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Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!
Is posting Archive.org links allowed? I found one of Inquest from the month Exodus was released because I thought I remembered LED being bulk for a long time.

Edit: just thought it'd be best to ask first, it is still technically copyrighted material.


Leperflesh posted:

because it's a link to a scan of a copyrighted work

Is this available from Wizards in any form?

Honestly not that important, just an interesting nostalgia trip.

Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Dec 16, 2022

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flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes
why would that ever not be allowed

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

because it's a link to a scan of a copyrighted work

Is this available from Wizards in any form?

e. I have no idea what the legality is of the internet archive, honestly it feels like it should be fine because they seem to get away with making copies of everything... but I do not know, and my default position has to be not to link to stuff like that, because that's the mandate from upon high.

If it's actually important I can ask for a ruling.

e. I've done a little reading and it looks to me like if you link to a library listing on archive you're probably in the clear, but if you link to some random archived URL that happens to be someone's scan of a thing, they don't guarantee at all that that's kosher. So, :shrug: it seems to me like that magazine probably falls under our general don't-link-it policy, since the publisher (wizards) is still in business/it's not "abandonware" level of stuff.

I am sorry.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Dec 16, 2022

Bell_
Sep 3, 2006

Tiny Baltimore
A billion light years away
A goon's posting the same thing
But he's already turned to dust
And the shitpost we read
Is a billion light-years old
A ghost just like the rest of us

LGD posted:

LED spent a significant amount of its existence as a bulk rare with no meaningful constructed applications, it didn't really come into its own until the mid 2000's (which is now ancient history ofc but there was still like a full decade between Mirage and Dissension)

e:

I'd say that those are pretty different cases though, because while all cards are meta/context dependent Necropotence more or less immediately made the entire nascent tournament scene revolve entirely around it and the "worst card in the set" initial evaluation was infamous just as quickly, people only thought it was "bad" because of how information spread in the early/pre-internet era and Necro's downsides being obvious and its strengths less so if you don't really "get" how magic works in terms of resource acquisition and tempo

in contrast a ton of people spent a lot of time trying to break LED because it's a loving black lotus (with downside), and it really didn't ever work until a critical mass of supporting cards was reached years down the line, iirc it was sort of infamous as a trap card for brewers
Early Necropotence had to deal with Vice Age until Black Vice was restricted.

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

Is posting Archive.org links allowed? I found one of Inquest from the month Exodus was released because I thought I remembered LED being bulk for a long time.

Edit: just thought it'd be best to ask first, it is still technically copyrighted material.

Honestly not that important, just an interesting nostalgia trip.

We've been linking those in the thread without issue for at least a decade now.

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Leperflesh posted:

because it's a link to a scan of a copyrighted work

Is this available from Wizards in any form?

e. I have no idea what the legality is of the internet archive, honestly it feels like it should be fine because they seem to get away with making copies of everything... but I do not know, and my default position has to be not to link to stuff like that, because that's the mandate from upon high.

If it's actually important I can ask for a ruling.

e. I've done a little reading and it looks to me like if you link to a library listing on archive you're probably in the clear, but if you link to some random archived URL that happens to be someone's scan of a thing, they don't guarantee at all that that's kosher. So, :shrug: it seems to me like that magazine probably falls under our general don't-link-it policy, since the publisher (wizards) is still in business/it's not "abandonware" level of stuff.

I am sorry.

Wizard is defunct. They stop publishing media years ago and they shuttered their last convention last year. They were delisted from the financial markets, all their websites are down, and they have no assets.

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!
i'm actually shocked that wizards didn't try to sell NFTs. maybe that is coming though.

Weird Pumpkin
Oct 7, 2007

Toshimo posted:

LED and Necropotence we're both maligned in Scryfall/Inquest as garbage for years and that got parroted by dumbs for twice as long.

Did people just never think to crack LED with a spell on the stack or something?

If you never thought about that honestly I can totally imagine someone looking at it and thinking it's useless trash. You gotta discard your whole hand? For three mana? Pshhh

Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

Weird Pumpkin posted:

Did people just never think to crack LED with a spell on the stack or something?

If you never thought about that honestly I can totally imagine someone looking at it and thinking it's useless trash. You gotta discard your whole hand? For three mana? Pshhh

The problem was that for a while there wasn't really anything powerful to do after that point. Sure you could set up something on the top of your deck with brainstorm and then cast a draw spell and crack LED with it on the stack but that didn't accomplish much.

Even bomberman combo wasn't a useful enabler of anything. Infinite mana with 0 cards in your hand doesn't do much unless you had very specific cards on the board already, and fragile 3+ card combos have almost always sucked especially in formats where control is very prevalent like old Type 1.

Weird Pumpkin
Oct 7, 2007

Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:

The problem was that for a while there wasn't really anything powerful to do after that point. Sure you could set up something on the top of your deck with brainstorm and then cast a draw spell and crack LED with it on the stack but that didn't accomplish much.

