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Magnetic North posted:How do people generally assess 401k plans with lovely or punitive vesting schedules? I've basically been treating them as having zero match since I don't expect to be around for 6 years or whatever bullshit. Treat the vesting plan as much as you are actually vested. If you have $1000 vested, that's what you should think it is. Even if the unvested part is $5000. If you're new to the plan and have $0 vested, think of it that way. If you end up sticking around the full 6 years then you'll feel like you have an extra jump in your savings, but if you are gone in 2 years then the unvested money will have zero impact on your life and retirement. If you're thinking of changing jobs, you might want to time it around your vesting date. I had an employee leave about two weeks before his next vesting date (he would have gone from 20% to 40% vested). His actual dollars lost was about $2000, but his new job wanted him to start right away. In my employer's case, we have an up to 4% safe harbor match (put in 5% to get 4%), 100% vested immediately, plus a discretionary profit sharing contribution with a 7 year vesting schedule. This profit sharing is put in when the company feels like it, at an amount the company feels like (so even if you contribute 0%, you can still get PS contribution). I suggest to most employees to view this as an extra bonus for their retirement, but not to plan around it happening every year. That being said, I sure like seeing my plan balance jump once a year when an extra 5% or 10% is put in as a Profit Sharing item.
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Dec 21, 2022 18:23
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tumblr hype man posted:IRA contribution limit is $6,000 for 2022. Well this explains why I've never had to worry about hitting the max on my 401k.  At least now I can have a think on what to put in my IRAs since I've been bad about that too. Here's a noob question that I might have asked before: is it advisable to always max out an HSA if possible? I have 18k built up in the account after a few years and a 7k high deductible plan. Currently healthy and in my early 30s but I wouldn't be suprised if I get bitch slapped by cancer or heart problems around 60 given family history. Dunno if I should scale it back a little and put the extra funds into retirement or house buying funds?
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Dec 21, 2022 19:06
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Magnetic North posted:How do people generally assess 401k plans with lovely or punitive vesting schedules? I've basically been treating them as having zero match since I don't expect to be around for 6 years or whatever bullshit. Depends on the schedule. Our place is 25% per year over four years, match up to 5% of gross salary. As a result you can basically consider your Year 1 Match to be 25%*5% of salary. Instead of a guaranteed 100% return that year on 5% of comp, I have a guaranteed 25% return, which is worse - but given the opportunity you'd sign up for a guaranteed 25% rate of return in a heartbeat. Turbinosamente posted:Well this explains why I've never had to worry about hitting the max on my 401k. I think it's always advisable to max out the HSA because it functions as a traditional IRA if you don't use it, and there are no income limits to the tax deductibility of contributions. There's no disadvantage to putting money there vs your 401(k) other than the lack of a match. If you're already getting full match on 401(k), you should be putting the next incremental $ in to HSA if available to you.
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Dec 21, 2022 19:40
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:
I assume 'functions like an IRA' means withdrawing it for whatever after I'm 65? Cause the interest it currently earns is negligible. And I am exceedingly lucky that my employer contributes a little bit to my HSA as well, but I think they're scaling back that contribution to offset the rise in cost of the plans next year.
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Dec 21, 2022 19:55
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Turbinosamente posted:I assume 'functions like an IRA' means withdrawing it for whatever after I'm 65? Cause the interest it currently earns is negligible. And I am exceedingly lucky that my employer contributes a little bit to my HSA as well, but I think they're scaling back that contribution to offset the rise in cost of the plans next year. oh no dude what is your HSA invested in
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Dec 21, 2022 19:55
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:oh no dude what is your HSA invested in Checking account at major bank. Edit: I don't actually know the interest rate I just assume its jack poo poo. Turbinosamente fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 22:53
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Turbinosamente posted:Here's a noob question that I might have asked before: is it advisable to always max out an HSA if possible? I have 18k built up in the account after a few years and a 7k high deductible plan. Currently healthy and in my early 30s but I wouldn't be suprised if I get bitch slapped by cancer or heart problems around 60 given family history. Dunno if I should scale it back a little and put the extra funds into retirement or house buying funds? Generally yes you should....but.... KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:oh no dude what is your HSA invested in It should be invested in the market so you get the growth (mine is in VFIAX). If that is not an option with your HSA you should look at moving it to another custodian every year or so (you have to look at the details on this with the plan as sometimes it is very costly to move) BTW very healthy 36 year old here and hit my max OOP (only $3500) at age 32 (broken collar bone) and age 36 (kidney stone). soooo yeah just keep saving in that HSA.
