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TwoPair posted:I'm sure they do, corporations rarely let IP rights lapse if there's even a cent to be made. But yeah I'm sure that if this theoretical sequel got made it'd be streaming (most likely on Paramount+ but maybe on Netflix) remember how doug got over to disney? Also nick hated zim but gently caress you if you think they d another net work use it.
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Dec 25, 2022 20:11
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Ups_rail posted:remember how doug got over to disney? I don’t, what prompted Disney to buy the rights to Doug anyway (and was their version of the show any good)? Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 20:23
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Ups_rail posted:remember how doug got over to disney? Yeah, Disney bought it, Nick didn't let the rights lapse. Even if they're doing nothing with it now, I have to imagine they know that Avatar is a franchise they can still capitalize on in the future.
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Dec 25, 2022 20:33
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Korra was going for a fairly older audience than The Last Airbender, which was why it got less oversight, but I think Nickelodeon is extremely uncomfortable about having an adult audience. And they sure as hell weren't going to go to bat to defend Korra having an onscreen assassination even though they didn't stop the show from doing it. I feel like Nickelodeon has a weird relationship with animation where they were trying to invest big into CGI instead of 2D, but that didn't pan out, and they still don't want to foster many new 2D shows. Their live-action shows are much more obvious about wanting to be specifically targeted at kids, because they go through the effort of structuring the shows to be starring children doing child things. I think Nickelodeon might be doing much better with the real little kid audience with their preschool shows, but I have no real idea. They're producing a lot at least. Weirdly I have a memory of a kid of Nickelodeon "seeming" more mature, but that was because it had so much gross-out humor that maybe kids older than me might've liked, but wouldn't appeal to actual adults. And of course Nickelodeon trying hard to be for kids and only for kids means that when Cartoon Network had its whole renaissance with Adventure Time, Nickelodeon couldn't follow along because they didn't want to make cartoons with extra dimensions that would appeal to adults. I think they just weren't comfortable with it on an exec level. Dawgstar posted:The whole 'benders control everything and normies are tired of it' was also an interesting road they sort of just ignored after season one. And they did waste a lot of time on sportsbending. And people with a better recollection to it say that mostly what the show pushed was wan centrism which is not the same as balance. Trying to do some kind of classism plot between benders and nonbenders was An Idea, but it doesn't really fit with what the show was previously. There wasn't some big divide between benders and nonbenders in the original show, and certainly no kind of correlation between bending and wealth. There wasn't even anything like that in Legend of Korra; Bolin and Mako are dirt poor benders and Sato and Varrick are the richest people in the show but also nonbenders. I'm not sure allegorically it makes sense either, because bending is physical labor, and not something I'd associate with the wealthy. Putting that kind of focus on the divide between benders and nonbenders also puts a lot of stress on the question of why some people are benders and some aren't, to which the show just kinda shrugs. Might even be more an allegory for bigotry over something random like anti-semitism rather than an actual grievance over something real.
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Dec 25, 2022 20:38
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PhazonLink posted:was about to mention the schedule effing, also Nick is famously anti anycartoon that isnt Spongebob or Fairyodd Parents They’ve been doing that with the prequel novels going in reverse chronological order starting from Kyoshi, though I’d imagine there’s diminishing returns on fan interest on any before Yangchen (her predecessor was mainly known as a diplomat, for example)
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Dec 25, 2022 20:45
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CGI Nick stuff "not working out"? 2012 TMNT, which was CGI, got 5 seasons and tons of support and toys.
