Warhammer: After 18 years, finally an end

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Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

Telsa Cola posted:

I think old (and I mean old) canon is that dorns body was recovered.

New (yet still pretty old) is that they only recovered his hand and never found a body.

Current canon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMV_H3Q8ubQ

# ? Dec 21, 2022 22:32

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 20:18

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

bob dobbs is dead posted:

ive seen weird speculation for dorn, lorgar, malcador, some aspect of the malcador, the star child, some aspect of the emperor and the khan

the only real certain statement is that we're gonna get a grael model for a hundred quid and some other models

A star child style plot has been teased in the Dawn of Fire books

# ? Dec 21, 2022 22:40

Roller Coast Guard: Aug 27, 2006; With this magnificent aircraft,
and my magnificent facial hair,
the British Empire will never fall!

Telsa Cola posted:

I think old (and I mean old) canon is that dorns body was recovered.

Old old old canon is that the Imperial Fists had Dorn's body but the hands were missing.

# ? Dec 21, 2022 23:01

Noblesse Obliged: Apr 7, 2012

The new cannon is Dorns hand. He calls it boomfist

# ? Dec 21, 2022 23:44

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Sharkopath posted:

Yeah, that's describing blackface pretty much, imagine that in live action. If it was a chapter of people who were just of african descent for cultural and logistical reasons that's less visually arresting, its what the White Scars are. Honestly that's what I'd do anyways probably, if I was in charge, and the fact instead they just keep running with the caucasian guys with coal black skin in official art is kinda funny to me.

The White Scars are Mongols. You can tell by the ranks, names, gimmick, etc.

# ? Dec 21, 2022 23:58

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

Arquinsiel posted:

The White Scars are Mongols. You can tell by the ranks, names, gimmick, etc.

The white scars are a chapter of people of mostly asian descent, for cultural and logistical reasons, is what I meant. Home worlds are almost all steppe planets and a desire to recruit people used to fast paced mounted warfare and that would be easy to integrate into the existing culture of the chapter. You could just do the salamanders that way too and have them just be black guys.

Especially since GW has been making a concerted effort to showcase black marines in other chapters all over the place, the Salamanders feel especially superfluous to me.

I'd probably be less harsh on the Salamanders too if the person who gets to write them almost all the time wasn't a writer I'm not very fond of, versus Wraight fleshing out the white scars in some really excellent books.

Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Dec 22, 2022

# ? Dec 22, 2022 00:44

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

There's no official art of it but Devastation of Baal implies that black marines gifted the chapter's gene seed can inherit the flowing golden locks of Sanguinius and I want to see that.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 00:51

D-Pad: Jun 28, 2006

Improbable Lobster posted:

A star child style plot has been teased in the Dawn of Fire books

More than teased. Got a scene showing the baby on the beach of a paradise planet.

I'm not spoiling that because those books are terrible and it isn't integral to the plot at all, just like a post credit tease. I do think it'll be the main mcguffin moving forward in the series. Very similar to themes in horusian wars and bequin books too.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 01:11

Waroduce: Aug 5, 2008

D-Pad posted:

More than teased. Got a scene showing the baby on the beach of a paradise planet.

I'm not spoiling that because those books are terrible and it isn't integral to the plot at all, just like a post credit tease. I do think it'll be the main mcguffin moving forward in the series. Very similar to themes in horusian wars and bequin books too.

I wanna see this? Possible to post the quote?

# ? Dec 22, 2022 01:13

Inspector_666: Oct 7, 2003; _{benny with the good hair}

D-Pad posted:

More than teased. Got a scene showing the baby on the beach of a paradise planet.

I'm not spoiling that because those books are terrible and it isn't integral to the plot at all, just like a post credit tease. I do think it'll be the main mcguffin moving forward in the series. Very similar to themes in horusian wars and bequin books too.

I've enjoyed the Dawn Of Fire books (haven't/won't read Wolftime) but they definitely aren't fancy and I figure the plot points should become obvious enough that you don't need to spoil them really.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 01:17

D-Pad: Jun 28, 2006

Waroduce posted:

I wanna see this? Possible to post the quote?

