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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:did we watch the same movie All the individual shots were gorgeous, and the Na'Vi themselves lookes incredible. But nothing looks good in HFR. It just can't. It's like someone hit fast forward on a VCR.
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Dec 23, 2022 21:52
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stev posted:It's a really effective way of making a half billion dollar movie look cheap and ugly.  For real though, I think HFR is very subjective and how it looks almost always will depend on the individual. I love its application in TWOW, but I get how some would find it offputting, or see how it'd make things look too video game-y or soap opera-y or whatever other comparison.
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Dec 23, 2022 21:52
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stev posted:All the individual shots were gorgeous, and the Na'Vi themselves lookes incredible. But nothing looks good in HFR. It just can't. It's like someone hit fast forward on a VCR. what lol Maybe i can cap games at 24fps to make them look better...
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Dec 23, 2022 21:53
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It's the soap opera effect. James Cameron spent time and money adding the soap opera effect to his big comeback movie.
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Dec 23, 2022 21:54
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HD and high framerate can make props and makeup which works in low framerate look terrible. I'm going to be seeing it in RealD 3D - does that have high framerates? I heard some Japanese theaters crashed, because they couldn't handle the movie files. https://twitter.com/Bosslogic/status/1606339100625158144
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Dec 23, 2022 21:58
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Vir posted:HD and high framerate can make props and makeup which works in low framerate look terrible. I'm going to be seeing it in RealD 3D - does that have high framerates? I heard some Japanese theaters crashed, because they couldn't handle the movie files. it looked great in 3d for us
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Dec 23, 2022 21:59
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Vir posted:HD and high framerate can make props and makeup which works in low framerate look terrible. I'm going to be seeing it in RealD 3D - does that have high framerates? I heard some Japanese theaters crashed, because they couldn't handle the movie files. I first saw TWOW at a venue in RealD 3D with HFR and laser projection, and it looked amazing. I saw it at a legacy IMAX venue (70 ft screen, digital/xenon projection) without HFR a few days later, and while IMAX's 3D implementation was significantly better than RealD, but I preferred the RealD version simply because of the HFR and it being laser projected -- that combination trumps any legacy IMAX benefits for me. The IMAX venue also didn't have recliners so my butt was hurting during the third act, lol.
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Dec 23, 2022 22:01
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I suppose some people just don't notice it, but honestly to me it looked no different to leaving motion smoothing turned on on a TV. I didn't see any benefit at all. And games are obviously different and benefit from higher framerates. That goes without saying.
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Dec 23, 2022 22:10
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:hes already credited as the story writer for avatar 3-5 also He also wrote Armageddon  Like Cameron bruh you really couldn’t find a more sophisticated writer with those titanic and avatar profits?
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Dec 23, 2022 22:17
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stev posted:I suppose some people just don't notice it, but honestly to me it looked no different to leaving motion smoothing turned on on a TV. I didn't see any benefit at all. No it's definitely noticeable, I'm sure it's noticeable to people who don't even know what HFR stands for, heh. They probably just can't articulate the difference, but they can see it. Though like anything art related, its application is purely subjective I think. Here's Cameron's reasoning for variable HFR: James Cameron posted:I have a personal philosophy around high frame rate, which is that it is a specific solution to specific problems having to do with 3D... And when you get the strobing and the [judder] of certain shots that pan or certain lateral movement across frame, it’s distracting in 3D. And to me, [high frame rate is] just a solution for those shots. I don’t think it’s a format. That’s just me personally. I know Ang sees it that way. I don’t think it’s like the next 70 millimeters or the next big thing. I think it’s a tool to be used to solve problems in 3D projection. You might not agree with him, but Cameron is one of the more notable pioneers in the 3D filmmaking space, so it's not like he doesn't know what he's talking about lol. But again, even he said "that's just me" wrt how he views HFR as a tool and not a format, so it's a definitely a preference thing.
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Dec 23, 2022 22:19
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Is this on disney+ yet?