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Dec 25, 2022 21:32
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Larryb posted:I don’t, what prompted Disney to buy the rights to Doug anyway (and was their version of the show any good)? So doug was one of the first nicktoons so the creator and nick had a contract "remember nick moving into producing its own cartoons was new at the time so I imagine thats why the contract was done the way it was" The terms were something like the creator gets to keep the show rights unless they order X number of episodes. Nick passed on ordering another season that would give them the rights to the show. Disney then picked up the show and ordered enough episode that would allow them to own it. Also the disney version sucked because they made roger rich and no one could decide if patty liked doug or not. EDIT: SlothfulCobra posted:
To comment on this. Nick passed on adventure time Adventure time IMO would later go waay to far up its own mythology. Also nick did have a show parents could watch with their kids called rocko modern life. But AT having the cultural zeigest it had being something you could watch with your kids...thats hard to do. IMO Ups_rail fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 21:34
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Ups_rail posted:Also the disney version sucked because they made roger rich and no one could decide if patty liked doug or not. Thankfully the creator has come out and clarified this quote:The animator told EW that he's already written the scene revealing whether the pair became a couple - and, like so much of Doug's story, it's based on Jinkins's real life. Wouldn't click on this link cause this website has gotten worse since I last reread this article for a laugh, but just posting for posterity https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a804147/doug-creator-finally-reveals-whether-he-ended-up-with-patti/
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Dec 25, 2022 22:12
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Complicating the matters with Doug is that Nickelodeon retained full rights to the seasons they did, which is probably why the Disney version changes so much from the very start for what are very obviously legal reasons rather than anything organically developed, also led to the funny situation that Nick was still airing reruns of their seasons throughout the Disney version's run which made it very easy to compare the two and realize that the Disney version while not terrible exactly was definitely inferior to the original in most respects(not helped by the fact that by this point the "slice of life" style of cartoon that Doug had pioneered was at it's height in popularity and representation so the Disney version had a lot of competition and most of the other shows in this genre were better than it)
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Dec 25, 2022 22:20
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Junpei posted:CGI Nick stuff "not working out"? 2012 TMNT, which was CGI, got 5 seasons and tons of support and toys. The main impression I get is that the main reason people were investing big into CGI as the future was because it would at some point become cheaper and easier, but the economies of scale never really materialized. It doesn't matter how many assets you make up top, you still need to keep making new CGI assets. Trying to restrict the cast and locations so you can just play with preexisting assets leads to a flatter show that audiences will be able to tell how you're cheaping out. So there still may be some successful CGI shows, but they're not cheaper than 2D and sometimes much more expensive. It just doesn't work out. And when the channel tries to crank out a bunch of cheap shows, it doesn't pay off. The technology didn't change the industry like it was supposed to.
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Dec 25, 2022 22:32
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There are a lot of classic Cartoon Network cartoons that were originally pitched to Nick who then passed on them, Ed Edd n Eddy and Adventure Time among them.
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Dec 26, 2022 00:23
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How did Nick wind up giving the green light to ATLA in the first place? It doesn’t really seem like the kind of show that would be in their wheelhouse all things considered
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Dec 26, 2022 00:28
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'oh poo poo anime is all the rage with the youths now we need our own anime!'
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Dec 26, 2022 00:31
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BoosterDuck posted:'oh poo poo anime is all the rage with the youths now we need our own anime!' Yeah, that sounds about right
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Dec 26, 2022 00:35
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BoosterDuck posted:'oh poo poo anime is all the rage with the youths now we need our own anime!' That, and when two guys who worked on King of the Hill come to you with a pitch for a semi-realistic human-based animation project, you listen to what they have to say before kicking them out of the room.
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Dec 26, 2022 02:29
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SlothfulCobra posted:The main impression I get is that the main reason people were investing big into CGI as the future was because it would at some point become cheaper and easier, but the economies of scale never really materialized. It doesn't matter how many assets you make up top, you still need to keep making new CGI assets. Trying to restrict the cast and locations so you can just play with preexisting assets leads to a flatter show that audiences will be able to tell how you're cheaping out. I feel like there are shows where that model does work. Like, for an example off the top of my head, The Penguins of Madagascar had a pretty core cast that was literally confined to a single location. That seems like a show where having most of the assets done once can be a huge benefit. Or Code Lyoko, where the CGI segments explicitly took place in a limited amount of zones with a heavily abridged cast.
