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OwlFancier posted:But the drop rate is lousy, which means you have to spend more time actually looking for the poo poo and spending any amount of time trying to navigate the swamps is too much. Sounds like you'd be a lot happier playing in creative and dev commands.
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Dec 20, 2022 14:07
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Captain Oblivious posted:It’s more that all the threats of consequence in the Plains are piercing damage and Root armor is tankier against Pierce than Padded while also protecting against Poison. The weakness to fire also makes me think that the root armor's more suited to keeping your distance. But to be honest I haven't played around with very much — I'm gonna give it a shot and see how it fares.
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Dec 20, 2022 15:01
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I had to migrate away from my root suit when it was time to explore caves, cultists and fire were a problem, but the rest of the time i really love it.
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Dec 20, 2022 15:18
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Hasselblad posted:Sounds like you'd be a lot happier playing in creative and dev commands. I don't mind most of the other biomes it's just the swamp specifically is utterly abysmal. I am already cheating a bunch to get past it as soon as I can. I wish there was some sort of passive thing that would generate wood and stone for you steadily.
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Dec 20, 2022 18:01
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OwlFancier posted:
But yes, it would be nice if there were a bit more automation available once you've done a ton of it already. A slow repair process emanating from wards or upgraded workshops, some slow generation of resources like the above, and fish traps that slowly create fish if you put in bait. Much slower than actually fishing.
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Dec 20, 2022 18:07
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Ravenfood posted:Sharp stakes surrounding a greydwarf spawner might work. I am using the "rune magic" mod which adds the ability to build stones that create ambient effects, one of which is apparently ambient repairs. I currently have one that calms water nearby so I can build harbours in rough seas. But yeah, especially playing solo it would be nice if I could come back to a place after a while to just have some resources and do a bit more building, then go do something else. I'm trying to set up the game to do as much of that as possible, also using a mod that plants stuff for you with a totem. Ideally I think it would be tied to the building system, build a house for an NPC and they move in and generate resources for you, deck it out with stuff to get faster production/more storage. Make the NPCs ghosts or something if you don't want to program actual AI.
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Dec 20, 2022 18:15
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I cheated in base wood and stone because it wasn’t fun or challenging to obtain. Mined 1000s of iron because sailing it all home provided at least some challenge.
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Dec 20, 2022 18:18
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Captain Oblivious posted:It’s more that all the threats of consequence in the Plains are piercing damage and Root armor is tankier against Pierce than Padded while also protecting against Poison. It's interesting that you feel that way, you're definitely not the first person to have said that in the thread (or maybe it was you and I just forgot) but I definitely do not agree re: Plains threats. Javelin Fulings feel like no threat at all unless you're standing still all the time, and it's been ages since I've been killed by a deathsquito. I'd say the Growths and melee Fulings are a bigger threat (though the latter are better countered by an Atgeir than armor). Also Lox, though you can of course choose when you engage those. Personally I'm a way bigger fan of the speed from Fenris armor. OwlFancier posted:But the drop rate is lousy, which means you have to spend more time actually looking for the poo poo and spending any amount of time trying to navigate the swamps is too much. The swamp is pretty damned easy to navigate when you learn how though? Like you can cruise around that poo poo in Troll Armor all day and be fine. Pretty much every mob there is slow enough that you can just use walking away if you don't want to engage them. Use pots to either avoid poison or top up your health if poisoned. And one crypt often yields a full stack or iron or more, and where there's one crypt there's typically five or six. I also haven't had a boat destroyed on me in forever; mobs don't target them unless you're standing in them/nearby but unreachable. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 18:39
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Melee fulings are predictable, but skeeters and the javelin buggers are as noted very prone to hitting you from offscreen.