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Dec 23, 2022 22:42
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Yeah it’s not that people don’t notice HFR, it’s just that it does seem to look good to some of us. It’s not like if we “noticed” it we would say it looks cheap. I thought it looked fantastic in action and water scene. I also liked how HFR looked in a lot of Gemini Man. But yeah it can be a drawback, but I think it works well in more cgi like this.
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Dec 23, 2022 22:53
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MacheteZombie posted:Is this on disney+ yet? You think Cameron would let that happen lol?
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Dec 23, 2022 22:53
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I thought the explosions looked amazing in HFR. It captured the mesmerizing quality of an IRL fireball, while still being cinematically unreal.
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Dec 23, 2022 22:55
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checkplease posted:You think Cameron would let that happen lol? I dont know a single person who went to the theater to see it so I can't imagine it has any legs there
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Dec 23, 2022 22:59
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I feel like weirdly the HFR stuff that really stood out to me was when normie rear end humans were involved. Like in particular the only time it really hit me hard was when watching the scene where they are all getting ready for battle on the whaling ship, so presumably I didn't notice so much with the Na'vi because the unreality is already baked in.
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Dec 23, 2022 23:17
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I saw it 3D HFR and literally didn't notice anything other than that the film looked great, and this with me being wary if anything because of how bad HFR was in the Hobbit. Maybe it depends on the cinema set-up?
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Dec 23, 2022 23:28
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Deleted, my phone was not caught up with the thread and I didn't see the move the discussion post.
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Dec 23, 2022 23:54
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MLSM posted:The reason why the The Way Of Water’s script sucks so much rear end is because it was written by the same hack who wrote Alien vs Predator Requiem lmao That's probably overstating how much input he had. He's one of 5 people with "Story by" credits, and he doesn't have a screenplay credit. The screenplay is by Cameron and a the same duo who wrote the new planet of the apes trilogy. Frankly I thought it was a much better script than the first Avatar, which only James Cameron wrote. And HFR looked great, where I thought it was absolutely horrible for the Hobbit. I can immediately notice when a TV has their motion smoothing setting is turned on. To me it didn't look like Hobbit or motion smoothing at all. Maybe that was the due to the aesthetics, or maybe I just appreciated it because it made the 3D easier to enjoy, not sure.
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Dec 23, 2022 23:56
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stev posted:I suppose some people just don't notice it, but honestly to me it looked no different to leaving motion smoothing turned on on a TV. I didn't see any benefit at all. I think a lot is based on where you see it. I'm super sensitive to it, but it wasn't even noticeable much at all in Imax 3D; you just noticed the lack of artifacts in pans and stuff. I hear it's different in different formats.
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Dec 23, 2022 23:58
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stratdax posted:And HFR looked great, where I thought it was absolutely horrible for the Hobbit. I can immediately notice when a TV has their motion smoothing setting is turned on. To me it didn't look like Hobbit or motion smoothing at all. Maybe that was the due to the aesthetics, or maybe I just appreciated it because it made the 3D easier to enjoy, not sure. There's an argument to be had as to what genre better suits HFR and 3D application imo. Like, The Hobbit? I don't think that high fantasy setting benefits from HFR or 3D because it reduces that fantasy element; the footage ends up looking more like a stage play, lacking that cinematic aesthetic you want for a fantasy film (imo). Science fiction though? I think HFR and 3D works great to ground anything that's a fair bit more alien in apperance or immerse you in whatever distant world you're visiting. The cinematic experience is still there with HFR and 3D in a sci-fi film, but it's a different one; it's more like documentary footage or a theme park ride. Action films would benefit from HFR for obvious reason too, but I think directing action in stereo 3D -- especially a sci-fi actioner genre film -- requires an entirely different skillset from directing action traditionally, so the experience will vary based on the director. I really liked the HFR in Gemini Man, despite how garbage the film was lol. teagone fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Dec 24, 2022 |
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Dec 24, 2022 00:13
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I thought the HFR was neat and I enjoyed thinking about what shots they chose to “emphasize” with it and why, especially when it was a non action scene Why should I never “perceive” editing? How do you *not* notice it? I don’t understand that conceit at all lol
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Dec 24, 2022 00:31
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checkplease posted:Yeah it’s not that people don’t notice HFR, it’s just that it does seem to look good to some of us. It’s not like if we “noticed” it we would say it looks cheap. I thought it looked fantastic in action and water scene. I also liked how HFR looked in a lot of Gemini Man. But yeah it can be a drawback, but I think it works well in more cgi like this. HFR makes everything look hyper-real and also eliminates some artifacting, both of which are great for James Cameron's Blue Alien Love Letter to Earth and not so great for The Hobbit. The main complaint about HFR is that it makes everything look like just some guys in front of a camera, which is absolutely perfect for an entirely constructed CG world. James Cameron is a powerful genius. I am a huge Avatar fan though, like the finale always gets me weepy. The key to appreciating Avatar is to understand that Pandora is not real, and the Avatar is actually about how beautiful Earth is and what a tragedy it would be to lose it.
