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Neo Rasa posted:This and how it ended with Luke dying also had me genuinely hype for episode 9, because I just figured there'd be a some kind of substantial time jump or something, or more about Luke's/the Jedi's legendary status effecting people or whatever instead of the absolute dogshit episode 9 we got instead. I mean to be fair I don't remember the trevorrow script dealing with any of that in any substantial way either. For good or for ill it was a pretty big ask in terms of story structure going into act 3
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Dec 15, 2022 23:01
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No Mods No Masters posted:I mean to be fair I don't remember the trevorrow script dealing with any of that in any substantial way either. For good or for ill it was a pretty big ask in terms of story structure going into act 3 Let me put it another way, I felt like they left the playing field open enough that they could do whatever they wanted. Instead they just reset everything to the bloodline chosen one and rebels vs. the evil empire and their emperor, and that was massively disappointing in addition to the various other issues people have with the flick.
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Dec 15, 2022 23:04
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I guess the problem with that I see, with screenwriter brain, is that this was leading into the third of three movies. It necessarily can't spend that much time reestablishing the whole setting. In star wars 5 they set up something comparatively simple like "we need to get han back" and in the event it eats up 40 minutes of the next movie. I feel like if you actually wanted to follow up on rian stuff, like rebuilding the reistance from scratch, how you deal with the MIC, spreading the gospel of luke, whatever, you needed it to be a quadrilogy. It's returning to a very boring refrain of ITT at this point, but the things rian was trying to do there required much more planning with whoever was coming after him
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Dec 15, 2022 23:14
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:If you're one of those people who thinks that BvS was too dark and grim and gritty and serious, you should know that Terrio lightened it up and removed at least one comically tone-def "edgy" scene. Why would anyone ever believe executives when they blame things on writers? That's like blaming the dog for doing your homework.
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Dec 15, 2022 23:14
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Robot Style posted:If anyone's interested I made a video that goes more in-depth into all the stuff that seems to have made the movie turn out the way it did. I really liked this video!
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Dec 15, 2022 23:17
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Robot Style posted:Originally Abrams' version of the movie opened with Finn and Poe meeting with an informant on Kijimi who told them about the First Order building a massive fleet in deep space, but that Babu Frik's people, who had spent their lives as slave labor working in the tiny crevices inside Star Destroyers, had discovered a weakness in the design that could be exploited by a MacGuffin device. Unfortunately the device was still missing some crucial components and wasn't usable. I'll for sure check out the video, thanks. Any idea if this draft was still more or less intact when filming began? Seems plausible given the footage we have and the fact that FX wouldn't be completed until much later. If the "sabotage brick" was scrapped during the editing process, it would explain why the objective of the space battle is so muddled (Star Destroyers can't leave the planet's atmosphere if Finn and friends destroy a navigation tower)
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Dec 15, 2022 23:39
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Also, rian himself really gave whoever was coming after him a huge out to ignore everything he set up, because even star wars 8 itself kinda ignores everything he set up. The MIC problem is stated, agreed upon, and disappears instantly from the plot. The possibility of any interesting change for the first order is foreclosed by kylo's boring heel turn. Leia's terrible smug final line of the movie itself states that it's not that much of a problem that all the resisters died. This is all usually framed as star wars 8 vs star wars 9, but really I think there's quite a strong case to be made about the first 70% of star wars 8 vs the last 30% of star wars 8
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Dec 15, 2022 23:42
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Neo Rasa posted:This and how it ended with Luke dying also had me genuinely hype for episode 9, because I just figured there'd be a some kind of substantial time jump or something, or more about Luke's/the Jedi's legendary status effecting people or whatever instead of the absolute dogshit episode 9 we got instead. I don't know, I came out of Last Jedi feeling pretty strongly that any follow-up was going to be an anti-climax. Like the movie or not, it felt like a capstone to most of the characters' arcs and just to Star Wars in general. Yeah, the actual war was still unresolved, but TFA and TLJ had invested so little into that aspect of it that it was hard to be very invested in the nuts and bolts of "how will the Resistance beat the First Order?" Like Leia basically says at the end, "I dunno, we'll figure some poo poo out." And they did- The End.
