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grieving for Gandalf posted:this movie, like the first, is technically very nice-looking but so, so boring. when they stop for a beat at the end and Quarritch goes, "you know you have to stop me now or I'm gonna keep coming" I almost groaned when Jakesully goes "yeah you're right let's do more fighting" Ok, I mean reading this thread, I get the vibe it's generally well loved, and I sure as poo poo appreciate that the effort that's gone into making it has created something amazing. But, yeah. I thought it was the worst film I've ever seen. I mean, that's an incredible thing to say, right? That's such hyperbole. Except, I've never actually wanted to leave a cinema as much before. The only other time I came close was Christmas with the Kranks. I didn't, because I'm a loser with nothing better to do with my time, but actually right at the start when the train exploded I just has this hugely overwhelming sensation of boredom, like as if there was this monumental ask laid before me, to care about this utter garbage unfolding. I think it's because I don't find the concept of 'family' sacrosanct at all, and because I'm not American, and because I find the phrase 'A father protects, it what gives him meaning' rankles a little, but I was NOT rooting for these characters. At all. So when it just immediately throws them into the nonsense of full-bore CGI kabooms right from the off, my brain and my heart, just gave in. I didn't like that all Jake did was 'Shout at his sons, win all the fights'. The only growth he made was that by the end, because he was literally FORCED under penalty of death, he finally witnessed that his son hadn't been lying all along and actually was worth a drat. The sons growth was... I mean, what? He just was in the right from basically the start and at the end, I guess, now his dad saw he was in the right? The mum went crazy because of course, women-be-crazy, am I right? (I mean I don't think that for one second but that seemed to be the message? I dunno, what was her characterisation?) It sort of just about passes the Bechdel test, about 7/10ths of the way through, with a little throwaway exchange that was possibly there just to pass. That's not really a huge make or break for me, but it seems like a movie with this kind of message of inclusivity and anti-toxic masculinity should probably spend more time being inclusive and less time getting a boner over how cool whaling is. (Although whaling is bad, and here's Germain Clement to briefly say 'Whaling is bad you guys' for some reason). It really tries to have it's cake and eat it too on the whole 'guns are bad' / 'guns and violence is fuckin awesome' front. I especially enjoyed a lengthy sequence of explosions and violence with people 'just' narrowly getting away, or getting flung into the ocean etc, with the one single dismemberment that the rating allowed. And then it cuts to Mowgli reenacting irreversible and just utterly caving someones skull in with a fire hydrant. (Bro). !Klams fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Dec 29, 2022 |
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Dec 29, 2022 00:34
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!Klams posted:Ok, I mean reading this thread, I get the vibe it's generally well loved, and I sure as poo poo appreciate that the effort that's gone into making it has created something amazing. 
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Dec 29, 2022 00:37
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Feldegast42 posted:Yeah a lot of classic kids animation has characters that are voiced by older ladies. Believe it.
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Dec 29, 2022 00:39
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!Klams posted:But, yeah. I thought it was the worst film I've ever seen bro. I get that the "bro" thing is a shot at Spider but it makes your posts extremely irritating to read. And I'm a guy who grew up in SoCal and actually was friends with a real beach bum surfer who literally came in to work from the beach 3 - 4 days a week, weather permitting. It doesn't work in print, much like a lot of dialectical writing.
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Dec 29, 2022 00:43
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!Klams posted:But, yeah. I thought it was the worst film I've ever seen bro. My goon in christ, please watch more movies.
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Dec 29, 2022 00:46
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teagone posted:My goon in christ, please watch more movies. I feel like that's maybe wrong, it was just the film I least enjoyed watching at the cinema? That doesn't feel right either, because it's so clearly amazing looking. I dunno, I just didn't have any fun with it at all. Christmas with the Kranks, and the American remake of Dark Water are the only other two times where I've been painfully aware I was in a cinema, waiting for it to finish. Scanning the audience, there were a ton of people just on their phones during Avatar 2 as well, which is pretty much unheard of at my local Odeon. Possibly it was just a bad atmosphere, maybe watching it again it would be better, but I'm not going to. I'll take some of the 'bros' out, because, yeah, that was annoying as gently caress in the movie, so why wouldn't it be in my post. (Which was the point, but I don't actually want to annoy folks).
