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Imo it'd be cool if we got some Deathwatch dude on loan or something as our space marine. Also it'd be sick if the inevitable Eldar companion was a Corsair from Comorragh or something
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Dec 18, 2022 07:46
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Space Wolves are my favourite and I've collected them since I was a teen so I'm very happy to get a game with a poochie in it. E: I'm very cognizant of the fact that my first run through is going to be big idiot smash while my trader stands around going haha that's good smashing no matter the situation. JBP fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Dec 18, 2022 |
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Dec 18, 2022 07:48
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CommunityEdition posted:Might have scaled well to get an initiate companion to keep on the straight-and-narrow (or not!) through turbo-puberty. Space-Puppy.
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Dec 18, 2022 08:18
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Buschmaki posted:Imo it'd be cool if we got some Deathwatch dude on loan or something as our space marine. Also it'd be sick if the inevitable Eldar companion was a Corsair from Comorragh or something Oh... uh... spoilers ahoy, I suppose: Judging by the look of his armour, the Woof is a regular ol' space wolf, all grey and gold. As for the Eldar, she's a Craftworlder, so no BDSM for you  CommunityEdition posted:Might have scaled well to get an initiate companion to keep on the straight-and-narrow (or not!) through turbo-puberty. Good point, the Woof being a Blood Claw could also work.
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Dec 18, 2022 11:44
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One underappreciated factor that elevates space marines from killing machines to demigods of war is organization. It's rare to see a marine, but it's even more rare to see *just one*. Wolves hunt in packs.
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Dec 20, 2022 15:20
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:Wolves hunt in packs. Goblins ill like fire! IthilionTheBrave fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 23:53
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Depends on the chapter. The Iron Snakes have a one riot one ranger policy for smaller incidents, and in the Sabbat Worlds crusade, a high ranking Imperial officer being able to wrangle three Space Marines for a mission was exceptional. (And even then, it was only because he'd impressed a chapter in a major battle previously). The thing about Space Marines is that they're very rare. Maybe 10 million of them active in the entire Imperium, and that's a very optimistic estimate. It means you need to be willing to use them however the situation demands, because you don't have enough to get picky. (For comparison, Kreig produces 50 million Guardsmen. Every year.)
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Dec 21, 2022 04:08
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:One underappreciated factor that elevates space marines from killing machines to demigods of war is organization. It's rare to see a marine, but it's even more rare to see *just one*. Wolves hunt in packs. They do assign single marines to a lot of random bullshit. Like a whole planet is under siege but it's not really worth a lot to anyone. Send one bloke in power armour should be fine.
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Dec 21, 2022 04:25
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And they'll take few if any casualties in the process. Marines punch hugely above their weight, at least in the fiction if not the games. I mean the 13th Black Crusade consisted of maybe a few hundred thousand Chaos marines and yet the Imperium's casualties were in the trillions.
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Dec 21, 2022 12:22
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chiasaur11 posted:Depends on the chapter. 1 million. There are 1000 chapters, each with 1000 Marines. Of course that assumes the chapters are full up, which they almost never are.
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Dec 21, 2022 12:41
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Anarcho-Commissar posted:
lotta nervous chapter masters nodding along here and scratching the backs of their necks
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Dec 21, 2022 13:43
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Anarcho-Commissar posted:1 million. Whatever nonsense the Black Templars are getting up to probably makes up for understrength chapters  But anyways, I always figured the main power/utility of Space Marines is the ability to take care of high-value targets and objectives. Sure, you could put them on the front line of whatever conflict and they'll probably rack up an impressive kill count, but that's kind of a waste since you can achieve the same effect with just a tank or two. The real trick is throwing them directly at the enemy's HQ or flagship or whatever important thing they got without actually having to fight your way there the old-fashioned way. For anybody else it'd be a suicide mission with zero chance of success, but Space Marines will get it done and probably even come out alive the other end. And since 40k usually operates on the logic of load-bearing leaders, just taking out the head honcho tends to win a battle or even war in one go.
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Dec 21, 2022 13:51
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:lotta nervous chapter masters nodding along here and scratching the backs of their necks A couple not breaking eye contact and saying "Try doing something about it, motherfucker" and, finally, the Ultramarines saying the suspiciously close co-operation of a bunch of Chapters from the Ultramar region is totally fine and following the Codex no need to re-read it, Inquisitor, we've checked.
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Dec 21, 2022 13:56
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Not to mention the Primaris Marines, who technically aren’t space marines.