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Dec 26, 2022 07:27
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SlothfulCobra posted:Trying to do some kind of classism plot between benders and nonbenders was An Idea, but it doesn't really fit with what the show was previously. There wasn't some big divide between benders and nonbenders in the original show, and certainly no kind of correlation between bending and wealth. There wasn't even anything like that in Legend of Korra; Bolin and Mako are dirt poor benders and Sato and Varrick are the richest people in the show but also nonbenders. I'm not sure allegorically it makes sense either, because bending is physical labor, and not something I'd associate with the wealthy. i dunno man "some people are just born with a loaded gun inside their hand" is definitely the kind of power discrepancy that leads to social differences, it felt to me a lot like ATLA just avoided having that question ever be asked. this being despite earth nation cities and the northern water tribe showing how bending was integrated into society's day to day life. the idea that the normies unable to spontaneously create new ice stairs to get wherever they're headed are essentially an underclass is pretty obvious, and i liked korra extrapolating on that to build new ethical questions about the rising new society. it felt like a natural extension of how ATLA handled complicated topics like uhhh genocide (or as a more direct comparison, aang's struggle with reconciling the important goals and ideals of pacifism with the material reality he's faced with), as well as said "this is how bending changes a society" stuff like the complicated earth-bending powered mail system. what sucked poo poo was how that and other important cutting social criticisms of the world would be left unresolved and also never commented again, like instead of being a real theme it's just complicated set dressing to make their villains more sympathetic. also importantly the fact that like irish immigrants to america were barred from many jobs (hmm...) wasn't the same as there being no poor british-descended americans but seriously looks at the air nomad way of life and tell me that being born without air bending wouldn't suck rear end there. they had child games and sports based around the assumption that air bending is your primary form of locomotion and spatial control. what do you do when you're part of the half of society without super human powers? it's an interesting question and they just drop it entirely uuuuuuugh! ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Dec 26, 2022 |
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Dec 26, 2022 09:16
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The air nomads are both a culture and a belief syst-- whoops flew too close to the 'unfortunate similarities to Judaism' sun there guys sorry.
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Dec 26, 2022 09:33
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ninjewtsu posted:i dunno man "some people are just born with a loaded gun inside their hand" is definitely the kind of power discrepancy that leads to social differences, it felt to me a lot like ATLA just avoided having that question ever be asked. this being despite earth nation cities and the northern water tribe showing how bending was integrated into society's day to day life. the idea that the normies unable to spontaneously create new ice stairs to get wherever they're headed are essentially an underclass is pretty obvious, and i liked korra extrapolating on that to build new ethical questions about the rising new society. it felt like a natural extension of how ATLA handled complicated topics like uhhh genocide (or as a more direct comparison, aang's struggle with reconciling the important goals and ideals of pacifism with the material reality he's faced with), as well as said "this is how bending changes a society" stuff like the complicated earth-bending powered mail system. what sucked poo poo was how that and other important cutting social criticisms of the world would be left unresolved and also never commented again, like instead of being a real theme it's just complicated set dressing to make their villains more sympathetic. Apparently the original Air Nomad culture was 100% composed of Air Benders
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Dec 26, 2022 10:43
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The Bee posted:I feel like there are shows where that model does work. Like, for an example off the top of my head, The Penguins of Madagascar had a pretty core cast that was literally confined to a single location. That seems like a show where having most of the assets done once can be a huge benefit. Or Code Lyoko, where the CGI segments explicitly took place in a limited amount of zones with a heavily abridged cast. I read an article back in the day about jimmy neutron, how they made the assets for the movie and just recycled them for the show. Also do air nomads have sex, like where did the kids come from?
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Dec 26, 2022 15:21
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Ups_rail posted:I read an article back in the day about jimmy neutron, how they made the assets for the movie and just recycled them for the show. We saw Aang as a baby and know both he and Tenzin had kids so I assume celibacy was not an aspect of Air Nomad culture (though I don’t really remember seeing any girls in Aang’s flashbacks), which makes sense since airbending was apparently exclusive to their tribe up until Korra Season 3
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Dec 26, 2022 15:47
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Yeah, the deal with the Air Nomads was that they believed in communal upbringing of the children, to the extent that they might not even know who their actual parents were
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Dec 26, 2022 16:49
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Off the subject, not sure how legit this is but IMDB apparently has a complete episode list for Molly McGee Season 2 despite us still not having a release date beyond “2023”: https://imdb.com/title/tt10684374/episodes/?season=2
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Dec 26, 2022 19:34
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drrockso20 posted:Apparently the original Air Nomad culture was 100% composed of Air Benders How? ...did they find a way to breed out the normies or were nonbenders disposed of? gently caress
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Dec 26, 2022 20:08
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ninjewtsu posted:How? I believe you can file that under "things the writers didn't really think about that much". The answer is "hey shut up enjoy the story"
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Dec 26, 2022 20:28
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This is one of those weird things that wasn't really thought through because the worldbuilding on the base premise is actually kinda shallow, which wasn't necessarily a bad thing, because not going into exposition at length as to what bending is and where it comes from helped to make the fantasy aspect much more naturalistic and "mundane". It's just that when you have only shallowly defined these things, they can't support the weight when you make it into the lynchpin of some kind of real-world political allegory. The only real detail is that the ability to bend is explicitly not genetic beyond being separated by the same 4 nations divide as the people of the world.
