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Nuns with Guns posted:I like when the lightsaber does the "VRUM" sound and I occasionally like when it hits another lightsaber and does the "KSSSH" sound. 
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Dec 17, 2022 19:05
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MonsieurChoc posted:The prequels are fine movies that are not as good as the originals and nerds have still not forgiven them for this. The prequels are mediocre movies. Not amazing but not egregiously terrible. The problem is that they will not just go away the way most mediocre movies from 2002 with ham-fisted dialogue have. Attack of the Clones was the fourth grossing movie of 2002, behind The Two Towers, Spider-Man, and Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. I'd say it's talked about more than any of those despite being worse than at least the first two and probably all three. If it were just talked about the way the next three are (Men In Black II, Die Another Day, Signs) then it would not get the dislike it gets after all this time.
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Dec 17, 2022 19:08
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signs is not a mediocre movie, its good and rules
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Dec 17, 2022 19:20
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Snooze Cruise posted:signs is not a mediocre movie, Snooze Cruise posted:its good and rules
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Dec 17, 2022 19:24
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Signs is like two or three all-time greatest horror movie scenes inexplicably lodged in a mountain of poo poo
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Dec 17, 2022 19:29
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neonchameleon posted:The prequels are mediocre movies. Not amazing but not egregiously terrible. The problem is that they will not just go away the way most mediocre movies from 2002 with ham-fisted dialogue have. Attack of the Clones was the fourth grossing movie of 2002, behind The Two Towers, Spider-Man, and Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. I'd say it's talked about more than any of those despite being worse than at least the first two and probably all three. If it were just talked about the way the next three are (Men In Black II, Die Another Day, Signs) then it would not get the dislike it gets after all this time. They're part of a huge franchise that hasn't died yet. People will not stop talking about Star Wars until it dies. Sequels tried their best but they didn't manage to kill the franchise yet.
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Dec 17, 2022 20:05
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One thing I will say, the prequels were infinitely more memeable than the sequels. "I have the high ground!", "I don't like sand", "Now THIS is podracing", "Only a sith deals in absolutes", etc. They're mostly memeable because they're bad, but maybe that's better than being completely forgettable like the sequels were? I don't know.
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Dec 17, 2022 20:35
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They're mostly memeable because they're good. All the Plinkett stuff is just the equivalent of those inane but enduring WoW comparisons.
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Dec 17, 2022 21:01
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Please, please have higher standards for movies. There are good movies out there. You don't have to live like this.
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Dec 17, 2022 21:27
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I can accept that sometimes it's better to be memorable than good. Dune 2021 is objectively a better movie than Lynch Dune, but Lynch Dune will stick with me until the day I die.
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Dec 17, 2022 21:28
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Colonel Cool posted:One thing I will say, the prequels were infinitely more memeable than the sequels. "I have the high ground!", "I don't like sand", "Now THIS is podracing", "Only a sith deals in absolutes", etc. They're mostly memeable because they're bad, but maybe that's better than being completely forgettable like the sequels were? They're mostly memeable because Lucas writes bad dialogue. There's only one good one in the Prequels - Revenge of the Sith (with the other two basically being stalling for time until it happens). There's also only one good one in the Sequels - The Last Jedi, which is both the one that got political hate and gave Star Wars fans what they didn't expect in a similar way to Empire back in the day. And I don't know that Rise Of Skywalker ("Somehow Palpatine Returned", "And I am all the Jedi", plus a whole lot of visual memes) is any less memeable than the Prequels. It's also a worse film than any of the Prequels.
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Dec 17, 2022 21:29
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Tulip posted:Please, please have higher standards for movies. There are good movies out there. You don't have to live like this. People should watch more movies in general, and less big budget hollywood stuff. There's a whole world out there!
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Dec 17, 2022 21:34
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MonsieurChoc posted:People should watch more movies in general, and less big budget hollywood stuff. There's a whole world out there! Exactly. Before anyone argues about loving Star Wars again, think about the fact that Banshees of Inisherin just came out on VOD. Go watch some actual art.
