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Batterypowered7 posted:https://articles.starcitygames.com/magic-the-gathering/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines-the-good-and-the-bad/ God, shut up, Sheldon. Elesh Norn, MoM is a better Panharmonicon stapled to a Torpor Orb. Except in the most easily removed permanent type. That's it, that's the card. Nobody is making GBS threads themselves over Panharmonicon or Torpor Orb. Hell, neither of those even see much play (according to EDHrec, Panharmonicon shows up in 4% of decks and Torpor Orb a whopping 1%-- and you'd think as colorless artifacts they'd be used way more if they were that great). I think the new Elesh Norn is good and will see some play as a commander (I certainly want to give it a try!), but that's more in a cEDH space where ETBs are generally pretty drastic, so having something that doubles mine and stops opponents is actually pretty sweet. But she's... not that strong of a stax card? The kind of reaction Sheldon is having is as if they made some kinda Praetor with a Seedborn Muse effect for you and a Stasis effect for your opponents, and it's just not that at all. She needs to be built around to be truly effective. You need a deck that is designed to have a bunch of ETBs that are worth doubling, and you need to be in a meta where stopping ETBs is going to be worth anything (and in the vast majority of cases (read: casual EDH), it's not a big deal). In cEDH, however, she shuts off Dockside Extortionist, Thassa's Oracle, Imperial Recruiter, Recruiter of the Guard, Spellseeker, Gilded Drake, Animate Dead, Godo, Tatyova, Inalla, Rocco, and more. Which is pretty nice. I dunno if she really has cEDH legs, but I'd like to see. Sheldon's just wringing his hands over absolutely loving nothing here, and getting people who haven't learned how to use removal all worried over something that isn't going to be a problem for most people. Wanna know a card far more backbreaking than Elesh Norn that no one's freaking out about? Archon of Emeria. That card is a loving chef's kiss of a stax piece. Mana denial and spell denial all in one sweet piece of BIRD LAW. Khanstant posted:I don't hate him or get the general animosity some people have towards him. He doesn't seem wrong about this card if nothing else He's incredibly wrong about it and he needs to quit huffing his own farts.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:48
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Framboise posted:
* picture of a Magic player trying to choose between putting a tenth three-mana ramp spell/artifact or a single piece of interaction in their deck *
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Dec 22, 2022 19:52
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Batterypowered7 posted:* picture of a Magic player trying to choose between putting a tenth three-mana ramp spell/artifact or a single piece of interaction in their deck * This person has chosen to cut yet another land.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:55
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Framboise posted:The kind of reaction Sheldon is having is as if they made some kinda Praetor with a Seedborn Muse effect for you and a Stasis effect for your opponents, and it's just not that at all. This is the man who thinks Prophet of Kruphix is one of the ten most dangerous cards in Magic. If they actually printed a Seedborn Muse/Stasis praetor, I'd expect Sheldon's reaction to be to poo poo his pants and die of an aneurysm.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:55
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I can't imagine casting the new Elesh Norn without some form of protection either in hand or on the board because in the pods I play in because I wouldn't untap with her still around. But that's a worst-case scenario, she's not even that big of a problem if you're not in an ETB-heavy environment, and for her to really benefit you, you have to build around her but also not have her as the commander. I dunno, I think this dude's overreacting for a lot of reasons. Like she dies to almost any removal spell.
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Dec 22, 2022 20:25
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I watched the Game Knights episode where they all played with praetors and it seemed like I personally wouldn't enjoy it at all. All praetors have feel bad abilities that make for unfun and oppressive casual games imo but it definitely would depend on your playgroup of course.
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Dec 22, 2022 21:56
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Simone Poodoin posted:I watched the Game Knights episode where they all played with praetors and it seemed like I personally wouldn't enjoy it at all. Urabrask continues to be the worst of the five.