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Dec 22, 2022 00:30
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HSAs seem neat
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Dec 22, 2022 02:13
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Ornery and Hornery posted:HSAs seem neat The problem with them is that you can only have them with a HDHP, which tend to also have shittier coverage in general even apart from the deductible. I've taken "no HSA + good insurance" over"HSA/match + HDHP" in every case that I've had a choice, because the differences were so extreme.
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Dec 22, 2022 02:27
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Well, our water heater gave up the ghost and it looks like insurance will be replacing our floors from the utility closet through the kitchen as part of the repairs. Updating the kitchen has been on the radar for awhile, and with new flooring incoming I’m thinking that we should probably strongly consider doing that as the same time since a change in the kitchen footprint is on the wish list. Finances wise, the water heater, water softener that we also replaced at the same time, and the ibonds that of course I just purchased have all done a number on our emergency fund - we don’t have cash on hand to do the kitchen rework as well. We have around 60-70% equity in the home if the current zestimate is in the ballpark. I’m pursuing something FIRE-adjacent with a savings rate of over 50% of my income, so getting a loan for this work will impact those plans but financing this is definitely affordable for us. We have no other debt currently than the mortgage. While I’d prefer not to do a cash out refinance with today’s interest rates, when we refinanced back when the rates were low they sent an appraiser out as part of that process. I’m guessing that having a pending water damage remediation probably isn’t ideal if someone is appraising the home. I’m assuming that a HELOC or 2nd mortgage would have a similar requirement, right? My question is what type of loan should I even be looking at right now? The plan is to go in and talk to a loan officer, but I’d like to have some idea of what I’m looking at prior to.
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Dec 22, 2022 03:06
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Fancy_Lad posted:Well, our water heater gave up the ghost and it looks like insurance will be replacing our floors from the utility closet through the kitchen as part of the repairs. Updating the kitchen has been on the radar for awhile, and with new flooring incoming I’m thinking that we should probably strongly consider doing that as the same time since a change in the kitchen footprint is on the wish list.
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Dec 22, 2022 03:10
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spwrozek posted:Generally yes you should....but.... It's in Key Bank which has this option for moving a portion of the account funds into an investment account. But you have to keep minimums in the regular HSA in order to have that investment account. Which is fine when you're healthy but how fast can you cash in the investment if you do get horribly ill? Just says you have to cash in if you need the invested money, or expect to drop below minimums. Upon reflection perhaps I over thought my situation and should just keep on keeping on, and palm slam my tax return into one of the IRAs next year to feel better.
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Dec 22, 2022 03:45
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Turbinosamente posted:It's in Key Bank which has this option for moving a portion of the account funds into an investment account. But you have to keep minimums in the regular HSA in order to have that investment account. Which is fine when you're healthy but how fast can you cash in the investment if you do get horribly ill? Just says you have to cash in if you need the invested money, or expect to drop below minimums. A health savings account is a retirement vehicle disguised as health care. You have an option to liquidate it in an "emergency," but the "emergency" is going to be medical bills, which means you're going to have several months to do it. If you can't use it to invest, it's a really lovely health savings account. You could use it similarly to an FSA, if you have some sort of chronic condition, but you're probably better off putting your money in a retirement account.
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Dec 22, 2022 04:02
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Sundae posted:The problem with them is that you can only have them with a HDHP Anyone can HAVE an HSA. One can only CONTRIBUTE to an HSA when they are a participant in a HDHP. I, for instance, have gone back and forth through the years on and off HDHPs but have kept my HSA active. I just didn’t make contributions while not in an HDHP.
