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Lockback posted:Depending what you're looking for it may be more of a challenge to find what you're looking for. Good leave benefits are great but I don't know that that by itself will make finding someone trivial. Not if they're trying to pay an AU-sized salary it won't. This is what seems to get most companies just starting out with their first person in the US. It's going to cost a lot more and you need to make up for the lack of socialized medicine as part of the benefits. Days off are great but they don't pay the bills.
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Dec 22, 2022 18:32
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Motronic posted:Not if they're trying to pay an AU-sized salary it won't. Yeah I'm also thinking this. I assume they've normalized to market rates but even then recruiters aren't starving for a reason. It's not easy to find people.
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Dec 22, 2022 18:44
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remigious posted:I didn’t realize people used that term outside of Warcraft raids lol. Yeahhh... biobreak was the term they used at J&J while I was there.
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Dec 22, 2022 18:55
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Seconding that I've heard "bio break" at multiple jobs I've had, though thankfully it's been years since I've heard it.
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Dec 22, 2022 18:59
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It's always amusing when I deal with my coworkers who use terms like 'bio break' or similar. Then I'm in a long meeting with my uniformed clients and one of them will just stand up and go 'be right back folks, I've got to take a wicked poo poo'. Bonus points if it's a woman that says it. Why yes, I do have an identity crisis when I have a hectic, dual-hatted day.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:31
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I say brb, because it's nobody's god drat business why I'm getting up. Half the time I don't even tell them I'm leaving.
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Dec 23, 2022 00:07
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Unless it's been a hectic day in which I'll yell out Aww drat I had way too much coffee today
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Dec 23, 2022 00:10
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Renegret posted:Unless it's been a hectic day in which I'll yell out Just post one of those gifs into slack/teams, of workers flushing a drainpipe of mud.
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Dec 23, 2022 00:27
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I remember someone using the expression "comfort break" once but I think even then everyone thought it was weird.
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Dec 23, 2022 00:40
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Motronic posted:Not if they're trying to pay an AU-sized salary it won't. This is what seems to get most companies just starting out with their first person in the US. It's going to cost a lot more and you need to make up for the lack of socialized medicine as part of the benefits. Days off are great but they don't pay the bills. Yep we intend to offer medical insurance as part of the package. Thanks everyone for your insight, gonna go with the suggestion of putting up and ad and seeing what kind of applicants we get and if that's no good will resume with the recruiter.
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Dec 23, 2022 01:06
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bee posted:Yep we intend to offer medical insurance as part of the package. Thanks everyone for your insight, gonna go with the suggestion of putting up and ad and seeing what kind of applicants we get and if that's no good will resume with the recruiter. And meaningful retirement benefits (i.e. a 401(k) with matching)? And an appropriate salary? I hire and work with people all over the world. This is all complicated and just hiring a recruiter may not be enough if your company doesn't know better. This doesn't just apply to US hires. It applies to every country I've ever hired anyone in.
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Dec 23, 2022 01:13
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:I remember someone using the expression "comfort break" once but I think even then everyone thought it was weird. I want someone to announce they have to take a discomfort break. Like, walk over to their spouse and tell them their mother has to move out already, it's been a year, Kevin.
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Dec 23, 2022 01:17
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Motronic posted:This is all complicated and just hiring a recruiter may not be enough if your company doesn't know better. This doesn't just apply to US hires. It applies to every country I've ever hired anyone in. Agreed, the company hired someone in the Ukraine earlier this year and learned that lesson the hard way when things didn't work out. We're not looking to make the same mistake twice 
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Dec 23, 2022 01:51
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bee posted:Agreed, the company hired someone in the Ukraine earlier this year and learned that lesson the hard way when things didn't work out. We're not looking to make the same mistake twice Yeah, this makes sense. You (as a company) are super green when it comes to this. Asking on SA and/or a recruiter is not a substitute for the advice of in country solicitors and accountants which you should already have because surely you already have a legally incorporated business presence in the country (and STATE in the US) you want to hire someone in.
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Dec 23, 2022 02:47
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Of course it's not a substitute, I get that there's way more to hiring internationally than just finding a person to fill the position. I was just looking for insights on the recruiter's fee as it seemed excessive compared to what I've been used to here, cheers 
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Dec 23, 2022 03:36
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ThePopeOfFun posted:Perhaps my coworker has outed themselves. Appropriately corporate term though. Every corporate trainer I have ever been subjected to has used the term.