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Dec 22, 2022 21:59
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Simone Poodoin posted:I watched the Game Knights episode where they all played with praetors and it seemed like I personally wouldn't enjoy it at all. Was just about to post this. Yeah that's what I figured was going to happen, that new Elsh Norn foil looks cool though.
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Dec 22, 2022 22:58
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Honestly I think Sheoldred and Vorinclex are both worse (in the feelbad unfun sense) than MoM so yeah I don't get what the fuss is about.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:02
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look at me im the guy who was ok with dockside and ragavan but THIS, this is where i cross the line, and by line i mean im doing nothing about it as well.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:06
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Lol, I like what The Magic Historian says about Sheldon and the Rules Committee around the 2:15 mark https://youtu.be/RLRUEYYhRwU
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Dec 22, 2022 23:09
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make me the sole RC rule maker. i will ban all the cards.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:25
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Dizz posted:make me the sole RC rule maker. i will ban all the cards. Ban the top 75 most played card in every color
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Dec 22, 2022 23:29
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Ban Sol Ring
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Dec 22, 2022 23:32
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Batterypowered7 posted:Ban the top 75 most played card in every color Am I the only one who would love this? I haven't even built that many decks and the number of cards that feel like they just go into anything by default because they're clearly the best thing at common things everyone wants to do is too high. Some kind of freaks n geeks format, no cool cards.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:39
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Khanstant posted:Am I the only one who would love this? I haven't even built that many decks and the number of cards that feel like they just go into anything by default because they're clearly the best thing at common things everyone wants to do is too high. Some kind of freaks n geeks format, no cool cards. If you have a steady playgroup, you could always suggest it as a way to switch things up. I like poo poo like "choose two blocks and a core set, nobody's sets can overlap".
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Dec 22, 2022 23:42
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Opposition agent is fine. Elesh Norn is not.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:50
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Batterypowered7 posted:If you have a steady playgroup, you could always suggest it as a way to switch things up. I like poo poo like "choose two blocks and a core set, nobody's sets can overlap". Years ago, my store had an EDH league going with, I thought, a fun concept: every time someone won a pod, everyone else in the pod picked a card from their deck, and those cards were banned from the league starting the following week. Decklists weren't provided, so the focus was on cards that actually got played, and then you had to decide if a card you played that was better in their deck should be banned, etc. The first couple weeks were cool, then the biggest grognards said they felt "targeted for winning" and left the league, but showed up on EDH night anyway and played their own games while making snarky comments about "sure am glad I can play this card tonight!" So the end result was the league just collapsing. loving Magic players.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:53
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pseudanonymous posted:Opposition agent is fine. Elesh Norn is not. Shut your mouth before I lose one of my few truly good Rogues.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:53
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disaster pastor posted:Years ago, my store had an EDH league going with, I thought, a fun concept: every time someone won a pod, everyone else in the pod picked a card from their deck, and those cards were banned from the league starting the following week. Decklists weren't provided, so the focus was on cards that actually got played, and then you had to decide if a card you played that was better in their deck should be banned, etc. Why do Magic players ruin everything? This sounds like a great way to do a league.
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Dec 23, 2022 00:08
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Batterypowered7 posted:If you have a steady playgroup, you could always suggest it as a way to switch things up. I like poo poo like "choose two blocks and a core set, nobody's sets can overlap". that does sound fun, don't if know the group I play with would be interested in some coordinated deckbuilding deal but even as just a personal deckbuilding theme, like, tons of sets I have never even seen a card from before so might be cool to try and make something with some mystery old set. pseudanonymous posted:Opposition agent is fine. Elesh Norn is not. I like this anti-tutor effect but seems like it'd be worse, but better, if it just targeted someone specifically. Thinking of a game I played one opponent had many many tutors because he basically wanted some very specific cards to do exactly one thing and think it would've been fun to stymy that gameplan a little more.