Sure, it is in the latest book Wolftime which was absolute dogshit. It could have been sooooo good, about Guilliman and the Space Wolves meeting for the first time and the SW coming to terms with the new imperium and primaris etc. Instead he wrote the Space Wolves as petulant 13 year olds and it was just so bad.

The inquisitor in the story has several brief visions of a beach and a golden child throughout the book. Later on he has a much longer one. I'll go ahead and put these in spoilers although in my opinion it doesn't really spoil anything. Also the formatting didn't translate from the copy and paste from the ebook so I put some random line breaks in it to help but they aren't accurate:

quote:

Inquisitor Leonid Rostov felt warmth on his face, and sand between the toes of his bare feet. A strong wind blew. His eyes were closed, his vision pink and patterned with veins. He tried to open his eyes. But it was not his face. It was not his sight. What are you showing me, Mistress Sov? he thought. She gave no reply. The face of the person he was seeing through moved. Rostov�s consciousness followed it, but not exactly, sliding afterwards as if reacting a half-second too late. But he could feel. His awareness stretched through the being. It was a man, face itching pleasantly with a beard full of salt. He was strong, with muscles that moved easily, and he was content.

He let out a long breath, and opened his eyes. Whiteness at first, before his sight adjusted, showing Rostov a brilliant indigo sky, hardly a cloud to mar it. A beach of sand whose colour approached that of snow stretched away from him, curling around a boulder, and sloping steeply down to an ocean as dark as the sky. Wind-sculpted ridges of sand gave way at the tideline to smooth wetness. The steepness of the incline called abrupt breakers that jumped up from the water before crashing almost immediately down. The air smelled of salt and dimethyl sulphides. A world rich in life. When the man turned to the left, he looked upon a spiny forest, marching almost down to the high water mark. Time jumped. The man was walking. He carried a pole over his shoulder, a cloth bag dangling from the end. The pole was worn smooth by his touch. It was many things to the man, important, as familiar as part of his body. It was a fishing rod, a weapon, a tent pole, an aid on rough ground. In his other hand, the man carried a pair of sandals. He wore a short chiton. His skin was a deep brown.

Bits of the environment leapt at Rostov. Fragments of seaweed on the beach, the trees in the woods, the colour of sea, sky and sun, but there was nothing that gave him a clue where he could be. The surf pounded. The sun was hot. Another jump. The man rounded a boulder. The shore bent back into a bay three-quarters closed by a spine of rock. The little island dipped under the water, becoming a reef, leaving only a narrow channel, perhaps a dozen feet across. A perfect natural harbour. Outside the bay, the sea was stirred up into choppy whitecaps by the wind, and crashed on the beach over and over, but in the bay the water was green and still, and a flotilla of canoes rode wavelets placidly. In a clearing on the hill, a group of houses occupied the rocky ground, well out of the way of the worst storm tides. Wood and leaves on stilted platforms; undistinctive. He could have been looking at any one of a hundred thousand worlds. Then he heard the bell-like voices of children at play, laughter and shrieks broken up by the wind, always returning. This was the world he had seen before. The man�s stride picked up pace, moving directly to the houses. A few men working on nets at the shore waved at him and called out, and he waved back, answering their hails with their names. Their dialect was far from standard Gothic, unintelligible.

The sand gave way to warm rock. The man climbed stairs smoothed by generations of feet, that curled up through the houses. The village was small, a dozen shacks. The man stopped at the last. He put down his sandals with others on grass matting, took down his pole, opened the sack, took out a carved wooden animal, and put the rest neatly aside. He climbed a rope ladder onto the hut�s veranda, then pushed back another mat serving as a door, and went inside. The house was very dark after the blaze of the sun. It seemed larger inside than it had from outside. There were numerous bedrolls rolled up by the wall, clearing the room for the needs of the day, but one was out, and occupied. There was a woman, sleeping. There was a baby close by, a bundle on the floor, small hands twitching in its dreams. A baby, but so much more. The man moved forward. Contact was broken.