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Dec 29, 2022 00:50
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!Klams posted:I'll take some of the 'bros' out, because, yeah, that was annoying as gently caress in the movie, so why wouldn't it be in my post. Because they're two different mediums, and it didn't bother me at all in the movies. It helps you understand Spider's mindset and character.
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Dec 29, 2022 00:51
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So when do we have the discussion about the forest Na'vi being black/indigenous-coded and the sea people Na'vi being Maori-coded, yet the cast is almost completely the whitest loving actors imaginable?
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Dec 29, 2022 01:06
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Jake’s white, a couple of jake’s kids are white, and there’s Kate Winslet, whom JC obviously likes. I think that’s it as far as white Navi actors.
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Dec 29, 2022 01:09
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The guy playing Tonawari is an actual Maori and he's even a champion Haka performer, and the movie is made in New Zealand, so those people complaining about Kate Winslet being white are literally complaining that there's too many interracial couples in their blue space alien movie. This is on the level of being mad about Uhura kissing Captain Kirk. Spider isn't the only one saying "bro" and "cuz", by the way. Keep in mind this is supposed to be Na'vi language rendered in English. It's how the youngsters talk.
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Dec 29, 2022 01:41
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!Klams posted:Ok, I mean reading this thread, I get the vibe it's generally well loved, and I sure as poo poo appreciate that the effort that's gone into making it has created something amazing. Get a load of this guy cam
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Dec 29, 2022 01:46
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If this is the worst movie you ever seen you’re gonna have to name the rest of the movies you saw this year lil bro
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Dec 29, 2022 01:48
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Mordiceius posted:So when do we have the discussion about the forest Na'vi being black/indigenous-coded and the sea people Na'vi being Maori-coded, yet the cast is almost completely the whitest loving actors imaginable? We can have this discussion now if you want. If you wanna talk explicitly about the Na'vi characters, we have: Neytiri (Zoe Saldana is Dominican/Puerto Rican), Tuktirey (Trinity Bliss is half Chinese), Mo'at (CCH Pounder is Guyanese), Tonowari (Cliff Curtis is Maori), Tsireya (Bailey Bass is half African American), Aonung (Filip Geljo is Filipino), and Rotxo (Duane Evans Jr. is Maori). I was refresingly surprised to find out that Aonung -- Tonowari's son -- is played by a Filipino actor because I myself am Filipino. Pretty cool! And then we have Jake, Neteyam, Lo'ak, Kiri, Ronal, Quaritch, and Wainfleet who are played by white actors. Looks like a pretty even split down the main/supporting cast. We can go down the tertiary cast list too, I'm sure there are plenty more POC who have played Na'vi characters. teagone fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Dec 29, 2022 |
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Dec 29, 2022 02:09
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!Klams posted:Ok, I mean reading this thread, I get the vibe it's generally well loved, and I sure as poo poo appreciate that the effort that's gone into making it has created something amazing. You are like a baby. Making noise. Don't know what to do
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Dec 29, 2022 02:14
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We cannot teach !Klams to see.
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Dec 29, 2022 02:15
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Lol at saying the movie showed how cool whaling is.
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Dec 29, 2022 02:23
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Vir posted:The guy playing Tonawari is an actual Maori and he's even a champion Haka performer, and the movie is made in New Zealand, so those people complaining about Kate Winslet being white are literally complaining that there's too many interracial couples in their blue space alien movie. This is on the level of being mad about Uhura kissing Captain Kirk. Eh, that comparison doesn't work at all. It's not an interracial marriage, it's two ocean Na'vi with Maori coding, but only one is played by a Maori and the other is caucasian. So if Kirk was in... eh, not it's not as bad as blackface since we're comparing it to minority-influenced fictional races. Uh, if Nichelle Nichols and William Shatner had both been costumed as TNG-era Klingon characters and kissed? I dunno it's a weird comparison and I don't think it can be saved.