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Dec 15, 2022 23:45
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General Dog posted:Any idea if this draft was still more or less intact when filming began? Sort of - Abrams had to pitch that version of the movie to Bob Iger at the end of 2017 (about 3 months after he was hired), with location scouting and casting set to begin in the new year, so adding new locations and characters was going to be harder as time went on - they basically had to decide what was going to be in the movie before they knew why it was in the movie. They started filming in August 2018, and all the Exegol concept art that's publically available is from June, so it seems to have been a pretty late change. They were also still having prop meetings to decide what the Knife MacGuffin was going to be around that time (with other options being stuff like a scroll or a lightsaber), so a lot of big changes were happening right down to the wire. I think the sabotage brick was cut well before filming happened, but it took them longer to figure out what would replace it.
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Dec 15, 2022 23:54
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The Last Jedi set up the Resistance recruiting huge numbers of child Jedi soldiers to fight the First Order's child soldier stormtroopers, allowing young fans to finally see themselves participating in the Star Wars. It would've been marketing heaven. Imagine the "I'm doing my part" scene from Starship Troopers with a sweeping John Williams score e: It was really funny how the end of TLJ shows kids acting out Luke's last stand with little figures. Then in TROS they go to a planet where everyone is doing puppet shows with little figures and it's got no fuckin sign of Luke at all. General Battuta fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 01:03
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Robot Style posted:If anyone's interested I made a video that goes more in-depth into all the stuff that seems to have made the movie turn out the way it did. Hey I watched this months ago and it was really good!
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Dec 16, 2022 01:03
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"We have everything we need," smiled Leia beatifically, envisioning her army of child soldiers
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Dec 16, 2022 01:15
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No Mods No Masters posted:"We have everything we need," smiled Leia beatifically, envisioning her army of child soldiers “Never underestimate a droid [army]”
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Dec 16, 2022 02:04
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The best part of episode 9 is how Lucas didn't attend the premiere and as far as I know never offered any comments on the film
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Dec 16, 2022 03:47
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https://youtu.be/vCqDU7U0r7k Like seriously, just watch these 2 minutes. It's wild how lazy this writing is, even if the timeline excuses are true.
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Dec 16, 2022 05:33
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The sound of Oscar Isaac's career straining to continue keeping on creaks out; "Somehow, Palpatine returned".
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Dec 16, 2022 05:36
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I mean, it's understandable why, but those scenes of people just monologing large expanses of plot to Leia, who simply responds with single word responses are just so badly done. But those are at least excused by the actors passing - the whole rest of that scene is almost exactly the same example of awkward dialog exposition to explain a bunch of narrative that would have been established in a prior film that doesn't exist.
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Dec 16, 2022 05:49
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I'm not even sure it's excusable because they didn't even have two years after Carrie Fisher passed, they had almost three. That is MORE than enough time to figure out how to write a character out whose actor has passed. You had so many options and you went with the Plan 9 one.
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Dec 16, 2022 06:14
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Maxwell Lord posted:I'm not even sure it's excusable because they didn't even have two years after Carrie Fisher passed, they had almost three. Episode 8 also had a perfect opportunity to write her out but onstead opted for the Force Mary Poppins way to drag Leia along. I guess you have to have one iconic death per episode, but can't have two.
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Dec 16, 2022 06:46
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well why not posted:The sound of Oscar Isaac's career straining to continue keeping on creaks out; "Somehow, Palpatine returned". I am amazed we got footage of someone's soul leaving their body
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Dec 16, 2022 07:32
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Grendels Dad posted:Episode 8 also had a perfect opportunity to write her out but onstead opted for the Force Mary Poppins way to drag Leia along. I guess you have to have one iconic death per episode, but can't have two. I’m hazy on the timeframe, but wasn’t there enough time to not have her save herself without major time shoots and have someone else take het parts?
