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I'm fine with the packs being available, but forcing people to pay (or any other hoop jumping) for their own skin tone is yikes territory.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:05
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Sloppy posted:Love this article! Whenever I'm resurrecting old sets the OCD part of me always tries to have the right variant for the clips, 0-rings, etc. I'm also fascinated when sets have weird versions of normal parts, or change parts partway through production. The Mobile Rocket Transport comes to mind. It has a black version of a bog-standard Technic pin that only showed up in two sets ever, as well as weird 2-finger hinges that I'm 99% sure got changed over to regular 3-finger hinges later in production (based on seeing a number of them in small used lots). Gary Istok's unofficial collector's guide is an amazing rabbit hole of similar Lego nerdom. I get the feeling that those original 1/2 finger hinges were a bit of a prototype. I'd say they changed to the 2/3 finger version pretty quick since the 1/2 finger ones were quite fragile - if one finger breaks (which they were prone to do) the whole thing is screwed. Not to mention if one finger goes a bit loose, the whole hinge is loose. Those problems weren't nearly as bad for the 2/3 finger versions as there's a bit of redundancy there. Still, I have plenty of broken ones so I can understand why they were phased out entirely. I also find it pretty fascinating about the changes in parts over the years, and how different production runs or even individual sets can have multiple variants of a part. I'm pretty sure that I had a set as a kid with both the grooved and ungrooved version of the grill tile. I also found out recently that apparently the very first production run of the 1989 Pirates sets didn't have printed flags but stickers on plain flags, but every one after that had printed flags.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:12
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xzzy posted:I'm fine with the packs being available, but forcing people to pay (or any other hoop jumping) for their own skin tone is yikes territory. I agree. I suspect that the cleanest way to handle it would be to do something akin to the Hogwarts Students packs, where you're including multiple figures with multiple skin tones in a single purchase. You hit all of the 'classic' skin tones with it (I think there's like five they use?) and bundle them in a single unit so that it's not like, 'Oh, purchase the Hispanic Pack to get Hispanic people in your town!' You're just getting a 'neighbor pack' that happens to give you parts to build a little of everybody.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:15
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Oh poo poo, they're going to be blind bags
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Dec 16, 2022 01:16
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HootTheOwl posted:Oh poo poo, they're going to be blind bags Take it back right now, don't you speak that evil into this world.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:17
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HootTheOwl posted:Oh poo poo, they're going to be blind bags Can't wait for the Fox News clips of people outraged that their innocent white child got black skin tones in their blind bag.
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Dec 16, 2022 01:42
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Didn't the original, and for some time, modulars have the generic yellow heads? And now they have the ones with expressions? Seems that the precedent has been set to have diverse minifigs in these sets. #canceLEGO
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Dec 16, 2022 01:57
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My issue with the jazz club was just that it get very “same-ee” after the police station. Taller, wider building with a smaller building set back to the side. That opinion was based on the really bad leaked image. Seeing images of it as part of the street with the others? It looks fantastic. Maybe it’s not as fancy and special as the hotel was, but I think it works. For the record, I totally don’t get jazz. I listen to it, and like a good amount of it, but I definitely don’t “get” it.
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Dec 16, 2022 02:07
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PriorMarcus posted:Where do you live? I'm in the UK and currently moving house, so I probably won't find it for a few weeks but I have a spare knocking around you can have for the cost of postage. Just checking from a post a few weeks ago. Did you ever find that mini TARDIS Lego during your recent move?
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Dec 16, 2022 02:08
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TheMadMilkman posted:For the record, I totally don’t get jazz. I listen to it, and like a good amount of it, but I definitely don’t “get” it. If you like it, you get it. You might not be able to pick up on some of the headier stuff, but who cares. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62tIvfP9A2w
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Dec 16, 2022 02:09
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Yellow minifigures are a branding albatross. They will have to change at some point and there will never be an ideal time to do so without a certain percentage of the population violently making GBS threads their pants about it, so just get it over and done with I say.
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Dec 16, 2022 02:13
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They're definitely coded to be white, or at least European. The Simpsons did them no favors as far as maintaining ambiguity.
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Dec 16, 2022 02:17
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To be fair to LEGO, when the yellow heads started, the colors they used were basically primary +black/white/grey. Now they have many more colors to work with.
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Dec 16, 2022 02:22
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PKMN Trainer Red posted:I've said for years that Lego needs to sell 'diversity packs'  I also want minifig heads with a variety of emotions and attitudes. xzzy posted:I feel like the best thing for lego to do is provide a selection of head and hand skin tones (and hair styles) in every set. The Harry Potter Suitcase and the foosball table kinda do this. https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=76399-1#T=S&O={%22iconly%22:0} https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/table-football-21337 More plz. Edit: Still bummed about the Shang Chi sets. The whole cast was East Asian ffs, but they used medium nougat heads. Missed opportunity. deoju fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 02:30
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Got now I'm wondering what yellow-skinned minidolls would look like.Waltzing Along posted:Didn't the original, and for some time, modulars have the generic yellow heads? And now they have the ones with expressions? Seems that the precedent has been set to have diverse minifigs in these sets. #canceLEGO Yeah Downtown Diner was the first to move away from the generic smiley face.
