|
Oh, it's a Touhou music meme, of course.
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 08:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 15:50 |
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:Crisis Core is great, no idea about the remake but I wouldn't pay $50 for it Thanks for the price to product replies. I'll wait until it's cheap or on Sony pass!
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 08:35
|
|
|
FrostyPox posted:That might be part of the reason I like VIII and XIII so much. I feel like VII is in there, too, but I don't have quite the eye for design trends. I like VIII largely because it's the first JRPG I ever played (I actually played the PC version, which came with the weird chocobo minigame thing - I remember the minigame giving me a lot of items). Does the Steam version of VIII come with the chocobo minigame? I've never actually replayed VIII - I should probably do that at some point. Speaking of VIII, I recently learned of the "Rinoa is Ultimecia" theory and I like it a lot and was very sad to hear that apparently it was denied by the writers, since it would go a long way towards making Ultimecia less of a weird out-of-nowhere boss (and certain stuff related to Ultimecia doesn't make much sense otherwise, like the Griever GF).
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 09:22
|
|
|
Griever makes more sense in the original Japanese, where it's clear that she's pulling it from Squall's idea of what the strongest thing could be rather than anything tied to her. FFXIV's take on it for the Eden raids was both very clever and true to the original idea, since it's a mashup of the things Ryne associated with strength; her two father figures.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 09:31
|
|
|
What's really crazy is that someone at SE must dig the theory, because they had Ultimecia do the Rinoa Finger Pose in the crossover event in Mobius Final Fantasy
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 10:07
|
|
|
DanielCross posted:What's really crazy is that someone at SE must dig the theory, because they had Ultimecia do the Rinoa Finger Pose in the crossover event in Mobius Final Fantasy Kitase likes the theory from what I remember in an interview he did. He says it's false, same with Squall Is Dead, but he likes the interpretations and creativity of the theories and if he ever did a remake of FFVIII, he might incorporate some nods to those theories.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 10:29
|
|
|
bobjr posted:https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1604453351512383491?s=46&t=RLnBdFUJxO4ePC4Zg9baeA Sorry to drag this back, but: in thinking more about it, the one that interests me the most here is Haurchefaunt. If we're completely honest, we have to acknowledge that Emet and G'raha (and Wakka) are riding a recency bias here. Yes, so is FF7's cast to a degree, but we know they tend to take top spots even when they aren't--I think it's pretty clear that when they're no longer current, Emet is going to drop from that top spot, and G'raha's probably going to drop from the top rankings altogether unless he really stunts in the next expansion. But Haurchefaunt died seven years ago, and he's STILL in the top rankings. That's some goddamn longetivity, especially for a character that relatively minor! 9 also showing some impressive strength in age, too. There haven't been recent reasons to care about FF9 for well over a decade at this point, and somehow it's still taking two spots in the top ten.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 10:55
|
|
|
FF14 is an interesting case because people will be playing it continuously for years to come, and even if the characters aren't active in current expansions people will still be continuously reminded of their existence by running old trials, etc. I think it'll be harder for Emet to fade from memory than you think.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 11:00
|
|
|
Clarste posted:FF14 is an interesting case because people will be playing it continuously for years to come, and even if the characters aren't active in current expansions people will still be continuously reminded of their existence by running old trials, etc. I think it'll be harder for Emet to fade from memory than you think. I mean everyone did agree to remember him
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 11:02
|
|
|
*Nods* *Punches palm*
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 11:03
|
|
|
Mr. Fortitude posted:Kitase likes the theory from what I remember in an interview he did. He says it's false, same with Squall Is Dead, but he likes the interpretations and creativity of the theories and if he ever did a remake of FFVIII, he might incorporate some nods to those theories. Its a fun theory that ties together the ending and makes the story more "romantic" in the classic literature sense. I would 100% add it to any remake I would do of 8. I will not entertain Squall is Dead because the only thing stupider is when I had to listen to a person trying to call Frank Capra movies Libertarian
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 11:05
|
|
|
Clarste posted:*Nods* *Punches palm* *zoom in on clinched fist*
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 11:06
|
|
|
Ultimecia theory is narratively and thematically satisfying, and is partially even alluded to in the text of the work itself, even if unintentional. Squall is Dead is bullshit rear end Author is Dead fanwank wherein it’s a race by people who took their first Film Studies 101 class trying to come up with the most “out there” (that’s actually super cliched but whatever) fan theory and then backfill a justification. Basically it’s Room 237 but for weebs.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 12:06
|
|
|
I know he says it false but i cant see it any other way if it isnt rinoa, its that good a fit lol But yeah squall is def not dead, that theory sucks
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 12:26
|
|
|
I vaguely remember "Squall is Dead" being boosted by somebody who was later like "oh yeah, I didn't watch to the end of the credits."
