Have you centre punched hole locations? I've tried it with and without center punching, no real difference. The soft jaws are routed to the profile of the tubing so it doesn't deform, which might also be preventing the center punch from forming a flat that the drill bit can bite into. honda whisperer posted:Try upping the rpm of the drill and lower pressure. If you're using a hand drill it can be tricky to not have that grabs and yanks thing happen. Unfortunately I'm using a hand drill. I originally wanted to do this on the drill press, but I might need to bend before drilling, which would make the workpiece impossible to hold in the drill press vise. If this setup doesn't work out, I might try the drill press anyway. A pilot + a step drill was my original plan, but the doweling jig limits me to using a single-diameter drill bit. If this straight-flute bit doesn't work out, I will probably take a step back and do this in a drill press.
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Dec 14, 2022 02:39
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shame on an IGA posted:that is almost entirely a function of how long you want it to take and how much the time to stop the machine and replace worn tooling is worth to you. Something pedestrian like a 3/4" solid flute end mill, maybe $30-40 on the low end, something fancier like a indexable insert face mill that's wide enough to machine that whole surface in one pass you're looking at 6-1200 ish plus the inserts How much uptime on a CNC mill is practical for a 24/7 shop? I used to work in a print shop (as in printing things on paper) and I heard once expected average uptime of the equipment was about 66%. On that subject, we bought some huge printing press and they had to tear out the floor, dig out the dirt, and install a 6' thick concrete slab underneath to keep it stable. Are there similar requirements for larger machining equipment? I'm curious about EDM in particular. They are extremely high precision, but have very little rotational movement or vibration from what I have seen.
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Dec 14, 2022 02:45
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Rutibex posted:
Lol that would be hard mode. But I understand where you're coming from. Just look at the finish. And look at the really flat polished faces. This is a casting designed for the least amount of surface grinder and absolute minimum milling.
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Dec 14, 2022 02:49
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Hadlock posted:Is this a.. 3 axis (x,y,z) cnc machine for $5k? Like could you realistically CNC a custom head for a LS1 or whatever with something like this. Fusion 360 + billet aluminum + time = engine parts Just 2 axis cnc. Z is manual. It can do auto feed in z for boring but not useful as 3 axis cnc. They're about 30k new. It's creeping up too. That's why we're slowly unloading them. When I started here 10 years ago it was 60% mills like this, 10% full vmc, and the rest lathes grinders and jig grinders. When you can buy a used hurco for 40-50k and a new knee mill for 30-35 you just keep buying hurcos and phasing out the older stuff. Luckily the prototrak control and hurco control are close enough to make a pipeline from mill to cnc mill to full vmc not to bad.
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Dec 14, 2022 03:03
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Rutibex posted:I've been taking classes on these machines and I didn't know what an LS1 head looked like so I looked it up: Once you're making enough it's all special machines that just have the motion and tooling to make that one part. If you want to billet small production you use a 5 axis machine. That would make that head a 2 setup job.
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Dec 14, 2022 03:06
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