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I would like to be able to build fewer things more quickly rather than for the list of things I'm building end up on multiple screens. I've also seen people say there should be diminishing returns on construction, so the 100th construction yard doesn't give you as much as the first one. I've heard people recommend Anbeeld's AI mod - apparently not only does it make the AI build more sensibly, but it also gives the player an "auto-build" option they can turn on which will allocate excess construction the same way it would for the AI - I should probably get around to trying it sometime.
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Dec 16, 2022 17:37
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the ai is roughly a billion times more competitive with anbeeld's on. the trade-off is that you lose some performance, presumably from whatever extra checks it's doing
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Dec 16, 2022 20:01
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Anbeeld's mod apparently uses custom scripts to do its thing, it's not changing the actual AI programming, and doing it through scripts like that is costly for performance.
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Dec 16, 2022 20:04
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Fuligin posted:the ai is roughly a billion times more competitive with anbeeld's on. the trade-off is that you lose some performance, presumably from whatever extra checks it's doing
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Dec 17, 2022 00:59
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Minor request: Give the Paper industries a production method for hemp paper usage, where it instead uses Fabric instead of Wood in exchange for it being a less efficient method of production.
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Dec 17, 2022 13:44
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Triple A posted:Minor request: Give the Paper industries a production method for hemp paper usage, where it instead uses Fabric instead of Wood in exchange for it being a less efficient method of production. I don't know how possible it is at the moment, but it would be nice if some industries could use multiple goods like this. It'd probably be hell on the calculations though, so I can understand why it's not necessarily a thing.
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Dec 17, 2022 15:52
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Anyone getting into modding? How open is it to editing/creating new pops? I'd like to enable laborer and lower-class pops to utilize the investment pool like capitalists and aristocrats, but digging cursorily through the files as stands I don't see any way to do that.
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Dec 17, 2022 18:44
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The U.S. declared war on me (Japan) and they don't have any western states or ports. I love it!
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Dec 17, 2022 19:51
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Dirk the Average posted:I don't know how possible it is at the moment, but it would be nice if some industries could use multiple goods like this. It'd probably be hell on the calculations though, so I can understand why it's not necessarily a thing. I think it is possible as a lot of the different production methods add a lot of extra goods of various types and reduce others. So you’d add fabric and remove wood.
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Dec 17, 2022 19:52
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What does “auto-expand” actually do? I’ve been scared to push that button.
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Dec 17, 2022 21:39
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Triple A posted:Minor request: Give the Paper industries a production method for hemp paper usage, where it instead uses Fabric instead of Wood in exchange for it being a less efficient method of production. on that subject, i remember reading that there was a hard limit on the number of goods you could have, where just going above that precise number would make the game's performance tank to an insane level, and it's why a lot of stuff gets abstracted into one category. could be wrong though...
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Dec 17, 2022 21:46
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ulmont posted:What does “auto-expand” actually do? I’ve been scared to push that button. when your factory is flush with cash and workers, automatically add a new construction to the queue, when said queue is under a certain limit (which I think the limit is your number of production point?? )
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Dec 17, 2022 21:47
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Been playing around a bit, game seems pretty jank though--I've tried to form Canada several times but failed every time because the USA aggressively colonizes everything and ends up stealing a tiny bit of Alberta and Saskatchewan, and there's just no way to stop them because they colonize something like five to ten times faster than any of the potential Canada starts. So you just can't beat them in a colonization race. It doesn't help that I've only seen the civil war fire once in about twenty attempts or so, and it's getting a little aggravating, am I doing something wrong or is it just early Paradox game jank talking?
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Dec 18, 2022 00:41
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DrSunshine posted:Anyone getting into modding? How open is it to editing/creating new pops? I'd like to enable laborer and lower-class pops to utilize the investment pool like capitalists and aristocrats, but digging cursorily through the files as stands I don't see any way to do that. Investment pool contributions aren't an element of pop type, they're an element of laws (the economic ones, specifically). Or, potentially, anything that can apply a country modifier, as that's what the laws do. Extending it to other types is going to require that the game has a concept of state_<poptype>_investment_pool_contribution_add modifiers for the types in question, which it... might? In earlier titles all modifiers were handcoded, but the newer ones have been better at generating them dynamically. Try adding a state_laborers_investment_pool_contribution_add = 0.1 line to one of the economy laws and seeing what that does.