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Dec 17, 2022 21:36
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Tulip posted:Please, please have higher standards for movies. There are good movies out there. You don't have to live like this. I have pretty high standards for games, too, and there's a ton of metrics on which 4e falls short or just fails when it comes to slow resolution, tedious accountancy, poor monster balance, feat and item bloat, etcetera. Years down the line we can look back and enumerate flaw after flaw. Nevertheless, it was good, and I stand by the originals->prequels/pre-4e->4e comparison. There was simply no logical other place to go, and we're all better off for having journeyed there.
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Dec 17, 2022 22:01
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mellonbread posted:I can accept that sometimes it's better to be memorable than good. Dune 2021 is objectively a better movie than Lynch Dune, but Lynch Dune will stick with me until the day I die. but... but lynch's dune is also just objectively better... Tulip posted:Please, please have higher standards for movies. There are good movies out there. You don't have to live like this. i am brave enough to like both signs and picnic at hanging rock
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Dec 17, 2022 22:09
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Xiahou Dun posted:Go watch some actual art. gently caress 'art' for a second here. Let's just talk about regular-rear end popular movies. How do we still have prequel defenders when we just had a decade where all of the oxygen in popular movies was taken up by a franchise of 20+ movies that are basically all better than the prequels? And I say that as someone who actually likes Revenge of the Sith a fair bit and would say it's better than a fair few of the worse MCU movies.
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Dec 17, 2022 22:17
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It's just a little tiresome to roll up to the box office and see that they're now screening Iron Man 27, yet another paean about the essential goodness of the CIA.
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Dec 17, 2022 22:20
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People who say the Prequels are bad have never seen an actually bad movie
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Dec 17, 2022 22:21
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It is entirely possible for something to be bad while still having an enormous room to go before hitting rock bottom. The existence of The Redwood Massacre does not drop the bar so much that all other movies go up a rank.\ edit: though for any flaws the prequels were better than the overwhelming majority of MCU movies. Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Dec 17, 2022 |
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Dec 17, 2022 22:28
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Magnetic North posted:gently caress 'art' for a second here. Let's just talk about regular-rear end popular movies. How do we still have prequel defenders when we just had a decade where all of the oxygen in popular movies was taken up by a franchise of 20+ movies that are basically all better than the prequels? And I say that as someone who actually likes Revenge of the Sith a fair bit and would say it's better than a fair few of the worse MCU movies. Why yes, you bring another point in favor of the prequels: That they have an actual vision, even if a flawed one from Lucas and aren't the most cynical dreck ever made like the MCU.
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Dec 17, 2022 22:29
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Asterite34 posted:People who say the Prequels are bad have never seen an actually bad movie The sequels are bad movies, but they're not bad in the sense of Things(a must-watch, by the way) or something actually offensive. They're bad in the way that you are being served cardboard with a bit of salt on top and a multivitamin on the side, that someone's scribbled a fancy title on with a felt pen, when you could in fact be eating something both nourishing and delicious. You can't really hate them because they don't have any kind of character or presence, but doesn't make them good, that just makes them bad and boring, instead of the sort of inspiring badness you get when someone has a vision but neither a real budget nor any real skill, talent or knowledge.
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Dec 17, 2022 23:10
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No Star Wars movies are great, only one is unequivocally good , and two are arguably good. The rest are fine ideas executed to varying degrees of mediocrity, except for Rise which is actively terrible.  A New Hope is one of the worst of the batch.
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Dec 17, 2022 23:10
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The prequel trilogy is not good. The films are poorly-directed and atrociously-scripted, squandering a cast of mostly good-to-great actors on some of the worst dialogue ever put in blockbuster films (which people remember, to this day, for being corny and bad). They're still a drat sight better than any of the Disney Star Wars films, and they at least feel like they have some kind of artist's vision behind them even if it's very poorly executed. They also have a bunch of cool ideas about Star Wars that are sort of there, or only there if you read between the lines, or only there in the supplementary spin-off material that read between the lines, but are still cool.
