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The music industry has been using AI to generate music for decades, they just keep it behind closed doors. There was a scandal in the early 2000s that barely anybody paid attention to and everything.
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Dec 14, 2022 12:18
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Yeah there's a reason why the public models are poo poo, then go nowhere and die off the reason is Big Money and Big Lawyers
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Dec 14, 2022 12:22
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KinkyJohn posted:Speaking of the RIAA, imagine the absolute shitshow if there were a public model that could do the same with music. I'm sure the music generator AIs already exist, and they won't release them because they would be sued. Copyright precident for music is harsh, even sounding similar can get you in trouble.
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Dec 14, 2022 13:50
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The only way to make these AIs smarter is to feed them even huger piles of data, in different varieties. To make a top tier AI it should be feed all human music in addition to all books and all art. We are gonna get a music making AI quite soon, just because teaching it music makes it more generally smarter. Of course that tier of AI might not be public 
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Dec 14, 2022 13:53
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At some point it's going to be about curating the best looking images from the AI and the AI will develop unique styles if it works similar to the ones that play games. See how AI changed the game of Go recently. It advanced game play as human players were able to learn the strategies and use them themselves. That's easier as the AI can judge a win as good output vs a loss as bad output. With art it's a bit more subjective so I believe a human will need to be there to cherry pick at every step. Maybe we do 1m-10m images per "step" and add the best 1-10% to the training data. I think that is when the real renascence happens. Part of art is the piece being widely known and being able to discuss it, no matter what there will be a desire for galleries and art discussion and how the piece makes you feel. I'm not defining art as having to be shared something can be personal and never shared and still be art. But part of the art world is this sharing and discussion. By the same extension I think GPT will be amazing when you can keep it running in a state for years at a time and have it co-write a novel where you have it reiterate scenes and go no I don't think Bill would do that how about he does this in that scene instead. You can make a private book that appeals to you where you can decide no I don't want that character to die and change it as it's happening. You'll even have the option to share it if you think it's good enough. Sometimes you just want to read a story without much foreshadowing and is just a straight forward ride. Now attach this to an audio AI and have it do voices for each character and you have an audiobook version. This feels like the next 20-30 years of advancement. And while all of this should in theory be able to run on consumer hardware by that time there's nothing to say capitalism doesn't keep it exclusively in the hands of megacorps. Also doesn't mean it can be stolen, pirating AIs could become a thing. The future is uncertain, but the cat is out of the bag with image AI. Really I just want to see it start coming up with it's own styling. I think MJ is on the way but it's an overall style.
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Dec 14, 2022 14:26
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Speaking of hardware, running a neural network on a quantum computer would likely result in some god-like speed improvement. I bet that's gonna be interesting
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Dec 14, 2022 14:30
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Rutibex posted:Speaking of hardware, running a neural network on a quantum computer would likely result in some god-like speed improvement. I bet that's gonna be interesting I'm very sceptical that quantum computing will work with any stability anytime soon.
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Dec 14, 2022 14:39
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LifeSunDeath posted:I'm very sceptical that quantum computing will work with any stability anytime soon. I'm skeptical that quantum computing is even physically possible, but that's rather off topic.
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Dec 14, 2022 14:55
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Tree Reformat posted:I'm skeptical that quantum computing is even physically possible, but that's rather off topic. you think all those labs are just making poo poo up?
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Dec 14, 2022 14:58
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Tree Reformat posted:I'm skeptical that quantum computing is even physically possible, but that's rather off topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOJCS1W1uzg pixaal fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 14, 2022 15:04
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pixaal posted:take it with a grain of salt, though if I understand this correctly and how quantum entanglement works we did just proof of concept FTL communications. (My understanding is from scifi I'm probably off on that) Quantum Entanglement does not allow FTL communication.