Even bomberman combo wasn't a useful enabler of anything. Infinite mana with 0 cards in your hand doesn't do much unless you had very specific cards on the board already, and fragile 3+ card combos have almost always sucked especially in formats where control is very prevalent like old Type 1.

Oh that's true yeah, I guess without a draw engine like Ad Nauseum (or the more powerful ones I suppose) you just sort of end up with nothing to do with the mana

Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received

mcmagic posted:

i'm actually shocked that wizards didn't try to sell NFTs. maybe that is coming though.

NFTs are trying to be what cards already were, so why would they?

Barry Shitpeas
Dec 17, 2003

there is no need
to be upset

Winner POTM July 2013
I mean even now LED is just a combo piece, it's not a generally strong card

Charity Porno
Aug 2, 2021

by Hand Knit
I remember that Inquest and they weren't wrong. It wasn't until many many many years later LED was anything other than a bulk rare

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Couch Life posted:

Last Jace card was Mirror Mage in ZNR, right? Been a few years then.

The last eternal legal Jace card is, sadly, SPACE BELEREN from the unset

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011

Couch Life posted:

Last Jace card was Mirror Mage in ZNR, right? Been a few years then.

The original Gatewatch planeswalkers were barely present after the WotS (none of them appear in ELD, THB, IKO, KHM, AFR, MID, NEO, SNC, and BRO). People didn't like them as much as they thought, so they took the focus away from them.

Judgy Fucker
Mar 24, 2006

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

NFTs are trying to be what cards already were, so why would they?

:homebrew:

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

NFTs are trying to be what cards already were, so why would they?

Because one of these things is a gamepiece in a game and the other isn't.

The Nastier Nate
May 22, 2005

All aboard the corona bus!

HONK! HONK!


Yams Fan

flatluigi posted:

yeah there's a lot of cards like that that weren't really seen as entirely busted until more cards came later. i'm sure fuckin lion's eye diamond seemed reasonable once

I definetly cracked at least one LED in middle school and was extremely pissed it wasn’t a Hammer of Bogardon

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

Has anyone else been dinking around with Explorer post EA2? If you play a deck that at least goes even against Mono G it's a lot of fun. I find the Mono-W vs Rakdos/Mono-G/Greasefang matchups to be really rewarding and interesting which sort of makes up for the lack of diversity.

Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get,
the more I feel like laughing.



fadam posted:

Has anyone else been dinking around with Explorer post EA2? If you play a deck that at least goes even against Mono G it's a lot of fun. I find the Mono-W vs Rakdos/Mono-G/Greasefang matchups to be really rewarding and interesting which sort of makes up for the lack of diversity.

What's your mono-W list? I've been sticking with Gruul Vehicles mostly but feel like I'm ready to change things up a little bit.

Mezzanon
Sep 16, 2003

Pillbug

fadam posted:

Has anyone else been dinking around with Explorer post EA2? If you play a deck that at least goes even against Mono G it's a lot of fun. I find the Mono-W vs Rakdos/Mono-G/Greasefang matchups to be really rewarding and interesting which sort of makes up for the lack of diversity.

I’ve been playing 4c pyre of heroes and it’s surprisingly good and fun

Mezzanon fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Dec 17, 2022

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

Mat Cauthon posted:

What's your mono-W list? I've been sticking with Gruul Vehicles mostly but feel like I'm ready to change things up a little bit.

RG Vehicles is a sick deck, I just hate it into Mono G and that’s like 75% of my games.

I just popped out so I don’t have a list, but it’s basically whatever you can find on Goldfish with an extra 2/1 guy to sub for baby Gideon and my sideboard has four pieces of instant speed removal to hedge against Greasefang.

Mezzanon posted:

I’ve been playing 4c pure of heroes and it’s surprisingly good and fun

Is that a autocorrect for fires, incarnation, or both lol? In either case I think that deck is so rad but it’s way too fiddly for me. That 3 CMC mass o-ring is an insane card.

Bugsy
Jul 15, 2004

I'm thumpin'. That's
why they call me
'Thumper'.


Slippery Tilde
That should by pyre of heroes?

Something like this: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/pioneer-4c-humans#paper

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

Mezzanon, you crazy.

Mezzanon
Sep 16, 2003

Pillbug

Bugsy posted:

That should by pyre of heroes?

Something like this: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/pioneer-4c-humans#paper

Close but mine has no green. Still 4c though.



fadam posted:

Mezzanon, you crazy.

Deck is extremely fun to play. Just waiting for bloodsoaked champion to be printed on arena to replace these arch fiends vessels

Mezzanon fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Dec 17, 2022

Yoked
Apr 3, 2007


I am trying UW humans right now because I want to cast Reflector Mage.