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Dec 16, 2022 07:54
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They would have had to delay the movie. To my knowledge rian never wanted that anyway, but even if he had I think it was absolutely not going to happen
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Dec 16, 2022 08:02
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She died about a year before TLJ's release. Enough time to change things (at a significant cost) but it's also not Johnson's fault that Abrams took a stupid option.
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Dec 16, 2022 08:34
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All the Leia stuff was shite, but most egregious was "Never underestimate a droid" and how they ended up writing like 3 other chunks of dialogue to make it fit and make it so that her line ended up being a callback or salient bit of wisdom. Of all the things wrong with RoS, writing around a couple of minutes of Ep7 B-roll is just loving baffling to me. Just kill her off screen you morons, it's not like the audience didn't know Fisher had died.
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Dec 16, 2022 09:24
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Schwarzwald posted:TLJ is a perfectly okay film but it is absolutely just more of the same Star Wars as before. Yeah I don't hate it with a passion or anything but people keep trying to tell me how clever it is when it is just as repetitive. It's the prettiest of the new ones, even if it is dumb. The ultra powerful Jedi actually is just an old hermit living in the rear end end of nowhere. A totally new concept for someone who apparently missed Yoda and Obi Wan. Mind blown! The Emperor tries to get his apprentice to be totally evil and kill the new Jedi but instead, the Apprentice kills the Emperor! Wow! What a subversion of expectations! The Rebels hide out in a bunker on a snow planet and get attacked by walkers and then they fly away! Never saw it coming! Mr. Grapes! fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 09:35
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TLJ's main innovation is that it occasionally thinks about ripping off the PT instead of the OT ("The Jedi are actually useless at best, terrible at worst!" "The war is actually just a fraud being puppeteered by corporate interests!"), but then quickly walks all that back by the end and forgets about it.
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Dec 16, 2022 09:40
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Yeah like they want to rip off Empire Strikes back but that ended with kind of 'sad but hopeful' with the Rebels on the run. TLJ has basically everyone get wiped out and no one really cares, Rey is happy, so all is well. The entire sequel trilogy has a bad case of everyone already knowing Rey is the main character. Her bland story is the only one that matters, her will-they won't-they horny crush on the Hitlerjugend. Everything else is secondary, the war is irrelevant. I think it can be summed up best when Leia gives this complete stranger a big hug at the end of TFA instead of Chewbacca, her husband's BFF for life.
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Dec 16, 2022 09:46
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She probably doesn't like  he's an alien and she's a human supremacist like most Republicans He only got his medal over her dead body, she kept it from him the whole time lol
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Dec 16, 2022 10:07
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Mr. Grapes! posted:Yeah I don't hate it with a passion or anything but people keep trying to tell me how clever it is when it is just as repetitive. It's the prettiest of the new ones, even if it is dumb. The innovation is that only part of the first example and the last example
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Dec 16, 2022 11:19
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Robot Style posted:If anyone's interested I made a video that goes more in-depth into all the stuff that seems to have made the movie turn out the way it did. This is a fantastic video, well done. I literally had just finished Going Rogue and was driving home, thinking that I'd love to hear someone deep dive into why Rise of the Skywalker turned out the way it did, in a similar 'examine the production' way, and low and behold this was posted.
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Dec 16, 2022 12:09
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Elias_Maluco posted:Now that would have been ineresting There's a Kingdom Hearts joke in there. Not even getting into how I'm pretty sure the next game will have Star Wars. Also Marvel and the Simpsons, of course. Grendels Dad posted:The innovation is that only part of the first example and the last example TLJ is truly bizarre tone-wise. Honestly there's something very offputtingly cynical about it basically trying to have its cake and eat it too, bringing up issues and then basically just forgetting about them or waving them off as unimportant.