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Dec 23, 2022 07:52
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The founder’s niece just got her 4th major promotion, one for each year they’ve been here. All purely merit based, I’m sure.
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Dec 23, 2022 20:22
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Lol. Having said that I'm being encouraged to go for a job leading a new group in January which would put me at 4 promos in 5 years, so gently caress you 🙂
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Dec 23, 2022 20:34
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Here I am, decades into my career, never having been promoted except by job hopping.
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Dec 24, 2022 21:27
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Volmarias posted:Here I am, decades into my career, never having been promoted except by job hopping. Hey who turned off my monitor
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Dec 25, 2022 05:24
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Volmarias posted:Here I am, decades into my career, never having been promoted except by job hopping. Have you tried having rich parents and going to private schools?
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Dec 25, 2022 05:42
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Tibalt posted:The best dashboard you can make without busting out Tableau and scaring off Chadwick completely. How did you know my CFO's name was Chadwick?
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Dec 25, 2022 05:53
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Do I confront my direct supervisor on how I feel like there's a total lack of involvement or encouragement of us new employees' development (worded diplomatically)? I work in a petrochemical plant. 1 year 4 months in. I've interacted more with people from other departments and been taught more by them than I have by my own teammates / supervisor. I'm not an rear end in a top hat, I am very laid back and friendly, everyone says I'm a social butterfly, I'm constantly in golden retriever energy mode. My teammates have all been at the company for 10ish years together, they're as chummy with each other as can be. They've totally stonewalled us new employees. My supervisor is someone I'm meant to be comfortable with, he's meant to be the guy I can turn to for support in my projects and someone dependable. He hasn't made any attempts at nurturing any sort of relationship despite my best attempts. I seem to get on well with everyone outside of my team, but the guys within my team are all extremely stand offish. If I ask my supervisor a question, he either answers frustratedly or tells me to loving 'find out yourself'. The 'find out yourself' method was fine for the first few months, but now I realise it's just a cop out excuse for him to not actually engage with me at all. When I show enthusiasm or eagerness to learn 'may I tag along with you on this site visit?' he just scoffs, laughs, or gives some barebones response about how it won't be beneficial. Things were fine when I first joined, we'd all talk and laugh together. It immediately did a 180 when I got placed on a $10 million dollar project by our big boss. My coworker was assigned as my mentor. He started to slowly pull back from me, wouldn't chat or joke like he used to, and it eventually became so uncomfortable that I stopped even attempting to pretend like everything was okay. That was back in March, our friendship is no longer a thing, he doesn't even say good morning any more. He also did squat to help mentor me on the project and I barely managed to claw my way through it despite his efforts to have me drop the ball. I've already gone over my supervisor's head and spoke to his supervisor. It didn't go as I had hoped. I told him I wasn't expecting him to change anything or get involved, but that I just wanted to let him know how I felt in case he saw my progression slow down. I told him it felt like I was swimming against the current and that the rest of the team had put up walls and weren't supportive. He replied that they're good guys and he chose them and it must be my personal life affecting my work life and making me see things that aren't there  said supervisor went from being my number one fan to now also pulling back from me. I'm interested to see what he gives me in my performance review as I was expecting an 'outstanding' but now feel like he may rate me lower. This is the supervisor that used to sit in my office and tell me 'you're different from the others, you will go far' and would constantly big me up in front of my teammates (which I remember thinking at the time wasn't good as it sort of started the rift). Any advice? Did I already commit corporate seppuku? I really feel like my coworkers are typical lazy middle easterners and I've joined with my western mentality and I am inadvertently threatening their laid back and easy way of life. The new kid coming along and actually doing a proper 8 hours of work (instead of their 2 hours of work, 2 hours of walking about, and 4 hours of having social gatherings) and showing up all these guys who have been at the company for 8+ years (in the sense that my progress in one year is equivalent to their progress in 3 years). I'm not particularly threatened as I have the bulletproof vest of being middle eastern too, so they can't just fire me. I do feel like they will happily let me make some grievous mistake without giving me a heads up as a way to show I am not the golden boy that my boss used to think I was. This all sounds so self aggrandizing, but legitimately, the average work ethic of an English person is like some incredible superhuman feat of strength in the middle east. It also helps that my salary is 3.5x what I earned in the UK and I am so grateful for that, so of course I'm going to work my rear end off. I also love what my work entails. PS: I'm sorry, this post makes it seem like I sniff my own farts. Qubee fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 17:03
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Your boss's boss turned on you for even kind of bringing it up. Why would you get a different response from your boss?
