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At least we got a High Quality Rip out of it
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Dec 19, 2022 04:18
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Why are you...posting dungeon parses like they mean anything? Both WRT this thread and also in general. They're generally the easiest party content in the game it's not a great indicator of skill. But also shut up, this isn't the thread for it.
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Dec 19, 2022 04:20
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Bigger lol at the 9300 comms
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Dec 19, 2022 05:35
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Coming in late with the post-Doma thoughts, but I feel one of the biggest problems with Stormblood's storyline is Kugane. The lure of Fantasy Edo was too strong, and Stormblood ended up putting massive amounts of resources into a place that doesn't actually matter at all to the MSQ. Lots of effort was put into making Kugane, and they definitely showcased it hard, aaaaaand then nothing in Kugane ends up actually mattering as far as the MSQ goes. You arrive and then almost immediately just loving bail. They really wanted to show off Kugane, and connecting it to the actual storyline was a very distant second thought. And that hits the whole Doma side of the story, I think; the problem that Kugane sorta represents shines hard here, and that problem was that the storyline just sorta meanders around because they really want to show you these big beautiful Othardian zones they made. Stormblood at times feels like a travelogue that also has a revolution going on in the background. The NPC writing is messy - not good or complicatedly messy, but the sort of messy where decisions weren't made to actually iron out some characters - because the NPCs aren't really what the expansion wants you to focus on, it wants you to focus on how beautiful the Ruby Sea is, and check it out, we've developed swimming! You don't...you don't ever actually really need to use swimming, uh, ever, once you leave the Ruby Sea, other then the maybe once or twice it's shoehorned into the plot to justify its existence, but isn't it beautiful? Think about how many quests were spent in the MSQ in the Ruby Sea that fundamentally went nowhere, other then "ok but look at the Ruby Sea!" and how much actual character development could've happened there. I adore the Steppes but they have largely the same problem; they only succeed more because the scenario writer for that zone actually had ideas connected to the people of the Steppes they wanted to share, but the Steppes are still largely just about being in the Steppes. By the time you arrive in Doma, you still know almost jack poo poo about it. You get a few blips and blurbs about the failed rebellion, but frankly the Namazu get more characterization then Doma itself does in its own zone. Hien suffers a decent amount from being just kinda vaguely protagonist shaped, and I feel this is one of the big reasons for it - Stormblood just doesn't really care about him that much as a character. They just need someone vaguely protagonist shaped to shove the plot along to the next beautiful Othardian zone. Yotsuyu suffers even more - a character who's supposed to be defined by the dark side of a country you're here to try and rescue would be a great character, if they only cared enough about that country to actually give it a dark side. Instead you're given a few very vague notes that maybe things actually sucked in Doma, but those story notes aren't a big beautiful Othard zone to look at, so nothing is ever gone into detail. This lavish attention to Othard's landscape doesn't just hurt the Othard storyline, of course; Othard ends up taking way more then "half" of Stormblood despite it initially being the storyline of Ala Mhigo's rebellion and resurrection, and the team's utter disinterest in Ala Mhigo's landscape plays a very big role in that, I feel. But we'll be getting more into that soon enough. EDIT: Also hinting at larger societal problems and then retreating behind "BUT VILLAIN IS REAL BAD, MAYBE THAT'S THE REAL PROBLEM" is something FFXIV does far more then just here, and it sucks and is grotesquely cowardly every time, but this also sure is one of those times they're doing it.
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Dec 19, 2022 05:58
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Yeah I think the side stuff that does touch on Kugane is kinda neat and interesting but boy HOWDY do the rest of the areas and Kugane itself suffer from it being emphasized so much when it barely matters to anything in the actual story. I know having a neutral base of operations makes sense with the story but maybe it should matter beyond being kinda pretty and being a setting for job storylines, I don’t know.
