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w00tmonger posted:The naming thing backfired hard, but anything with logos will get you nailed hard. I'm just glad they don't find the guy making Epic scale STLs on Kickstarter until well after the project funds and I have my STLs. He's done not-Necrons, -Tyrranids, and -Death Guard so far. This winter is kicking my rear end. I have my new printer set up in a well-ventilated area, but it hasn't been as warm as 55F in ages.
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Dec 22, 2022 07:53
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mllaneza posted:I'm just glad they don't find the guy making Epic scale STLs on Kickstarter until well after the project funds and I have my STLs. He's done not-Necrons, -Tyrranids, and -Death Guard so far. My attic hovers around 50º and I built a 24"x18" box out of MDF and used construction adhesive to put foam insulation on the outside. I picked up a small (like 6" high) "personal heater" which IIRC runs at like 200 Watts, and have that plugged into a thermostat controlled outlet (which came with the seed starter heat pad I tried first, which was only 24W and was on all the time and never got up past 62º. Anyway, I heat the box to 80º, which doesn't take long and thanks to the insulation, stays toasty. I turn the heater on like an hour before I print with the bottle of resin in there as well so everything is nice and warm and the box stays warm for a long time before the heater has to kick back in.
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Dec 22, 2022 15:27
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mllaneza posted:I'm just glad they don't find the guy making Epic scale STLs on Kickstarter until well after the project funds and I have my STLs. He's done not-Necrons, -Tyrranids, and -Death Guard so far. As long as you don’t make the designs too close to the original model, they let that slide. 3dArtGuy did a Not-Thunderhawk and GW told him to change some things to make it more distinct from the original. That was it. They probably know that they can’t win those battles (c.f. Every Chinese knock-off ever)
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Dec 22, 2022 16:25
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I'm still sad that I missed his not-Tyranids.
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Dec 22, 2022 17:12
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When printing minis and bases separately, do you prime each then glue, or glue first and then prime?
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Dec 22, 2022 18:01
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mllaneza posted:I'm just glad they don't find the guy making Epic scale STLs on Kickstarter until well after the project funds and I have my STLs. He's done not-Necrons, -Tyrranids, and -Death Guard so far. There's a few projects to add little enclosure heaters for resin printing if you haven't seen them yet. I think this one was posted in the general 3d printing thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQmmGj6gMdk
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Dec 22, 2022 18:18
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Toebone posted:When printing minis and bases separately, do you prime each then glue, or glue first and then prime? I kinda cheat and don't do either. Litttle blobs of poster-tack-stuff in the places where glue needs to go, and after priming take the blobs off. I do this all over the model, wherever arms are going to glue to the torso or where a backpack will glue on the back, stuff like that. I don't have any solid evidence that glue can't fasten completely to the surface through a layer of primer but I've never wanted to test it.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:02
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bird food bathtub posted:I kinda cheat and don't do either. Litttle blobs of poster-tack-stuff in the places where glue needs to go, and after priming take the blobs off. I do this all over the model, wherever arms are going to glue to the torso or where a backpack will glue on the back, stuff like that. I don't have any solid evidence that glue can't fasten completely to the surface through a layer of primer but I've never wanted to test it. That's smart, I generally just glue then prime unless it's a decorative base, then I just do them completely separate and glue at the end.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:06
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The real pro strat is to put a drop of resin under each foot and then just cure it to the base.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:17
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Toebone posted:When printing minis and bases separately, do you prime each then glue, or glue first and then prime? Depends on how nice you want it to look and how much you can get at the bottom parts of the model. Rank n file I glue to bases first. Characters and special stuff I do separately.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:43
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If they have a big cape I definitely glue them to base later. If they are wearing pants I will probably glue them to the base. Lots of times I come up with the plan on a per model basis.
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Dec 23, 2022 03:49
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I paint the model and base separately. Then I have a hell of time getting it glued on right w/o messing things up. So then I put them on the base first. Then I have a hell of a time painting around the feet and places where the base is in the way. So then I paint the model and base separately. I almost always paint the model and base separately
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Dec 23, 2022 04:42
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Doctor Zero posted:As long as you don’t make the designs too close to the original model, they let that slide. 3dArtGuy did a Not-Thunderhawk and GW told him to change some things to make it more distinct from the original. That was it. This guy flew way too close to the sun. So long as GW keeps popping him after I download my STLs, I'll keep backing his stuff though.
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Dec 24, 2022 10:17
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So a couple days ago we were talking about GW and copyright and whatnot, but now I am curious. I have purchased a lot of decals/sliders for different factions, factions that don't get specific kits or parts or decals, but are shown in in the codex and whatnot. Is stuff like that legal, or stuff like this : https://www.etsy.com/listing/135309..._search_click=1 ? I would think not, but I have purchased a lot of custom parts so now I am wondering.