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Dec 29, 2022 02:36
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"There is no such thing as an anti-whaling film" - François Truffaut
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Dec 29, 2022 02:37
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checkplease posted:Lol at saying the movie showed how cool whaling is. The movie: whaling is bad and horribly cruel Me: wow cool crab robot subs!!!
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Dec 29, 2022 02:41
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What is it about the movie forum that attracts these weirdos.
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Dec 29, 2022 02:44
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There's the old Gundam joke, but I always thought the shots taken at the nerds kind of miss a lesson for storytellers. Making the instrument of war really cool is gonna detract from your "war is bad" message, it's not all on the nerds. I like the scene in question, but yeah maybe the focus on really clever engineering solutions for the hunt was a bit heavy for the intended message. The fact that Cameron cut 10 minutes of gun focus from the movie shortly before release makes me think he's clued into this. As Truffaut's war quote indicates, it's a hard problem to solve. Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Dec 29, 2022 |
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Dec 29, 2022 02:51
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I loving laughed out loud hard when those robocrabs showed up and moved exactly how they should. God damnit screw the sequels and let the God of War devs make a game! There should also be a VR game already considering Jim uses VR type poo poo to stage everything anyway.
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Dec 29, 2022 03:00
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Also, Jake and Sigourney, etc. don't count as they are specifically white people that put on blackface to try to fit in annoying everyone, and had to prove themselves to get invited to the cookout. Avatars aren't the same as Navi and dont really count.
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Dec 29, 2022 03:22
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Darko posted:Also, Jake and Sigourney, etc. don't count as they are specifically white people that put on blackface to try to fit in annoying everyone, and had to prove themselves to get invited to the cookout. Avatars aren't the same as Navi and dont really count. Yeah. They have "demon blood". I feel like that isn't too far off from white devil. It doesn't map 1:1 to the race of the actors playing the characters, but the allusion is clear.
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Dec 29, 2022 03:37
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[watches only avatar and avatar 2] well i guess avatar 2 is the worst movie ever made
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Dec 29, 2022 03:40
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stratdax posted:Yeah. They have "demon blood". I feel like that isn't too far off from white devil. It doesn't map 1:1 to the race of the actors playing the characters, but the allusion is clear. Kate Winslett is the only one who messes it up from what I recall. In other cases it's Jake's kids or Sigourneys rebirth whatever.
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Dec 29, 2022 03:52
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When was Kate Winslett's record-breaking underwater scene in the film?
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Dec 29, 2022 03:58
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Doctor Spaceman posted:When was Kate Winslett's record-breaking underwater scene in the film? I feel like she had a lot cut from the movie, the photograph they used in all those articles about her free diving isnt in the movie. Theres very little scenes with her fully underwater so I'm not sure why she had to go quite that extreme.
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Dec 29, 2022 04:01
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I wasn't sure if I'd missed something or if it was something they filmed for Avatar 3.
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Dec 29, 2022 04:05
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Nuts and Gum posted:I loving laughed out loud hard when those robocrabs showed up and moved exactly how they should. It really sucks that the game license went to UbiSoft of all devs. God it's gonna be so janky.
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Dec 29, 2022 04:08
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Doctor Spaceman posted:When was Kate Winslett's record-breaking underwater scene in the film? The record-breaking breath hold was just in training. She was in the pool with her face in the water, standing on the bottom of the pool. Goth Odell Beckham posted:You are like a baby. Making noise. Don't know what to do 
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Dec 29, 2022 04:08
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Doctor Spaceman posted:When was Kate Winslett's record-breaking underwater scene in the film? It's not that she had a scene where she actually had to hold her breath for 7m15s. That was just part of her training so that she could do performance capture underwater without having to breathe for extended periods of time as breathing causes bubbles and that mucks up the camera's facial captures. If I had to guess though, that training was probably put to good use during the scene where the Tulkuns return and Ronal is talking with her spirit sister about their children.