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Dec 16, 2022 03:33
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Got now I'm wondering what yellow-skinned minidolls would look like. 
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Dec 16, 2022 05:21
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I don't know why we suddenly have to start worrying about yellow minifigs just because it's a Jazz club or because of a certain hairstyle. Nobody is that color in real life so you can imagine them any way you want. Licensed sets based on shows or movies already have alternate skin tones. One idea though would be to have the minifigs as an add-on pack for sets with various skin tone options to choose from, including yellow. Sort of like a free automatic GWP at checkout. pod6isjerks fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 06:43
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The JAZZCLUB isn't the reason we're "suddenly" worried about it. It's part of a greater discussion about representation that's been evolving over years, and the thing that's forcing the discussion now more than anything is the Table Football set. The new modular just happens to tie into the conversation as well, which puts a little more pressure on the situation. The argument about being able to project anyone onto yellow figs falls apart when Black kids can't really see themselves as yellow minifigs, as stated a little earlier in the conversation. That alone speaks volumes more than anything I, a white dude, have to say about whether or not yellow minifigs are representative of all.
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Dec 16, 2022 07:43
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Can’t say anything about skin tone representation either but I think it’s incredible they made one of the bass players have hearing aids lol
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Dec 16, 2022 07:53
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Lizard Combatant posted:Yellow minifigures are a branding albatross. they'll come back hugely when everyone's all yellow and jaundiced from pollution and disease.
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Dec 16, 2022 08:05
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Carbohydrates posted:The JAZZCLUB isn't the reason we're "suddenly" worried about it. It's part of a greater discussion about representation that's been evolving over years, and the thing that's forcing the discussion now more than anything is the Table Football set. The new modular just happens to tie into the conversation as well, which puts a little more pressure on the situation. The argument about being able to project anyone onto yellow figs falls apart when Black kids can't really see themselves as yellow minifigs, as stated a little earlier in the conversation. That alone speaks volumes more than anything I, a white dude, have to say about whether or not yellow minifigs are representative of all. Why does someone need to see themselves as a minifig? I didn't play with LEGO as a kid and think "this bright yellow spaceman is ME!". Why can't yellow minifigs be their own thing in the LEGO universe? Also my Police Station modular just arrived today if I wasn't already getting on this thread's bad side 
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Dec 16, 2022 09:17
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pod6isjerks posted:Why does someone need to see themselves as a minifig? I didn't play with LEGO as a kid and think "this bright yellow spaceman is ME!". Why can't yellow minifigs be their own thing in the LEGO universe? PKMN Trainer Red posted:I've done a lot of Lego stuff with after school programs, and speaking pretty generally, 'yellow' for minifigs is coded as 'white' to younger builders, regardless of what Lego themselves says.
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Dec 16, 2022 09:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XOIqsXzqv8
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Dec 16, 2022 09:31
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pod6isjerks posted:Why does someone need to see themselves as a minifig? I didn't play with LEGO as a kid and think "this bright yellow spaceman is ME!". Why can't yellow minifigs be their own thing in the LEGO universe? I’m an almost-middle-aged white male, so take anything I say with the appropriate grain of salt, but of course I never cared about representation as a kid. I was represented in EVERYTHING growing up. I’m not African American, and I obviously can’t fully understand that point of view. But I can understand the frustration of seeing minifigs with your skin tone in a football set, but not seeing them in a jazz club set, which is centered around music that originated from African American musicians.
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Dec 16, 2022 09:36
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I just think getting rid of yellow minifigs would create more problems than it solves and I don't think it's necessary to get that granular with minifigs in non licensed sets. Bright yellow isn't a real skin tone (unless you're that weird yellow dude in Sin City). It can represent anyone it needs to. There are already white skin tones in LEGO so, it's not like yellow is an implicit stand-in for it. It is sad that some kids feel that way though. I'm not ignorant of this concept and I get your point but, different situation. TheMadMilkman posted:I’m an almost-middle-aged white male, so take anything I say with the appropriate grain of salt, but of course I never cared about representation as a kid. I was represented in EVERYTHING growing up. Sure but you also wouldn't see white skin tones in a Country Music Museum modular
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Dec 16, 2022 10:05
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Honestly, Pod6isjerks, it just seems like you are wilfully being contrarian and aren't really posting in good faith.
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Dec 16, 2022 11:46
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pod6isjerks posted:Sure but you also wouldn't see white skin tones in a Country Music Museum modular And representation isn't about "the minifig is me", it's about "the minifig looks like me". No young black child looks at a black Santa and thinks "There goes I". I'm not particularly worried about representation in Lego, but your points are all silly.