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Dec 18, 2022 01:53
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DrSunshine posted:Anyone getting into modding? How open is it to editing/creating new pops? I'd like to enable laborer and lower-class pops to utilize the investment pool like capitalists and aristocrats, but digging cursorily through the files as stands I don't see any way to do that. There's a Better Socialism mod that does that: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2883805305&searchtext=better+socialism The Great Rework does that too, along with having some decentralization laws that allow for other props to give you a bit of Investment Pool as well. It probably also murders your CPU, I didn't get to 1900 yet with my games. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2880441881&searchtext=great+rework Both of these mods also fixes Command Economy, by actually giving the profits of industry to the State rather than giving it all to your bureaucrats.
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Dec 18, 2022 02:04
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Extending it to other types is going to require that the game has a concept of state_<poptype>_investment_pool_contribution_add modifiers for the types in question, which it... might? In earlier titles all modifiers were handcoded, but the newer ones have been better at generating them dynamically. Ah this is what I was looking for. Looking at the "Better Socialism" mod -- it does! It looks like you can access modifiers that don't seem to be named anywhere in the base game files by following that scheme.
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Dec 18, 2022 02:25
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Might be sorta silly fun to create a "Land of Cockayne" mod where all the rules work backwards and subsistence farmers give the most investment pool bonuses and meat grows on trees and so on. I mean realistically I'd have no clue how you'd even begin balancing that in any way, but in general some kind of massive "What if the economy just doesn't work the same way" mod could be interesting if only to see what happens. A world in which traditionalism and landowners give massive military bonuses because the landed elite are mages, and industrializing only allows you to win wars against traditionalists by massive attritional warfare against the elite few. A setup in which small business owners are the beating heart of the economy. A 'dryworld" mod where the oceans have largely dried up and ports and oceanic trade routes don't really exist but a lot of new land does. I don't think there's really been enough time to work out how to design such mods yet and even when made they'd be a giant pain for a modding team to balance, but I'd be real excited to see what kind of wacky societal setups grow out of total conversion mods.
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Dec 18, 2022 02:36
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Merfolk total conversion where you rule the seas and trade across the land.
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Dec 18, 2022 03:04
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"Backyard Furnaces" production method for Subsistence farms, unlocked for Council Republics: Subsistence Farms can produce Steel and Tools.
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Dec 18, 2022 04:55
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DrSunshine posted:"Backyard Furnaces" production method for Subsistence farms, unlocked for Council Republics: Subsistence Farms can produce Steel and Tools. The tooltip says they are producing them but they actually don't
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Dec 18, 2022 06:54
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if anything they consume small amounts of steel and turn it in to iron
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Dec 18, 2022 06:57
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Construction industries also employ pops and presumably pay them pretty good wages because they typically need to pull people from somewhere when they start. It also uses steel, tools, coal and lumber which raises the prices of those, which in turn makes the pops there richer too. I've found that my SOL tends to go up when I'm building, which is why the investment pool is such a big deal - it enables the perpetual construction gravy train to keep going further.
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Dec 18, 2022 08:17
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For a China run, should you just spend 30 years expanding your taxing ability rather than actually building your industry. I see that you are leaving something like 800k in weekly taxes on the table for lack of the government admin buildings
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Dec 18, 2022 14:36
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Nitrousoxide posted:For a China run, should you just spend 30 years expanding your taxing ability rather than actually building your industry. I see that you are leaving something like 800k in weekly taxes on the table for lack of the government admin buildings In my experience that will ruin you as the wages for government will start catching up the income from taxation. Add government administration as needed for Institutions. As those cost several thousand bureucracy it will still amount to a sizeable amount of paper industry and government wages. It will eat away your inefficient taxation sooner or later.
