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Who's your 2022 MVP? This poll is closed. |
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| Shohei Ohtani |
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50 | 59.52% |
| Aaron Judge |
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19 | 22.62% |
| Hey, the national league has an MVP too you know! |
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15 | 17.86% |
| Total: | 84 votes | ||
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morel also somehow when he was first signed out of the DR somehow crashed through a plate glass window and cut his hand up extremely badly and they weren't sure he'd be able to play baseball again, he still can't close his left hand all the way, i think. he came up from AA to majors as a no-name prospect, hit a dinger in his first at bat that went on Waveland, was a career IF who immediately started playing center in the major leagues with almost no outfield experience, and was an insane hitter for like two months before, like most prospects, cratered when pitchers figured him out. no one here actually thinks he's a future star or even really a starter in the majors, but he rules.
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Dec 15, 2022 22:27
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General Bullshit posted:Tigers offense was so bad. I don't even know what you do with Baez besides bench him every time he swings at a slider in the dirt. That's what Baez has always done. He's not good
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Dec 15, 2022 22:34
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Kilometers Davis posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/stltoday/status/1603465293388517376 He's so self-righteous and annoying at many times, but I think it's inarguable that he is incredibly talented as a PBP guy and clearly loves baseball a ton. Now give me my dream of Bernie Federko and Al Hrabowsky calling a game with Mike Shannon roaming the stands
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Dec 15, 2022 22:40
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Nodoze posted:That's what Baez has always done. He's not good baez rules
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Dec 15, 2022 22:42
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For those wondering what the Cubs are doing, they're trying to replicate the success of the Rays and Guardians. Teams that have been able to make the playoffs without big payrolls. Their front office is filled with people from both organizations now. I'm sure they'll spend more than the Rays. But it also feels like they're shifting the organization to that model where you can sneak into the playoffs every so often with a low payroll. Probably helps that more teams make the playoffs than before. https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs...r-cubs-bullets/ quote:Speaking of which, Jesse Rogers shared a Jed Hoyer anecdote on the radio yesterday (as heard by Evan Altman). The gist was a discussion about whether you can win without a lot of “star” players, and if the Cubs don’t see future “stars” in their system, then they have to go out and get them. Rogers says Hoyer may have agreed, but he also pointed out that the Rays win without a lot of “stars.” If that captures Hoyer’s point well enough, then, I mean, he’s not wrong (and Rogers added context on Twitter that it was just a conversation, not Hoyer suggesting the Cubs are going to be exactly like the Rays). But again, it gives you that uneasy feeling in the pit of your stomach. We want the Cubs to copy the things the Rays do well, not the pennies they pinch along the way. So it is, I think, pretty understandable that Cubs fans would flinch at the mere mention right now. https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/1603365549668343808
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Dec 15, 2022 22:47
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Nodoze posted:The Red Sox released Jeter Downs. What a trade lol Yeah...Jeets?
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Dec 15, 2022 22:47
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I would rather have Baez on that contract than whatever Swanson is going to make.
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Dec 15, 2022 22:47
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Niwrad posted:For those wondering what the Cubs are doing, they're trying to replicate the success of the Rays and Guardians. Teams that have been able to make the playoffs without big payrolls. Their front office is filled with people from both organizations now. You need good pitching to do this.
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Dec 15, 2022 23:04
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Morel was like the only fun player on a team mostly full of the most generic dipshits imaginable. I hope he can at least stay rosterable.
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Dec 15, 2022 23:15
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Yeah it's pretty clear what the Cubs are aiming to become is a team that has: a) A robust farm system that has a lot of quality depth that can be brought up on the fly and produce reasonably well at the MLB level, ala the Cardinals. b) Good player development, both to maximize prospects but also to be attractive to bargain bin players looking for a reclamation year. c) Few if any long term financial commitments, to maximize budget flexibility. They will throw around higher AAV's than what the Guardians/Rays will but don't want to sign guys to 6+ year contracts. The big problem right now is C, because it turns out that beyond a handful of exceptions most of the impact guys the Cubs were supposedly in on wanted and got decade long deals. This is also why I expect them to not actually land Swanson: even if he is objectively the worst of the big four SS FA's, he's gotta be fielding longer offers than 5-6 years which is presumably where the Cubs would max out in years. tadashi posted:You need good pitching to do this. Our pitching is actually okay right now, which is kinda weird to say after all these years but the Cubs are genuinely righting the ship on this front. Yeah it would be nice to have a bonafide ace but Stroman/Steele/Taillon/Hendricks/Wesneski (assuming Hendricks is healthy) is pretty solid, particularly if Wesneski and Steele can pick up where they left off. And for once the depth is solid too, with Thompson, Alzolay, Sampson, and Assad all capable of stepping in as 4/5 types, and Kilian/Wicks/Brown in the upper minors all essentially ready or almost ready to to pitch in the bigs. I also fully expect the Cubs to also grab a depth starter or two they can have on the cheap for a year or two like Kluber or Smyly.
