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 NYT investigated the last moments of a number of Ukrainians who were slain by Russian forces in Bucha. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/12/21/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-massacre-victims.html
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Dec 22, 2022 02:28
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cinci zoo sniper posted:
Dear god that's difficult to get through.
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Dec 22, 2022 02:32
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Would've been perfect if the flag unfurled the correct way. All I can make out it is "to the house of representatives of the United States" but maybe that's all it really says in English. Had a little chuckle about putting words in their mouth at the end when the US flag gift was presented, "Done worry Volodymyr, we will pack it up for your trip." and Zelensky replying, "I don't have time, I will take it with me now." before picking it up and walking it out. What a great speech and great delivery, especially for someone speaking in a non native tongue. I'm also glad the WaPo stream stopped showing Gaetz/Boebert/Steube or whoever about halfway through.
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Dec 22, 2022 02:35
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Yeah for such a choreographed event it got kind of awkward there at the end. Just a reminder that all of these larger-than-life figures are human, too, and sometimes need to figure out how to get off the stage on the fly.
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Dec 22, 2022 02:43
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https://twitter.com/Lum_/status/1605739156809859073quote:TUCKER CARLSON (HOST): If you were a Republican office-holder and Zelensky came to Washington, maybe you would, for a moment, ask him about his current and ongoing war against Christianity in Ukraine. Especially if you were, say, Mitch McConnell or John Cornyn and a lot of your own voters go to church on Sunday. They might care about that issue.
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Dec 22, 2022 03:16
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hanukkah sameach president Zelenskiy
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Dec 22, 2022 03:19
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I see that flag and all I can think of is when everyone at the office signs the card for someone's retirement party.
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Dec 22, 2022 03:35
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That flag is from the frontline yesterday, I believe. Zelenskyy brought it.
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Dec 22, 2022 03:44
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mutata posted:That flag is from the frontline yesterday, I believe. Zelenskyy brought it. Oh, I see the that the writing on it isn't in English. I just saw that flag and it just reminded me of a retirement party going--away card at first glance.
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Dec 22, 2022 03:59
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Charliegrs posted:The tank rounds and Grad rockets are interesting. I'm assuming the tank rounds are for the Soviet/Russian tanks the Ukrainians use and Grads are a Russian designed system as well. I don't think the US produces any of these? I wonder where they are getting them from. 125mm tank rounds are for Soviet tank guns as used in the T-64, -72, and -80, western tank guns come in 105, 120, and 130mm only
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Dec 22, 2022 04:12
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Between this and MTG's comments about Zelenskyy being a "shadow president" working in the globalist deep state they might as well be using triple parantheses for him, yeesh.
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Dec 22, 2022 04:12
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Youth Decay posted:Between this and MTG's comments about Zelenskyy being a "shadow president" working in the globalist deep state they might as well be using triple parantheses for him, yeesh. Given that he's Jewish, I'm surprised they aren't.
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Dec 22, 2022 04:30
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Meanwhile, Rogozin is having a bad evening: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-shelling-attack-injures-two-top-pro-russia-officials-donetsk-agencies-2022-12-22/ ”Dec 21 (Reuters) - A former Russian deputy prime minister and a pro-Moscow official were injured when Ukrainian forces shelled the eastern city of Donetsk on Wednesday, Russian news agencies said. Donetsk, controlled by pro-Moscow troops, is in the industrial Donbas region, epicentre of recent bitter fighting between Russia and Ukraine. One of the injured men was Dmitry Rogozin, a former Russian deputy prime minister who is giving military advice to two occupied regions of Ukraine that Moscow claims as its own, an aide told Tass news agency, his life was not in danger.
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Dec 22, 2022 04:55
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Wonder how long it'll be until MTG is chanting "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US" and "RUSSIA IS OUR FRIEND" at a rally somewhere.
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Dec 22, 2022 05:18
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LOL, Pelosi introduced Zelenskiy as "The President of The Ukraine."
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Dec 22, 2022 06:38
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Lum_ posted:https://twitter.com/Lum_/status/1605739156809859073 I wonder if anybody over there is willing to name the denomination in question.
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Dec 22, 2022 06:57
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Just like the USA is exporting surplus HARMs and Patriot batteries, Tucker Carlson is exporting refurbished reactionary memes from years past. Maybe next year they will roll out "Ukraine refuses to back the blue."