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Dec 16, 2022 14:48
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Ghost Leviathan posted:TLJ is truly bizarre tone-wise. Honestly there's something very offputtingly cynical about it basically trying to have its cake and eat it too, bringing up issues and then basically just forgetting about them or waving them off as unimportant. That's expected though, I go into any movie $$$ budget movie with the mindset of like okay how much does this attempt to say something while already being compromised by default from having so many cooks in the kitchen. Obviously in that regard the entire ST is crap compared to us getting Andor now, but of the three sequel trilogy flicks I definitely like TLJ the most overall for this even with it sharing the slapped together choppiness of the other two movies. Of the three it feels the most like An Effort Was Made. And while I do praise it overall, everything with Leia/Poe in the third act is massively flubbed, it just gets overshadowed by my liking how they handled Luke's last fight/death. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 15:33
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The finger snappy Rey parade scene was dope.
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Dec 16, 2022 15:48
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Blood Boils posted:She probably doesn't like In the rough draft of The Empire Strikes Back, Leia was also racist towards Lando (because he was a clone). I wonder if her being nice to the Ewoks was supposed to be the culmination of a character arc that only George Lucas knew about. I imagine him having story meetings with Richard Marquand and Lawrence Kasdan and just blurting out "well we can't trim the Ewok scenes - we need to show that Leia's not racist anymore" and everyone else just staring at him, unable to comprehend why those words came out of his mouth in that order.
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Dec 16, 2022 18:14
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Robot Style posted:In the rough draft of The Empire Strikes Back, Leia was also racist towards Lando (because he was a clone). This is now my favorite post in this thread
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Dec 16, 2022 18:19
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General Dog posted:-How late of an addition was Ian MacDiarmid as Palpatine? So late he’s not at all mentioned in the RoS visual dictionary. And I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.. it didn’t even have to be “our” palps, he should have been a hosed up clone created by the cultists. That’s why he’s hosed up and now Vaders sacrifice isn’t meaningless anymore.
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Dec 16, 2022 18:36
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TLJ's biggest flaw, besides being two movies awkwardly crammed together, was not swapping Leia for Holdo in the hyperspace ramming attack. Carrie Fisher is gone, and you've got Laura Freaking Dern right there. Have Leia go out big, and then pass the torch to Holdo for the third movie. An unbelievable mised opportunity.
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Dec 16, 2022 19:04
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mllaneza posted:TLJ's biggest flaw, besides being two movies awkwardly crammed together, was not swapping Leia for Holdo in the hyperspace ramming attack. Carrie Fisher is gone, and you've got Laura Freaking Dern right there. Have Leia go out big, and then pass the torch to Holdo for the third movie. An unbelievable mised opportunity. TLJ never commits to anything, it's its biggest sin.
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Dec 16, 2022 19:12
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You do have to wonder if rian was just like, too proud to adjust around her passing away, thought the movie was honoring her somehow as it was (?????), wanted to change it but it never got reported, or what. I've said it before but that's the one area where I am sympathetic to JJ wrt star wars 9. Yeah they should have just written her out obviously but if the studio denied that option, well he was just hosed
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Dec 16, 2022 19:12
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The most baffling thing about the sequel trilogy isn't how a movie as bad as RoS gets made, but how Disney let a movie like TLJ made if they got such cold feet immediately after it was released. Why let Rian Johnson come in, smash all the toys that were so precious to the fanboys, and then immediately remove him and try to whitewash everything he tried to do? It's pathetic. I don't love TLJ, it has some huge problems. But the most interesting parts of TLJ are precisely the things that pissed people off the most, what they did with Luke, Kylo, Rey's history, etc. TLJ would be a stronger film if it *committed* to the things it supposedly committed to. Like, if it did kill Leia instead of a random character who was just introduced. If Rey actually *did* forsake the Jedi books or whatever, instead of having them in a random drawer in the the Millennium Falcon. Or heck, take a real risk and have her join Kylo for a time. That's actually a fun little twist, akin to what ESB did! What does the film do with the revelation that the New Order and the Republic both buy from the same arms dealers? Well, nothing really. Props to the film for even dipping a toe into these waters, but it immediately recoiled once it realized the water was cold.
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Dec 16, 2022 19:20
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