[Ukraine] Missing in Action: Western Minds

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Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

why do russian war aficionados hate moonscapes?

:69snypa:

# ? Dec 27, 2022 09:22

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# ? May 23, 2024 12:27

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Gripweed posted:

So this is at best on par with Russia thinking supporting Texas and California separatist organizations will actually produce anything?

hey everybody look at this reality denying trumper rear end in a top hat who thinks putin isnt interfering with our elections!

# ? Dec 27, 2022 09:28

GlassElephant: Oct 25, 2009; Schwere Panzerabteilung 502
Discovered they were Glass Elephants, 27 APR 45

Lostconfused posted:

Wagner got a ton of exposure over the past year.

Like I assume these guys are from Wagner, but there's just two dudes showing up in someone's living room to sit around for two hours and talk about how they went to war https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60EDhswNPdA

I dunno what the "Mercenary Community" thing is supposed to be about since Reverse Side of the Medal is using it too, and they see to have a lot of attachment to wagner guys too.

Edit: Girkin was also apparently trying to organize his battalion or regiment or whatever through some PMC thing before he got kicked out. At least that's what he claims.

Grey Zone is the Reverse Side of the Medal. Or to be more accurate, the Grey Zone telegram channel used to be called Reverse Side of the Medal, then this April they moved that branding to a new channel and renamed themselves Grey Zone (which had been their telegram short url).

Another artillery take:

Два майора posted:

Some Considerations on the Sufficiency of Shells in the Russian Armed Forces

Respected Telegram channels have repeatedly raised the topic of shell starvation in the Russian Armed Forces. In particular, figures were cited that in the summer our units were releasing up to 60,000 shells per day along the entire front line, which was one of the reasons for their rapid consumption.

In addition, some decisions by high military officials to store artillery ammunition at a distance from the units operating on the front line, but necessarily in one place and within range of enemy UAVs and MLRS, also resulted in the loss of a significant portion of Soviet supplies.

Currently there are reports that the units are receiving 152 mm shells of 2022, the quality of which raises questions due to the large number of defects compared to the old batches.

At the same time, the artillerymen grumble about the lack of them. However, an artillerist, as the front-line officers themselves say, likes to shoot the enemy a lot. It gets into a kind of rush. Especially it's good when not high-precision ammunition is allowed to spend up to 300 shells to defeat 1 enemy tank at a great distance (now we will be corrected and clarified, but we tried to convey the meaning of the words of the front-line officers).

By the way, if a crew is able to hit/destroy an enemy tank at long range with less than 20 shells, the crew is considered experienced and very accurate.

The solution to this situation should be the production of high-precision projectiles, UAVs and other technical solutions. Because the tactic of turning the battlefield into a moonscape is no longer justified, as shown by the advance of the front line on the hottest fronts.

Diversification of means of destruction and increasing their accuracy and range are required.

For example, the enemy is releasing 6-7 times less ammunition due to the difference in the number of artillery. However, the accuracy and range of modern NATO 155 mm shells are higher than those of most of ours.

The Russian Armed Forces have high-precision ammunition. But they need to produce them many times more.

Two Maj.

Translated with https://www.deepl.com/Translator (free version)

_{(from t.me/dva_majors/7233, via tgsa)}

Frosted Flake, how many shells would you need to hit a tank sized target (observed, at long range)?

# ? Dec 27, 2022 09:29

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

still mad at majorian for explicitly making this thread the war thread when the old thread was explicitly the former soviet bloc megathread i expressed my displeasure by not posting in here an act which im sure brought great pain and suffering to everyone which is why i had to stop

# ? Dec 27, 2022 09:31

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Some Guy TT posted:

still mad at majorian for explicitly making this thread the war thread when the old thread was explicitly the former soviet bloc megathread i expressed my displeasure by not posting in here an act which im sure brought great pain and suffering to everyone which is why i had to stop

I thought they made this to stop us making GBS threads up the Eurasia thread

# ? Dec 27, 2022 09:38

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

the USSR was an asiatic empire and should be allowed in the eurasian thread.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 09:41