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Dec 19, 2022 06:09
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Job/gathering/crafting storylines are sometimes especially fraught because the vast majority try and make up some excuse to go to Kugane. Sometimes this is perfectly logical like with Samurai. Sometimes it’s. Uh. Not. Despite that I would say overall StB has the best job quests in the game but still.
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Dec 19, 2022 06:38
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Oh absolutely, Kugane is fine when it's a pretty place to shop or have a house in but it's kind of a disaster when it comes to story, both main story and job quests. And with how many job/class quests and side quests are in Kugane it is very clear that they care a lot about Kugane which makes it's complete uselessness to the MSQ all the more baffling.
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Dec 19, 2022 07:38
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The main story function is to give an unoccupied port hub in that region of the world so that Alphinaud can be kept busy with non-combat tasks for a while and Tataru can wear a kimono. Edit: I can't stress this enough. 
Hogama fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Dec 19, 2022 |
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Dec 19, 2022 07:51
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I really wish they would give players full-length kimonos like that. 
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Dec 19, 2022 07:55
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I know little about the stuff that happens after Doma, so I am curious about what happens next.
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Dec 19, 2022 08:05
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So I've been trying for days to make the next chapter work as one chapter, but I just have too much stuff to say about my designated topics, so I'm just going to have to make it two chapters. The good news is that means the next chapter comes out tomorrow! (Or rather today since its after midnight) The bad news is that means one more chapter before we get back to Eorzea, which is a chapter I'm really looking forward to. The OTHER good news is that One Last Extra Othard Chapter should come out quickly and I'm about to go on Christmas Vacation, so I'm about to have a lot of writing time, and I intend to use it. I am PUMPED to get to some stuff that's coming up. Sanguinia fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Dec 19, 2022 |
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Dec 19, 2022 08:21
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ProfessorCirno posted:Kugane, Doma, Othard You know I always vaguely felt these sorts of ideas while playing through Stormblood and reflecting on it afterwards but couldn't quite put it into words this well. Well written. I can definitely see why people say Stormblood is beneath Heavensward now even if imo the gameplay improved, but HW definitely maintains a much more consistent narrative and shows a lot more of Ishgard than StB does of Doma or Ala Mhigo.
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Dec 19, 2022 13:55
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hopeandjoy posted:Job/gathering/crafting storylines are sometimes especially fraught because the vast majority try and make up some excuse to go to Kugane. Sometimes this is perfectly logical like with Samurai. Sometimes it’s. Uh. Not. Hellioning posted:And with how many job/class quests and side quests are in Kugane it is very clear that they care a lot about Kugane which makes it's complete uselessness to the MSQ all the more baffling. I power leveled all my crafter classes at pretty much the same time and knocked out all the StB crafter quests together, and boy howdy did it get grating to see how many of them truly are the same questline of "We're off to learn the ANCIENT JAPANESE ART of <insert crafting here>." Though I did laugh at the Carpenter questline of all things giving my favorite re-occuring story beat, which is the entire game pointing at Gridania and going "This mf think ketchup spicy!" Doomykins posted:You know I always vaguely felt these sorts of ideas while playing through Stormblood and reflecting on it afterwards but couldn't quite put it into words this well. Well written. I can definitely see why people say Stormblood is beneath Heavensward now even if imo the gameplay improved, but HW definitely maintains a much more consistent narrative and shows a lot more of Ishgard than StB does of Doma or Ala Mhigo. HW benefits *hard* from having a singular plotline that the writers very much wanted to write and build up to in the Dragonsong War. It's that classic high fantasy everyone in this kinda game and genre just sorta loves, and they play it's notes hard and well. Ishgard was always meant to be one of the initial starting city-states and a lot of attention went into it even before it ever showed up in-game; hell, you had more Coerthas zones in 1.0 then you did in 2.x, albeit entirely empty zones that was mostly the same terrain literally copied and pasted en masse. I've seen lots of players describe Ishgard as their home by the end of HW and it's really easy to see why; the city state itself is practically one of the main characters throughout the expansion. StB would have problems even without the comparison, but coming in weak right where the last expansion was strongest did it immense negative favors. Sanguinia posted:So I've been trying for days to make the next chapter work as one chapter, but I just have too much stuff to say about my designated topics, so I'm just going to have to make it two chapters. Definitely not going to complain about getting MORE content! Honestly you talking about your designated topics is one of the best parts of this thread, so I can only encourage it. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Dec 19, 2022 |
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Dec 19, 2022 14:55
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In hindsight, do ANY of the Crafting questlines take place in Gyr Abania?