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Dec 15, 2022 23:18
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Sydin posted:Our pitching is actually okay right now, which is kinda weird to say after all these years but the Cubs are genuinely righting the ship on this front. Yeah it would be nice to have a bonafide ace but Stroman/Steele/Taillon/Hendricks/Wesneski (assuming Hendricks is healthy) is pretty solid, particularly if Wesneski and Steele can pick up where they left off. And for once the depth is solid too, with Thompson, Alzolay, Sampson, and Assad all capable of stepping in as 4/5 types, and Kilian/Wicks/Brown in the upper minors all essentially ready or almost ready to to pitch in the bigs. I also fully expect the Cubs to also grab a depth starter or two they can have on the cheap for a year or two like Kluber or Smyly. I feel like counting on Hendricks to even be a reliable fourth starter is a huge stretch. He looked awful this past season and he struggled badly in 2021, too. He didn't get surgery for the capsular tear in his shoulder--and that's a degenerative condition--and he only started throwing a week ago. He's got a tough road ahead of him. Even if he could start hitting like 88 on his fastball and sinker, it won't matter much if his changeup and curveball remain totally fuckin' flat.
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Dec 15, 2022 23:38
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Were the Cubs ever going to compete next year? The vibe I got was that they had a bunch of pretty good prospects who start coming up in 2023, meaning unless they all perform immediately, the window opens in '24 and beyond. Kind of like the Giants, even with Correa, TBH. I did think they would sign a mid tier hitter like Josh Bell. They could still get a guy or two I guess.
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Dec 15, 2022 23:50
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Dansby honestly isn’t all that bad but he is streaky as hell and his bad stretches can really just drain the life out of you.
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Dec 15, 2022 23:51
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 these mfs said Astros Dynasty
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Dec 16, 2022 00:18
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drat straight vvvv what all the haters say. It's more about the 6 straight ALCS and 4 WS MrMidnight fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 00:19
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Regardless of how tainted the 2017 title may be, 2 titles in 5 years is nowhere near a dynasty lol
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Dec 16, 2022 00:22
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zoux posted:
Is that jersey on the left what Maldonado was wearing when he leaned into the pitch?
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Dec 16, 2022 00:25
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Red posted:Is that jersey on the left what Maldonado was wearing when he leaned into the pitch? the Dont Duck Dynasty
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Dec 16, 2022 00:28
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Red posted:Is that jersey on the left what Maldonado was wearing when he leaned into the pitch? You're still on that. Didn't know moving your arm back was leaning in. He moved up in the box hoping Wheeler would pitch inside and it worked. What Diaz did in Game 1 was leaning in and he was rightfully called on it.
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Dec 16, 2022 00:30
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The Pussy Boss posted:Were the Cubs ever going to compete next year? The vibe I got was that they had a bunch of pretty good prospects who start coming up in 2023, meaning unless they all perform immediately, the window opens in '24 and beyond. Kind of like the Giants, even with Correa, TBH. I did think they would sign a mid tier hitter like Josh Bell. They could still get a guy or two I guess. The point is, Why do they have to wait? They're a big market team. You can patch weaknesses in free agency and contend for some of the top players. Instead, they are signing defensive players to 1 year deals and adding middle rotation pitchers. They are always going to be one year out from really getting the pocketbooks out until they change it.
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Dec 16, 2022 00:32
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Also that’s not the timeline for the better Cubs prospects. They are extremely young and most have 2025/2026 expected MLB dates. https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects...47%7C45%2B&pos=
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Dec 16, 2022 00:41
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MrMidnight posted:You're still on that. Didn't know moving your arm back was leaning in. He moved up in the box hoping Wheeler would pitch inside and it worked. What Diaz did in Game 1 was leaning in and he was rightfully called on it. A weak hitter who was playing hurt moved up in the box and made zero effort to get out of the way of the pitch at best, or moved his elbow into the right position at worst. We don't need to agree, but he clearly wasn't angling to walk. Forrest on Fire posted:The point is, Why do they have to wait? They're a big market team. You can patch weaknesses in free agency and contend for some of the top players. Instead, they are signing defensive players to 1 year deals and adding middle rotation pitchers. Would Cubs fans be upset if they signed Longoria?