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Dec 24, 2022 18:25
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IncredibleIgloo posted:So a couple days ago we were talking about GW and copyright and whatnot, but now I am curious. I have purchased a lot of decals/sliders for different factions, factions that don't get specific kits or parts or decals, but are shown in in the codex and whatnot. Is stuff like that legal, or stuff like this : https://www.etsy.com/listing/135309..._search_click=1 ? Yeah those are all copyright infringing, and the listing is trademark infringing, the term "Warhammer 40k" is fully trademarked and cannot be used to identify products without permission from GW. They're in no way illegal to buy or own, but GW could take the seller to court for damages. Most likely they would just send a C&D letter to Etsy to have it taken down.
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Dec 24, 2022 18:46
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Ok, that is what I thought. As I am trying to wrap my mind around what exactly is or is not copyright/TM, it makes sense that the images and symbols used throughout GW material are obviously protected. Does trademark/copyright apply to excerpts of rules? In particular, could I sell small counters or chits that have helpful gameplay info on them? It seems clear I could sell little chits that are super generic, like "1 Hit" or "+1 to wound" or things like that, but lets say I want to make and sell little chits for the various new Imperial Guard command abilities. Is a chit that says "First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire : Lasguns are Heavy 3" infringing? I imagine a chit that says "FRFSRF: LGs are H3" would be sufficiently vague to avoid, but I am worried about some of the abilities with shorter names or less complex abilities.
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Dec 24, 2022 19:11
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Copyright applies to a specific work, so the rules, as written by GW, are under copyright. The actual rules, as a concept, are not copyrightable, so you can technically write your own rulebook and get away with it. It comes up surprisingly often in the world of boardgames, but it's also vague enough that you might get hosed anyway. The trick is usually to use a wording that is obvious to anyone who'd actually buy the product, while also not mentioning anything about GW or Warhammer at all. Your chits shouldn't draw much ire from GW, but who knows at this point.
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Dec 24, 2022 20:51
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IncredibleIgloo posted:Ok, that is what I thought. I am not a lawyer and I don’t even play one on TV. This post does not give legal advice. But anything you write is automatically copyrighted. You no longer have to register it, or mail it or anything like that (although even then the postmark it advice was dubious anyway). Of course the rub is that if anyone does infringe your copyright, you have to prove to a judge and possibly jury that they did. However this only extends as far as the words themselves. You cannot copyright ideas, concepts, nor rule systems. Only the words of the rules themselves are copyright, technically. However GW does crack down on people who put rules and stats online. It would be a bugger of a fight to defend that “Lasguns are Heavy 3” is not copyright infringing and GW has the advantage of experienced lawyers and deep pockets. Best to just avoid that entirely. Now status reminders are another matter. ‘Smoke’, ‘overwatch’, ‘charge’, ‘assault’, ‘falling back’, ‘broken’ are common enough terms throughout gaming that you’d be safe. hit point markers would be fine. Things that could arguably used in any game, not just GW’s rule sets. Trademarks, however, are different. They get researched, registered, and defended rigorously. A trademark is a name, term, logo, phrase, or other identifier that a reasonable person would recognize as being an indication of brand. That’s why GW shifted to more specific names for their armies, because the old terms were too generic to be defensible, despite some early wins in court. “space marines” could be anything from a Heinlein reference, to a Doom references despite the phrase recognition. That’s why they started using Adeptus Astartes, and that stuff. GW will come down on you for using game names in listings. It’s happened to me. The lawyer I talked to was actually really cool, and explained that I can’t put Warhammer 40k in any title, label, image, or the like, but if I put it in the description that’s okay. I decided to just avoid it in any displayed text, to avoid any bots. (i did and do put the terms in search keywords, though). The idea was GW didn’t want anyone to think it might be an official GW product, unless of course it was e.g. using those terms when reselling real GW products is fine. The thing about trademarks however is you HAVE to register it. So the imperial Aquila almost surely is registered. The most common army icons might be as well. An interesting story here - another auto company (GM I think) released an SUV with the seven slot front end like Jeeps have had for years and years. Chrysler got all pissed off and was going to sue … until the lawyers realized they had never bothered to register the trademark grille. They managed to do it before anyone else realized it too, but if someone else beat them to it … too bad so sad. So you want to avoid symbols that are too easily recognizable like the Aquila. An original omega design would likely be okay, even though it’s the ultramarines symbol. You can’t trademark a Greek letter. It’s already too commonly established. Now there is a third thing, which is patent. Patent protects intellectual property in the form of designs, methods, non-obvious production, and so on. A game company can not patent a game system. Again, you can’t protect nebulous concepts like game rules. You can protect things like tangible manufacturing processes, however, assuming that there is some “special sauce” in how you do it. So GW could patent a game aid if they came up with a unique design (like a spinner or something). But they can’t patent the rule system. Technically you could create a game system exactly like 40k as long as you don’t use any of their text, and change the names and terms to be different. Scatter dice become drift dice, furious assault becomes overwhelming attack, and so on. There wouldn’t really be anything they could do about it, but you also probably couldn’t sell it because anyone who plays GW games at all regularly knows the game well enough to not have to read it anyway. Again, this post does on constitute legal advice. Doctor Zero fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Dec 24, 2022 |