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Dec 25, 2022 17:11
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gently caress. The naive part of my brain is all "He didn't turn on me, he's just pulled back to prevent my teammates from thinking he's playing favourites", in some mental gymnastics attempt to rationalize it. Which sort of makes sense as I really do feel like he'll give me an 'outstanding' rating during my performance review, and only a few go out each year. He invited me to his home two weekends ago, but it never ended up happening. It's all so confusing, I swear to god. I spoke to him about this on the 10th of November. I don't know what confronting my supervisor about it will do, but I feel like I've been way too non-confrontational and maybe by making him realise I'm aware of his bullshit, he'll change his tune, cause so far I've just been a pushover. If I start giving some pushback of my own, he might start worrying I'll take it further up the chain of command. I don't particularly care about this job. I care about the experience. Because the day will come where I realise I'm not happy in this country and I'll want to come back to Europe. No company worth it's weight will take me on if I don't have adequate experience. That's what terrifies me and drives me to work as hard as I can, because I really don't think I'll properly integrate here. Qubee fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 17:16
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Stop doing any work and start applying. You will never be part of their club and your mental health will suffer
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Dec 25, 2022 17:25
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I think you landed somewhere where you don't fit the work culture. This is why people really like you are first before burning out, it's useful to have someone who works differently from you but if they're too far from you, over time that gets exhausting. There's no change for this, you are very unlikely to change an entire team's culture. And their work culture isn't necessarily bad, I'm guessing they would tell a different story about you. It's just how these things are. I am not sure what you think confronting your supervisor will do. Their boss already blew you off, why would they just not do the same? I think your choices here are keep swimming upstream and see if anything changes or find somewhere else. champagne posting posted:Stop doing any work and start applying. You will never be part of their club and your mental health will suffer I think in Qubee's case this is literally "Move out of country if you leave this job", which doesn't make what you say wrong but does change the calculus.
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Dec 25, 2022 17:30
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That’s the work culture in the gulf, from what I’ve heard. Just bank the money until it’s time to bail, or your mental health can’t take it anymore. The point of diminishing return is up to you, but once you hit that two years of experience start shotgunning resumes. Or gently caress it, do it now. Labour shortage.
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Dec 25, 2022 18:06
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Qubee posted:This is the supervisor that used to sit in my office and tell me 'you're different from the others, you will go far' and would constantly big me up in front of my teammates (which I remember thinking at the time wasn't good as it sort of started the rift). I'm not trying to be rude, but direct here: isn't this the exact same situation you posted about a few months ago? I'm pretty sure the advice wasn't "go above your coworkers head to your boss, and then go above your boss's head to his boss." You seem to have beelined to that as option A. Your puzzlement at why your coworkers withdrew from you is now being mirrored in that boss now growing distant, when before he was so positive and encouraging. I have no experience in the middle eastern cultural stuff so I'm not going to touch it. But it seems clear there's a repeating pattern of people's reactions that seems based entirely on how you choose to interact with them. Now sometimes that's fine: there's plenty of people in this world I'm perfectly happy pissing off. But you seem to be confused why it's happening and don't want it to continue, so you need to really take a hard look at how you navigate your workplace environment. Even if these people suck and you're doing a better job, their social interactions with you come down to your personal behavior. As stated, either figure out what the culture requires, or just decide you're not a good fit for them and they're not a good fit for you. But either way this shouldn't be confusing. threelemmings fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 18:37
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Quote, edit, etc.
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Dec 25, 2022 18:38
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OP could make 3.5x what he did AND chill the gently caress out with some tea, and idk slam some hookah AND gain experience AND get along with coworkers, but…it seems like OP would rather work hard? Is that really the dilemma?
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Dec 25, 2022 18:51
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threelemmings posted:I'm not trying to be rude, but direct here: isn't this the exact same situation you posted about a few months ago? I'm pretty sure the advice wasn't "go above your coworkers head to your boss, and then go above your boss's head to his boss." You seem to have beelined to that as option A. Your puzzlement at why your coworkers withdrew from you is now being mirrored in that boss now growing distant, when before he was so positive and encouraging. Yeah. This is turning into goon in a well.