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Dec 14, 2022 15:22
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pixaal posted:here's your proof, 2 weeks ago we simulated a wormhole successfully on one. e: the video very much gets up it's own rear end. Make sure to take it with a grain of salt, though if I understand this correctly and how quantum entanglement works we did just proof of concept FTL communications. the problem is that entanglement is an illusion, and also very unstable: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/ which leads to tons of errors in quantum computers, which are already very complex in how they have to operate. my feeling is that it won't be a viable computer any time soon but is an interesting tool for new kinds of experiments. What does seem to be happening is companies pouring tons of money into these projects in the hopes that it will pan out and we can somehow get around real physics limitations, but their PR never reveals if it's in fact computing faster just that it's doing some kind of secret magic that will be faster some day, somehow. LifeSunDeath fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 14, 2022 15:23
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Brendan Rodgers posted:Quantum Entanglement does not allow FTL communication. I must misunderstand how it works then, I figured I was off on that. LifeSunDeath posted:the problem is that entanglement is an illusion, and also very unstable: Oh my timeframe for this being actually usable is decades but we have a working machine right there. It works like poo poo but it exists. We'll only get better at it. Look at how much VR has advanced in the last few decades. That's still not fully ready I see a similar path with quantum computers where there's a few flare ups of look how far this has come before it dies down again as well this isn't ready yet.
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Dec 14, 2022 15:26
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A walk through the mysterious and creepy world of Bioluminescence! The prompt is "Bioluminescent Optical Illusion Paradox" with maximum chaos and maximum stylize. I love simple prompts like this that allow midjourney to take off the limiters and just paint whatever hosed up thing it wants. Its very creative when let free!                  
Rutibex fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 14, 2022 16:07
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I love putting stuff in and seeing what comes out. I feel when I give that much control to the AI it's more about entertainment than creating art. There's a balance and I think it's really up to the person creating the image to decide when it's loving around and when it's art. I decided to put a weird line from American dad in and mostly got what you'd expect ham and hamsters but then I got this first one, 2nd is a normal image from this set I hope we have ham I can pump so much when I'm full of ham   Like God has kissed me with a mouthful of scotch  and then Google Colab kicked me off I will have to try out Bioluminescent some other time.
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Dec 14, 2022 17:25
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There's an open revolt happening on Artstation Dragged into the future kicking and screaming, just like the Bible belt.
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Dec 14, 2022 17:34
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TheWorldsaStage posted:There's an open revolt happening on Artstation history tells us again and again how nature points to the folly of man couldn't tell you what that's from, someone on a BBS i was on when i was 12 used to sign their posts that way
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Dec 14, 2022 17:41
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What about "please don't scrape my data and work and profit from it without my consent" seems regressive to you?
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Dec 14, 2022 17:43
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TheWorldsaStage posted:There's an open revolt happening on Artstation If I'm being completely honest, I had never even heard of Artstation before Stable Diffusion. If anything, AI has been good for their business.
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Dec 14, 2022 17:45
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BoldFace posted:If I'm being completely honest, I had never even heard of Artstation before Stable Diffusion. If anything, AI has been good for their business. Same, but Greg Rutkowski.
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Dec 14, 2022 17:46
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Prolonged Panorama posted:What about "please don't scrape my data and work and profit from it without my consent" seems regressive to you? Any artist can be inspired by anything to create art/profit without paying royalties to what they were inspired from, correct? E: rambling snipped TheWorldsaStage fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 14, 2022 17:47
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Prolonged Panorama posted:What about "please don't scrape my data and work and profit from it without my consent" seems regressive to you? I wouldn't call it as regressive as it is "technologically impossible given the ground realities we're living with". StableDiffusion funded an NPO called LAION to build an image dataset for training based on Common Crawl. CommonCrawl produces such output by scraping the publicly available web (interestingly, a large amount of the LAION data comes from Pinterest). I see three problems here, one technical and two ideological. The technical problem is that there's no particularly good way of crawling together a tremendous dataset of publicly-facing data, and figuring out "is this actually public domain" if that is a thing you even need to care about. Sure, you could build a database of "IP should be respected images" and make sure you're not including them (and I suspect we may end up at least attempting that road. But generally once you put content on the internet you're gonna have a hard time preventing people from making gross hentai or whatever with it, even if your IP case is rock solid, it's a hydra. IP laws have not kept pace with the tech, so they're not going to reinvent themselves in time to stop this from being massively disruptive, and by the time we have a new legal framework for this, well, the VC-backed AI people will have done the Lobbyist thing, so, not holding out a ton of hope for disenfranchised. artists at that point. The ideological problem I see is related to "if that is a thing you need to care about", and the legal stuff there is for the courts to decide, but, to me, the main differences between having a computer doing a bunch of iterations until it can reliably draw in a style