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Endman posted:

I thought they made this to stop us making GBS threads up the Eurasia thread

that was the original reason yes so originally it was the war thread but i asked nicely for the scope to be expanded so we could discuss things unrelated to the war too

there is of course no reason why we cant do that and in fact people do that all time like frosted flakes effortposts on galicia im just being a silly pedant because the word "war" is in the thread title

# ? Dec 27, 2022 09:43

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

please do. we already have mlmp clones pooping right now so your soviet effortposts will be an improvement.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 09:45

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

did i miss something? there's a bunch of people probated for a week but their rapsheet doesn't have anything? like lobster shirt, KirbyKhan, 16butt, mawarannahr, etc

# ? Dec 27, 2022 10:00

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Tankbuster posted:

please do. we already have mlmp clones pooping right now so your soviet effortposts will be an improvement.

i think youre confusing me with someone else when i say i want to make posts about russian things unrelated to the war im referring to stuff like this clip from the russian dubbed version of batman the animated series

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiENxjE_xEU

# ? Dec 27, 2022 10:02

break-up breakdown: Mar 6, 2010

crepeface posted:

did i miss something? there's a bunch of people probated for a week but their rapsheet doesn't have anything? like lobster shirt, KirbyKhan, 16butt, mawarannahr, etc

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4020454

# ? Dec 27, 2022 10:09

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Wagner The Dog

# ? Dec 27, 2022 10:19

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

https://twitter.com/joelw_762/status/1600103562205270016

# ? Dec 27, 2022 11:09

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Frosted Flake posted:

lol I don't know how much of a deep dive you want to go on, but part of this is because Austria-Hungary wanted Galicia to industrialize, which meant creating an urban intelligentsia out of the local peasants, and so they kind of invented a lot of this bullshit and it kind of hosed over the whole world.

The Idea of Galicia: History and Fantasy in Habsburg Political Culture

Galicia was created at the first partition of Poland in 1772 and disappeared in 1918. Yet, in slightly over a century, the idea of Galicia came to have meaning for both the peoples who lived there and the Habsburg government that ruled it. Indeed, its memory continues to exercise a powerful fascination for those who live in its former territories and for the descendants of those who emigrated out of Galicia.

The idea of Galicia was largely produced by the cultures of two cities, Lviv and Cracow. Making use of travelers' accounts, newspaper reports, and literary works, Wolff engages such figures as Emperor Joseph II, Metternich, Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, Ivan Franko, Stanisław Wyspiański, Tadeusz "Boy" Żeleński, Isaac Babel, Martin Buber, and Bruno Schulz. He shows the exceptional importance of provincial space as a site for the evolution of cultural meanings and identities, and analyzes the province as the framework for non-national and multi-national understandings of empire in European history.

https://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=17266

Pretty much everything you said, and mentioned in that article, was the desired result but instead of being the most loyal, most valiant defenders of Austria, Kaiserlich und K�niglich, the Katholisches Reich, it�s been hollowed out and turned into psychotic blood and soil nationalism.

It does kind of make them the perfect proxies, so Danke, �sterreich. Gott segne und beh�te den ~~Kaiser~~ white race and turbocapitalism, I guess.

Meanwhile Austria not even part of NATO just trying to mind their own business. Somehow this country keeps creating nazis though very odd.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 12:00

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/joelw_762/status/1600384650270035973

this loving moron thinks My Lai was the one atrocity of that nature that the US ever committed in Vietnam

# ? Dec 27, 2022 12:01

Zodium: Jun 19, 2004

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/joelw_762/status/1600384650270035973

this loving moron thinks My Lai was the one atrocity of that nature that the US ever committed in Vietnam

if the US systematically committed atrocities, I would have heard about it through the free press.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 12:09

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

"we should listen to indigenous Ukrainian voices about the war"

https://twitter.com/joelw_762/status/1607309469838368768

"no... not THAT Ukrainian voice!"