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 13:09
|
|
|
Squall is Dead is so dumb because it’s not additive. Ultimecia is a great theory because it adds so much to the story as written, it gives her a character a motivation, it ties together a lot of its disparate theories and ideas, and even contextualizes some of the stuff like Laguna by saying it’s one end of the timeline that Ultimecia is the other end of. You learn Squall’s past and Rinoa’s future in parallel to each other over the course of the game. It just makes sense, it’s a great theory that imparts meaning and weight to otherwise nonsensical story events and if they remade 8 and didn’t include it as canon I’d be like, what are you doing? The game becomes such a a narrative mess by the end of disc 3 and expanding the Rinoa = Ultimecia stuff in a full on remake would make the game so much texturally stronger. On the other hand, Squall is Dead is, at best, weird bad excuses/justification, and even then it doesn’t really work because the story only really becomes dreamlike nonsense by the end of the disc 3. So even in the fan theory Squall’s initial dream is otherwise coherent and follows conventional narrative structure until…like…forty hours of game time later?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 13:23
|
|
|
Rinoa = Ultimecia is equally as stupid as Squall Is Dead. Might as well be "Cid is Squall after landing in the wrong part of the timeline" or some poo poo. It's a great theory that imparts weight and meaning to why Cid is helping Squall!
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 13:40
|
|
|
I like R=U because it gives Ultimecia a semblance of intrigue and depth. I never did believe it but oh well. Japanese fans must believe it too if Kitase himself actually heard about it. Kanfy posted:Also undoubtedly a bit of a protest since Square's lawyers demanded that video removed from the internet. I mentioned it back in June when it happened and it was in large part the takedown demand that went really viral (and the niconico-comment filled video of it I posted has since been taken down too, rip) Hey this version doesn't have all the weird scrolling stuff the one you posted last time did.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 14:23
|
|
|
Rinoa=Ultimecia has the issue of, you know, dooming Rinoa since it'd be a time loop. What did she do to deserve that?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 14:24
|
|
|
If I remember correctly it presupposes the gang, or at least Squall, all die to Ultimecia, who spares Rinoa due to obvious trying to preserve the time loop that ensures her existence in the first place, and Rinoa ends up becoming Ultimecia to get back at her as part of bloody cycle of revenge. So basically literally the plot of Looper. Ed: also with some “GFs wipe user’s minds” thrown in as justification that Ultimecia ends up literally forgetting everything besides who she originally started as. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Dec 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 14:35
|
|
|
GiantRockFromSpace posted:Rinoa=Ultimecia has the issue of, you know, dooming Rinoa since it'd be a time loop. What did she do to deserve that? She's a rich girl, and she's gone too far, and you know it doesn't matter any way
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 14:52
|
|
|
I think Rinoa=Ultemicia would be cool cuz it'd be something of a nod to FF1's timeloop.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 15:02
|
|
|
Imagine if they went full Chrono and let you kill Rinoa at different points in NG+ (e.g. failing in space, killing her fused with Adel) and get alternate endings where Ultimecia never exists but the NORGs take over or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 15:14
|
|
|
Electromax posted:Imagine if they went full Chrono and let you kill Rinoa at different points in NG+ (e.g. failing in space, killing her fused with Adel) and get alternate endings where Ultimecia never exists but the NORGs take over or whatever. I'm using Time Kompression to send you a warning from the future for leaking my FFVIII remake's core new gimmick. GiantRockFromSpace posted:Rinoa=Ultimecia has the issue of, you know, dooming Rinoa since it'd be a time loop. What did she do to deserve that? I'd just structure it so that Ultemecia is Rinoa from the pre-Time Kompression version of history where she didn't have Time Kompression to accidentally shift history so that Squall is alive and around in the same time period as her to fall in love with and become a completely different person. So its a straight causal loop until you kill Ultemecia and undo Time Kompression and thus free Rinoa from having to become the Ultemecia she would have been doomed to be. You know, a sensible double time loop conquered by the power of love across time, basic stuff for an FF game. Barudak fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Dec 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 15:48
|
|
|
Riona should interrupt Seifer by saying "I don't give a gently caress who you are. I'm here to kill Ultemicia.'