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Dec 24, 2022 00:57
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I came here to post about how Nate and Trudy's romance was cut and how they did Nate dirty but now I'm thinking about The Environment and poo poo. This was the purpose of the movie.
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Dec 24, 2022 01:00
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Goth Odell Beckham posted:I thought the HFR was neat and I enjoyed thinking about what shots they chose to “emphasize” with it and why, especially when it was a non action scene I personally agree, but, I'll tell you some people absolutely are obsessed with trying disguise the process and think you should only notice an edit at an obvious scene change. It's a preference thing.
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Dec 24, 2022 01:00
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Apparently he's converting Titanic to HFR for a re-release. Why in the gently caress. Am I seriously the only one that felt physically ill watching this?
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Dec 24, 2022 01:13
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stev posted:Apparently he's converting Titanic to HFR for a re-release. Why in the gently caress. I'm ill reading the thread
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Dec 24, 2022 01:22
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stev posted:Apparently he's converting Titanic to HFR for a re-release. Why in the gently caress. My guess is Cameron will make the HFR effect a bit more subtle in Titanic, maybe using a different TrueCut Motion implementation? I dunno. For reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWcWfmzpX7k quote:Am I seriously the only one that felt physically ill watching this? Wasn't there another goon who mentioned they got motion sickness from the HFR in TWOW? Or was that also you, lol. I forget.
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Dec 24, 2022 01:26
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I only noticed the HFR once and it was hardly distracting at all. Pretty much everything looked flawless.
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Dec 24, 2022 01:36
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I think I lasted about 2 minutes on my friends VR headset before getting funny tummy and I know folks can play for hours at a time so yeah I think these things are just subjective
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Dec 24, 2022 01:38
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MacheteZombie posted:I dont know a single person who went to the theater to see it so I can't imagine it has any legs there Go check it out. It’s a one of kind theater experience currently. Though admittedly if you didn’t like the first one, 3 hours is a large ask.
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Dec 24, 2022 01:40
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I don't get how people get sick watching 48fps, aren't we all playing video games at this point which run at 60-120? Do people hurl when watching sports? With Hobbit it's understandable because of the pervasive motion blur, but that isn't a problem here. Variable frame rate also isn't new, television has been switching between 60/24 for decades and film drops to 12 for effect a lot. Animation in particular is all over the place.