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Dec 26, 2022 20:32
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Yeah, it’s kind of weird in retrospect that the 4 nations explicitly only produce either non benders or benders attuned to said nation’s particular element
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Dec 26, 2022 20:36
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The show itself never really spells this out, but iirc the idea is that the odds of any given individual being a bender are tied to how to connected they are to the spirits, and the Air Nomads, as an incredibly spiritual society, did in fact manage a 100% bending rate. Korra sort of bears this out in the sense that having spirits just, like, out and about in the world apparently leads to people spontaneously developing airbending.
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Dec 26, 2022 20:38
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SlothfulCobra posted:It's just that when you have only shallowly defined these things, they can't support the weight when you make it into the lynchpin of some kind of real-world political allegory. ...like genocide?
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Dec 26, 2022 20:47
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I vaguely remember some info that earthbenders are the most numerous benders in the world just on virtue of the Earth Kingdom's huge population, but they have the lowest ratio of benders to nonbenders of the four nations.
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Dec 26, 2022 21:27
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The episode where Kyoshi was anti-pan-nationalism movements was weird but neat.
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Dec 26, 2022 22:42
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Larryb posted:We saw Aang as a baby and know both he and Tenzin had kids so I assume celibacy was not an aspect of Air Nomad culture (though I don’t really remember seeing any girls in Aang’s flashbacks) There were no girls in Aang's flashbacks because the air temples were sex-segregated, two of them were male and two were female. I got the impression they were largely where children were raised and the monks who dedicated themselves to spiritual and bending study lived, but other adult nomads mostly just floated around nomadically, with the temples as home bases they could return to if in need. They were all benders as a result of their high spirituality and also the low population almost certainly helped. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Dec 27, 2022 |
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Dec 27, 2022 13:19
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I think some of the plot holes in avatar can be over looked like how air benders are cloned from a unseen spirit queen or like those monks from lexxx. I mean come on when Aang got frozen all those ice crystal would have destroyed his cells!
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Dec 27, 2022 15:37
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The Avatar spirit filled them with antifreeze
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Dec 27, 2022 16:02
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Appa kept him warm
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Dec 27, 2022 16:09
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Ups_rail posted:I think some of the plot holes in avatar can be over looked like how air benders are cloned from a unseen spirit queen or like those monks from lexxx. This is canonically why he died so young in the backstory of Korra.
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Dec 27, 2022 18:12
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I thought he was in the Avatar State while in the bubble the whole time and just kind of burned out early.
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Dec 27, 2022 18:27
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Open Source Idiom posted:Sidebar: what's a western show that does mech fights well? Transformers Beast Wars? (Never seen it, but always meant to check it out because of its cult status). 
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Dec 27, 2022 19:22
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SlothfulCobra posted:The main impression I get is that the main reason people were investing big into CGI as the future was because it would at some point become cheaper and easier, but the economies of scale never really materialized. It doesn't matter how many assets you make up top, you still need to keep making new CGI assets. Trying to restrict the cast and locations so you can just play with preexisting assets leads to a flatter show that audiences will be able to tell how you're cheaping out. Even the “good” 3D shows look worse than most bargain bin Canadian 2D shows imo (with a handful of notable exceptions). Doing 3D animation *well* requires a ton of texture/lighting/animation touch ups to make things more fluid/etc which is all way more time/labor intensive than you’d think and frankly most productions don’t have the budget for that kind of polish. So yeah, really not shocked that the move to 3D isn’t working out.
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Dec 27, 2022 23:09
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The answer for why/how all air nomads were benders is in the prequel stuff. And yeah, it's that their pure and spiritual society and way of living made it so that they were closer to the spirits, and thus all of their children were born benders. Bending isn't just genetic, it's spiritual, mystical. Just having Good Genes doesn't mean you're gonna be a bender. And having no benders in the last few generations doesn't mean you wont be one either.
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Dec 28, 2022 03:07
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