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Dec 23, 2022 00:11
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[quote="Khanstant" post="""] I like this anti-tutor effect but seems like it'd be worse, but better, if it just targeted someone specifically. Thinking of a game I played one opponent had many many tutors because he basically wanted some very specific cards to do exactly one thing and think it would've been fun to stymy that gameplan a little more. [/quote] Stranglehold, Aven mindcensor, ashiok Archivist of Oghma
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Dec 23, 2022 00:14
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banning basic lands. it seems they're a staple that helps decks to win, and they're in 100% of decks.
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Dec 23, 2022 00:16
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Dizz posted:how much did it cost you? $80 after shipping, so like 34 cents a card? I ordered a whole deck, plus a bunch of extras for it so i can mix and match depending on how it plays, then 80 duals (40 for me and 40 for a friend), and then a bunch of expensive staples.
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Dec 23, 2022 00:16
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Dizz posted:banning basic lands. it seems they're a staple that helps decks to win, and they're in 100% of decks. I was actually disappointed when I learned the singleton rule in commander is a complete lie, they don't even expect you to pick different art for each basic land. They shouldn't be banned, they should just follow the rules like everyone else. There are so many sad lands out there that never see play because basic lands are just better. Every basic land is basically half a sol ring! pseudanonymous posted:Stranglehold, Aven mindcensor, ashiok These are cool but "gimme that" is my favourite card thing and part of this card, maybe I should just give it a try seems fun never seen it played before. Khanstant fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Dec 23, 2022 |
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Dec 23, 2022 00:25
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I thought that league idea sounds terrible. Let's just make every deck progressively worse every week? Am I missing something?
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Dec 23, 2022 00:31
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cosmicjim posted:I thought that league idea sounds terrible. Let's just make every deck progressively worse every week? Am I missing something? Seems like it's really vulnerable to petty salty players too. Just ban the winner's wincon so their deck doesn't work anymore. I'd fuckin quit too if that happened.
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Dec 23, 2022 00:41
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Khanstant posted:I was actually disappointed when I learned the singleton rule in commander is a complete lie, they don't even expect you to pick different art for each basic land. They shouldn't be banned, they should just follow the rules like everyone else. There are so many sad lands out there that never see play because basic lands are just better. Every basic land is basically half a sol ring! Basic Lands are overpowered. You can fetch them with Fabled Passage and Prismatic Vista. Tutor for one with Rampant Growth or replace a land with them if you get hit with a Field of Ruin, Demolition Field, or Ghost Quarter. They're even immune to Wasteland, Boseiju, Tectonic Edge, and just a whole mess of other abilities. Hell, you don't take any damage from Price of Progress or Burning Earth if you tap them for mana and you can untap then through a Back to Basics.
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Dec 23, 2022 00:43
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Simone Poodoin posted:Ban Sol Ring Prof's account finally reveals itself
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Dec 23, 2022 00:45
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Dizz posted:banning basic lands. it seems they're a staple that helps decks to win, and they're in 100% of decks. I mean a lot of cEDH decks run 1 in case of path or decay. So technically correct I guess.
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Dec 23, 2022 01:09
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Dizz posted:banning basic lands. it seems they're a staple that helps decks to win, and they're in 100% of decks. Basic lands weren't eligible. I want to say no lands were eligible but I'm not 100% sure. cosmicjim posted:I thought that league idea sounds terrible. Let's just make every deck progressively worse every week? Am I missing something? Framboise posted:Seems like it's really vulnerable to petty salty players too. Just ban the winner's wincon so their deck doesn't work anymore. I'd fuckin quit too if that happened. Important context: when they set up the league, people asked for a reason to play new decks/not their usual decks/ridiculous decks. This wasn't "ban Thassa's Oracle from the deck built around Thoracle," most decks didn't have a singular wincon. We were mostly playing untested jank for fun because we'd been playing the same tuned decks against each other for months, and tuning them further against each other while we did.