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Dec 18, 2022 14:49
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Nitrousoxide posted:For a China run, should you just spend 30 years expanding your taxing ability rather than actually building your industry. I see that you are leaving something like 800k in weekly taxes on the table for lack of the government admin buildings Sort of. You have to balance: 1. The need for tax capacity 2. The need for paper for your bureaucrats 3. The need for wood (and sulfur) for your paper 4. The need for railroads to increase your infrastructure for more bureaucrats 5. The need for engines for your railroads 6. The need for steel for your engines 7. The need for coal and iron for your steel 8. The need for tools for your coal and iron (and sulfur) 9. (At some point) The need to spend Agrarianism investment pool funds on farms Your goals are +25 tax capacity for getting out of traditionalism, and then the +25 bureaucracy technologies (central archives etc). I’m around 1880 I’m my current run, 650k gdp, net 52k bureaucracy, and still losing 350k in taxes.
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Dec 18, 2022 15:34
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ulmont posted:Sort of. You have to balance: Yeah this seems like a good plan. I guess you can't solely focus on expanding the bureacracy to meet the needs of the expanding bureacracy, but you're largely dedicating your construction to it and feeding the needs it needs to run. You seem right that you'd probably exceed your infrastructure capacity in the interior states pretty quickly since you can't use ports there to beef things up. That means you need railroads (and their needs). Getting agrarianism seems like a good choice too since you can basically get some "free" investment pool to spend on tea/silk/opium farms. Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Dec 18, 2022 |
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Dec 18, 2022 16:14
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Nitrousoxide posted:Getting agrarianism seems like a good choice too since you can basically get some "free" investment pool to spend on tea/silk/opium farms. The main idea is to get the hell out of traditionalism and it’s 25% tax capacity penalty. I found Agrarianism easier to pass than Interventionism but eventually switched out.
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Dec 18, 2022 16:20
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Using the Corn Laws to get a Market Liberal as the leader of the Landowners is a pretty good shout - while the Landowners will be mad at Serfdom being abolished, they’ll be placated by you going to LF or interventionism which you want to do anyway.
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Dec 18, 2022 16:45
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Nitrousoxide posted:Yeah this seems like a good plan. I guess you can't solely focus on expanding the bureacracy to meet the needs of the expanding bureacracy, but you're largely dedicating your construction to it and feeding the needs it needs to run. You seem right that you'd probably exceed your infrastructure capacity in the interior states pretty quickly since you can't use ports there to beef things up. That means you need railroads (and their needs). Keep in mind that each one of your provinces has an entire country's worth of people living and gdp in it. You're better off starting somewhere like Beijing and building industry so you actually have something worth taxing, then building tax capacity behind that. Taxing peasants doesn't return nearly as much on your investment and won't actually expand your gdp, but what it will do is drive down SoL and create useless bureaucrats who are a drain on your coffers while contributing nothing but some beneficial IG power. Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 18, 2022 |
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Dec 18, 2022 17:11
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Ithle01 posted:Keep in mind that each one of your provinces has an entire country's worth of people living and gdp in it. You're better off starting somewhere like Beijing and building industry so you actually have something worth taxing, then building tax capacity behind that. Taxing peasants doesn't return nearly as much on your investment and won't actually expand your gdp, but what it will do is drive down SoL and create useless bureaucrats who are a drain on your coffers while contributing nothing but some beneficial IG power. You can do it either way I’m sure. In the process of providing sustainable amounts of goods to lead to bureaucrats, though, I assure you you are going to make something worth taxing. And yes once you get railroads just doing it all in Beijing becomes a great option.
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Dec 18, 2022 17:16
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Ithle01 posted:Keep in mind that each one of your provinces has an entire country's worth of people living and gdp in it. You're better off starting somewhere like Beijing and building industry so you actually have something worth taxing, then building tax capacity behind that. Taxing peasants doesn't return nearly as much on your investment and won't actually expand your gdp, but what it will do is drive down SoL and create useless bureaucrats who are a drain on your coffers while contributing nothing but some beneficial IG power. honestly a whole bunch of China-oriented gameplay mechanics are definitely warranted in an economic strategy game. Adam Smith back then was already "look if there is one country that is absolutely ridiculous in terms of political economy that country is China", especially with his observation that their internal market offers much more potential of development than relying on foreign trade
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Dec 18, 2022 17:22
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It wouldn't surprise me if China, US and British Empire DLCs were some of the earliest ones they release. They seem the most popular countries with the most unique things to simulate (China's massive population, the US civil war and the UK having a massive overseas empire day 1)
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Dec 18, 2022 17:29
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ulmont posted:You can do it either way I’m sure. In the process of providing sustainable amounts of goods to lead to bureaucrats, though, I assure you you are going to make something worth taxing. And yes once you get railroads just doing it all in Beijing becomes a great option. I find it's better to get your construction snowball started as soon as possible and China is a country that just starts with such a tax mess you're almost better ignoring it and focusing on not getting knocked out by GB and having a functioning economy. Once you've got the construction and infrastructure trains rolling everything else can be added as needed.