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Dec 16, 2022 00:48
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Red posted:A weak hitter who was playing hurt moved up in the box and made zero effort to get out of the way of the pitch at best, or moved his elbow into the right position at worst. Longo said he only wants to play in the Bay Area/Arizona/Florida to be near his family.
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Dec 16, 2022 00:51
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MrMidnight posted:drat straight Yeah it's hard to argue against it at this point. It's a historic run - enjoy it while we got it 'stros fans. Edit: Let Red have this - his team lost the World Series. If the roles were reversed we'd say the same exact thing.
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Dec 16, 2022 00:52
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Red posted:A weak hitter who was playing hurt moved up in the box and made zero effort to get out of the way of the pitch at best, or moved his elbow into the right position at worst. Oh for sure. He knew he had no chance to walk or get a hit. I put it in the same league as flopping in soccer.
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Dec 16, 2022 00:55
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MrMidnight posted:drat straight A dynasty is winning titles. No one considers the Dodgers' current run a dynasty.
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Dec 16, 2022 00:55
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zoux posted:
It is though. I mentioned earlier in the thread but I ran basically every team looking through windows of 6/8/10 years of success (defined mostly by postseason success but also including good regular season success) and no matter how I weighted it (rings only, wins matter, etc.) it's a top 10 finisher IF you only allow for non-overlapping Yankees dynasties (eg, 1934-1943 Yankees and 1947-1956 Yankees but not 1940-1949 Yankees as they overlap with both of those). In fact, it's only definitely worse than 1940s Cards and the 1970s Reds. With the others, it depends on how you look at it.
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Dec 16, 2022 00:56
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I am still annoyed about how good the Astros pitching was
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Dec 16, 2022 00:56
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Hand Row posted:Also that’s not the timeline for the better Cubs prospects. They are extremely young and most have 2025/2026 expected MLB dates. lmao these ETA's are extremely hosed. PCA will start next year in AA and could conceivably reach the majors by 2024, Davis will be up in 2023 as long as his back doesn't blow up on him again, Horton was a college sophomore and is already 21, he will be up much sooner than 2026. This list also ignores guys like Matt Mervis (huge 2022 breakout, will probably make the opening day roster next year barring service time fuckery) Kilian/Wicks/Brown (MOR-upside SP's who'll all be MLB ready next year) and Canario (also had a huge offensive breakout, managed to dislocate his shoulder and break his ankle on the same play in the DWL, will hopefully be up in the majors and contributing later in the year). The Cubs absolutely could have thrown some money at a top tier SS and somebody like Rodon/Verlander/etc to sure up the rotation and fought for a WC spot. Hell maybe we could have actually contended for the division if we'd kept Contreras instead of letting him walk to the loving Cardinals.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:00
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MrMidnight posted:drat straight Were the 90s Braves a dynasty?
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Dec 16, 2022 01:02
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Pungry posted:A dynasty is winning titles. No one considers the Dodgers' current run a dynasty. Gotta pick one of ‘em to designate that word
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Dec 16, 2022 01:03
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The Pussy Boss posted:Were the Cubs ever going to compete next year? The vibe I got was that they had a bunch of pretty good prospects who start coming up in 2023, meaning unless they all perform immediately, the window opens in '24 and beyond. Kind of like the Giants, even with Correa, TBH. I did think they would sign a mid tier hitter like Josh Bell. They could still get a guy or two I guess. I don't see a window coming in 2024. They have some depth in the farm system, but a lot of their promising prospects are in the lower levels. They also don't have many bats or top-end prospects. I thought they should have gone hard after bats this offseason since they aren't going to be getting much help from the minors in that area. One of the top shortstops was a must plus Bell and Bellinger. Would have also kept Contreras. That puts your payroll at a little over $200 million. You have Heyward's contract coming off the books too. Probably not a playoff team with that, but not far off considering only 7 teams are even trying in the NL. Then you go into 2024 with some young pitchers and plug in holes along the way. And by the time some of the bats are ready, Bell/Bellinger/Contreras are off the books or coming close.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:04
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bawfuls posted:if the Astros don’t count cause they cheated in 2017 then the Dodgers do cause they had 2017 stolen No, I continue to reject the idea that winning 2 titles in 5 years is a "dynasty". Regardless of the Dodgers or Astros winning in 2017, neither stretch constitutes a dynasty. The closest thing the MLB has had to a dynasty in a while is the 2010-2014 Giants.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:07