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Dec 22, 2022 04:05
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dexter6 posted:I’m not implying that you don’t know this but I thought I’d clarify for other readers who may not know: Oh yes - a fair point to call out! You can continue to hold and use funds in an HSA after you leave the HDHP. You don't have to get rid of it after you get onto different insurance that no longer qualifies.
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Dec 22, 2022 04:12
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Turbinosamente posted:It's in Key Bank which has this option for moving a portion of the account funds into an investment account. But you have to keep minimums in the regular HSA in order to have that investment account. Which is fine when you're healthy but how fast can you cash in the investment if you do get horribly ill? Just says you have to cash in if you need the invested money, or expect to drop below minimums. You can cash in the investment in sub 24 hours because it’s in a mutual fund or ETF. At least with mine, the bank will automatically sell funds on either a LIFO or FIFO basis (my choice) to raise cash if I fall below minimums. Seriously dude you gotta get that HSA unfucked.
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Dec 22, 2022 04:19
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Fancy_Lad posted:Well, our water heater gave up the ghost and it looks like insurance will be replacing our floors from the utility closet through the kitchen as part of the repairs. Updating the kitchen has been on the radar for awhile Right now you stand to have someone pay you a few grand to do your floors. You need to decide which is more important - FIRE savings or renovation. Don't remortgage considering the rates right now. Take out a line of credit (heloc probably) and do the renovation if you want to, and kill the loan with your 50% savings rate if the interest rate is higher than the expected returns in the market. Remember to discount the cost by the amount of money that the insurance is offering you.
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Dec 22, 2022 04:59
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You can cash in the investment in sub 24 hours because it’s in a mutual fund or ETF. At least with mine, the bank will automatically sell funds on either a LIFO or FIFO basis (my choice) to raise cash if I fall below minimums. It's not that hosed; the fact that it exists at all is a huge point in its favor. I'll have to make some phone calls tomorrow. Turbinosamente fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Dec 22, 2022 |
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Dec 22, 2022 05:57
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It’s hosed because you have been missing out on years of sick tax advantaged gainz
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Dec 22, 2022 13:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Please stop posting about "personal 401(k)s" as they do not exist. Oh my bad, and i get what you mean. So would a better explanation be “this is not related to your work and is under your name “ ?
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Dec 22, 2022 13:15
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Duckman2008 posted:Oh my bad, and i get what you mean. Yes, the IRA is entirely self managed and has nothing to do with your employer. You pick your broker and you can invest in whatever you please. You can always contribute to an IRA in a given year provided you made income in that year.
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Dec 22, 2022 14:49
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If I have a few grand each in a few disparate 401ks from my last few jobs, does it behoove me to roll them into the pension plan at my current job? Or the Vanguard (mostly Vanguard ETFs) or Fundrise accounts that I trickle money into on the side for savings? Trying to take this whole LTIR thing seriously now that I'm in my 30s and earning decent! For context: I am a municipal worker and I have a fantastic healthplan with nearly zero out-of-pocket and nearly zero pay deduction. My employment offers a pension that I have put a little over $7k in this year, and also offers a 457 plan and a 401k plan (no match on either), and traditional IRA and Roth IRA plans.
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Dec 22, 2022 17:17
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Otis Reddit posted:If I have a few grand each in a few disparate 401ks from my last few jobs, does it behoove me to roll them into the pension plan at my current job? Or the Vanguard (mostly Vanguard ETFs) or Fundrise accounts that I trickle money into on the side for savings? Personally, I rolled everything into my 457. Getting to take penalty-free distributions as soon as you leave your job is huge if you want to retire early, IMO.
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Dec 22, 2022 17:27
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Otis Reddit posted:I am a municipal worker and I have a fantastic healthplan with nearly zero out-of-pocket and nearly zero pay deduction. What municipality is this, and are they hiring?