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 16:19
|
|
|
Or, better yet, "I am Ultimecia"
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 16:21
|
|
|
"Bullshit." *blasts Sum 41 through earbuds*
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 16:36
|
|
|
Aside from recency-bias, why do people like Emet-Selch that much?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 16:40
|
|
|
good character
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 16:47
|
|
|
Have you played FFXIV? Genuine question, not trying to be patronizing, but basically he’s the best version of a tragic, sympathetic villain that SE has ever done. At the high concept, imagine a villain with the charisma of Kefka and the relatable motivations of Sephiroth, who isn’t insane. Until shadowbringers Emet-Selch is just a weird prick who fucks with you, but in a way that’s genuinely pretty funny and makes you enjoy the times he comes by to mess with you. During shadowbringers, they basically end up actually explaining who he is and what his plans are and it explains his weird assholey initial behavior as a way to mask deep pain, but sir I am Pagliacci style. Basically he’s a bad guy and he’s wrong but he’s introduced with so much charisma and is so genuinely funny and likeable, and the stuff you learn about his backstory in Shadowbringers ends up making you feel like he’s a villain who is 100% justified in his actions. That’s an incredibly, incredibly difficult line for the game to walk, wherein you feel both that you have to put a stop to him but also that what he’s doing makes sense and isn’t evil in a traditionally defined sense.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 16:51
|
|
|
Also he has a funny little wave.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 16:59
|
|
|
I thought it was kind of funny his english VA is some TV soap actor and didn't seem to know the character was popular at all until someone contacted him for an interview like a year later
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 17:02
|
|
|
Some of them like that his a petty tired theater loving little bitch who loves to talk poo poo and argue with Thancred et al. Some love that he's the tragic hero of a long lost people's trying to rebuild what he's lost by becoming a monster unlike anything before. Some like his direct and honest relationship and dialogue with you the protag. And some just wanna gently caress the rat grandpa.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 17:05
|
|
|
NieR Occomata posted:Have you played FFXIV? Genuine question, not trying to be patronizing, but basically he’s the best version of a tragic, sympathetic villain that SE has ever done. At the high concept, imagine a villain with the charisma of Kefka and the relatable motivations of Sephiroth, who isn’t insane. Yes, but I'm still early in Endwalker. I thought he's really good compared to the other villains, particularly Ascians in the game, but hadn't thought he'd be a #1 all time FF character for so many. I could see it though. He also looks and talks like a smug motherfucker I know irl. Heran Bago fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Dec 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 17:14
|
|
|
He deliberately introduces himself as a bad guy who's here to ruin your plans, and he follows you around with you fully knowing this, because what are you going to do about it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 17:19
|
|
|
I mean, I think FF14 has like 20 books' worth of dialogue or something, which is by far the most for the series. Other games you get maybe some short video clips, or significantly less dialogue (and even less emoting). So Emet-Selch (and most characters in FF14) just gets a ton more opportunity to be a fully fleshed out character. I also think FF14 has the best writing in the series, so you get a ton of good character-driven writing in one spot it makes sense that the audience would identify a FF14 character as #1.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 17:20
|
|
|
Two tidbits from the ending of the world of balance in FFVI: -I don't know if it was added in the later translation but Gestahl telling Celes to join them so she and Kefka can father a bunch of Magitek children is way more disturbing than I remember -the line "Run run or you'll be well done!" is incredible and 100% Woolsey
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 17:57
|
|
|
DanielCross posted:What's really crazy is that someone at SE must dig the theory, because they had Ultimecia do the Rinoa Finger Pose in the crossover event in Mobius Final Fantasy Ultimecia is pretty much a personification of the destructive habits Rinoa and Squall developed before they found each other, so even without her literally being Rinoa, it makes sense that she'd share quirks with the two of them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 18:31
|
|
|
Heran Bago posted:Aside from recency-bias, why do people like Emet-Selch that much? i also would like to know this. he sucks
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 18:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 15:50 |
|
|
As far as Best Characters go, Emet-Selch is cool, but Hythlodaeus is just so much better. Also, Ultimecia isn't Rinoa. Ultimecia is cool and good. Rinoa is bad and garbage.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2022 18:46
|
|