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Dec 29, 2022 04:10
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!Klams posted:Ok, I mean reading this thread, I get the vibe it's generally well loved, and I sure as poo poo appreciate that the effort that's gone into making it has created something amazing. neytiri flew into a rage because her eldest son was murdered op
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Dec 29, 2022 04:23
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teagone posted:It's not that she had a scene where she actually had to hold her breath for 7m15s. That was just part of her training so that she could do performance capture underwater without having to breathe for extended periods of time as breathing causes bubbles and that mucks up the camera's facial captures. Ah I was going off comparisons to Cruise holding his breath for MI5 which was for a specific scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnEcPnfvDGo
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Dec 29, 2022 04:24
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Bugblatter posted:It really sucks that the game license went to UbiSoft of all devs. God it's gonna be so janky. They should collaborate with the Sea of Thieves devs for the water physics. And also you can play as a whale and body slam humans.
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Dec 29, 2022 05:13
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Kazzah posted:"There is no such thing as an anti-whaling film" - François Truffaut Well, strictly speaking, Avatar 2 doesn't say to save the whales. The tulkuns are a lot like whales, but they are not whales. They speak a language easily translatable to English, and they're very clear that they don't want to to be saved. They're straight-up like "we choose death." Avatar 2 obviously isn't the worst movie ever, but a more interesting film might've explored how these guys deal with all the green elf things doing murder on their behalf. Why are they still friends with the Navi? (Are they still friends with the Navi?) What do you do when these guys want to die?
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Dec 29, 2022 05:26
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How do you know whales cannot speak. Have you tried?
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Dec 29, 2022 05:59
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Bugblatter posted:There's the old Gundam joke, but I always thought the shots taken at the nerds kind of miss a lesson for storytellers. Making the instrument of war really cool is gonna detract from your "war is bad" message, it's not all on the nerds. I mean obviously he focused on the mechanics of the whale hunt to show how gruesome it is and it’s connection to real whale hunting, and to demonstrate the purpose of all these tools which are then used in the battle (balloon gun used to surface whales then used surface one of the kids on their fish mount).
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Dec 29, 2022 06:01
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checkplease posted:I mean obviously he focused on the mechanics of the whale hunt to show how gruesome it is and it’s connection to real whale hunting, and to demonstrate the purpose of all these tools which are then used in the battle (balloon gun used to surface whales then used surface one of the kids on their fish mount). Yeah, that's the intent, but again the Truffaut quote was highlighting the difference between intent and effect. A lot of intended anti-war films wind up being effective recruitment tools because it's hard to depict the action of war without it coming across as cool -- at least to the audience members most likely to be seduced by war. Those horrified by the depictions probably never would have bought in any way. Again, Cameron removing 10 gun-centric minutes of runtime indicates he's concerned about the problem. The engineering in the hunt is fascinating, and it might have been better for the intended messaging if it hadn't been highlighted so heavily. Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Dec 29, 2022 |
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Dec 29, 2022 06:53
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I mean it's not like the whole sequence is particularly impressive on behalf of the characters. The point is to illustrate how the whales are basically sitting ducks that refuse to fight back while the high-tech operation from their perspective is like some horror movie invaders. The process is outright leisurely from the comfortable cockpit of the ship, and all for a little canister of fluid to let some rich rear end in a top hat enjoy youth a bit longer in a setting where it's literally already established they can outright grow you a new body and stick your brain patterns in it. Also it makes it all the more fun at the end where the whale who doesn't take their poo poo anymore just absolutely fucks them up, all their fancy tools are useless against a target that actually fights back. Really the whole point is that the whales, as well as the Na'vi and the humans, are all people with their own personal and social virtues and flaws- the main problem is the whales have lived an idyllic existence where pacifism is genuinely an ideal choice because there's very little that can meaningfully harm them until now, while the human presence is the tip of the spear of a horrific industrial capitalist empire that's already strip-mined its irreplaceable home to death and has its eyes set on Pandora to continue the cycle- and it doesn't matter that a lot of them know exactly what's going on and hate it, because they don't have any power or choice in the matter, and the entire point of hunting down Jake is to punish him for rebellion and make an example.
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Dec 29, 2022 07:19
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