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Dec 22, 2022 19:00
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I'm a soon to be student with some extra money. I've got enough money to completely cover my tuition, 6 month's rent, budget for food/transport/hanging out and a little bit extra for emergencies. After taking all that into account I've still got around $4,000. I want to invest some of that remainder to get some personal experience with investing, but it's way too little money to talk to my parent's financial advisor. Are there financial advisors that work with small amounts of money like that, or am I more likely to just end up with a scam artist and might as well just look into an ETF or index fund on my own? (I'm aware I might lose all the money I'm investing, I'm just in a place where I'm lucky enough I can afford that risk).
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Jan 1, 2023 07:52
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there are decent fee-only financial advisors that work on a one-time basis and don't care about total assets, but almost any of them would use up a good chunk of $4,000 to make a comprehensive financial plan. the number i see suggested by honest financial advisors tends to be a $500,000 floor, but honestly if you're willing to do some independent research and have the right temperament, financial advisors aren't a strict necessity if you don't think you'd need this money within the next decade, it'd stick it in an sp500 or total market index fund from vanguard or fidelity. you could also consider a target date fund if you have earned income this year, consider putting this money in a roth ira, if you haven't already maxed that account. it'll be locked up until retirement, but if you're a student, the tax free compounding and withdrawal will be very powerful
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Jan 1, 2023 10:12
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The general "safe advice" is to find a broad-based market fund with a low expense ratio. Market funds invest in the economy as a whole, instead of a specific company or industry. This means that they're fairly stable. Expense ratios are how much the fund's operators charge you to put your money in the fund, and they're expressed as a percentage. E.g. an ER of 1% means that you pay 1% of the value of your investment to the operators every year. You should be able to get a market fund with an ER of 0.05% or less. They're very cheap to operate because there's no judgement calls being made in terms of how to allocate funds.
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Jan 1, 2023 15:29
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Shastahanshah posted:I'm a soon to be student with some extra money. I've got enough money to completely cover my tuition, 6 month's rent, budget for food/transport/hanging out and a little bit extra for emergencies. After taking all that into account I've still got around $4,000. If you are entrepreneurial, having a slush fund to get your first business started is great. Even if you lose all your money, it will be a cheap lesson and a great way to grow your maturity. If not, a boring Roth IRA is the way to go. Check out the long term investing thread for specifics.
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Jan 1, 2023 16:47
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My understanding is that an IRA is a retirement account, and there's penalties if you withdraw from it before retirement. That would make it unsuited to saving up for, say, a house, or a car, or any of the myriad large purchases that a student could reasonably expect to have in their pre-retirement future. Is that inaccurate? ETA: vvv aha, thank you TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jan 1, 2023 |
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Jan 1, 2023 17:07
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:My understanding is that an IRA is a retirement account, and there's penalties if you withdraw from it before retirement. That would make it unsuited to saving up for, say, a house, or a car, or any of the myriad large purchases that a student could reasonably expect to have in their pre-retirement future. You can withdraw your contributions (not gains) from a Roth IRA at any time without penalty.
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Jan 1, 2023 17:15
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Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but it seems like this is the most "general discussion" thread. At what point should I consider "counting" on non-salary money, at least in terms of using it in my mental calculations? Like, say, when considering whether or not I could/should buy a more expensive home. From this point forward, you can label this as "oh woe is me humblebrag", so feel free to skip! Hear me out on this. I'm the opposite of an overspend-risk. I think this is more of a "the money is there and you can probably think of using it for stuff". I'm possibly too conservative, which is typically fine, but I'm wondering if I'm not letting myself consider moving to a larger, nicer home solely because the numbers scare me compared to our normal, everyday budget. I tend to think in terms of "well this has to come out of our normal budget, I can't count on extra money" and maybe I should consider that, at least to some point. Some details: First, I'm incredibly lucky/fortunate. Get that out there right away. Save yourself, turn back now. Just completed my second year being self-employed, I have a single-owner S-corp LLC. I pay myself less than my flat/contracted amount would allow so I can pay out owner distributions and save the employer side of payroll taxes. So even at the base, I have "extra" money that I can somewhat count on. Year one I did pretty good, paid myself an $80k salary had some small bonuses so I was able to put money into a SEP IRA and do a $20k owner distribution. In 2022, I paid myself the same 80k base salary, but between picking up another contract (2022 will have been the most I make from it, hopefully it goes away this year) and getting some substantial bonuses, I maxed my SEP IRA and between distributions and year end bonus (distributions are recommended to not go above 40% of your salary), I paid out an additional after-tax $58k to myself. In late December, I receive a surprise year-end bonus from my main contract for $50k. I requested it to be dated for 2023 because all my stuff was figured out already for 2022. But that means very likely for 2023 I will be in AT LEAST the same place I was in 2022 for "extra money". As a start, I will be at least paying myself a higher base (95k) this year to allow for slightly higher SEP-IRA and distributions off the bat and give our monthly budget a bump. Now, my second contract had a lot of work done this year that I hope goes away so I'm not counting on that money going forward. My main contract I'm not leaving, and I think for the sake of argument should be considered very secure (at least in terms of base income), but I'm also not planning on counting on very large bonuses every year. tl;dr How do I psychologically tell myself it's ok to acknowledge that a $500k house is not "omg the scariest thing ever", especially when you consider our house (worth ~$200k ish) is almost paid off.