# ? Dec 27, 2022 12:15

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

that guy�s avatar has huge �I wish I was in the CIA� energy

# ? Dec 27, 2022 12:26

ModernMajorGeneral: Jun 25, 2010

gradenko_2000 posted:

"we should listen to indigenous Ukrainian voices about the war"

https://twitter.com/joelw_762/status/1607309469838368768

"no... not THAT Ukrainian voice!"

The follow up tweets are even better.

https://twitter.com/joelw_762/status/1607309472363413510?s=20&t=gogVblfzTPrL8QPtRqjW2g

https://twitter.com/joelw_762/status/1607312897989918726?s=20&t=gogVblfzTPrL8QPtRqjW2g

https://twitter.com/joelw_762/status/1607312897989918726?s=20&t=gogVblfzTPrL8QPtRqjW2g

'Ok, Ishchenko is a reasonable person who makes an accurate point but he should be disregarded because lots of people disagree with him'

# ? Dec 27, 2022 12:42

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

# ? Dec 27, 2022 13:46

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Frosted Flake posted:

This plus those groups will suddenly have a bunch of weapons as they cry out for freedom.

And just maybe this is why China took very seriously their anti-terror crackdown in Xinjiang when a small minority of radicalized Uighurs started bombing poo poo right as the US had a presence in Afghanistan next door and started cranking up the opium production (because everyone loves following the old playbooks).

# ? Dec 27, 2022 13:56

BONGHITZ: Jan 1, 1970

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2197370/Reversed_Front/

# ? Dec 27, 2022 14:17

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Some Guy TT posted:

i think youre confusing me with someone else when i say i want to make posts about russian things unrelated to the war im referring to stuff like this clip from the russian dubbed version of batman the animated series

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiENxjE_xEU

I am still going to make posts about russian stuff in the asia thread because annoying people don't show up there unless they want to talk about genocide specifically.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 15:31

evilmiera: Dec 14, 2009; Status: Ravenously Rambunctious

GlassElephant posted:

Grey Zone is the Reverse Side of the Medal. Or to be more accurate, the Grey Zone telegram channel used to be called Reverse Side of the Medal, then this April they moved that branding to a new channel and renamed themselves Grey Zone (which had been their telegram short url).

Another artillery take:

_{(from t.me/dva_majors/7233, via tgsa)}

Frosted Flake, how many shells would you need to hit a tank sized target (observed, at long range)?

Do not become addicted to artillery shells. They will take hold of you and you will resent their absence.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 15:39

Seatbelts: Mar 29, 2010

Lostconfused posted:

https://twitter.com/maxfras/status/1604405219667869696

https://twitter.com/KharkivHelp/status/1607431988822134784

Both sides employing powers of the Warp is a horrifying escalation

# ? Dec 27, 2022 16:23

lobotomy molo: May 7, 2007; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

evilmiera posted:

Do not become addicted to artillery shells. They will take hold of you and you will resent their absence.

good advice, you should pass it along to zelensky

quote:

For example, the enemy is releasing 6-7 times less ammunition due to the difference in the number of artillery.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 16:35

Organ Fiend: May 21, 2007; custom title

DancingShade posted:

The Star League has outlived its purpose and is no more. Time for the succession wars.

Zelensky and Ukraine as Stefan Amaris and the Rim Worlds Republic was not the plot twist I was expecting, but I'm here for it.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 16:38

ughhhh: Oct 17, 2012

Ardennes posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkhCZmo_z8U

Here is the full video, he mentions that the Ukrainians are having to learn to "grap the Russians by the belt".

The aesthetic of these guys is all divorced dad energy. I bet they call themselves warrior scholars.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 16:42

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

lobotomy molo posted:

good advice, you should pass it along to zelensky

Well if Russians are down to twenty thousand per day from sixty thousand then Ukrainians need like what maybe three thousand high precision shells per day? I assume all of NATO should be able to handle that right?

# ? Dec 27, 2022 16:57

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Need a spreadsheet to keep track of all the shells, probations, and relative ratios of each by phase and faction.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 17:15

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

GlassElephant posted:

Frosted Flake, how many shells would you need to hit a tank sized target (observed, at long range)?