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Dec 16, 2022 12:25
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pod6isjerks posted:I just think getting rid of yellow minifigs would create more problems than it solves and I don't think it's necessary to get that granular with minifigs in non licensed sets. Except by Lego's own standards it doesn't, because they made Lando and then Mace Windu black when all of the other Star Wars characters were yellow. IIRC Lando was the first black figure ever. How about rather than saying how you don't think representation is a problem, as an extremely white-sounding person, you listen to actual lived experiences of those who know more than you? Do you think adding more diverse Lego heads is more of a problem than whole sections of the population growing up not seeing themselves represented in the world around them? Toys are very formative for kids. Edit: I also get that Lego are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place here. They're clearly making a conscious decision to be way more representative recently, with more female minifigs, disabilities, varied skin tones, the everyone is awesome set etc, and these are all good moves. On the other hand I guess they're worried that by changing away from the classic yellow they'd be admitting that they'd been kind of discriminatory up till now. Personally I don't think it would have to be a huge mea culpa - the attitude of yellow representing all skin tones seems understandable when viewed through the lens of mid-20th century Denmark. Accepting that your now globally popular product needs an update to better reflect its buyers doesn't mean you were consciously racist before. Butterfly Valley fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 12:40
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Yeah Downtown Diner was the first to move away from the generic smiley face. https://brickset.com/minifigs/in-10190-1
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Dec 16, 2022 13:56
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Oh poo poo, okay.
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Dec 16, 2022 14:21
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Change the default minifig skin tone to green. Nobody gets representation!
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Dec 16, 2022 14:56
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True grinch move
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Dec 16, 2022 15:01
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This is a remarkably lame excuse to continue doing the same thing we've always done. "It's policy!"
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Dec 16, 2022 15:13
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PKMN Trainer Red posted:I agree. I suspect that the cleanest way to handle it would be to do something akin to the Hogwarts Students packs, where you're including multiple figures with multiple skin tones in a single purchase. You hit all of the 'classic' skin tones with it (I think there's like five they use?) and bundle them in a single unit so that it's not like, 'Oh, purchase the Hispanic Pack to get Hispanic people in your town!' You're just getting a 'neighbor pack' that happens to give you parts to build a little of everybody. yeah, something like this https://brickset.com/sets/6302-1/Mini-Figure-Set but with a bunch of palettes I've said it before, but my white kid (who goes to a majority minority school) wants more diverse minifigs so that he can pretend his friends are in the scene with his superhero minifig he made. At one point he begged for a young nick fury set and then immediately tore it apart to reuse for custom characters, which we hadn't realized was what he was wanting. mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 15:19
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I'm getting a kick out of all green lego people. On a more serious note, I think it doesn't really matter the color - the issue is that they are all the same color. This is representative of a lot of other toys, media, etc that all depict everyone the same color, white. Thus, it doesn't matter what color. The problem isn't color, it is a lack of diversity and variety of colors. In this case, I think the person who said the Simpsons did them no favors is spot on re: yellow. I understand the brand association with yellow figures, but I really think it is one of those assumed things that marketing and companies get fearful of. People still buy all sorts of brands that have changed their logo over time with no effect. To me the simplest thing is just start including mix of different colored lego people, including shades of more brown, tans, reds, yellows (and even go wild with other colors) in all the sets. You don't even need to make a big announcement or deal about it; just do it. When people inevitably ask you can just explain it is the nautural evolution of lego to add more detail and diversity, just like with the other types of representations they have added to the yellow figures.
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Dec 16, 2022 15:23
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Whenever I do an order on bricklink, which has been a while, I will definitely raid their store for cheap minifig heads/hands that are different skin tones. It's too bad there aren't more generic ones readily available.
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Dec 16, 2022 15:27
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I never really had an issue with the yellow skin tones, but then again I'm white so I wouldn't. I didn't like it when the modulars did away with the generic faces, but now that we're there they might as well go all the way and make the black musicians actually black. It's more realistic and it would be more fun for black kids to have minifigs that look more like them. All the "it's tradition" and "it's policy" excuses are just that, excuses. "Leave the kids' toys alone" and "must we bring race into everything" is also bullshit. The race/colour issues have always been there, (white) people just never noticed.
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Dec 16, 2022 15:27
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the holy poopacy posted:Change the default minifig skin tone to green. Nobody gets representation! To hell with purple people!
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Dec 16, 2022 15:27
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The light-year xl-15 had both a black man and a black woman who was old. Another reason why it's a good set
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Dec 16, 2022 15:33
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graventy posted:This is a remarkably lame excuse to continue doing the same thing we've always done. "It's policy!" Garbage answer. It isn't a hard issue or one to make lightly. They have the capabilities to do it, have done it before, and can decide to do whatever they want to do - like making gigantic collector sets or raising prices across the year after setting record or near record profits. It is something they are actively choosing to do by not changing their "policy". I absolutely hate the excuse of not changing something because it goes against tradition or policy or is something we haven't done before - no poo poo, that's why it is called change.
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Dec 16, 2022 15:40
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