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



its kinda weird, I've been watching a lot of streamers and there's MUCH less mono-g at high ranks than there is in like, gold. I guess find a deck that does well and climb past all the idiots who just pick it to get free wins sometimes

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

A Moose posted:

its kinda weird, I've been watching a lot of streamers and there's MUCH less mono-g at high ranks than there is in like, gold. I guess find a deck that does well and climb past all the idiots who just pick it to get free wins sometimes

This hasn't been my experience trying to get out of Diamond yesterday and today. It's the sweatiest rank and everyone is on G devotion lol. I'm pretty sure it is the best deck by a sliver over Mono W and RB.

EDIT: Speaking of, god bless the back half of Reidane. Absolute mirror buster


First mono W mirror I've played since the EA drop. The deck is insanely gas, and playing something that's relatively immune to Thoughtseize rocks. I think my on the draw winrate has to be awful tho lol.

fadam fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Dec 17, 2022

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

A Moose posted:

its kinda weird, I've been watching a lot of streamers and there's MUCH less mono-g at high ranks than there is in like, gold. I guess find a deck that does well and climb past all the idiots who just pick it to get free wins sometimes

Mono G isn't that great. I was pretty unimpressed with it especially in BO1 where it just loses to a ton of decks on the draw.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

mcmagic posted:

Mono G isn't that great. I was pretty unimpressed with it especially in BO1 where it just loses to a ton of decks on the draw.

Could not disagree more, but you couldn't pay me to play Bo1. IDK when the next Explorer* tournament is but I'm interested to see what gets played. The meta at the last one was all weird compared to Pioneer because the mono W and G decks were missing important pieces.

fadam fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Dec 17, 2022

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

fadam posted:

Could not disagree more, but you couldn't pay me to play Bo1. IDK when the next Explorer* tournament is but I'm interested to see what gets played. The meta at the last one was all weird compared to Historic because the mono W and G decks were missing important pieces.

Do you mean compared to Pioneer? Because Historic is NOTHING like Explorer.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

mcmagic posted:

Do you mean compared to Pioneer? Because Historic is NOTHING like Explorer.

I got my fake digital only formats confused.

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

fadam posted:

I got my fake digital only formats confused.

TBH Mono G in Pioneer is also a tad overrated. It's usually the biggest or second biggest meta share at big tournaments and has a pretty terrible win rate against the field.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

mcmagic posted:

TBH Mono G in Pioneer is also a tad overrated. It's usually the biggest or second biggest meta share at big tournaments and has a pretty terrible win rate against the field.

It might be overrated (I don't think so) but I think it's match up spread is totally fine. Recent events have been kind of weird with Lotus combo coming back from out of nowhere, but Mono G still consistently makes it to top tables. If I was going to a Pioneer tournament tomorrow I'd play it I think.

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

fadam posted:

It might be overrated (I don't think so) but I think it's match up spread is totally fine. Recent events have been kind of weird with Lotus combo coming back from out of nowhere, but Mono G still consistently makes it to top tables. If I was going to a Pioneer tournament tomorrow I'd play it I think.

It's a fine deck to play, it's just not Tier 0 like people thought it was a month or so ago.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

mcmagic posted:

It's a fine deck to play, it's just not Tier 0 like people thought it was a month or so ago.

Yeah, I think it's probably on balance better than Mono W or RB or Lotus, but I don't think it's miles better. I think until the rest of Phoenix comes to Arena or everyone jumps ship to Mono W it's the deck to be playing if you can stomach the mirror.

fadam fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Dec 17, 2022

jpmeyer
Jan 17, 2012

parody image of che
it only took until urza's saga came out for people to start taking led seriously in (non-vintage) decks

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty
amazon is dumping again, some stuff is already sold out(crimson vow booster boxes were 60 bucks) but stuff like crimson vow collector boxes at 115 and dominaria united collector boxes at 154 are still active, as well as strixhaven and new capenna draft boxes for cheap. also some commander decks being truly dumped for 40-60% off
https://smile.amazon.com/stores/page/34E30745-6BA8-4E8B-9B17-34078791329B

generatrix
Aug 8, 2008

Nothing hurts like a scrape

big cummers ONLY posted:

Cubamajigs are great. I have 25 packs of Jumpstart 2020 sleeved up and cubamajigged. Each one is juuuust barely big enough to hold twenty sleeved cards and the title card thingy.

I made an order right after this post. The only shipping options were “2 day / expensive” or “1 day / stupidly expensive” so I figured I’d be getting stuff fairly soon.

Is it normal for them to just sit on an order for a week with no updates?

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Serf
May 5, 2011


generatrix posted:

I made an order right after this post. The only shipping options were “2 day / expensive” or “1 day / stupidly expensive” so I figured I’d be getting stuff fairly soon.

Is it normal for them to just sit on an order for a week with no updates?

I haven't ordered from them yet, but things are really rough with shipping at the moment. My MPC order never said it shipped and then just arrived out of the blue one day. My Card Kingdom order also never said it shipped and it just arrived yesterday.

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