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Tomn posted:The downside is that it’s inefficient as a tax system, since regions can become more or less productive between assessments for whatever reason, the original assessments might be inaccurate or the bands used to determine fertility clumsy and inexact, it doesn’t account for harvest variations (though tax relief during famines was common), and of course as a system it’s woefully inadequate for tracking the taxable wealth of capitalists who don’t rely on fixed land for their income. This is a big part of 19th-century Russian Empire literature. "Dead Souls" by Gogol (who is more Ukrainian than Russian but lived in the Russian empire) is exactly about that: taxes are defined by regular revisions of how wealthy a province is. In between the revisions, you still pay taxes for stuff that dead peasants are supposed to produce. So it was a good idea to sell them. It's also obviously a system that is very susceptible to corruption.
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Dec 19, 2022 09:58
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TwoQuestions posted:I'm going to have to play this later, I tried a Russia run and the game fuckin chugged after 1865, I had to put autobuild on just to keep up. I might try a smaller country next time, the Rework actually has other countries build dye farms/oil wells, and your wheat farms have a PM for a bit of opium (as it's always expensive even if you're the #1 producer...). Yeah, autobuild comes with a big performance overhead apparently
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Dec 19, 2022 12:18
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Gort posted:Yeah, autobuild comes with a big performance overhead apparently Good catch, I forgot I'll need to shut that off, as Rework includes Improved Automation which should work. I understand Autobuild can customize precisely what you want to build, I'll try it without that enabled.
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Dec 19, 2022 15:17
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Alternatively, use no automation to relive the halcyon days of pop splitting as Qing.
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Dec 19, 2022 16:39
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Where is the source of additonal currency in the game as time goes on? Is it just minting/gold mines?
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Dec 19, 2022 23:02
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Nitrousoxide posted:Where is the source of additonal currency in the game as time goes on? Is it just minting/gold mines? I think the rate at which you can add to your gold reserves past the cap is based on the market price of gold, if that's what you mean. I don't think there's a way to see the "global money supply" or the like.
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Dec 19, 2022 23:13
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:I think the rate at which you can add to your gold reserves past the cap is based on the market price of gold, if that's what you mean. I don't think there's a way to see the "global money supply" or the like. Yeah I'm talking about the money supply, not just your total wealth. I'm wondering if you could deplete currency reserves by importing too heavily and be unable to purchase stuff if don't have corresponding exports/gold mines/minting to replenish your national supply.
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Dec 19, 2022 23:19
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I don't think there is a money supply. I remember reading a dev diary that said they removed the concept so you didn't end up with nobody being able to trade since cement factory owners in Azerbaijan had all the banknotes.
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Dec 19, 2022 23:28
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Yeah, modeling monetary supply sounds cool but it also sounds like something that could very easily be snarled up on AI hiccups very quickly. Especially if the game tries to model going off the gold standard. Hell for that matter monetary supply is something I have trouble wrapping my head around as a concept in real life. Gamifying it might make it easier to understand but if they included it I predict a LOT of YouTube tutorials trying to explain how it works and what it means for the player in terms of policy.
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Dec 19, 2022 23:46
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Monetary policy and supply would rule because they'd need to A: Model the effects that having a properly backed currency can have on both international trade and domestic spending and B: Model the fact that almost nobody actually had enough gold to fully back their currency and just kinda bluffed and hoped there wouldn't be a bank run
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Dec 19, 2022 23:51
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Nitrousoxide posted:Where is the source of additonal currency in the game as time goes on? Is it just minting/gold mines? The game doesn't try to establish a granular simulation on the movement of money and goods like Vicky 2 did, so currency is generated and lost in a ton of different ways. For instance, you could have one producer and one consumer of a good. The producer makes 100 of that good and sells them for 20 pounds each, earning 2000 pounds in revenue. The consumer consumes only 50 of that good for 20 pounds each, paying 1000 pounds. The extra 1000 pounds the producer earns here is willed into existence, and the 50 goods surplus is just handwaved away. Since every exchange of goods and money happens in this way, these resources are being generated and destroyed a million times every day throughout the world. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 19, 2022 23:53
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My desire to have a simulated global currency market is tempered by the knowledge that even 3 more trade goods would melt everyone's CPUs.
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Dec 20, 2022 00:35
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can’t wait for Victoria 4
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Dec 20, 2022 00:52
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:My desire to have a simulated global currency market is tempered by the knowledge that even 3 more trade goods would melt everyone's CPUs. Selling money orders so you don't have to use convoys to transport physical coins.