Other than "it depends", 6-24 ideally. Realistically, this is why DPICM was developed, as artillery fragments can damage AFVs in a variety of ways short of a direct hit, but usually requires a direct hit to kill.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 17:18

iCe-CuBe.: Jun 9, 2011

Epic Rap Battles of History
Zelensky
VERSUS
Putleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer
BEGIN

# ? Dec 27, 2022 17:22

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

part of why it�s handy to be precise. Sometimes targets start to move when fired upon.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 17:36

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

mlmp08 posted:

part of why it�s handy to be precise. Sometimes targets start to move when fired upon.

Sure, but unlike Copperhead, Excalibur uses fixed GPS coordinates anyways, so the point is kind of kind of moot.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 17:45

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

very precisely striking where the tank was a couple of minutes ago

# ? Dec 27, 2022 17:48

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Ukraine has a fighting chance in 2023: But it is still not clear how the war will play out

Nobody can say when Russia�s invasion of Ukraine will end�or how. But months of fighting have stamped five sets of tracks into the Ukrainian earth and, one day, these will converge on peace. Even allowing for the fortunes of war, the best gauge of the future is to trace their paths.

The first track is Ukraine�s sustained advantage on the battlefield. Russia has more than three times the population of its neighbour and is trying hard to destroy infrastructure in Ukraine and degrade it as a functioning state, but Vladimir Putin will struggle to train, equip and supply an army capable of occupying the four Ukrainian provinces he has annexed. The more he presses reluctant Russians into combat, the more dead bodies he will have to account for and the more he will struggle.

(Paywall)

# ? Dec 27, 2022 17:52

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://apnews.com/article/nato-serbia-kosovo-77b7425612017e3958b3bf14896ccdf1

quote:

PRISTINA, Kosovo (AP) — Serbia on Monday placed its security troops on the border with Kosovo on “the full state of combat readiness,” ignoring NATO’s calls for calming down of tensions between the two wartime Balkan foes.

Serbia’s Interior Minister Bratislav Gasic said he “ordered the full combat readiness” of police and other security units and that they be placed under the command of the army chief of staff according to “their operational plan.”

He said in a statement that he acted on the orders of Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic so that “all measures be taken to protect the Serbian people in Kosovo.”

https://apnews.com/article/nato-serbia-kosovo-aleksandar-vucic-e062532a7ec35d558b3d72fa6fb20c0d

quote:

MITROVICA, Kosovo (AP) — Serbs on Tuesday erected more roadblocks in northern Kosovo and defied international demands to remove those placed earlier, a day after Serbia put its troops near the border on a high level of combat readiness.

The new barriers, made of heavily loaded trucks, were put up overnight in Mitrovica, a northern Kosovo town divided between Kosovo Serbs and ethnic Albanians, who represent the majority in Kosovo as a whole.

It was the first time since the recent crisis started that Serbs have blocked streets in one of the main towns. Until now, barricades had been set on roads leading to the Kosovo-Serbia border.

Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic has said he ordered the army’s highest state of alert to “protect our people (in Kosovo) and preserve Serbia.”

# ? Dec 27, 2022 18:09

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Frosted Flake posted:

Sure, but unlike Copperhead, Excalibur uses fixed GPS coordinates anyways, so the point is kind of kind of moot.

I presumed the 6-24 tounds was based on a stationary tank, not one moving at speed. so a different precise shot is pretty good for that.

# ? Dec 27, 2022 18:13

GlassElephant: Oct 25, 2009; Schwere Panzerabteilung 502
Discovered they were Glass Elephants, 27 APR 45

Frosted Flake posted:

Ukraine has a fighting chance in 2023: But it is still not clear how the war will play out

Nobody can say when Russia�s invasion of Ukraine will end�or how. But months of fighting have stamped five sets of tracks into the Ukrainian earth and, one day, these will converge on peace. Even allowing for the fortunes of war, the best gauge of the future is to trace their paths.