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Dec 25, 2022 19:32
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FrozenVent posted:That’s the work culture in the gulf, from what I’ve heard. Just bank the money until it’s time to bail, or your mental health can’t take it anymore. champagne posting posted:Stop doing any work and start applying. You will never be part of their club and your mental health will suffer Lockback posted:I think you landed somewhere where you don't fit the work culture. The only thing I've got going for me right now is this job, it's the one thing that I genuinely enjoy and get happiness from. I don't have a social circle, or any hobbies, I left all that behind in the UK. My life is literally work, home, and spending time with my two birds. I 100% agree with what you're saying, it's what my mother and auntie have also said with regards to the work culture and how I'm the exception not the rule, but I'm a 30 year old fresh grad with 1 year of experience. No place will touch me with a ten foot pole. I need to shore up experience as much as possible before jumping ship. There is nothing tying me down here at the moment except for 1) the good salary 2) the job security and 3) the fact that I'm in a good company with a strong chance of side shuffling to another Dow chemical plant in America or Germany or wherever. I've been through the job hunt before, nowhere is interested in hiring a nobody fresh grad, they all want years of experience. My goal right now is to get noticed by some Dow officials and hopefully internally transfer out. Also, realistically speaking, changing the work culture wouldn't be too hard. There's like 7 locals and then the rest of our coworkers are expats who already work hard and actually do their job. All it would take is a bit of push from upper management and the tide would easily shift. It's not like trying to change the culture of a department 30 members strong. I'd just have to snitch to our director and then live with the fact I'm openly despised instead of passive aggressively despised. Our department is doing the old management switcheroo in a few months and the guy replacing our current mid-level boss is a hardass and stickler for work ethic, so that's something I'm hoping changes the environment. ThePopeOfFun posted:OP could make 3.5x what he did AND chill the gently caress out with some tea, and idk slam some hookah AND gain experience AND get along with coworkers, but…it seems like OP would rather work hard? Is that really the dilemma? Being trapped in some laid back job where you're not learning or growing or becoming a competent engineer sounds great on paper, but it's a slow death. The day would come where I want to move out of the gulf and I'd be stuck here because I chose to sip tea and talk poo poo with coworkers for ten years instead of actually gaining any sort of experience. I will also be the first to admit that for the first 6 months, I really did try the lifestyle. It was garbage. It became very boring and frustrating. I also remember how hard it was for me to find my first job in the UK, I called upwards of 100 companies and they'd all be excited to hear I'm an engineer looking for work and would immediately become crestfallen when I said I was a fresh grad. I don't want a repeat of that. threelemmings posted:I'm not trying to be rude, but direct here: isn't this the exact same situation you posted about a few months ago? This is the same exact situation. This has been going on since March of this year and I'm becoming increasingly frustrated and pessimistic. The plan wasn't ever to go above my supervisor's head and snitch to his boss, I was just gonna keep my head down and do my work. I even gently brought up the subject to my supervisor twice in private. I asked for more interaction with the senior engineers and perhaps be given the chance to shadow someone to have them explain why they do what they do etc.. He just scoffed, said I already had my own projects and told me to ask more questions (which - if anything - is something I do too much of to begin with!) and that they were too busy. Twice he used those excuses, which I took to mean "piss off, kid". I just became extremely upset and in a moment of vulnerability with my boss, I spoke about it because he's been somewhat of a father figure and has always been supportive. I thought he was gonna give advice and guidance, but he defended their behaviour and tried to frame it in a way that was due to the whole parental divorce / being away from family issues. I'm not puzzled by my coworkers behaviour perse, I have a few reasonable assumptions as to why they've pulled back (raising a red flag on their laid back work attitude, progressing faster in a shorter period of time and exposing previous cohorts for being lazy, being doted on by management and causing resentment, yada yada). I've not interacted negatively or confrontationally with my problem coworkers at all. I've been nothing but amicable and a total pushover. Like I said, the only locals that seem to have an issue with me are my direct coworkers. Every other local from different departments all get on well with me. I don't know how else I can behave to make them at least act professionally with me. Your advice on coming to terms that it's okay to just not fit clicked in my head. I guess that's what it all boils down to. I should stop caring so much about people liking me. But the biggest issue I take to it all is that I'm purposefully being hamstrung in my progress, whether it's because my supervisor keeps giving me poo poo projects, or doesn't include me on site visits / let's me shadow him / whatever.