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Dec 24, 2022 01:57
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I think gaming (and especially VR) is different because it's more of a dynamic experience and with VR there's a lot of head swinging that benefits from ultra-high framerate. Someone in another thread schooled me on the whole 'framerate of the eye' myth a few months back and i remember that being the takeaway, that gaming is a different animal but we're basically just conditioned to accept the motion blur of 24/30fps for film and TV.stev posted:Apparently he's converting Titanic to HFR for a re-release. Why in the gently caress. How is converting a film from the 90s that was shot in 24fps to a higher frame rate... any different from turning on the TruMotion setting on your TV? It's frame interpolation, isn't that exactly the same? My roommate loves that poo poo. I literally can't watch movies with him because of it, and I have to constantly turn it off on my TV because he just got done watching The Rings of Power or something. It makes me ill. He says he went to school for film but idk if I believe that. I didn't notice any HFR in TWOW though. Maybe I got a screening that didn't have it? Mister Speaker fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Dec 24, 2022 |
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Dec 24, 2022 02:04
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Mister Speaker posted:I didn't notice any HFR in TWOW though. Maybe I got a screening that didn't have it? If you're familiar with gaming at framerates higher than 30fps or 60fps on displays that are 120Hz or greater, you should be able to instantly perceive the difference in framerate whenever Cameron applies HFR to a sequence and when it cuts back to a scene in standard 24FPS. I've been playing games at 100+ FPS for decades at this point, and have been gaming on 144 to 240Hz displays for the last several years. I think most if not ALL Dolby Cinema equipped venues present the film in 3D HFR. The only way to watch the film in non-HFR is either at a legacy IMAX venue that deliberately projects the film at standard frame rate -- I'm still unsure if legacy IMAX Digital (xenon) is capabale of projecting HFR -- or if you see it in 2D at a smaller local/non-chain theater that didn't receive a HFR copy of the film. Otherwise, I think most venues will be presenting the film in 3D with HFR. I think I saw one AMC chain that had a 2D laser projected HFR show in CA, so that's another way to see the film: non-3D laser projection with HFR. I personally think 2D with variable HFR defeats the purpose though. teagone fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Dec 24, 2022 |
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Dec 24, 2022 02:18
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Ah I was wrong; the theatrical cut of the first film does have a scene on earth - Sully's brother's cremation. That's it though. Are any of the avatar marines in the recom squad in the original film? The bald guy who greets the marines looks familiar. I forgot how much I can't stand watching movies with my family. "Where are they going?" literally right after Sully's VO narration explained Pandora. Gonna be a long night.
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Dec 24, 2022 02:24
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I mean there are ways to do frame rate conversion that don't involve motion blur, you can literally just duplicate frames if you're doubling it. This is what Cameron did for this movie for the non HFR scenes, incidentally. I would absolutely take this over the really terrible look of some CGI scenes where they're faking motion blur at lower frame rate - look at something from Starship Troopers era as an example. That was fairly cutting edge at the time. But freeze the frames where the bugs are moving fast. It's just a big shmear. Budget CGI still does this today. That's distinct from the way that most TVs apply image processing to do smoothing and interpolation and such, which is pretty universally awful. People are just trained to expect it visually though. For my part, when I'm gaming the first thing I do is make sure that any graphical motion blur settings are turned off in game because I want crisp visibility of what's going on. I definitely perceived the scenes in Avatar where it was bumped up, but it didn't look bad to me - it looked crisp and hurried and gave the movie a feeling almost like when you get an adrenaline dump, which matched the action that it was being used for. I didn't like the implementation of it in the Hobbit movies very much, but in those it was largely being used because they could. But a lot of the CGI animation in those was pretty bad already, which didn't help.
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Dec 24, 2022 02:33
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Mister Speaker posted:Are any of the avatar marines in the recom squad in the original film? The bald guy who greets the marines looks familiar. Fike. We see him with Lyle (the bald dude) near the start of the film; he's the "meals on wheels" guy, when they point out Sully from the new recuits. He's present at various points through the first film.
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Dec 24, 2022 02:36
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SCheeseman posted:I don't get how people get sick watching 48fps, aren't we all playing video games at this point which run at 60-120? You have control over the camera and movement in video games, and you're not playing them on 50 foot screens that are 70 feet away
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Dec 24, 2022 02:45
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The HFR in Avatar is good, even if the HFR in other movies was bad.
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Dec 24, 2022 02:46
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Is Horner's score entirely original or are some of the motifs and cadences borrowed from other composers? I'm familiar with composition for film enough to know that it's a pretty common thing that music gets re-used a lot. In particular, there's a four-note brass trill in the 'despair'/'evil' theme in both movies that I've definitely heard in other films - the one that comes to mind immediately is Enemy at the Gates. Mister Speaker fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Dec 24, 2022 |
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Dec 24, 2022 04:21
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