The first track is Ukraine�s sustained advantage on the battlefield. Russia has more than three times the population of its neighbour and is trying hard to destroy infrastructure in Ukraine and degrade it as a functioning state, but Vladimir Putin will struggle to train, equip and supply an army capable of occupying the four Ukrainian provinces he has annexed. The more he presses reluctant Russians into combat, the more dead bodies he will have to account for and the more he will struggle.

(Paywall)

https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

quote:

By contrast, Ukraine is well placed to muster committed troops and tactically shrewd officers, supplied with arms and intelligence by NATO countries. Perhaps, after wearing down Russian defensive positions in the south and in the Donbas region, Ukrainian forces will repeat the lightning-fast seizure of occupied territory in the east and south that they managed in September and October. But even if they cannot, they should be able to continue their slow advance.

From a Ukrainian point of view, it is vital that they do. On its own, momentum will not win the war, but it is the foundation for everything else, including the second track: steadfast Western support for Ukraine�s efforts. Mr Putin calculated that the West would abandon Ukraine, or at least force it to settle for an unequal peace. He has therefore tried to deal with battlefield reverses by cutting off gas supplies to Europe and warning of nuclear war.

These threats have backfired, by persuading Western governments that humouring Mr Putin would be dangerous. Giving in to the Kremlin today, as in 2014 when Russia first attacked Ukraine, would only set the stage for the next conflict. Western arms will therefore continue to flow eastward and Russian gas will never again flow westward in large amounts. This winter will be hard�and the next could be even worse, especially if Chinese demand for energy revives, pushing up the price of oil and gas. Yet, for as long as Ukraine is advancing on the battlefield, European resolve will last.

The third track involves the rest of the world. China continues to support Russia in a hands-off way. India and many developing countries have stood back, irritated by demands that they sign up to the West�s agenda when the West all too often ignores their own. However, even here Mr Putin is losing support. He received a lukewarm reception from his fellow leaders at the summit of the Shanghai Co-operation Organisation in September. In October, in a vote in the UN General Assembly on the Russian annexation, Mr Putin suffered his biggest defeat since the invasion.

These first three tracks are converging on the fourth: growing international pressure to end the fighting. In these straitened times, the war is hard to afford. The OECD, a club of mostly rich countries, estimates that it will cost $2.8trn in 2023. Shortages of arms in the West will become an increasing concern. Expect, therefore, lots of talk in 2023 about the scenarios for peace.

The trouble is that neither the Russians nor the Ukrainians are yet ready to lay down their arms. Mr Putin will either want to fight on, betting that he can mount an offensive and regain the momentum, or freeze the conflict, with the aim of preventing Ukraine from becoming a prosperous and peaceful European democracy. Volodymyr Zelensky, Ukraine�s president, flushed with success, has vowed to take back all the territory his country has lost since 2014. Western countries insist Ukraine alone should decide when to negotiate. In reality, though, they are the ones paying for the war. At some point they will apply pressure.

The war ends in Moscow
The timing of that moment will probably be determined by the fifth and most uncertain track. For peace to be stable, something must change in Moscow. Its nuclear weapons mean that a surrender cannot be imposed on the Kremlin by force of arms. Instead Russians will have to grasp the truth that Mr Putin is squandering their lives in a futile, unwinnable war.

Mr Putin could resort to chemical or nuclear weapons�though even that would not clear the path to a Russian victory. More likely he will cut his losses in a bid to cling to power, or be abandoned by the elites. The year will begin with Mr Putin hoping for something to turn up: momentum to shift on the battlefield, Chinese military aid, the splintering of European unity or the prospect of a re-elected Donald Trump abandoning Ukraine. Mr Putin knows anything is possible in war. But he must also know that the tide is against him.

GlassElephant has issued a correction as of 18:19 on Dec 27, 2022

# ? Dec 27, 2022 18:15

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# ? May 23, 2024 12:27

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

put a radar or something on the tip of the artillery shell which automatically guides the shells on to the tanks

i will sell these shell to you for 5 million dollar

# ? Dec 27, 2022 18:25

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] Missing in Action: Western Minds

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