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Dec 20, 2022 18:42
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PittTheElder posted:The swamp is pretty damned easy to navigate when you learn how though? Like you can cruise around that poo poo in Troll Armor all day and be fine. Pretty much every mob there is slow enough that you can just use walking away if you don't want to engage them. Use pots to either avoid poison or top up your health if poisoned. You can't see poo poo, it's dark, it's raining so your stamina doesn't regen properly. It's full of loving leeches that you have to either flatten your way past or catch bites from, and poison blobs that love to make you waste potions, or loving draugr snipers, or those stupid loving root monsters that are just utterly tiresome to fight because they resist most things and have a giant pile of health and are absurdly lethal in melee. The whole area is just badly designed, it's centered around being a chore, you spend most of the time flattening it, plinking away at the stupid root things so you can get anywhere without one loving you up, looking for stuff to make potions that are basically an existing-in-swamp tax because it's full of stuff that necessitates using them while posing little other threat, and the dungeons are tedious poo poo as well. Not to mention the entire area is the same, it's all the same height and has to be because of the water, it has zero variation in terrain or enemies and even the weather is always the same. It looks like poo poo, it plays like poo poo, the mechanics it introduces are poo poo. The game would be better if that entire biome and that entire stage of progression were just removed IMO. Put iron on fulings instead of black iron and make black iron craftable with stuff dropped from the big fulings or something. Every time I play it i forget how utterly garbage that specifc area is. The game is quite fun before that and you get more things to build after that, and some of the areas are quite nice too, mountains are fun to explore. But I have no idea who decided the game needed a sewer biome full of things that cheap shot you and limit your mobility just to make you grind out resources that aren't even interesting but which you need for a bunch of stuff as well as raw numbers to beat the utterly tedious boss and move onto something, anything else. Especially as you want it for building and poo poo, why on earth is the only way to get iron digging in the loving swamp? Of all the resources that should be renewable, iron should be it. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 19:00
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And yet so many of us are coping with the swamp just fine, so maybe the problem is at your end?  - The wet debuff from the rain is just -15%, not much of an issue as long as you keep your rested buff up - Abominations take chunks of damage from axes, and their attacks can be parried the same as any other mob - Poison resistance mead is drat near trivial to acquire
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Dec 20, 2022 19:26
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Brain Curry posted:I cheated in base wood and stone because it wasn’t fun or challenging to obtain. Mined 1000s of iron because sailing it all home provided at least some challenge. Same here. Sometimes I don't mind logging or digging, sometimes I do. When I don't feel like doing it I spawn in the amount I need and move on, and am fine with it. Those things aren't always engaging and they aren't challenging, so I just view it as making better use of my free time.
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Dec 20, 2022 19:35
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Nordick posted:And yet so many of us are coping with the swamp just fine, so maybe the problem is at your end? Not only that, each time you take a poison resist, it lasts for what, 10 minutes? So one stack, which only takes up one spot in your inventory, can keep you resisted for over an hour and a half, or a bit less if my numbers are wrong. I wasn't a big fan of the swamp when I was underleveled (holy poo poo, doing a death run there is awful), but now, since building our plains house and being decked out in padded armour, it's pretty trivial. The best or worst thing I'll say is that the existence of the swamp at least highlights how much better the other biomes are. The sweet isn't as sweet without the sour. I appreciate that it exists.
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Dec 20, 2022 19:35
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I am sure it is manageable but I don't play games to tolerate them, I simply find the area to be utterly unenjoyable in every possible respect, in a game with otherwise appealing elements.
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Dec 20, 2022 19:36
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Get poison meads, clear a crypt or two, build iron helmet (no speed debuff), build iron mace, kill bonemass. Boom swamp done. You'll need to go back periodically for iron but at that point you should have better gear to make the biome much easier. I also find the swamp really unpleasant and spend as little time there as possible, but I appreciate the design around it. I've almost always gone in multiplayer so that might affect my impression of it. I also recommend turning up your brightness a bit. If it's pitch black at night you've got it set too low.
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Dec 20, 2022 19:36
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e: yeah check your brightness, it's not supposed to be pitch blackOwlFancier posted:You can't see poo poo, it's dark, it's raining so your stamina doesn't regen properly. It's full of loving leeches that you have to either flatten your way past or catch bites from, and poison blobs that love to make you waste potions, or loving draugr snipers, or those stupid loving root monsters that are just utterly tiresome to fight because they resist most things and have a giant pile of health and are absurdly lethal in melee. Yeah the stamina penalty isn't that bad, no worse than if it's just raining somewhere else of course. Also you absolutely do not need to flatten the swamp, just move along the high ground and logs and stuff. Only reason to make paths is to pull carts, or if you're running a farm route for coal on the regular. The leeches are trivial to avoid because they're slow as poo poo (also you should want to smash them because blood bags are great), poison blobs die in two hits of a mace or one of the special attack which you can typically do before they get the poison attack off (I carry pots in the swamp but typically do not need to use them). Root monsters can be chopped, or you just lure them over to a geyser and watch them burn to death in five seconds. It's honestly less dangerous than the black forest is the first time you go in there (given that you won't have any gear). e: oh yeah, and never ever dig the ground iron lol, I just pretend it does not exist PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 19:39
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I like the challenge of the swamp, especially if you only had troll armor so everything is dangerous, bonus points if you make roads through the swamp or little way-stations to rest up or use crypt entrances to make campfires. What I think they did poorly with the swamp is the "buried treasure finder" as a alternative way to get iron but almost all of it is below the water table and can very likely cause a drowning death if you get unlucky on how you dig down, making it just too much hassle to ever bother with.