based on known input and having a person stare at a given artist's paintings and do that, is that in the first case a tool is being used and also that tool makes this process dramatically more efficient. I've long made basic PS comps by tracing an existing image, and to me, a lot of this stuff is more or less in line with that. Also, StableDiffusion is walking a fine line and sort of "trying to be the good guy and appease all sides" here because they want to be a for-profit company, no other reason. The UnstableDiffusion kickstarter proves that community efforts will be more than adequare to raise the capital needed to train whatever. Okay, maybe that means the emegence of "pirate AI models" and "pirate AI artists", but, then we get into an INSANE can of worms of "prove this image came from this pirate model and not this very similar legal one". At no point in my lifetime has the US or global legal apparatus been remotely up to the challenge of litigating and putting a useful framework around network technologies. So, "good" "bad" or "neutral" this stuff is just here, and so, if you are a commercial artist or someone like me who definitely isn't but still sees ways that this tech could pretty easily deprecate huge parts of my job, then this is a moment of existential crisis. Faced with that, it makes the most sense to me to just look at the changing ground conditions and try to make the best decisions possible to ensure the stability of one's own food supply and shelter. That's where I am with this stuff: I can do a bunch of handwringing over what parts of it are lovely vs super lovely vs maybe cool, or I can learn as much about it as possible, learn to build and train models, and make it part of my workflows as an early adopter rather than getting dusted by it in 2 years. Might work, might not, but this is the 3rd time in 20 years I've had to do a hard internal pivot on interest and direction based on "stuff I do in my job being automated", so on that front it's old hat. Capitalism sucks, yadda yadda yadda. In two years this poo poo might just go full Colossus: Forbin on us and nuke the planet. Just chillax and enjoy your cat pics in the meantime  TheWorldsaStage posted:Any artist can be inspired by anything to create art/profit without paying royalties to what they were inspired from, correct? this is different because computers and i don't understand computers and they scare me. seriously, this is different because of speed, scale by orders of magnitude, and accessibility to people who "aren't artists". The last part seems like lovely gatekeeping to me, but the flipside is we're talking about a vocation that's been poo poo on by capital since the printing press made Illumination less cool. edit: It seems to me that the backlash to this (from the art community) is conflating two very different things: #1 - X model was trained on a bunch of my art and can crib my style very effectively #2 - these models in general will make commercial art cheaper to produce and that will be detrimental to a lot of people already making money on it 2 is inevitable and does not follow from 1, because if you just jammed every single available public domain image into a model and trained it well, you would still have something that could do #2 without any of the #1 concerns. I think 1 is myopic for the same reasons you do per this quote. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 14, 2022 18:11
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Cabbages and Kings posted:history tells us again and again how nature points to the folly of man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muUZjovOFRg
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Dec 14, 2022 18:18
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Cabbages and Kings posted:The last part seems like lovely gatekeeping to me, but the flipside is we're talking about a vocation that's been poo poo on by capital since the printing press made Illumination less cool. Excellent post, thanks for putting things way better than I could. To this point, it makes the subset that are making Disney poo poo to try to get Disney involved to at least keep the status quo all the more sad
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Dec 14, 2022 18:18
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TheWorldsaStage posted:There's an open revolt happening on Artstation Artists are flooding the site with images like this  Will this finally stop AI generated art forever? Click the spoiler to find out the answer 
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Dec 14, 2022 18:25
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https://twitter.com/weirddalle/status/1603023590303338498
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Dec 14, 2022 18:38
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That's swing. To bad its not a zoot suit too tho It is still good
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Dec 14, 2022 18:41
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Cabbages and Kings posted:seriously, this is different because of speed, scale by orders of magnitude, and accessibility to people who "aren't artists". The last part seems like lovely gatekeeping to me, but the flipside is we're talking about a vocation that's been poo poo on by capital since the printing press made Illumination less cool. Yeah, when I see both "anyone can pick up a pencil and paper and start drawing, bro, art is already completely accessible" and "my portfolio represents thirty years of hard work, blood and tears" (sometimes from the same person), we have a contradiction. Either you're saying art is completely accessible and thus wouldn't mind the market being flooded with low quality sketches or whatever so long as humans did all the work... or you admit that without AI assistance, Decent Aesthetic Quality artwork requires lots of training and practice, and thus most people would have to commission you to do the work for them on at all a reasonable timescale. lovely corporations be lovely, but this argument seems to poo poo on indie creators too who don't have decades to invest in making artwork for the tiny game or garage album they want to put together. quote:edit: It seems to me that the backlash to this (from the art community) is conflating two very different things: It also seems to imply the artists wouldn't consider PublicDomainDiffusion at all a threat due to the implied belief that public domain works are strictly inferior to copyrighted/trademarked works. Tree Reformat fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 14, 2022 18:46
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/12/14/high-on-lifes-walls-are-covered-in-midjourney-ai-art/?sh=610427474142 I'm sure there is already a ton of AI in the pipeline for lots of projects but I noticed this in the game, turns out AI was decently heavily used in the production. It's too late, it's here.