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Dec 23, 2022 01:17
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pseudanonymous posted:I mean a lot of cEDH decks run 1 in case of path or decay. So technically correct I guess. i've noticed a lot of cedh decks as well are all running the same thing as well so here's a few more bans to promote deck diversity: Thassa's Oracle Underworld Breach Mana Crypt Mana Vault Moxes Ad Nauseum Every single Counter spell Laboratory Maniac
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Dec 23, 2022 04:39
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Sheldon and the entire RC are garbage and the community should, as a whole, reject them. There's no excuse for them to do what they do. WotC at this point should also be willing to toss them after today's article, because pulling back the curtain for clicks isn't what WotC wants from them. Basically, Sheldon should be radioactive to literally everyone but Ben Bleweiss at this point.
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Dec 23, 2022 06:50
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The non-Sheldon people I've seen on the RC have seemed nice when they were on Shut Up and Play or whatever. Are they all individually hated too for their own reasons or is anyone who takes a seat on the RC going to be disliked by some simply for being on it?
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Dec 23, 2022 07:07
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Khanstant posted:The non-Sheldon people I've seen on the RC have seemed nice when they were on Shut Up and Play or whatever. Are they all individually hated too for their own reasons or is anyone who takes a seat on the RC going to be disliked by some simply for being on it? They are all providing free labor to a $5 billion megacorp. They should be paraded in the streets as traitors to the working man. Hasbro/WotC makes enough money to pay people for their labor. Doing it for free harms the entire industry, and by extension, all workers. Megacorps are not your friend.
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Dec 23, 2022 07:15
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Batterypowered7 posted:Shut your mouth before I lose one of my few truly good Rogues. You are not looking hard enough if Opposition Agent is one of your only truly good rogues. They're one of the best tribes
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Dec 23, 2022 13:55
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btw im 100% on hating the RC and how dogshit their rules are and i'd love for the community to somehow collaborate into a more up to date ruleset and go back to EDH instead of "Commander"
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Dec 23, 2022 14:03
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Heath posted:You are not looking hard enough if Opposition Agent is one of your only truly good rogues. They're one of the best tribes You're right. How could I forget about Earwig Squad?
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Dec 23, 2022 15:06
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When's the last time a mono white cmc 5+ creature was a problem in any format?
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Dec 23, 2022 16:06
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Batterypowered7 posted:You're right. How could I forget about Earwig Squad? Agent of Treachery, Anowon, Ruin Thief, Blighted Agent, Body Launderer, Bold Plagiarist, Cephalid Facetaker, Cormela, Glamour Thief, Cunning Nightbonder, fuckin' Dauthi Voidwalker, Deepchannel Mentor, Dogged Detective, Eloise, Nephalia Sleuth, Enigma Thief, Errant, Street Artist, Evelyn, the Covetous, Ghostly Pilferer, Glasspool Mimic, Gonti, Lord of Luxury, Grim Hireling, Hoard Robber, Imoen, Mystic Trickster, Joven(!!), Kamber, the Plunderer & Laurine, the Diversion (very underrated partners imo), Keeper of the Keys, Morbid Opportunist, Nighthawk Scavenger, Notion Thief, Ogre Slumlord, Oona's Blackguard, Prowling Geistcatcher, Rankle, Master of Pranks, Ravenloft Adventurer, Rilsa Rael, Kingpin, Robber of the Rich, Sakashima of a Thousand Faces, Sakashima the Impostor, Sanguine Spy, Sygg, River Cutthroat, Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive, Thada Adel, Acquisitior, Thieves' Guild Enforcer, Thieving Skydiver, Tinybones, Trinket Thief, Treasure Nabber, True-Name Nemesis, Undercover Operative, Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire, Warehouse Thief, Zagras, Thief of Heartbeats, Zareth San, the Trickster, Zulaport Cutthroat Those are all just in Grixis colors because they're ones I run in my rogue heavy decks
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Dec 23, 2022 16:09
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