Then later on the main chaos dude, the hand of abaddon has a similar vision:

quote:

Tenebrus floated upwards over the bridge to the centre of the relay. Visions flooded into him from the minds of the astropaths being consumed by his shades. He saw pleas of help from dying worlds. He felt the regret and misery of people drained by their toils. He felt the pride of others that they served their god. Fragments of messages from a lost fleet. The rantings of a corrupted astropath on a world fallen to Chaos. Refugees calling for assistance that would never come. He saw a child, a man, a golden figure, a seated warlord writhing in pain. This last was different. This was not a message or a guilty emotion.

He zeroed in on it, pushing aside all the thought forms and jumbled feelings of the dying psykers. There were strata to the suffering here, horrors accreted round the grit of existence, the layers in the blackest of pearls, but as he pushed through them, he glimpsed a beach where the sun shone, bright and innocent. He saw it for what it was: true clairvoyance, not allegorical thought or a trick of the warp.

As he immersed himself in the echoes of Mistress Sov�s great revelation, he could feel the ocean breeze. He could smell the salt. It was a world, untouched by the warp or by the war. But where? That, he could not discern. There was a flash, a man, a woman, a village, and wrapped in a blanket, no idea of its importance, the child. A stab of pain felt at several removes chased the vision away. The astropaths were failing by the dozen. He heard their death screams. He saw the pillars of their soul-light spiking from their bodies. The warp was pressing in. Each fleeing soul had so much power that the fabric of reality was eroding as they passed from one reality to the next. Danger approached. �Time to go,� he said, and descended to Tharador Yheng�s side. �I have learned all I can here.� �Did you find the location of the child?� �Regrettably, I did not,� said Tenebrus.

The hand is specifically trying to find the location of the star child throughout the book. Mentions are made as well that visions of this star child have been spreading through the imperium and often in conjunction with a golden figure rising off a throne. There are somewhat similar goings on in The Horusian Wars series, which is very good and I recommend.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 06:04

Inspector_666: Oct 7, 2003; _{benny with the good hair}

Those bits are from Throne Of Light, aren't they?

# ? Dec 22, 2022 06:41

D-Pad: Jun 28, 2006

Inspector_666 posted:

Those bits are from Throne Of Light, aren't they?

Yes. I am really hoping now that SoT is wrapping up that the good authors can start writing for Dawn of Fire. BL seems intent on continuing it as one of their big series but so far everything has been terrible to meh. It's got a cool overarching plot and assuming they continue with the star child stuff, which I believe they will, could lead to big changes in the setting so they really need to bring some heavier hitters in on it.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 08:05

Deptfordx: Dec 23, 2013

Agreed on those Dawn of Fire books, at their best they're just OK, and the overall quality has been mediocre.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 09:56

PupsOfWar: Dec 6, 2013

Sharkopath posted:

You could just do the salamanders that way too and have them just be black guys.

Especially since GW has been making a concerted effort to showcase black marines in other chapters all over the place, the Salamanders feel especially superfluous to me.

This is why the Celestial Lions were a decent idea, to have a chapter that's just more straightforwardly black and african-inspired without the...problematic premises of Salamanders gene-seed.

Trouble being that their gimmick is that they're perpetually turbofucked and on the edge of extinction (Spears 2 when, ADB??)

# ? Dec 22, 2022 16:05

Azubah: Jun 5, 2007

Has he said there's going to be another one? It was a really cool story and I liked how low the stakes were compared to other 40k fiction.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 16:27

D-Pad: Jun 28, 2006

Azubah posted:

Has he said there's going to be another one? It was a really cool story and I liked how low the stakes were compared to other 40k fiction.

Yes he has. I believe he has even talked about actively working on it.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 19:26

Z the IVth: Jan 28, 2009; The trouble with your "expendable machines"; Fun Shoe

Sharkopath posted:

There's no official art of it but Devastation of Baal implies that black marines gifted the chapter's gene seed can inherit the flowing golden locks of Sanguinius and I want to see that.