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Dec 22, 2022 07:54
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Ardeem posted:I wonder if anybody over there is willing to name the denomination in question. Considering their target audience doesn't believe Eastern Orthodox of any variety are real Christians, very doubtful indeed. He also angrily called Zelensky a "strip club manager", repeatedly, because he commited the cardinal sin of not wearing a suit to his Congressional appearance. Anyway if you missed it it'll be on Rossiya-1 in a few hours! Lum_ fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Dec 22, 2022 |
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Dec 22, 2022 08:18
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Star Man posted:Oh, I see the that the writing on it isn't in English. I just saw that flag and it just reminded me of a retirement party going--away card at first glance. It's not helping that they're holding it back to front and the text is mirrored as a result. Still, calling the flag of de defenders of Bakhmut an office going away card is pretty lol. mllaneza posted:LOL, Pelosi introduced Zelenskiy as "The President of The Ukraine." Old people just can't help themselves, they've been calling it The Ukraine for most of their life. It's not intentional, usually. I still cringe when I hear someone say it though. It's gotten better but a lot of the older western geopolitics experts and such still say it in interviews sometimes.
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Dec 22, 2022 08:34
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mllaneza posted:LOL, Pelosi introduced Zelenskiy as "The President of The Ukraine." I'd assume it's a force of habit, since both "United States of America" and "Ukraine" start with U. And you would "Welcome the President of the United States of America". Same as "welcome The President of The Ukrainian Republic" if you wouldm like to be pedantic.
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Dec 22, 2022 10:10
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Kikas posted:I'd assume it's a force of habit, since both "United States of America" and "Ukraine" start with U. And you would "Welcome the President of the United States of America". Same as "welcome The President of The Ukrainian Republic" if you wouldm like to be pedantic. I'm pretty sure Ukraine is just Ukraine and not the Ukrainian Republic
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Dec 22, 2022 11:17
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nutri_void posted:I'm pretty sure Ukraine is just Ukraine and not the Ukrainian Republic I bet you're right, but since I've heard someone use "The Republic of Poland" I just assume that these mishaps happen.
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Dec 22, 2022 11:20
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Ardeem posted:I wonder if anybody over there is willing to name the denomination in question. I also wonder now how big the Orthodox Church of Ukraine actually is compared to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, they both claim the same churches and monastaries
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Dec 22, 2022 12:11
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FishBulbia posted:I also wonder now how big the Orthodox Church of Ukraine actually is compared to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, they both claim the same churches and monastaries I think technically those belong to the state/people and are given for use to the majority group in the given community (which makes your question even more relevant). The practical question may actually be the low-level priests.
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Dec 22, 2022 13:12
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mllaneza posted:LOL, Pelosi introduced Zelenskiy as "The President of The Ukraine." She also dicked up the pronunciation of his first name when introducing him.
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Dec 22, 2022 13:16
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spankmeister posted:Old people just can't help themselves, they've been calling it The Ukraine for most of their life. It's not intentional, usually. I still cringe when I hear someone say it though. It's gotten better but a lot of the older western geopolitics experts and such still say it in interviews sometimes. FishBulbia posted:I also wonder now how big the Orthodox Church of Ukraine actually is compared to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, they both claim the same churches and monastaries
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Dec 22, 2022 16:14
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mobby_6kl posted:
Was one of those run by Rome? Anyway, looks like Zelensky is meeting with Duda. Makes sense given importance of Poland... and the geography of his trip to Washington.
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Dec 22, 2022 16:17
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Kikas posted:I bet you're right, but since I've heard someone use "The Republic of Poland" I just assume that these mishaps happen. That’s because Poland officially is “the Republic of Poland” in English, whereas Ukraine officially is “Ukraine”.
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Dec 22, 2022 16:21
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1st AD posted:Patriot batteries There’s really no such thing as an excess Patriot battery. One of the reasons the decision to give Ukraine one Patriot battery was a big deal.