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Dec 17, 2022 |
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Dec 17, 2022 23:11
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Asterite34 posted:People who say the Prequels are bad have never seen an actually bad movie Honestly they offend my sensibilities far worse than Manos, The Hands of Fate or Batman and Robin or Left Behind. An actual bad movie can at least be interesting. The only defense I ever see mounted of the prequels is that somewhere in the pre-pre-prescript stages of the movies, there were some emotionally affirming ideas. Other than that its just boring and contrived. I want to feel something with art, which aggressively terrible stuff can at least provoke by accident. I don't even object to the dialogue exclusively - characters who just say "this is my thing, this is what I want to do, this is how I feel about it" are a staple of epics and that can be well executed. The problem is that every level of execution failed. And never spectacularly. Not a launch pad disaster, just the equivalent of "we forgot the fuel." Ferrinus posted:I have pretty high standards for games, too, and there's a ton of metrics on which 4e falls short or just fails when it comes to slow resolution, tedious accountancy, poor monster balance, feat and item bloat, etcetera. Years down the line we can look back and enumerate flaw after flaw. I mean my stance on 4e is that it's the best DnD, which still makes it a C- game at best. I've played a lot more 2nd & 3rd than 4th DnD and the idea that 2nd & 3rd offered any particular insight, vision, or interest that was lost in 4th seems absurd to me. 4th preserved all of that, but with a much greater degree of clarity and legibility. What was lost was not anything in 3rd ed, but the illusion that there was something going on.
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Dec 17, 2022 23:30
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Magnetic North posted:How do we still have prequel defenders when we just had a decade where all of the oxygen in popular movies was taken up by a franchise of 20+ movies that are basically all better than the prequels? Because the prequels are genuinely better than the Disney trilogy's incoherent pap. The prequels actually had an overarching vision, rather than the design-by-committee nonsense of what came after it. The prequels being good is an argument that was ultimately reignited by people finally witnessing what it would be like to see something outright worse than the prequels themselves.
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Dec 17, 2022 23:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:Because the prequels are genuinely better than the Disney trilogy's incoherent pap. The prequels actually had an overarching vision, rather than the design-by-committee nonsense of what came after it. Uhh that’s not what they were talking about.
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Dec 17, 2022 23:53
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I'm a prequel defender, but also I'm a "tired after 20 years of arguind about them" guy. I just don't give a poo poo if you don't like them or not. It's fine to like or dislike a thing.
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Dec 18, 2022 00:05
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4E is Thor: Ragnarok
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Dec 18, 2022 00:20
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Tulip posted:I mean my stance on 4e is that it's the best DnD, which still makes it a C- game at best. I've played a lot more 2nd & 3rd than 4th DnD and the idea that 2nd & 3rd offered any particular insight, vision, or interest that was lost in 4th seems absurd to me. 4th preserved all of that, but with a much greater degree of clarity and legibility. What was lost was not anything in 3rd ed, but the illusion that there was something going on. I broadly agree with you on this, and it's where I'm coming from re: Star Wars. In both cases an increasingly inflated perception of the importance of, basically, wizards was getting in the way of what the piece of media was actually about or worth paying attention to for.
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Dec 18, 2022 00:20
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If you like the prequels, I can't take that away from you. And I will always admire the ambition of some of the technology in them, since that was just before Sky Captain / Sin City and everything was computers forever, for good or ill. It's a period of blockbuster filmmaking I'm nostalgic for with the LOTR movies and The Matrix. But Menace is a bad movie (not awful, but bad, a real 3.8 roentgens) and Clones is a very, very bad movie. Also, you are allowed to like bad movies. I like the Tim Story Fantastic Four movies, and those movies are bad. But I don't point to the Josh Trank train-wreck and say that that proves that the Tim Story films were actually amazing the whole time. That would be silly.
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Dec 18, 2022 00:22
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Every Star Wars movie is bad except Empire. They're just bad in different ways and some of them are more interestingly bad than the others.
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Dec 18, 2022 00:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Signs is like two or three all-time greatest horror movie scenes inexplicably lodged in a mountain of poo poo As as Signs hater, please tell me what these are so I can look them up on youtube and reevaluate.