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Dec 19, 2022 15:28
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:In hindsight, do ANY of the Crafting questlines take place in Gyr Abania? The Goldsmithing one, I believe?
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Dec 19, 2022 15:30
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The man called M posted:The Goldsmithing one, I believe? Yup, almost entirely in Rhalgr's Reach
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Dec 19, 2022 15:45
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ProfessorCirno posted:I've seen lots of players describe Ishgard as their home by the end of HW and it's really easy to see why; the city state itself is practically one of the main characters throughout the expansion. This. Just, this so hard. I never felt all that connected to the three City States you start off the game with, as the nature of ARR always meant that you were bouncing from place to place with no real chance to put down roots, but being so involved in Ishgard for the entirety of the expansion really helped give me a connection to the place that I just didn't have from Ul'dah, Gridania, or Limsa. It really does feel like that when all is said and done and the adventures of my WoL have concluded, Ishgard is the place she'll retire to, dressed in furs with a mug of hot chocolate in front of a fireplace.
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Dec 19, 2022 16:02
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Actually, thinking back on at least the quests I’ve personally done, the combat classes are less dire about it than crafting and gathering. There’s a couple that feel “obligatory Japan visit” but there are several that take place entirely within Gyr Albania and even some that only use Heavensward and/or ARR areas. This is probably a symptom of the fact it doesn’t seem like the crafting and gathering quests were the priority. Re: which crafting classes don’t do the “we must learn the JAPANESE ART of <insert craft here>”: in addition to Goldsmith taking place in Rhalgr’s Reach, I’m pretty sure Leatherworker stays within Gridania.
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Dec 19, 2022 16:04
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:In hindsight, do ANY of the Crafting questlines take place in Gyr Abania? Culinarian spans both sides culturally but mostly stays on the Eorzean side IIRC.
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Dec 19, 2022 16:19
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IIRC Alchemist also stays in Ul’dah since it’s a coda to Ul’dah’s 1.0 plot.
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Dec 19, 2022 16:21
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ProfessorCirno posted:I power leveled all my crafter classes at pretty much the same time and knocked out all the StB crafter quests together, and boy howdy did it get grating to see how many of them truly are the same questline of "We're off to learn the ANCIENT JAPANESE ART of <insert crafting here>." So... one of them?
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Dec 19, 2022 16:21
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W.T. Fits posted:So... one of them? If you make the mistake of doing Carpenter, Blacksmith, and Armorer all right next to each other like I did you can absolutely get that impression, because all three of those 100% do that. Culinarian is borderline as well. Weaver takes place in Kugane but it’s more about bringing the west into Kugane than bringing the East to Eorzea like the first three mentioned. All told, that’s 5/8 of the crafters.
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Dec 19, 2022 16:29
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And the gathering class quests all send you to both regions at some point, of course, though not all of them do much with those zones narratively.