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Dec 21, 2022 14:02
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Lassitude posted:And they'll take few if any casualties in the process. Marines punch hugely above their weight, at least in the fiction if not the games. I mean the 13th Black Crusade consisted of maybe a few hundred thousand Chaos marines and yet the Imperium's casualties were in the trillions. A few hundred thousand Chaos marines, and the millions of cultists and other assorted soldiers. Just like with the Imperium, regular(ish) humans fill out the bulk of Abbadon's army and Astartes are used as elite troops.
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Dec 21, 2022 19:09
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Anarcho-Commissar posted:1 million. There are much more now. Guilliman realized they needed higher numbers.
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Dec 21, 2022 19:25
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There's a couple lore 'rules' about the relative strengths of humans. The baseline Imperial Guard are just a human wave with angry flashlights. Their numbers aren't significant until you're getting into the millions. When you get into the famous guardsmen, like Cadians, their basic infantryman is essentially a special forces equivalent compared to the average Guardsman. Some of the other ones are more situational, like Catachan Jungle Fighters, who can basically 1v1 an Ork in a knife fight and probably win. A normal Space Marine squad is probably worth an entire battalion (~1000) of regular IG, auxiliary support and all. A large part of that is going to be that the Space Marines are working with the best weapons and armor you can possibly get in the Imperium. Note that the technology is a huge part of it. Give a standard infantry guy a Melta and he's going to be a serious threat to literally everything and everyone if he manages to not die in the first 30 seconds of combat.
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Dec 21, 2022 19:26
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pentyne posted:Give a standard infantry guy a Melta and he's going to be a serious threat to literally everything and everyone if he manages to not die in the first 30 seconds of combat. Not the way I’ve rolled in my last 5 matches…
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Dec 22, 2022 06:15
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MonsterEnvy posted:There are much more now. Guilliman realized they needed higher numbers. Guilliman having to admit the Black Templars were right in ways has been kind of funny as a meta plot point.
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Dec 22, 2022 06:52
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Anarcho-Commissar posted:1 million. Sci fi authors not realizing that space is BIG is a favorite of mine.
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Dec 22, 2022 08:57
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I mean the marines are hen's teeth. They did have millions of them but that worked out badly. They have entire planet's of weapon systems and auxiliary support, but they're ultimately like questing knights from little fiefdoms rather than armies.
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Dec 22, 2022 09:46
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Fat Samurai posted:Sci fi authors not realizing that space is BIG is a favorite of mine. Yeah, I'll rag on 40K authors thinking single regiments of thousands of men each are enough to take and hold planets, but the small numbers of Space Marines has a reasonable in-universe justification. Can't really blame Guilliman for being over cautious.
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Dec 22, 2022 11:26
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I just mentally multiply every number like that by 1,000 and it makes a bit more sense.
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Dec 22, 2022 11:41
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JBP posted:I mean the marines are hen's teeth. If they didn't kill 99.99999999... of applicants in the first place.
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Dec 22, 2022 12:03
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JBP posted:I mean the marines are hen's teeth. They did have millions of them but that worked out badly. I mean the very easy solution to something like the Horus Heresy isn't "we don't need to have a logical number of awesome super soldiers any more", it's "don't invest godlike command authority in the hands of like 20 dudes". So instead of 20 legions of 1 million marines each, you have like 2000 legions of 10,000, as an example. If you balkanize the poo poo out of their command structure, even if a few of them turn traitor and fall to Chaos it's a containable problem instead of "whoops it destroyed the galaxy and plunged humanity into darkness for ten thousand years", and thousands of marines is still a planet-eating level of force.
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Dec 22, 2022 12:26
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Honestly, the way I see it all the Imperium's troubles are caused by the Emperor being too dumb to realize that if he didn't want to be worshipped as a god, then maybe he shouldn't have appeared as a 9 foot tall superhuman in resplendent golden power armour who could wipe out armies using mind bullets. That's the sort of thing that gives people like Lorgar ideas.
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Dec 22, 2022 14:38
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I guess the article on the Dark Elder was leading to this. Seems to be a recurring midboss rather than a companion. https://twitter.com/OwlcatGames/status/1605896022881959936
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Dec 22, 2022 14:38
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I dunno; a Dark Eldar Archon seems more like a major enemy to me.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:34
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An Archon would probably be a major antagonist, yeah. In terms of military force, they're the dark eldar equivalents of marine force commanders or imperial guard generals.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:53
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CommissarMega posted:I dunno; a Dark Eldar Archon seems more like a major enemy to me. She's probably gonna get worfed/jobbed, an Archon can just resurrect and come back in the next chapter. I hope she is just extremely bored by Commorragh and turned off all her death protections as a kind of extreme sport, like some of the rich people in the non-Warhammer book Chasm City.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:57
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Zephro posted:I just mentally multiply every number like that by 1,000 and it makes a bit more sense. For most purposes agreed. For Space Marines I multiply by 10. 10k, or basically a division, feels about right for a chapter, with million strong legions back in the day. As does, 'Ok we need to commit some significant strength to this fight' so we're sending a 1000 (company size in fluff) guys off to reinforce that warzone, and also sounds the right size for the marine complement of a Strike cruiser*. Then you send 50-100 (or what would be a combat squad/full squad in fluff)off to complete a specific mission. *And is roughly the troop complement of an actual Marine Amphibious Assault ship.