It's quite variable - some of the gene seeds are described as making the marines look very much like their Primarch and Sangy's is one of them along with (surprise surprise) Alpha Legion.

It probably turns them all into Michaelangelo statue lookalikes with flowing hair and the melanochrome just changes their skin colour.

PupsOfWar posted:

This is why the Celestial Lions were a decent idea, to have a chapter that's just more straightforwardly black and african-inspired without the...problematic premises of Salamanders gene-seed.

Trouble being that their gimmick is that they're perpetually turbofucked and on the edge of extinction (Spears 2 when, ADB??)

Just like in real life the SPACE-CIA can't stop loving them over.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 19:35

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Sharkopath posted:

Yeah, that's describing blackface pretty much, imagine that in live action. If it was a chapter of people who were just of african descent for cultural and logistical reasons that's less visually arresting, its what the White Scars are. Honestly that's what I'd do anyways probably, if I was in charge, and the fact instead they just keep running with the caucasian guys with coal black skin in official art is kinda funny to me.

Deathwatch episode, have this guy team up with a Raven Guard played by an albino African actor.

Open any American newspaper ~~the morning after~~ five minutes after the episode ends and enjoy the hilarious takes :cheers:

# ? Dec 22, 2022 20:18

Brendan Rodgers: Jun 11, 2014

If the Emperor did come back, wouldn't he see that there is a new path now? The webway thing didn't work out. But the Necrons have pocket dimensions, and warpless FTL, and all the blackstone stuff which doesn't have to completely gently caress up souls, it existed in places like Cadia for millions of years, it could even be used to amplify human psychic power when the time is right. Just knowing it is possible is a huge step towards implementing it. He could even make another Dark Bargain. He does have the Void Dragon, and The Silent King seems...not reasonable, but willing to talk (through intermediaries).

Brendan Rodgers fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Dec 22, 2022

# ? Dec 22, 2022 20:42

wiegieman: Apr 22, 2010; Royalty is a continuous cutting motion

Brendan Rodgers posted:

If the Emperor did come back, wouldn't he see that there is a new path now? The webway thing didn't work out. But the Necrons have pocket dimensions, and warpless FTL, and all the blackstone stuff which doesn't have to completely gently caress up souls, it existed in places like Cadia for millions of years, it could even be used to amplify human psychic power when the time is right. Just knowing it is possible is a huge step towards implementing it. He could even make another Dark Bargain. He does have the Void Dragon, and The Silent King seems...not reasonable, but willing to talk (through intermediaries).

Well, we still don't know how Pandemonium came about. Maybe it's just the logical extension of the webway project.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 20:56

D-Pad: Jun 28, 2006

wiegieman posted:

Well, we still don't know how Pandemonium came about. Maybe it's just the logical extension of the webway project.

This is my theory. Whether it was a specific command to Valdor before being interred on the throne or Valdor thought it up himself as a way to continue the emperor's plan in his absence the city seems to be a 2.0 attempt at the emperor's original plan. Within the warp but in a calm pocket, filled with cloned blanks, upgraded astartes, and probably custodes as well. If Valdor knows or believes the emperor is coming back in some form why not spend the intervening 10k years working on this and preparing the way.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 21:31

Kharan: Jun 28, 2005; Ned is dead

double post

Kharan fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Dec 23, 2022

# ? Dec 22, 2022 22:01

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

Zenobi's arc fuckin owned.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 22:07

Chemtrailologist: Jul 8, 2007

Kharan posted:

Feels weird returning to Horus Heresy after like a 15 year pause, but I wanted closure with the Siege of Terra, even if it was Game of Thrones -kind of closure. Think the last one I read was The First Heretic.

Solar War felt very mediocre, Mersadies storyline was a plodding affair, not totally salvaged by the twist. And for the love of Emperor, if you write about spaceships, try to learn about the conservation of momentum. Or am I wrong and the silly physics are somehow justified? Anyway, could've been much more.