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Dec 20, 2022 19:42
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The darkness doesn't help but the main issue is that it's an extremely muddy colour palette and everything looks the same. Doesn't help that I'm colourblind so it looks the same anyway but generally I find the environments in the game quite readable. Forests can be tricky but the black forest at least has most of the foliage as a canopy, so there are distinct layers and the blue/orange lighting helps with orientation and adds variation allowing you to pick out things. Also it actually looks nice. Swamp looks like poo poo soup and I can barely see stuff like leeches or indistinct lumps in the distance that might be crypts or might be random bits of ruin.
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Dec 20, 2022 19:51
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Easy way to deal with Aboms is to kite it over a surtling pit, it annihilates them fyi. Also just taking your lumps they are really easy to learn how to parry since their telegraphs are super deliberate. Idk the swamp kinda rules aside from the wet debuff. It has a ton of every midgame resource you will want and good enemy variety. e: also if you want to super cheese crypts and make them trivial, build the Stagbreaker. When you are halfway through the gunk and see enemies in the other room you can just spam slam with the Stagbreaker and kill them all without being attackable. Firebert fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 19:57
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I learned to love the swamp after living in it a bit, the unbreakable trees make for a great home after a bit of work.
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Dec 20, 2022 20:56
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I made a treehouse once as a staging area but as the place is horribly ugly and building much else would be a chore I have never built anything beyond the bare minimum. If you must though yes the trees are the best idea because it gets you away from all the other poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2022 21:00
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Yeah, i always try and find a meadow near the biome i need and set up there.
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Dec 20, 2022 21:09
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I like to follow the lines of the trees and make something organic and swampy looking
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Dec 20, 2022 21:17
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If the biome were less horrible I would probably like to do that myself, if the giant rocks in the plains were indestructable I would probably try there too, it would be a nice application of the building system. A sort of fossilized forest mini biome in the plains or somewhere else would be nice. The game should make more use of the building system to polybridge your way across interesting terrain. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 21:19
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The swamp being g hard doesn't make it bad design. Mostly I'm annoyed now because I can't find enough abominations to craft the armor I want. Got enough iron for a full suite of weapons and armor and only 3 abominations. Might just do iron after all and head into the mountains with that. E: I also can't walk without tripping over the circle of stones with 2 draugr spawners and a skeleton spawner. It's a bit excessive. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 00:38
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OwlFancier posted:You can't see poo poo, it's dark, it's raining so your stamina doesn't regen properly. It's full of loving leeches that you have to either flatten your way past or catch bites from, and poison blobs that love to make you waste potions, or loving draugr snipers, or those stupid loving root monsters that are just utterly tiresome to fight because they resist most things and have a giant pile of health and are absurdly lethal in melee. This is very Bizarro world to read. Pretty much my entire playgroup of 6-7 feel that Swamp is hands down the best designed biome in the game and the most interesting to progress through. Abominations are fun to fight and have a variety of valid strategies, crypts encourage engaging with a variety of mechanics (carting between crypts, having a forward person hoe a path for the journey both between crypts and back to the ship), just in general a variety of threats in the swamp and rewards for preparation (poison resist and so on). Swamps are probably the high watermark of progression. Meanwhile mountains and plains felt very perfunctory and straight forward. They fell like dominoes pretty effortlessly with the tools provided by swamp. Mistlands is the first time since swamps that I've felt fully engaged. Black Forest is still the worst biome in the game tho. Bronze just sucks complete rear end. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 00:46
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I've tried multiple re-runs of the game and unless I can play with buddies to make it shorter, I consistently burnout when I get to the swamps. I'd say that anything that makes players stop playing the game is bad design. Personally I'd say it's the prospect of grinding yet ANOTHER ore, after I just got done with one (two). And not just another ore, but basically grinding it in a very similar way. It'd be so much more fun if abominations exploded with ore after you killed them. Or if there were draugr villages in the swamps that had ingots / ore. Or if draugr dropped ingots. Give me alternatives!
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Dec 21, 2022 00:48
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Conquering the swamp was fun, but ours was pretty big and ended up having barely any iron at all and it wasn't going to be fun to just do it again when we were ready to progress past it. We made a nice camp right outside the swamps and all the swamp hazards feel like twisted impossible horrors at first then you learn how to handle them and they're totally manageable. That's how I like hazards to feel, and while it being tough to deal with means I don't wanna have to do it again, I don't think the game should be designed around playing it over and over again, part of why the swamp feels good to get past is because it's something I don't wanna go back to and earned my way to not have to. If the swamp was just made into spooky flavoured black forest then it's just a soggy backdrop if you wanna make a spooky dollhouse or whatever there.