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Regarding the dynasty stuff, you have to remember it's far more difficult to win the World Series now than it was in, say, even 1960. There's almost twice as many teams now as there was then. In a sense it's "easier" because more teams get in, but you do still have to win more playoff series to compensate for that. Consistently winning the AL pennant against 14 other teams is arguably almost as impressive (or more) as consistently winning the WS pre-1960 (against 15 other teams) because of this.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:07
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Is it a dynasty if you miss the postseason complete half the time, in an era when 1/3rd of the league makes it? Perhaps we could develop a point system to weight all these competing factors and tell us what is and isn't a good dynasty. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 01:15
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I long for the new season to talk about something else. Ah well. My personal opinion is 3 championships is a dynasty. 2 in 6 is pushing it but it’s in the ballpark. Whether or not the ALCSs count can be answered by asking yourself about similar runs like the Dodgers or a Braves. When you talk about the Yankee dynasty does it end in 2000, 2001, or 2004? It’s a subjective call and fans will always be biased. It’s also very arbitrary. The Astros have been successful. That success is tarnished but also undeniable. It is what it is. The labels just exist for assholes to poo poo talk. “Winning the pennant when we did it is bigger than winning the ws when others did” is just not gonna win arguments though. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 01:15
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Sydin posted:Yeah it's pretty clear what the Cubs are aiming to become is a team that has: I see talk of copying the Astros, Guardians, Rays, and Cardinals. But I think they should be copying the Dodgers. The revenues of the two teams can't be that far off. The Cubs should absolutely be bullying teams in free agency every year. And the Dodgers do a great job of building up their farm system with players who can slide into supporting roles or be used in trades to acquire stars. R.D. Mangles posted:morel also somehow when he was first signed out of the DR somehow crashed through a plate glass window and cut his hand up extremely badly and they weren't sure he'd be able to play baseball again, he still can't close his left hand all the way, i think. he came up from AA to majors as a no-name prospect, hit a dinger in his first at bat that went on Waveland, was a career IF who immediately started playing center in the major leagues with almost no outfield experience, and was an insane hitter for like two months before, like most prospects, cratered when pitchers figured him out. no one here actually thinks he's a future star or even really a starter in the majors, but he rules. I don't see Morel as a star but I think he can be a good player. He was 22 years old when he came up with only 130 games in AA. Despite that, he was a pretty solid contributor. It seems like with some work lowering the K%, he can be a really good utility player with some pop. I still think his ideal position is 3B and I'd open the season with him there. But I'm guessing Patrick Wisdom or some other 30+ career minor leaguer will be playing ahead of him.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:19
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STAC Goat posted:Whether or not the ALCSs count can be answered by asking yourself about similar runs like the Dodgers or a Braves. For anyone who's team doesn't have multiple titles in their living memory, would you rather your team replicate what the Giants did (3 in 5 with the intervening and many surrounding years non-competitive) or what the Dodgers/Braves did (playing in October every year for a decade+ but fewer titles to show for it)? Those are really the extremes we're talking about here right?
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Dec 16, 2022 01:22
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Yeah, due to the randomness of baseball all you're really buying is your best roll of the dice, especially given the length of the regular vs. the length of a playoff series. It's like when people were talking about how - before Steve Cohen got in some sort of Brewster's millionaire bet with another owner - the Mets were spending a bunch of money to basically return the same lineup that got bounced in the WC. That didn't bother me because they had a pretty good roster, a couple of things break one way or the other and you're hoisting the piece of metal. And that's the case with literally every team every year. On paper, Dodgers had the best roster, and if they returned the same - which it looks like they're gonna - they're still going to have an excellent chance at a title next year (given some sort of unforseen season shortening event). Getting into the playoffs, subject to divisional strength of course, is properly tested with as much variance as can be ironed out over an extremely long season, but once it's the post season, anything goes, anyone can win, the winningest team can lose in the DS and the six seed can make the WS. All that to say making four of the last six world serieses and winning two is an insane accomplishment and, if I may say, represents the greatest dynasty since the Plantagenet kings.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:24
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| # ? May 29, 2024 02:23 |
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With so many teams making the playoffs in a sport that often comes down to a coin toss between the best teams, I think traditional dynasties will never happen. You're just not going to see teams winning 3-4 championships in a short duration of time. If there was some new metric to measure it, I think the Dodgers and Astros would fall into that category. They have been the two best teams in baseball for some time now. But it's just a sport that is not set up to really have what we used to consider dynasties.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:24
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