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Dec 14, 2022 19:09
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KakerMix posted:https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/12/14/high-on-lifes-walls-are-covered-in-midjourney-ai-art/?sh=610427474142 Itch.io roleplaying books are already absolutely saturated with AI art. It's very cringe when you see midjourney v3 art, and its just midjourney girl with elf ears  https://itch.io/
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Dec 14, 2022 19:16
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Tree Reformat posted:It also seems to imply the artists wouldn't consider PublicDomainDiffusion at all a threat due to the implied belief that public domain works are strictly inferior to copyrighted/trademarked works.  yep and also the canon of art which is public domain based on age alone.I feel somewhat bad in that I don't want to poo poo on artists or artisans or commerical artists or whatever you consider yourself. My grandfather drew airplanes for magazine covers, my father made pottery. Examples below of both. I've talked about all this stuff extensively with my dad, but, also, my dad is himself enough of a "can I do this EASIER?" person who considers his own commercial productions "craftmanship, NOT art", and I think if in the height of his career he could have bought a machine that would put "his style" onto pots and saved him a shitload of time he would have just done so and marked the resulting products down somewhat. Here is some commerical art that my grandfather made. HIS dad was an artist.... of patent trolling.... which got him a wikipedia page in 2022, and set up a trust fund that paid for all kinds of poo poo, like "my parents being able to give assloads of money to their weird hippy friends in the 60s and destroying those relationships in the process because capitalism sucks" and "paying for almost all of my college education". It won't pay for my kids, though, but what do they even need to go to school for? Living richly in a desert of skulls isn't something college preps for.   
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Dec 14, 2022 19:36
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^^^ grandpa owns, those are great covers an AI trained only on public domain stuff would certainly be a lot worse at imitating modern digital painting styles or 3d-rendered images from the past 10-20 years, although maybe there's enough of that that's PD to train one anyways
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Dec 14, 2022 19:39
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KakerMix posted:https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/12/14/high-on-lifes-walls-are-covered-in-midjourney-ai-art/?sh=610427474142 What things like this ignore is that yes you got the art in 45 minutes instead of 45 days, but someone still had to type in the prompts and get them how they wanted and clearly these were touched up with actual fonts put over them. I guess this example out my rear end has this compressing 8 hours of work into 1 minute of time, I got 45 minutes from the article I think usable you'd probably get 5-10 usable images in this time period actually maybe my 45 days is off doesn't really matter. My next point is someone has to do this, the time is reduced (significantly) but games also reuse a ton of assets, an artist could instead produce even higher quality work working along side and touching up the AI output having it get 90% of the way there. Or they could produce more artwork allowing for a more diverse environment. I think the level of mastery required to successfully make a higher quality or even large asset project isn't there yet. Mostly because the AI tools are evolving so fast less than a year after release it will look like crap compared to what a modern solution could output. Oh look the same 12 trees as the first zone only these ones are covered in snow turns into wow every single tree is completely unique and there's over 100,000 of them total in the world. Is this worth doing? gently caress if I know but it's something that in theory could be done now that would have been an insane undertaking a few years ago.