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Dec 18, 2022 17:30
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Yeah expanding tax capacity isn't really worth it until you get something better than land tax. Early game taxes have other fun dynamics like losing income as you industrialized because you reduce the number of peasants, and thus the amount of people taxed under land tax. It really is a terrible law.
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Dec 18, 2022 19:41
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Agean90 posted:Yeah expanding tax capacity isn't really worth it until you get something better than land tax. I found that land tax actually was better than per capita for a while as China, but after this run I will try again and mostly ignore bureaucracy and see how it works out. The bureaucracy and supporters approach definitely works though.
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Dec 18, 2022 19:47
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What even is land tax, like in real-world terms? Peasants don't own the land, and it's not per-capita, so how do you even determine how much they're supposed to pay?
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Dec 18, 2022 19:49
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think its a tax on produce.
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Dec 18, 2022 20:21
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megane posted:What even is land tax, like in real-world terms? Peasants don't own the land, and it's not per-capita, so how do you even determine how much they're supposed to pay? Basically, “The government assesses that this plot of land of A size at B location is fertile enough to produce C bushels of wheat/rice per year and thus needs to pay D bushels in tax.” The exact setup varies from country to country but in some respects it’s almost immaterial who’s on the land as long as the tax comes from somewhere. Peasants DO frequently own land in many systems, with many agricultural societies being a combination of small freeholders, some rich enough to act as minor landlords, wage laborers, tenants, collective village ownership and large landlords. That being said the exact form of taxation in China for instance can frequently be communal - IE the entire village is collectively responsible for getting the tax from their region together, with the government not really caring how they distribute the tax burden within the village as long as the whole comes in. It’s favored by agricultural societies because when agricultural produce is the source of wealth, those harvesting it can’t easily run from their land and can thus be easily taxed. Unlike capita taxes or income taxes, you don’t need a massive bureaucratic structure to keep track of people, where they are, how much they owe, etc. - you just need a map with numbers on it that say “This village owes this, that village owes that,” and then you go to the spots on the map to shake down whoever you find there until the numbers add up. The downside is that it’s inefficient as a tax system, since regions can become more or less productive between assessments for whatever reason, the original assessments might be inaccurate or the bands used to determine fertility clumsy and inexact, it doesn’t account for harvest variations (though tax relief during famines was common), and of course as a system it’s woefully inadequate for tracking the taxable wealth of capitalists who don’t rely on fixed land for their income. Tomn fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Dec 18, 2022 |
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Dec 18, 2022 20:30
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Speaking of Qing, I am so sick of them dropping in on every play I make in East Asia for no effect. Sending 430 regiments to some poo poo heap island and suffering no consequences for doing so or for being able to raid sea lanes with man o' war tech warships even when I have ten times that many ironclads patrolling sea lanes. I am really starting to hate how badly hosed up naval warfare is in this game, the only good part is that the AI doesn't do it very often. It's gotten to the point that rather than humiliate Qing, the 5 year timer isn't long enough, I'm adding liberation war goals on them instead so I can carve them apart 20-30 million peasants at a time. The Qing successor states are far more willing to allow me some peace and quiet while I annex Indonesia and they occasionally join my markets.
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Dec 18, 2022 21:38
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I'm going to have to play this later, I tried a Russia run and the game fuckin chugged after 1865, I had to put autobuild on just to keep up. I might try a smaller country next time, the Rework actually has other countries build dye farms/oil wells, and your wheat farms have a PM for a bit of opium (as it's always expensive even if you're the #1 producer...). Still a fun as hell game, until it goes completely off the rails. Having 2,500 building capacity and still having money go into the Investment Pool is pretty funny and completely bananas!
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Dec 19, 2022 01:24
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