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Dec 24, 2022 23:30
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That was very helpful, thank you. What I will do is use the most generic terms possible for anything I sell, when I get around to that. So, if I am understanding the Chapter House ruling correctly, Space Marine is too broad for GW to enforce a trademark on, along with Imperial Guard. Is it therefore safe to use those two terms? Quick edit: It sounds like the terms that go into an item search like on etsy are safe to use, so I could put all the stuff I wanted in the search terms and then just very safely say "Space Army with German Traditions" or whatever, and that would be safest and still get all the traffic I need? IncredibleIgloo fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 00:11
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IncredibleIgloo posted:That was very helpful, thank you. What I will do is use the most generic terms possible for anything I sell, when I get around to that. The last thing is safest. If you use space marines or imperial guard, you’re treading on thin ice. Just because GW has moved to more defensible terms, doesn’t mean you won’t raise their ire if you lean into them too much. If you put it in a description, you’ll be fine, especially if you put it in a generic context, OR you just use it for comparison. “same scale as imperial guard!” is pretty safe. “compatible with any army that has space for marines!” Would be cheeky but also safe. Just keep the, out of titles and advertisements, or images. The last method also has the advantage of being obvious to anyone looking for the type of guard the models are ‘inspired by’ while simultaneously protecting against trademark searches.
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Dec 25, 2022 00:30
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I'm also not a lawyer, but I've dealt with enough of them regarding IP law to have a pretty good layman's understanding of the stuff and Doctor Zero's explanation is clear and concise. The one thing I would add is that even if you have the law on your side, GW can still make things difficult/expensive for you, so it's best to stay on the conservative side of things. Remember that putting trademarked terms in your search and description fields may be legal, but it also makes it as easy for GW to find your listings as it does for your potential customers.
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Dec 25, 2022 16:49
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You don't have to be a lawyer to appreciate skirting GW names with cooler ones like "4th planet style battle doggo" though.
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Dec 25, 2022 17:35
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Space Karens might be my favorite.
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Dec 26, 2022 00:15
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IncredibleIgloo posted:Quick edit: It sounds like the terms that go into an item search like on etsy are safe to use, so I could put all the stuff I wanted in the search terms and then just very safely say "Space Army with German Traditions" or whatever, and that would be safest and still get all the traffic I need? This company seems to be getting away with it, take inspiration from them. https://www.trolls.cz/collections/6mm-infantry I have some of their not-Necron 6mm and they're pretty good quality.
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Dec 30, 2022 10:15
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I have very slowly started working on double sided PHB accurate dnd coins for resin printing. These came from making files for laser cutting. I just recently posted copper pieces on printables And I have silver ready to go, but I haven't printed it yet because I only have an FDM printer at home. I kept seeing interpretations of the coins, but I wanted to see something right out of the book. https://www.printables.com/model/354271-dnd-copper-coin
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Jan 1, 2023 02:48
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IncredibleIgloo posted:So a couple days ago we were talking about GW and copyright and whatnot, but now I am curious. I have purchased a lot of decals/sliders for different factions, factions that don't get specific kits or parts or decals, but are shown in in the codex and whatnot. Is stuff like that legal, or stuff like this : https://www.etsy.com/listing/135309..._search_click=1 ? FYI, I've bought decals that are clearly copyright infringing like those, and most of those stores do disappear. I suspect they get DMCA'd or whatever, then pop back up with a new name the next day.
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Jan 1, 2023 06:30
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jassi007 posted:FYI, I've bought decals that are clearly copyright infringing like those, and most of those stores do disappear. I suspect they get DMCA'd or whatever, then pop back up with a new name the next day. Yeah, now that I have my glowforge I have been looking at etsy stores for patterns and stuff and have noticed something similar. What somewhat frustrates me is when I see a store selling like a "250 pack of warhammer SVGs", like that seems to be just brazenly making money off someone else's IP with little to no effort on their own.