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Jan 1, 2023 18:30
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You say our, is your spouse working? A single fluctuating income is kind of okay to be conservative about since there is a lot of risk there. Suppose you sell your house, net $200k, put down half of that on a $500k place- that gives you $100k in cash of leeway to help with mortgage payments. That's a good emergency fund. Maybe enough to ease your mind. But if your business goes tits up for a couple years, are you going to be forced to move? Moreover, why do you want a bigger place? If it's just to have a nicer house, there's plenty in between $200 and $500k that would be less risky. Buying a house more than twice as expensive as your current one seems like a huge jump. That said, if you are going to do it, I'd wait until you have a bigger chunk saved up than just the proceeds of your current house. How much cash/savings do you have now other than that?
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Jan 2, 2023 07:45
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moana posted:You say our, is your spouse working? A single fluctuating income is kind of okay to be conservative about since there is a lot of risk there. Yes, I'm married and my wife has a very stable job (local government, been there 15+ years). She makes around 60k. I would LIKE a larger, nicer home. It's not a necessity, but I work from home and spend all my time here. Our house is small (~1200sqft). We have two school aged kids, my daughter's bedroom is very small. I would like to have a home where we could have a spare bedroom for guests, and if I'm being really greedy, a dedicated office for myself. My wife gets ready in the morning in our main bath, because the bathroom in our bedroom is very, very small. Nice that we have two bathrooms for sure, but it's not ideal. The closet in our room is the smallest in the house, which is challenging for two adults even though the bulk of my wardrobe is WFH-slob-chic. We'd like to stay in the same school district since the kids (11 and 8) are established with friends and sports. We live in a large (geographic) school district, but it's still small population-wise. There are houses that exist in the $350-400 range, but you don't really see them because it feels like they're sold before they even make it to market. I threw our $500k for a couple of reasons, there was a house we considered looking at that was $499k, but ultimately decided against it. That one has been on the market for a little while because of interest rates, and I would anecdotally guess that's higher than most people's budgets around here. ~$350k would be the sweetspot of people being able to afford something. I've been keeping my eye open for a while, and all of last year there was one house that we saw and liked, but it was already pending and went for over asking price ($469k). We have $50k saved with no real current purpose for it (though my large bonus check available to me now that I could write a $38k owner distribution today), the tentative plan is to get a second quote for exterior updates to see if the first quote was in line, but ultimately we'll probably just pay off the mortgage to feel like we are accomplishing something. That's the other monkeywrench: Our house needs some work. Not like falling apart deathtrap work, but living in a workzone unfinished projects work. So we're not able to immediately post our house up for sale anyway, if we're trying to make the maximum we can without overimproving things. I don't think staying here is the end of the world, but at some point we're going to be throwing money at this house that we'll never see back where it seems like it would be easier to "just buy a nicer place". As boring as it is, continuing to stockpile money and paying off the house/making smart improvements is probably the best bet to keep our options open.