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Dec 19, 2022 16:29
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Rorahusky posted:This. Just, this so hard. I never felt all that connected to the three City States you start off the game with, as the nature of ARR always meant that you were bouncing from place to place with no real chance to put down roots, but being so involved in Ishgard for the entirety of the expansion really helped give me a connection to the place that I just didn't have from Ul'dah, Gridania, or Limsa. It really does feel like that when all is said and done and the adventures of my WoL have concluded, Ishgard is the place she'll retire to, dressed in furs with a mug of hot chocolate in front of a fireplace. I can say that I at least had that level of connection with Ul'dah as well. The wealth inequality, the corporate corruption of government, the nature of the refugee crisis and the attendant exploitation, and the early revelation that Ul'dah was the instigator in its Beast Tribe Crisis were all conflicts and issues that spoke to me on a deep level, and the fact that many of the memorable and likable NPCs you align with early on are explicitly in the camp of fixing them made it easy to invest. Nanamo and Raubahn's story was instantly compelling, and almost every character you meet in Ul'dah sticks in your memory from both a design and personality perspective. Granted, to get that connection I had to pay close attention to what the sidequests were telling me about Ul'dah's story, just the MSQ probably wouldn't have managed it on its own despite how much I liked Ul'dah's starting 1-15 story. Although Ul'dah's part of the City State Unlocking quest DID give me an excuse to dress up fancy and go unlock Dyes to facilitate that, so that would have been a big point in its favor. It was very strange to me that some people were telling me when I started Stormblood that a lot of players just weren't that invested in the Ala Mhigo story unless they'd leveled Monk, and in retrospect the level to which I cared about Ala Mhigo was absolutely predicated on how much I cared about Ul'dah and the inexorable link between their problems.
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Dec 19, 2022 16:40
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W.T. Fits posted:I really wish they would give players full-length kimonos like that. Sadly the leg area of the kimono clips and/or stretches badly when the character model does anything more active than a brisk walk. So I can see the dev teams deciding its not something that meets their (sometimes overly) strict standards for putting in players hands.  Shame, cause they do look nice for just posing. 
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Dec 19, 2022 17:16
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It wasn't just me that had the feel that the Big Three city writing had a clear demarcation of quality going Ul'dah > Limsa > Gridania, right? Buscarron can't save your entire spate of sidequests by himself, elves hopeandjoy posted:IIRC Alchemist also stays in Ul’dah since it’s a coda to Ul’dah’s 1.0 plot.
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Dec 19, 2022 17:25
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ProfessorCirno posted:I've seen lots of players describe Ishgard as their home by the end of HW and it's really easy to see why; the city state itself is practically one of the main characters throughout the expansion.
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Dec 19, 2022 18:23
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The HW jobs that unlock and level up in Ishgard give the city experience. I imagine a lot of players at the time would have been trying them out alongside the MSQ or soon after while it was still fresh. I suppose this was also the intent with Samurai.
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Dec 19, 2022 18:40
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Sanguinia posted:It was very strange to me that some people were telling me when I started Stormblood that a lot of players just weren't that invested in the Ala Mhigo story unless they'd leveled Monk, and in retrospect the level to which I cared about Ala Mhigo was absolutely predicated on how much I cared about Ul'dah and the inexorable link between their problems. That makes a lot of sense. I never really touched Monk, but everything about Ul'dah's story hooked me immediately, to the point that I declared it was my WoL's city-state of origin... and so much of Ul'dah's story is Ala Mhigo's story, if you're paying attention. I was absolutely overjoyed for Stormblood because we'd be finally freeing the place! I cared a lot, I did. Maybe attaching one's WoL explicitly to a place gives one the potential to get more invested?
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Dec 19, 2022 18:59
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Heavensward does a lot to show a lot of people being held down by one or two bad actors. Stormblood shows small villages being held down by one of the largest collectives of power in the world, and it doesn't feel like it. Realistically, it should be harder for the Scions and especially the main character to win here simply because they can't be everywhere all at once, whereas the villains of Heavensward could fill a room only because Hogg is very large, and their armor is entrenched social order. It's difficult to do harm to them without harming those you're presumably trying to save. That said, HW isn't perfect. It did deliver Ishgard at last to a bunch of people who saw it as the classic Mount Hyjal style no man's land of its day. But the other zones aren't really well connected to it, particularly since expansion zones aren't connected to ARR's Coerthas. Ishgard is a tube connecting Eorzea as you know it with places like The Sea of Clouds, which is ... Where? And let's not get started about how frozen wastes link directly to a forest with babbling streams. I still wanted an Ishgard Grand Company to join, though.