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Dec 20, 2022 01:51
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:My desire to have a simulated global currency market is tempered by the knowledge that even 3 more trade goods would melt everyone's CPUs. I wonder if the opposite is true as well. So removing meat, fruits, wine and other useless stuff will make the game blazingly fast. Also yes, I know that means that cows now eat grain to produce grain. Don't ask.
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Dec 20, 2022 01:57
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Obviously each class of trade good, staple, industrial, luxury, should be broken out to its own to thread with its own dedicated cpu to run it. 
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Dec 20, 2022 02:17
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Arrath posted:Obviously each class of trade good, staple, industrial, luxury, should be broken out to its own to thread with its own dedicated cpu to run it. You're joking but that's probably why the categories exist in the first place. *Edit* Not literally with cpu threads but figuring out what goods pops are using per category feels O(n^2) hard to me, so keeping categories to 4 or less and eliminating industrial goods from the equation entirely is a big deal. Blorange fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 02:55
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Happy Litterbox posted:I wonder if the opposite is true as well. So removing meat, fruits, wine and other useless stuff will make the game blazingly fast. Also yes, I know that means that cows now eat grain to produce grain. Don't ask. A compromise would be to just merge fruit and meat. They're identical as far as I can tell, £30 base price, only used by pops, basic and luxury foods goods baskets, 50% weight for basic food. So they're more luxury than basic, so it would be a bit off to just replace them with grain. But if you merged them and gave them 80% max contribution to basic/luxury food needs I think the only difference would be that banana plantations etc would compete with ranches and whaling more directly, plus obsessions/taboos. Also you could fulfill needs with less diversity of goods. Not sure that's actually a huge deal, though. Same for wine, tea, and coffee, of course. And luxury clothes and luxury furniture, and porcelain is only different from those in slight base price difference. Blorange posted:You're joking but that's probably why the categories exist in the first place. Pops do buy industrial goods—coal and oil are used for heating.
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Dec 20, 2022 02:59
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Staltran posted:Pops do buy industrial goods—coal and oil are used for heating. Yeah, there are actually a lot of industrial items that pops use such as glass, fabric and paper. It's still worth noting that each need category contains no more than 5 items, and the ones that do have 5 seem to have a 'best' item that pops try to buy first, like electricity or groceries.
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Dec 20, 2022 03:10
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:My desire to have a simulated global currency market is tempered by the knowledge that even 3 more trade goods would melt everyone's CPUs. paradox coding is removing people's ability to dream 
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Dec 20, 2022 04:02
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Videogames don't really try to honestly simulate physics with all of its F=ma and all. Because even in physics-based puzzle games it's an overkill that introduces a lot of unnecessary issues. Just make this box have 10 HP instead of simulating bend & break process. Just make those goods magically appear with a higher price instead of simulating black markets, resell, artisan replacements, substitution, and so on. They could, say, make it so that it's not necessary to use opium for medicine and there's an alternative more costly or less effective way to do the same, but it gives us the same result: you want opium if you want quality troops, without it you either pay more or deal with the fact that amputations become much more adventerous. Detailed uncompromising simulations can be a thing of beauty but on a global scale, you can't escape ridiculousness. In Victoria 1 you needed Mechanisms to build any factory, including Mechanisms factory. At the start of the game, only British have Mechanism factories. If you play as Brits and just close this factory then congratulations, you stopped industrialization. IIRC there were some events that gave mechanisms to people or you even got some from research, but it was still ridiculous. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 10:19
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The thing is, though, is that things like the gold standard were really really important in 19th century history, and tied in with things like economic and political populism. Just see the Bimetallism controversy. Overall I do think the game needs crises of overproduction, as it really misrepresents 19th century political and economic history as a smooth and steady rise, rather than lurching from crisis to crisis.
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Dec 20, 2022 16:16
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The problem is doing that while also making it fun to play and not murdering your PC (more than it already is).
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Dec 20, 2022 17:00
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AG3 posted:The problem is doing that while also making it fun to play and not murdering your PC (more than it already is). There might be a market for a super-grognard version of this, with a fairly basic UI that's optimized to the gills (as to once again not murder your machine). Trouble is this is a niche game already, how would you afford the tech/historical skill needed to actually make it, rather than complain about it on the forums? Vicky 3's UI bells and whistles are nice, as is the simplified market dynamics, the big question is what do you want to be part of the game, as you don't want to model something that isn't important.
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Dec 20, 2022 17:13
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that sounds like paradox's problem tbh. it would be cool i think for victoria to include stuff like money supplies and 19th century banking in this game about industrialism and imperialism. it's their job to worry about what's practical or doable or marketable honestly i wouldn't have thought vicky 3 would have wide appeal and here we are
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Dec 20, 2022 17:29
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All currencies should be their own trade good.