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Jan 2, 2023 15:57
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I live in 1200 and would not really want to do it with two kids so I am gonna give you permission to go ahead and do it. It sounds like you have a pretty consistent $140K household income so I don't think that $500K of house is too much considering you have probably like $150 down easily. The only thing that might give me a little bit of pause is rest of your long term savings, retirement, kids college, etc. How's all that look? If it looks solid I think this is a good use of money.
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Jan 2, 2023 16:41
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Yeah, with a stable second income, that is very conservative. I would use the extra cash from selling your house to max out retirement accounts (solo 401k?) since you already have a lot of cash for emergencies. You'll want to post for sale in summer anyway, but get a realtor now and they might have contacts for contractors who can help you finish up those projects quicker. The realtor will want to help you get er dun to be able to put the house up for sale.
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Jan 2, 2023 17:28
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moana posted:The realtor will want to help you get er dun to be able to put the house up for sale. This is once again becoming really important now that all homes everywhere don't immediately get an offer 10% above asking as soon as they are listed. Repairs and renovations don't make you any more money when selling a house. Best case they are neutral. Their purpose is to sell your home faster and without a bunch of negotiations after your prospective buyer gets an inspector through the place. Just fix major defects, minor ones if it's cheap enough/you have the trade in there already (example: you need to get one bathroom redone entirely because it's rotting out? When the tile guy comes by have him touch up any grout cracks in the other bathroom). Maybe throw a coat of paint in some rooms if they are tired/dirty and can't be cleaned. Your real estate agent, if they are good, should be able to help you triage what should be done based on their super local experience of buyers in your market looking for homes of that type and cost. This is one of the places a good selling agent is supposed to earn their commission. Feel free to interview several and ask specific questions like what they would want to see you do before listing.
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Jan 2, 2023 17:36
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Thanks for the feedback, it makes me feel better hearing it from likewise-financially-conservative people. This is all pretty new to me.KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I live in 1200 and would not really want to do it with two kids so I am gonna give you permission to go ahead and do it. It sounds like you have a pretty consistent $140K household income so I don't think that $500K of house is too much considering you have probably like $150 down easily. I'd give us a grade of "good, not great". I maxed out my SEP-IRA last year on the employer/tax advantaged side ($27,500 based on salary), we are contributing to two 529s (we could do more here), and my wife is contributing 15% toward her 403b. This year we'll have made too much money to contribute to Roth IRAs, which we had been doing in previous years. Next step (if we weren't prioritizing possible home stuff) would be brokerage account, maybe?
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Jan 2, 2023 18:45
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dreesemonkey posted:Thanks for the feedback, it makes me feel better hearing it from likewise-financially-conservative people. This is all pretty new to me. If nothing else you're showing you're financially responsible so that puts you a step above a lot of other posts I've seen here through the years.
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Jan 2, 2023 18:59
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dreesemonkey posted:Thanks for the feedback, it makes me feel better hearing it from likewise-financially-conservative people. This is all pretty new to me. You can still contribute to a Roth IRA through the back door provided you don’t have traditional IRA balances. Nice work on that SEP IRA contribution, that’s a good chunk of money. I’m generally in favor of prioritizing retirement savings over 529 plan contributions. The annual tax advantages of contributions to 529s are minimal compared to retirement contributions, and you get a lot less compounding time so you need to be relatively conservative. And without starting a debate about the US higher education system, your kids can take out loans if necessary. You cannot take out loans to fund your retirement, and if your retirement is underfunded you’ll be leaning on your kids more. Still, I think if you can swing the house while maintaining current retirement contribution levels you should be just fine.
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Jan 2, 2023 19:24
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Unfortunately he cannot do backdoor Roth since he has a SEP IRA (this is considered like a traditional IRA and is subject to pro-rata). In order to do backdoor Roth he would have to roll his SEP IRA into a 401k. He could do this by establishing a solo 401k, but this is more complex than the usual "just do a backdoor Roth" guides out there. I'd still recommend it, 401k is a better retirement account because it doesn't mess up your IRA stuff, but you're probably too late for the 2022 year (since on Dec 31 you had money in the SEP IRA) and would have to work on getting everything set up for 2023.
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Jan 2, 2023 19:54
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