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Dec 22, 2022 16:43
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Meanwhile the Admiral Kuznetsov is eager to get back to spewing smoke everywhere and caught fire again. https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1605861526786768896
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Dec 22, 2022 16:49
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mmkay posted:Meanwhile the Admiral Kuznetsov is eager to get back to spewing smoke everywhere and caught fire again. 🎵🔥🔥🔥🎶 Oh, the Kuznetsov looks so frightful But the fire is so delightful And since Russians just won't learn Let it burn, let it burn, let it burn Man, it doesn't show signs of stopping And I've brought me some corn for popping Now it's way down in the drink Let it sink, let it sink, let it sink
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Dec 22, 2022 17:08
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Nenonen posted:🎵🔥🔥🔥🎶 Sadly its in a dock so it can't really SINK, but who knows how bad the fire gets it could always be cored out from the damage.
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Dec 22, 2022 18:29
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AtomikKrab posted:Sadly its in a dock so it can't really SINK, but who knows how bad the fire gets it could always be cored out from the damage. It already sank one dry dock, there’s no reason it can’t try again!
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Dec 22, 2022 18:31
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mlmp08 posted:There’s really no such thing as an excess Patriot battery. One of the reasons the decision to give Ukraine one Patriot battery was a big deal. How does a Patriot compare to an S-300? I heard patriot batteries are basically a science project. They pay out huge enlistment bonuses if you want to work in them in the US Army so that tells me it's a really lovely job. The actual training process is apparently like a post secondary degree program even if you do it full time. You also have routine training drills and inspections just to stay current on the system. You've got phone book style manuals you have to follow to the letter and if you miss something you start all over again and are stuck on base for the whole night with no sleep until its done right. Then there's the cost of running it and using up the missiles for low value targets with high value impact (kamikaze drones) and I wonder if there's a better way to do this. To me what's happening right now is a campaign reminiscent of the London Blitz in WW2. Only now you have to contend with missiles and small aircraft that barely show up on radar. I'd hate to be a Ukrainian patriot operator detecting an Iranian drone about to blow up an apartment block and having to forgo firing a missile because I'm waiting for a Kalibr missile heading to a power plant or transformer station.
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Dec 22, 2022 18:35
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mmkay posted:Meanwhile the Admiral Kuznetsov is eager to get back to spewing smoke everywhere and caught fire again. The only thing that piece of poo poo knows how to do properly it set itself on fire 
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Dec 22, 2022 18:44
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Kraftwerk posted:How does a Patriot compare to an S-300? I heard patriot batteries are basically a science project. They pay out huge enlistment bonuses if you want to work in them in the US Army so that tells me it's a really lovely job. The actual training process is apparently like a post secondary degree program even if you do it full time. You also have routine training drills and inspections just to stay current on the system. You've got phone book style manuals you have to follow to the letter and if you miss something you start all over again and are stuck on base for the whole night with no sleep until its done right. They’re used for different purposes and their designs reflect the doctrinal differences between the USA and Russian militaries - not sure a comparison is useful.
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Dec 22, 2022 18:49
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https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...round-briefing/ SDO and SMO brief from 21 December. List of PDA and USAI announced: PDA - drawn from US stocks, usually much faster aside from train-up time. USAI - US goes to indsutry to contract for sourcing. Months to years lead time. https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3252782/185-billion-in-additional-security-assistance-for-ukraine/ Intro then excerpts as I decide. I cut a lot of repeated or reworded question: When will Patriot be operational? How will the JDAM kits be used (ordnance/carrier)? Highlights: -One (1) Patriot Battery will be delivered to Ukraine, drawn from US stocks. There isn't such a thing as "excess" Patriot, so it is a pretty significant announcement on the US end. As for Ukraine, it's one more medium-range SAM battery. It's not clear how much that actually buys you in defending such a wide area and as many critical assets as Ukraine has to contend with, but every bit will help, especially as S-300 interceptor stores run down over time. DOD will not comment on ordnance quantities or where that is coming from, other than existing US stocks. -US expects training Ukrainians on Patriot to take "several months," so I wouldn't expect to see this in operation in Ukraine until spring of 2023, at the absolute earliest. -USAI funding for satellite comms and terminals (might or might not be a response to the StarLink fickleness about offering services to Ukraine for free) -US not commenting on means of JDAM kit employment