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Dec 22, 2022 22:44
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CommissarMega posted:Honestly, the way I see it all the Imperium's troubles are caused by the Emperor being too dumb That's more or less every issue with the Imperium. Which made sense before the Horus Heresy books tried to show him as a competent fellow that knew his stuff, but that's usually how fictional superpeople are portrayed by mortal authors. He made sense as a fallible being that kick-started the Imperium then died ignobly.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:44
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He made a literal pact with the devil to get the Primarchs but I don't think it's ever really been hinted at why he felt the need to make that deal. Unless the Primarchs were a necessary step to start mass producing Space Marines.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:52
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Given that he's the great man theory made flesh, it makes sense that the Emperor would assume he needed to have an even superer progenitor for each legion. Even if that wasn't factually true in universe.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:55
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evilmiera posted:That's more or less every issue with the Imperium. Which made sense before the Horus Heresy books tried to show him as a competent fellow that knew his stuff, but that's usually how fictional superpeople are portrayed by mortal authors. He made sense as a fallible being that kick-started the Imperium then died ignobly. Even in the Heresy books, the Emperor is portrayed as kind of an idiot. The heresy happens entirely because the Emperor's grand plan to defeat Chaos was to categorically deny its existence to starve it of power and worship, so he deliberately doesn't warn any of his sons about it or tell them the dangers of it - so half of them become comically easy prey to be snared and corrupted because they literally have no idea that Chaos exists. The Emperor is aware the whole time and he knows what Chaos can do and how it works, he just doesn't tell anyone about it at all. He's also incredibly, tragically terrible at dealing with his flawed demigod sons, basically refusing to interact with them or address any of their concerns, problems, or insecurities, which is the direct reason why at least one of the traitor primarchs turns traitor. Kanos fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Dec 23, 2022 |
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Dec 23, 2022 01:34
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"No you shut the gently caress up dad" but as a comic apocalypse.
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Dec 23, 2022 02:33
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Kanos posted:Even in the Heresy books, the Emperor is portrayed as kind of an idiot. The heresy happens entirely because the Emperor's grand plan to defeat Chaos was to categorically deny its existence to starve it of power and worship, so he deliberately doesn't warn any of his sons about it or tell them the dangers of it - so half of them become comically easy prey to be snared and corrupted because they literally have no idea that Chaos exists. The Emperor is aware the whole time and he knows what Chaos can do and how it works, he just doesn't tell anyone about it at all. Literally all the Emperor had to do was tell Lorgar "Yes Gods are real but they're incredibly bad so idk you can keep building your cathedrals I guess" and the Horus Heresy wouldn't have happened. He didnt even need to be a better dad, he just needed to tell his clone son he engineered specifically to be really persuasive that evil gods exist
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Dec 23, 2022 05:09
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Buschmaki posted:Literally all the Emperor had to do was tell Lorgar "Yes Gods are real but they're incredibly bad so idk you can keep building your cathedrals I guess" and the Horus Heresy wouldn't have happened. He didnt even need to be a better dad, he just needed to tell his clone son he engineered specifically to be really persuasive that evil gods exist Not sure if there was a good solution, but hauling them out in public and brutally humiliating him sure wasn't it. Also super hard to take it seriously while Angron and the World Eaters are pursuing a policy of that could be described as aggressively genocidal towards contacted human empires that showed the slightest hint of resistance (and even some that didn't) The whole 30k era lore went from a bunch of random sourcebook writings and a few scattered mentions to full on entire history thousands of pages in detail in the late 2000s and for some reason the writers at large were either told or naturally decided to just make the Emperor an absolute moron of the highest
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Dec 23, 2022 05:30
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edit: nm
Zephro fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Dec 23, 2022 |
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Dec 23, 2022 11:07
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pentyne posted:The whole 30k era lore went from a bunch of random sourcebook writings and a few scattered mentions to full on entire history thousands of pages in detail in the late 2000s and for some reason the writers at large were either told or naturally decided to just make the Emperor an absolute moron of the highest How much did we know about the Big E before the Heresy books? Because I could swear there were enough hints here and there that he wasn't a very good father at the very least, before those books came out. CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Dec 23, 2022 |
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Dec 23, 2022 12:52
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