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Dec 20, 2022 17:46
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A Buttery Pastry posted:All currencies should be their own trade good. 
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Dec 20, 2022 18:31
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Let me raid treasure fleets, I mean convoys trading currency.
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Dec 20, 2022 18:37
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DrSunshine posted:Overall I do think the game needs crises of overproduction, as it really misrepresents 19th century political and economic history as a smooth and steady rise, rather than lurching from crisis to crisis. Such things would probably be better represented by some global systems or event chains like HoI4 world tension or CK3 Iberian struggle etc. It's a gross simplification of course but it's better than trying to model naturally occurring crises that are both serious and do not bring back the dark ages.
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Dec 20, 2022 19:25
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ilitarist posted:Such things would probably be better represented by some global systems or event chains like HoI4 world tension or CK3 Iberian struggle etc. It's a gross simplification of course but it's better than trying to model naturally occurring crises that are both serious and do not bring back the dark ages. That would make sense for the Great Depression, but not the constant boom/bust cycles of the 19th century... I imagine there's some gameplay concern there, with players potentially unable to build anything for years at a time. It would an interesting illustrative example of an economic crisis though : seeing a player unable to afford continue constructing, resulting in the construction sector collapsing, resulting in a further crash in goods demand and tax receipts...
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Dec 20, 2022 22:16
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A modifier to investment pool based on business confidence sounds like the easiest way to handle jt
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Dec 20, 2022 23:01
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Meaningless complaint: idk why settlement/state names can't change when that's been in pdx games forever. We're doing Lower Canada again now that we know wtf is going on and the capital has to be Montréal not just because it's right, but because "Bytown" as capital of Canada is eye-gratingly stupid. Fix that and fix the USA prairie snake. This is the most important country of the period.
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Dec 20, 2022 23:53
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StashAugustine posted:A modifier to investment pool based on business confidence sounds like the easiest way to handle jt Which would allow a wealthy or confident country to do Keynesian spending to maintain circulation while the investment pool imploded.
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Dec 21, 2022 00:09
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Meaningless complaint: idk why settlement/state names can't change when that's been in pdx games forever. We're doing Lower Canada again now that we know wtf is going on and the capital has to be Montréal not just because it's right, but because "Bytown" as capital of Canada is eye-gratingly stupid. Fix that and fix the USA prairie snake. This is the most important country of the period. Land swaps/colonial claims/something resembling the Berlin conference hopefully will be addressed sooner rather than later. Alberta doesn't have enough oil to justify the ugly borders, but I can't help myself.
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Dec 21, 2022 00:11
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Really perplexing when high relationship allies, custom union subordinates, or major trade partners decide to side against you and/or support your rivals when you start a play for land on the other side of the world with little to no infamy. I know diplomatic betrayals happened but this is just shooting yourself in the foot and should be patched out
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Dec 21, 2022 00:36
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 Not a belgian politics expert but this seems like a strange turn of events
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Dec 21, 2022 01:52
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I'm trying to figure out how the Western Protectorate achievement works. It says "Starting as Great Qing, have a treaty port in France, Germany, the British Isles, Iberia and Italy" I'm a bit confused. I'm pretty sure that I don't have to get treaty ports in specific countries, but just areas. But what counts as, for example, "France" - is it the modern nation of France, the in-game nation of France, the French strategic region (which doesn't include Occitania) or does it mean the combined French and Occitania strategic regions? If that recent treaty port change hadn't gone through this would be a real simple matter of just attacking each great power for a treaty port but instead I have to hunt and peck at the nations around them/make them release nations in order to complete this. e: I still don't know what area is what, but I did discover you can make the treaty port a secondary wargoal even if you can't make it a primary. So just put something huge (like the British Raj) on the line so they won't back down and peace out once you get enough for the treaty port. TTBF fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 05:32
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So the game's state is like "It can be good later after expansion packs and patches"? No need to buy it yet?
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Dec 22, 2022 16:55
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It's good now, it will be better later. You're not going to miss anything by not playing now, but if you think it might be up your alley you might as well?
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Dec 22, 2022 17:01
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Ihmemies posted:So the game's state is like "It can be good later after expansion packs and patches"? No need to buy it yet? It's good now, and has really good mod support already. If you want a realisticish simulation of 19th century politics and economics, there really is nothing better out right now, even if it does have some rough edges. Beware, it's basically political Factorio, and if you have an addictive personality to Line Go Up then you may want to carefully watch how much time you burn in this game.
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Dec 22, 2022 17:39
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