for OPSEC reasons -For purchase of legacy Soviet / Russian caliber ammunition (122mm artillery, 152mm artillery, 122mm Grad rockets, 125mm tank rounds), comments sound like it will leverage (primarily?) already produced rounds from around the world to be shipped to Ukraine on the US's dime. It could also include new production, not clear. -Is there some ability to tie together all the US and legacy systems? Nope, people are looking into that, but anything resembling interoperability / integration will likely be procedural and tactics / agreements-based, not a technical solution in the mid to longer term. -The Ukrainian Patriot battery will not be linked into any NATO systems or communications. It is a battery for Ukraine to operate, on their own. quote:SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL: Good afternoon, everyone. I'd like to start by just recognizing where we are in this war. We're in over 300 days after Russia launched this war to try to stamp out Ukraine's existence as a free nation. And at this moment, we are welcoming President Zelenskyy to Washington, D.C., a sign of Ukraine's determination, its spirit, its resolve, and an opportunity for us to be able to reinforce our support for Ukraine during President Zelenskyy's visit. 1st AD posted:They’re used for different purposes and their designs reflect the doctrinal differences between the USA and Russian militaries - not sure a comparison is useful. I think it's fair to compare them in general, as long as someone recognizes that while S-300 was fielded in the late 70s and 80s (Patriot was fielded in the 80s), Patriot has gone through constant evolutionary upgrades, and Ukraine still has 80s-era S-300. Their mission sets are pretty similar, and their mobility is pretty similar.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:07
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Kraftwerk posted:Then there's the cost of running it and using up the missiles for low value targets with high value impact (kamikaze drones) and I wonder if there's a better way to do this. To me what's happening right now is a campaign reminiscent of the London Blitz in WW2. Only now you have to contend with missiles and small aircraft that barely show up on radar. I'd hate to be a Ukrainian patriot operator detecting an Iranian drone about to blow up an apartment block and having to forgo firing a missile because I'm waiting for a Kalibr missile heading to a power plant or transformer station. The Patriots being availability for anti-Kalibr duty opens up other systems for the kamikaze drones though. Until Ukraine ends up running out of ammo for their other systems, I really doubt they'd retire them.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:10
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mlmp08 posted:
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Dec 22, 2022 19:21
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Zelensky's trip to DC is well timed. General support for Ukraine within the US population is gradually slipping from summer highs. Whether it is due to low voter attention span on foreign affairs that are not immediately impacting the populace, inflation and cost of living issues rising to the forefront, or the Tucker Carlson effect, support for Ukraine within the US especially among Republican and Independent voters is slipping. https://globalaffairs.org/research/public-opinion-survey/growing-us-divide-how-long-support-ukraine This poll was released in early December and https://today.yougov.com/topics/international/articles-reports/2022/12/21/americans-support-giving-weapons-ukraine this was released today. Ex. When given the option of yes/no/not sure, more Republicans are in favour if turning off the money tap than are for maintaining it. Independents broadly seem uneducated on the topic with 1/3rd not sure but only about an equal number supporting continued funding. Democrats remain the most enthusiastic but with a caveat; they are the voters most likely to be scared off with Putin's vague threats of consequences. Support among Democrats for Patriot missle batteries to Ukraine fell by 1/3rd to just 50% after being informed of Russian threats so as silly as Moscow is at times with its rhetoric, it does appear to have some impact. This effect was much less pronounced with Republicans though in that almost none of those who supported the issue flipped when informed of Russian threats. If you are a conservative who supports Ukraine, Putin isn't scaring them off of it. More and more twitter sentiment also follows this trend as my feed leans more conservative than most here I suspect. Shapiro released a very 'IR realist' tweet that echo'd my earlier post accurately pointing out that Ukrainian interests are not America interests and that the two shouldn't be confused with each other. That at some point, the US needs to be able to be the bad guy should support for Ukraine no longer run in parallel with good US foreign policy. https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1605899823491620866?s=20&t=0vROBrV59GwB5T29eqIGQg Ukraine might want to gamble at some point next summer and get as much as they can. Mearshiemier is likely to be proven correct in the long term. Ukraine is something the Russian state will suffer extreme deprivation and hardship to control while it simply isn't a core interest for the US. Ergo support can be fickle and evaporate very quickly. I think the Ukrainians are very lucky the US elections played out the way they did. Shapiro points out Biden is unlikely to be the bad guy in this scenario of pushing the Ukrainians towards a peace they don't want and his party retains control at least one of the Congressional bodies.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:25
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