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Dec 20, 2022 00:51
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The Sea of Clouds is over the mountains to the east of Ishgard, that's why you need an airship or a flying mount to get there.
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Dec 20, 2022 01:37
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So hey, question: Is https://wowrefugeechronicle.com/ just not a thing anymore? Or am I looking at a busted link somehow?
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Dec 20, 2022 01:43
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Also, Coerthas being a permanent winter wonderland even though it's adjacent to otherwise temperate forests is supposed to be weird. The Calamity completely warped the region's aetheric flow, messing with the climate badly. Beforehand (and in 1.0) it was mostly a fairly chilly mountain climate, being colder than the Shroud simply due to higher elevation.
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Dec 20, 2022 02:20
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Ziddar posted:Also, Coerthas being a permanent winter wonderland even though it's adjacent to otherwise temperate forests is supposed to be weird. The Calamity completely warped the region's aetheric flow, messing with the climate badly. Beforehand (and in 1.0) it was mostly a fairly chilly mountain climate, being colder than the Shroud simply due to higher elevation. I know that, but it's a rather hard shift in biomes given that Coerthas Western seems even more frigid than Coerthas Central. The space around the Shroud just before you reach Thanalan isn't completely barren, but it's reasonably toning down the levels of lush forest when you reach the border. Coerthas Western feels like the night's watch, and then you get across it past where bodies died in the ice and oh hey it's a community of chocobo wranglers.
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Dec 20, 2022 02:32
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dyslexicfaser posted:So hey, question: Oh, I let that URL expire because I just didn't have the time to keep working on the ARR reuploads and I wanted to save some cash. I'll probably do something about that at some point.
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Dec 20, 2022 02:33
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Craptacular! posted:I know that, but it's a rather hard shift in biomes given that Coerthas Western seems even more frigid than Coerthas Central. The space around the Shroud just before you reach Thanalan isn't completely barren, but it's reasonably toning down the levels of lush forest when you reach the border. Coerthas Western feels like the night's watch, and then you get across it past where bodies died in the ice and oh hey it's a community of chocobo wranglers. You’re coming down from the mountains in the forelands to an extent. Dravania wasn’t impacted in the same way Coerthas was, so you’re kindof like the California side of the rockies when you’re there. The hinterlands is full on coastal valley. The harsh climate shift is a bit sudden and one would expect parts of the north shroud to be a bit snowy, but it isn’t at all crazy to have a mountain range and one side of it have completely different weather and climate from the other. We have examples of that in both north and south America. The game could definitely do better with transitions between zones to further demonstrate this effect for sure.
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Dec 20, 2022 14:57
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or it's purely magical and coerthas got hit specifically because it's where ishgard has all its people and bahamut, noted primal made to take vengeance for dead dragons, was okay with loving up ishgard specifically with some sort of long-lasting curse
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Dec 20, 2022 15:17
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mmm, not supported by the text
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Dec 20, 2022 15:58
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I mean, the first part is 100% true. The Coerthas zones are stuck in winter hell year round due to the Seventh Calamity caused by Bahamut. Whether it was targeted is questionable, but the result isn't. 1.0 had the pre-corrupted version, and there's screenshots (Fandom wiki link with area screenshots and descriptions) and videos of the zone.
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Dec 20, 2022 16:14
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 15:54 |
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Mr. Nice! posted:You’re coming down from the mountains in the forelands to an extent. Dravania wasn’t impacted in the same way Coerthas was, so you’re kindof like the California side of the rockies when you’re there. The hinterlands is full on coastal valley. Mister Olympus posted:or it's purely magical Worth remembering that this planet works entirely on Magiphysics, so if you asked someone how the rain shadow effect works they would probably tell you that it's because the water-aspected aether current on one side of a mountain gets blocked by a concentration of Earth aether.
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Dec 20, 2022 16:20
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