First Wall was kind of ok. The civilian / faith storyline was better this time, even though the climax with the Nurgle daemon and Malcador etc felt unearned. Bolter porn was kind of ok, but Dorn felt like a 1-dimensional dickhead and it was a real letdown not having an actual Dorn vs Perturabo confrontation.

I really liked Zenobi's storyline, I'd actually figured all of them freezing to death on the journey to the Palace. For the Warmaster!

Now I'm about halfway through Saturnine and Abnett's prose is much better. He sometimes huffs his own farts too much but at least it feels like an actual siege for the first time. Dorn is an actual character here and it's lovely seeing the other Primarchs in action.

From what I've read, I'll read Echoes of Eternity next, then the double ending and then I'm done with 40k.

Warhawk is worth a read. It written by Chris Wraight who's always good.

Skip Mortis.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 22:37

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Kharan posted:

Feels weird returning to Horus Heresy after like a 15 year pause, but I wanted closure with the Siege of Terra, even if it was Game of Thrones -kind of closure. Think the last one I read was The First Heretic.

Solar War felt very mediocre, Mersadies storyline was a plodding affair, not totally salvaged by the twist. And for the love of Emperor, if you write about spaceships, try to learn about the conservation of momentum. Or am I wrong and the silly physics are somehow justified? Anyway, could've been much more.

First Wall was kind of ok. The civilian / faith storyline was better this time, even though the climax with the Nurgle daemon and Malcador etc felt unearned. Bolter porn was kind of ok, but Dorn felt like a 1-dimensional dickhead and it was a real letdown not having an actual Dorn vs Perturabo confrontation.

I really liked Zenobi's storyline, I'd actually figured all of them freezing to death on the journey to the Palace. For the Warmaster!

Now I'm about halfway through Saturnine and Abnett's prose is much better. He sometimes huffs his own farts too much but at least it feels like an actual siege for the first time. Dorn is an actual character here and it's lovely seeing the other Primarchs in action.

From what I've read, I'll read Echoes of Eternity next, then the double ending and then I'm done with 40k.

Chemtrailologist posted:

Warhawk is worth a read. It written by Chris Wraight who's always good.

Skip Mortis.

eternity gate is solid too. it kinda meanders alot but the ending is fun while kinda dumb.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 22:46

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

I've read Echoes again recently. It has good parts but it's dragged down with too much chaff and the pacing suffers for it.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 22:51

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

I've been going through the horua heresy in audiobook form to refresh myself after reading a smattering of random ones over the years. Maybe I'll do a little writeup about which ones i liked and disliked and why when I'm done.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 23:01

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Kharan posted:

Solar War felt very mediocre, Mersadies storyline was a plodding affair, not totally salvaged by the twist. And for the love of Emperor, if you write about spaceships, try to learn about the conservation of momentum. Or am I wrong and the silly physics are somehow justified? Anyway, could've been much more.

There probably is some obscure lore reason for it in a FFG book from 1987 but the reality is almost all sci-fi operates on Star Wars rules so spaceships act like WW2 ships. Silly sure, but playing Battlefleet Gothic and watching a space church run in hard to unleash a full broadside will always own, so I'm okay with it.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 23:22

Calax: Oct 5, 2011

Brendan Rodgers posted:

If the Emperor did come back, wouldn't he see that there is a new path now? The webway thing didn't work out. But the Necrons have pocket dimensions, and warpless FTL, and all the blackstone stuff which doesn't have to completely gently caress up souls, it existed in places like Cadia for millions of years, it could even be used to amplify human psychic power when the time is right. Just knowing it is possible is a huge step towards implementing it. He could even make another Dark Bargain. He does have the Void Dragon, and The Silent King seems...not reasonable, but willing to talk (through intermediaries).

I think the suggestions have been that the breaking of the Eye's been waking him up, and that interview Abnett gave to Ars Technica ( https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/05/unsolved-mysteries-of-the-warhammer-40k-universe-with-loremaster-dan-abnett/ ) Suggests that at this point he has just accepted and is pushing the idea he's a Warp God for Humanity.