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Dec 21, 2022 01:21
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I think the worst thing about the swamp isn't about the swamp at all, it's how much Iron you need, especially if you build with it. If you needed as much iron as you needed silver or bronze I don't think the swamps would seem so bad. But you just have to go back again and again and again. This playthrough I just decided that after clearing my first large swamp (~14 crypts) I would just spawn iron in when I needed it. When I'm building a plains base and nothing from the swamp is more than a mild annoyance it gets old fast.
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Dec 21, 2022 01:30
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Yeah, isn't swamp the only biome you have to go back to two biomes after clearing it? IMO padded armor should require something other than iron.
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Dec 21, 2022 01:35
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Yeah, isn't swamp the only biome you have to go back to two biomes after clearing it? IMO padded armor should require something other than iron. If only there were a new ore in the biome that padded armor is introduced in. Oh well, what a shame!
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Dec 21, 2022 01:39
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I installed a mod that lets me buy ores from the trader so now I am doing literally anything other than the swamp to get money to buy iron. Such as killng fulings and selling their heads.
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Dec 21, 2022 02:45
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I have basically no complaints on the swamp. I went from troll to iron with no issues.
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Dec 21, 2022 02:47
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I'm not against the swamp, most of my issues are when the game goes from 20 minutes of dead silence to spawning 5+ enemies on my rear end at once leading to me getting run down under slowed stamina regen and unexpected swimming. While all biomes do the first part, the swamp's uneven terrain and pools deep enough for swimming make a rapid escape more noticeably annoying. The vast majority of the time it's just quiet exploration and resource gathering, so one only focuses on the dying to unexpected combat. But that's how the game paces itself. Our server isn't dead, but we're down to four regulars. We can't do Bonemass and advance the world threat meter until one of the main guys has time to do it, and he currently has no time to do it   In the mean I used the thread's Stabgreaker trick to get full silver and built a coal farm on an Ashlands region
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Dec 21, 2022 02:51
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is running around mountains hitting every bit of ground with the stagbreaker until you find a crumb of silver really better than just doing bonemass?
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Dec 21, 2022 02:58
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You skipped over the part where on said server we all agreed to not to Bonemass until specific people were available, and currently at least one hasn't been.
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Dec 21, 2022 03:04
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Andrigaar posted:You skipped over the part where on said server we all agreed to not to Bonemass until specific people were available, and currently at least one hasn't been. I guess I mean more in general, I've seen people advocate for skipping to iron with the stagbreaker trick. just sounds crazy tedious to me but if you got time to kill
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Dec 21, 2022 04:16
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on the computer posted:is running around mountains hitting every bit of ground with the stagbreaker until you find a crumb of silver really better than just doing bonemass? On one server I found a big mountain and started a trench from meadows up it. Put fires every so often, just zigzagged up and through rocks as much as I could for drake cover. Eventually I randomly hit some silver veins and completely excavated them. I did all this with an antler pickaxe and no armor and no mead, the fires kept freezing off me Then I found out you can't pop the silver vein without removing one chunk with iron pickaxe. Huge letdown
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Dec 21, 2022 04:18
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on the computer posted:I guess I mean more in general, I've seen people advocate for skipping to iron with the stagbreaker trick. just sounds crazy tedious to me but if you got time to kill Oh, yea, it can be fairly tedious and you'll die a few times. But I glanced around online for tips to verify the trick and people said silver usually existed at a cross-section of nearby obsidian and a golem's patrol. That actually narrows it down a bit, and makes it harder because the risk of death increases. It didn't take too long actually to find three deposits across two biomes. I tried for maybe a single day cycle to hunt swamp iron the same way and that felt crazy tedious to get between zero and one piece.
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Dec 21, 2022 06:59
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I agree that the swamp is annoying as poo poo. - The only way to get iron is from crypts, which sometimes don't spawn in a swamp biome. And the fact that you're farming it inside a dungeon, which itself may be deep inside the swamp, makes hauling it back to your base tedious as hell. And you need lots of it! - Unless you're an expert, you'll need to make and bring poison resist mead to avoid a premature and surprising death. - The terrain is difficult to navigate, which means you can easily get cornered when fighting, or get stuck when trying to run. - Easy to get bit and poisoned by leeches when crossing water, as they are difficult to spot especially if you're in the middle of a fight. - You're always wet because of the rain, which means your stamina and health regen are lower. - Unlike trolls, abominations can be difficult to spot when dormant and this can lead to getting ambushed by one. It's basically a huge spike in difficulty going from BF to Swamp, than from Meadows to BF. There's way more danger vectors that you constantly need to be on the look out for. And there's a ton of tedium that comes with it. I personally find the mountain biome way easier in general, despite the difficulty of vertical movement. Thorn Wishes Talon fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 08:06
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