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Jan 1, 2023 08:08
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IncredibleIgloo posted:Yeah, now that I have my glowforge I have been looking at etsy stores for patterns and stuff and have noticed something similar. What somewhat frustrates me is when I see a store selling like a "250 pack of warhammer SVGs", like that seems to be just brazenly making money off someone else's IP with little to no effort on their own. 
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Jan 1, 2023 17:49
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The worst part is I buy it because it is 2.50 and already organized into file folders and clearly named, thus saving me 30 minutes of work.
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Jan 1, 2023 19:39
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Stealing from corporations is cool and good, though.
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Jan 2, 2023 00:37
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Shop local, steal corporate.
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Jan 2, 2023 00:59
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So here's something odd (AKA, I am a dummy and need you all to explain it to me): In Lychee, it estimates ~2.5h for a print. I export the .pwma file to UVTools, it estimates 2.5h. I put file on my printer, it says ~2.5h. I hit print, and the time jumps to 6.5h, and that's how long it takes. Since my prints are coming out fine, I am not complaining by any means, but that just seems strange. The one that is printing now is the height of a 28mm figure w/o the head. My setting are attached. Is this normal, or do I have something set very stupidly?
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Jan 5, 2023 04:18
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Lumpy posted:So here's something odd (AKA, I am a dummy and need you all to explain it to me): In Lychee, it estimates ~2.5h for a print. I export the .pwma file to UVTools, it estimates 2.5h. I put file on my printer, it says ~2.5h. I hit print, and the time jumps to 6.5h, and that's how long it takes. Since my prints are coming out fine, I am not complaining by any means, but that just seems strange. The one that is printing now is the height of a 28mm figure w/o the head. My setting are attached. Is this normal, or do I have something set very stupidly? I've never been able to figure this out. Also guess who's vat was leaking onto the printer and silicone mat for a few days  One new screen and a totally stripped and cleaned photon mono x later... Screen protector didn't do fuckall against a slow sustained leak. I'll use more kapton tape this time.
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Jan 5, 2023 04:25
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I use basically the exact same settings as your screenshot and I've noticed that my printer (Anycubic Photon Mono X) will usually add on about an extra 20-30 minutes but not more than that. I'd be interested to know folks settings for supports in Lychee, pre-supported stuff prints just fine but I always struggle with supporting my own models.
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Jan 5, 2023 04:33
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Deviant posted:
Oh Lordy....  I can't wait for something like that to happen to me!
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Jan 5, 2023 04:36
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Lumpy posted:So here's something odd (AKA, I am a dummy and need you all to explain it to me): In Lychee, it estimates ~2.5h for a print. I export the .pwma file to UVTools, it estimates 2.5h. I put file on my printer, it says ~2.5h. I hit print, and the time jumps to 6.5h, and that's how long it takes. Since my prints are coming out fine, I am not complaining by any means, but that just seems strange. The one that is printing now is the height of a 28mm figure w/o the head. My setting are attached. Is this normal, or do I have something set very stupidly? I have the same issue with Chitubox. As far as I know the time estimate is off because it is unable to account for acceleration and and some other aspects of the printer that are not easy to figure out. So always assume your prints are going to take way longer.
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Jan 5, 2023 05:02
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Lumpy posted:So here's something odd (AKA, I am a dummy and need you all to explain it to me): In Lychee, it estimates ~2.5h for a print. I export the .pwma file to UVTools, it estimates 2.5h. I put file on my printer, it says ~2.5h. I hit print, and the time jumps to 6.5h, and that's how long it takes. Since my prints are coming out fine, I am not complaining by any means, but that just seems strange. The one that is printing now is the height of a 28mm figure w/o the head. My setting are attached. Is this normal, or do I have something set very stupidly? Yeah my.slicing estimate is usually only like 50% of the time it'll really take. Never figured out why.
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Jan 5, 2023 05:17
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I think the estimate is basically amount of layers x exposure time and it doesn't really know how to take into account lift speed and that kind of thing. For an estimated print time of 2.5 hours it usually takes a bit over 3 hours for me, and comparing my settings to yours I have a much higher lift speed, less exposure on burn-in layers, higher lift distance, and shorter light off delay. I have light off delay at 0.2 and lift speed at 180, my guess is that the light off delay is what's causing such a huge difference.
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Jan 5, 2023 09:21
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Usually mine are a bit longer and take a bit longer, but nothing like that. Do you have a really long screen off time or something like that?
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Jan 5, 2023 15:11
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TSMC can throw the calculation off, especially if you have a printer that has TSMC attributes that are not visible or adjustable by the slicer.
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Jan 5, 2023 16:11
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