That's also where he discussed the idea that the Emperor is stuck. His body might be trying to regenerate, but at the same the Throne is destroying that regeneration.

# ? Dec 22, 2022 23:28

FPyat: Jan 17, 2020

Was The Lost and Damned totally forgettable or did you avoid reading it?

# ? Dec 22, 2022 23:28

AndyElusive: Jan 7, 2007

If anyone wants to watch Angels of Death: Origins for free, it's available and quite good IMHO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99tOSmaNSJg

# ? Dec 23, 2022 01:45

War and Pieces: Apr 24, 2022; DID NOT VOTE FOR FETTERMAN

Roller Coast Guard posted:

Old old old canon is that the Imperial Fists had Dorn's body but the hands were missing.

If Catholic saints can have multiple relics adding up to more than one head and two hands well so can Primarchs

# ? Dec 23, 2022 02:42

Filthy Hans: Jun 27, 2008; by Fluffdaddy
(and can't post for 10 years!)

Deptfordx posted:

Ehhhhhh. isn't skintone too dark for real-life a literal description of Blackface. In fact wasn't charcoal commonly used as makeup for doing that.

That doesn't really seem much of an improvement.

Combining with the demonic red eyes doesn't help the look either.

Let's face it, if they were starting 40k today, the Salamanders would be completely different. No way in hell they'd go with the current look.

the Salamanders melanin trait is ripe for a retcon

maybe have their skin go scaly *like a salamander* in adverse conditions as a chapter mutation

# ? Dec 23, 2022 08:12

Gravitas Shortfall: Jul 17, 2007; Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.

Filthy Hans posted:

the Salamanders melanin trait is ripe for a retcon

maybe have their skin go scaly *like a salamander* in adverse conditions as a chapter mutation

The only way you could do Salamanders in live action is to start with an ethnically diverse chapter, and then introduce them, while making sure their skin tone was actually inhuman. That way the viewer understands that black space marines aren't unusual, but these guys? These guys are weird

EDIT: actually, start with the Raven Guard after the "normal" chapter and have them all corpse pale to introduce the idea that sometimes poo poo goes wrong with the geneseed

Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Dec 23, 2022

# ? Dec 23, 2022 09:32

Telsa Cola: Aug 19, 2011; No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

How bout instead of reconning the fact they are black we just retcon the really lovely judgment call to have black face marines popping up more frequently in the official art and go with the elegant solution of being black and getting Salamander Geneseed makes you really loving dark and being white and getting the geneseed means you tan really loving well but not blackface.

Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Dec 23, 2022

# ? Dec 23, 2022 09:48

Deptfordx: Dec 23, 2013

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

The only way you could do Salamanders in live action is to start with an ethnically diverse chapter, and then introduce them, while making sure their skin tone was actually inhuman. That way the viewer understands that black space marines aren't unusual, but these guys? These guys are weird

The problem with live action is you're presumably going to have caucasian actors as part of the Salamanders in this scenario, and no way in hell are they going to agree to do what is still really going to look like donning blackface.

# ? Dec 23, 2022 09:52

notaspy: Mar 22, 2009

Deptfordx posted:

The problem with live action is you're presumably going to have caucasian actors as part of the Salamanders in this scenario, and no way in hell are they going to agree to do what is still really going to look like donning blackface.

Digital black face?

# ? Dec 23, 2022 10:02

Gravitas Shortfall: Jul 17, 2007; Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.

Deptfordx posted:

The problem with live action is you're presumably going to have caucasian actors as part of the Salamanders in this scenario, and no way in hell are they going to agree to do what is still really going to look like donning blackface.

Yeah, that's what I meant about being careful to make it inhuman rather than just black. It should be darker shades of green imo. More Star Trek Alien than The Jazz Singer.

# ? Dec 23, 2022 10:02

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 20:18

Deptfordx: Dec 23, 2013

notaspy posted:

Digital black face?

'Well yes, I did agreed to do blackface, but it wasn't real blackface, it was digital!'.

Lol, no. That's not happening either.

# ? Dec 23, 2022 10:36

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