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Dec 14, 2022 19:43
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:^^^ grandpa owns, those are great covers they need a lot of image data. the majority of what they feed it is like museum photos or dash cam footage or every frame of a youtube video. just every drat thing possible in other news, i found a prompt that makes stories all on its own every image was generated randomly using "bioluminescence by Junji Ito""Hey give me a hit of that Bioluminescence "   "whhhoooo dude thats the good stuff"  "gently caress maybe not" 
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Dec 14, 2022 19:47
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Cabbages and Kings posted:
Your family is way cooler than mine
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Dec 14, 2022 19:47
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pixaal posted:What things like this ignore is that yes you got the art in 45 minutes instead of 45 days, but someone still had to type in the prompts and get them how they wanted and clearly these were touched up with actual fonts put over them. I guess this example out my rear end has this compressing 8 hours of work into 1 minute of time, I got 45 minutes from the article I think usable you'd probably get 5-10 usable images in this time period actually maybe my 45 days is off doesn't really matter. There actually is random tree generation software https://store.speedtree.com/ for all your gaming vegetation needs! AI has been used heavily in gaming for years now even if it's just texture blending.
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Dec 14, 2022 19:48
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TheWorldsaStage posted:Your family is way cooler than mine it's a mixed bag, some of them fought and died under the traitor flag when we found definitive proof of this, my TN-dwelling journalist brother used it as ammo, because he was used to TN regressives saying "mah great grandpappy fought under this flag and I..." and now when people pull that poo poo, he just says "oh yea? Some of my ancestors also died fighting under a confederate flag, and you know what? They were wrong racist assholes then and they sure don't look any better now!!" So, yea, artists, teachers, Krishna-loving world travelers, quasi-legal CA weed cartel people, patent trolls and straight up racist hatemongers, my family tree has it all! The racism is on both sides, too, because this is all my dad's side so far, but I know that I had slave-owning ancestors on my mom's side in Louisana, and my awful and racist great uncle who I only met once, famously said at a large family meal when someone was processing 60s progressive stuff, "YEA? WELL _THIS_ FAMILY ALWAYS TREATED OUR (N-slur) WELL!" like, holy poo poo dude. Glad I met that fucker only once and I was too young to know about any of this poo poo and then he fuckin died. StableDiffusion, show me "(super racist great uncle), (family dinner), controversy, anger, sadness, 4k, octane render, photorealistic", neg prompts "unrealistic, bad hands, progressive, (civil rights)":  weirdly that kinda looks like what I remember him as, but "simian-esque white dude" covers a lot of ground
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Dec 14, 2022 19:59
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:There actually is random tree generation software https://store.speedtree.com/ for all your gaming vegetation needs! AI has been used heavily in gaming for years now even if it's just texture blending. There's a difference between AI and Procedural generation, granted the line is starting to get blurry. The games and film industries use a lot of procedural tools like substance designer, houdini, speedtree, etc. to create assets. Most aren't really making new art by being fed existing art but through raw math and modifiers. In the case of textures in games, it still takes a trained artist to turn procedurally generated noise patterns into wood, stone, architectural details and what have you. An AI could do this but it would need tons and tons of reference material to understand how something should look.
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Dec 14, 2022 20:30
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KakerMix posted:https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/12/14/high-on-lifes-walls-are-covered-in-midjourney-ai-art/?sh=610427474142 I'd say it's an improvement over how things used to be (and still are). 
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Dec 14, 2022 20:44
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pixaal posted:What things like this ignore is that yes you got the art in 45 minutes instead of 45 days, but someone still had to type in the prompts and get them how they wanted and clearly these were touched up with actual fonts put over them. I guess this example out my rear end has this compressing 8 hours of work into 1 minute of time, I got 45 minutes from the article I think usable you'd probably get 5-10 usable images in this time period actually maybe my 45 days is off doesn't really matter. I'm fully on-board with AI being a tool, one that is currently being heavily adopted in all manners of content creation, it is already over. I agree with you as well that the people very upset at this online right now are being, contradictorily, both overzealous and dismissive on what these AIs can do. You can just go "PROMPT" and leave it at that, just like you can slap a photoshop filter with a single pass on a stock photo but that doesn't make it good. I don't know about other creative types, but something doesn't just pop out fully formed. Sketching or refining or block modeling or whatever and then you mess with it till its form comes out. Using AI is the same way, especially if you do know how to make stuff normally then it just because a very powerful tool to both produce and inspire. As has been mentioned countless times, AI is scary now because of how quick and good it is, and has nothing to do with *how* it does it, which is just like a person would do. BoldFace posted:I'd say it's an improvement over how things used to be (and still are). lol Of course it's lazy as gently caress, which is why you bet your rear end AI is all over right now.
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Dec 14, 2022 20:48
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