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Dec 25, 2022 19:59
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Qubee posted:Also, realistically speaking, changing the work culture wouldn't be too hard. The HR-type goons can correct me, but in my experience working for various companies and departments of many shapes and sizes and different levels of professional expectations: if you think changing any work culture anywhere for any reason "wouldn't be too hard" you're delusional. Those cultures exist there for a reason, and it's either because one or many people want it that way or the people that don't do not possess or are unwilling to expect the political capital to change things. You talk about snitching like it's the teacher who will do something about it, but that is assuming a level of reasonableness to higher-ups which is unlikely to match reality. This course of action seems super duper likely to be unprofitable for you. Like, even if the director is on your side, what if the boss decides to ditch you before the management split because you went over his head? Then you have to explain a termination and will have no positive references. Trust me: that is a lot harder to deal with than just making nice for a few more months. Sounds like you're at almost a year there. Just start looking now and hopefully you'll find your way out before too long.
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Dec 25, 2022 20:21
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Changing the work culture as a line level employee is impossible, just like trying to help a goon out of the well.
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Dec 25, 2022 20:32
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I'm grabbing the rope guys. Not to hang myself, but to get myself out of this well. I was delusional. Just continuing to do what I've been doing for the past 9ish months and do my tasks like a good worker bee and not divulge any more information to any supervisors, bosses, or directors. Gonna get the requisite experience and then move on. I'll let you guys know what I get on my performance review.
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Dec 25, 2022 20:35
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Qubee posted:I'm grabbing the rope guys. Not to hang myself, but to get myself out of this well. I was delusional. You've burnt this place, so you do need to move on. But think ahead: what are you going to do differently when looking for and working at the next place? Will you have learned the lesson that the kind of places you want to work in the area you are in largely function this way? What will you do with that information? Will you look for work elsewhere in the world or will you come in with an attitude of fitting in and not rocking the boat? Or something else?
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Dec 25, 2022 20:42
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Keep your head down, get as much as you can out of your job, and move on when you’re ready. Trying to change work culture from an individual contributor role is like trying to fight the tide with a Dixie cup. Earn your stripes and get poached.
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Dec 25, 2022 20:47
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I wouldn't say I've burnt this place. I imagine my coworkers / supervisor would throw me under the bus if they could, but I've made a really good impression with a whole host of people, from a bunch of different departments (the English accent is a superpower here). I feel like that is probably the main reason why I'm still where I am and haven't been transferred out to a different department like they tried doing to a guy who joined with me. I feel like they're playing the waiting game on me leaving because I confided in them back when we were friends and mentioned the fact that I wasn't happy in the country. What I'll do differently is scope out the work culture first, maybe don't stick out so sorely like I did here by making waves too much. I was so obsessed with doing a good job, networking and trying so hard to leave a good first impression that it kinda bit me in the rear end, cause it made coworkers / supervisor clam up and shun me. I should have gotten in with them first and then branched out. I shouldn't be so naive in the future and trust people right off the bat under the stupid assumption that 'we're all in the same team, surely they want the best for me'. I honestly don't think I'd have such a hard time if I were to have joined a company in Europe or the UK, because the mindset over there is to just work. In the gulf, it's really, really bad. All the work is just pawned off to the expats. The locals by and large sit on their asses and shoot hoops with the boys. Me coming in as a local and showing an iota of work ethic is what rocked the boat because it challenged their way of doing things. I'm also eligible for better positions, whereas expats are not. My number one problem was coming to this backwards country and thinking the locals think the same way that I do. They don't. Suckling on the welfare teat all your life and having literal slave labour in the form of housemaids to do all your bidding from the time you were a kid to adulthood makes for pathetically small minded and spoilt citizens. They're so used to treating Indians or Filipinos as lesser beings because simply being an Arab opens up so many doors for them even if they're undeserving or outright poo poo. My boss told me once that some managers are really bad and don't deserve their positions, but at the time when the vacancy was there, they were the best out of the bunch, and expats are rarely given managerial positions. My new motto is "earn your stripes and get poached". I love that.
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Dec 25, 2022 20:57
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Qubee posted:I wouldn't say I've burnt this place. Imagine harder. Because you absolutely have. You have permanently* damaged your potential mobility at this place. That's the simple truth. I've worked with people like this. The ones who just don't fit - for right or wrong. They go NOWHERE. Other than getting passed around departments during reorgs to people with less and less political capital or taken in as favors to gain the same. In my experience you can't recover from this inside of a company. * Unless you outlast everyone you have interacted with and the people they have interacted with
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Dec 25, 2022 21:40
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