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Dec 18, 2022 00:40
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ninjoatse.cx posted:As as Signs hater, please tell me what these are so I can look them up on youtube and reevaluate. Umm Hmm The bit where m night shamalayan forgets that dew exists is worrying more than scary but let's say it counts.
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Dec 18, 2022 00:51
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Splicer posted:The scene on the TV where the alien is briefly filmed on someone's camera. I like how they decided to land on a place on the planet where the atmosphere is ~1-2% water vapor and then walk around without a space suit or anything. It'd be like one of us going to a planet where the atmosphere is sulfuric acid like Venus and just going for a stroll. I guess they held their breath. No wait, we see them breathing. poo poo.
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Dec 18, 2022 01:05
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Splicer posted:The scene on the TV where the alien is briefly filmed on someone's camera. that's mainly what i was thinking of, yeah i also genuinely like the alien trapped in the pantry bit but at that point i'm willing to admit to a certain degree of hyperbole
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Dec 18, 2022 01:06
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ninjoatse.cx posted:I like how they decided to land on a place on the planet where the atmosphere is ~1-2% water vapor and then walk around without a space suit or anything. It'd be like one of us going to a planet where the atmosphere is sulfuric acid like Venus and just going for a stroll. I guess they held their breath. No wait, we see them breathing. poo poo.
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Dec 18, 2022 01:56
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neonchameleon posted:The prequels are mediocre movies. Not amazing but not egregiously terrible. The problem is that they will not just go away the way most mediocre movies from 2002 with ham-fisted dialogue have. Attack of the Clones was the fourth grossing movie of 2002, behind The Two Towers, Spider-Man, and Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. I'd say it's talked about more than any of those despite being worse than at least the first two and probably all three. If it were just talked about the way the next three are (Men In Black II, Die Another Day, Signs) then it would not get the dislike it gets after all this time. I dunno, have you ever tried to talk about any other Spider-Man movie without some horrid nerd coming in to say nothing will ever be as good as Tobey "I'm a 35 year old high school student and my every expression radiates "Did I smell a fart just now"" Maguire?
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Dec 18, 2022 02:37
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Splicer posted:OH! The bit where the main character's goes "I'm glad the all powerful and loving God killed my wife and ruined my brother's career and gave my son life threatening asthma and caused whatever my daughter's thing about water glasses is (probably triggered by the death of her mother) so all these terrible things could combine briefly to inefficiently save us from one (1) alien that could have been defeated by a filled supersoaker, guess I believe in Him again" was kind of terrifying. And that the wife’s last words were a secret code for…. Hit the alien with a baseball bat that was right there, Uncle Former Professional Baseball Player. The water thing is dumb, but at least requires some knowledge about the aliens being weak to it. Meanwhile why the gently caress did he not have that baseball bat ready to swing the whole time?! Characters in comedy films still have that idea. (Also as to shots that work : the phone one is the only shot good enough to work despite the rest of the movie, but a lot of the other scenes are well done in isolation but in the context of the movie don’t play. Like the alien in the pantry with the knife reflection could be great… in another movie. Likewise a lot of the cornfield chase scenes work if you inexplicably have only seen them. But that’s because Fujimoto is enough of a legend he can save a lot of stuff.)
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Dec 18, 2022 02:58
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I think the prequels were patchy but "adequate" films which I respect because Lucas was clearly trying to communicate ideas, some of which are perceptible and provide space for discussion. The sequels were Extruded Star Wars Product. All nine of them have excellent visual design and cool action scenes. I think the prequel films get a glow-up from the TV shows/cartoons using those characters, which I gather are of generally higher quality, although film vs. tv is to some extent apples to oranges.
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Dec 18, 2022 05:26
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The curse of the prequels is that they infantilised their audience. Cutesy side characters, goofy names - Lucas revealed he'd been making films for small children all along. Star Wars nerds really, really don't like being told they're not the target audience - and worse, Lucas rubbed it in their faces that they never had been! The other quirk of course is that the Republic's "problems" have shifted with audience expectations. In the films nobody cares about slavery and it doesn't even come up. Secondary material may have tacked to the changing winds of audience tastes and raised that critique, but it sure as heck wasn't onscreen at any point.
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Dec 18, 2022 15:00
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