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Rockman Reserve posted:drat it I just reread that one but I split it up with rereading 5 and 6 sooo I'm having trouble with keeping my thoughts straight, can you point to a general scene or two I should consider in a different light or should I finish out 8 first? I mean I'm guessing it's something with the aquarium and/or proposal scenes, or maybe the Kanon/Shannon/Beatrice showdown where Beatrice goes off all angrily about how love is physical...?
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Dec 21, 2022 23:53
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oh. uh... .
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Dec 21, 2022 23:57
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Rockman Reserve posted:oh. uh... The true protagonist of umineko is very depressed
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Dec 22, 2022 03:57
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Episode 6. George and Jessica are about to fight in the second twilight. Not really that much to say since my last post. The exposition was really clunky given how much of the situation was foreshadowed earlier in the episode. Featherine is a waste of a character when everyone else is just turning to the camera and explaining the implications of their actions. I don't know how Battler gets out of this, but I know that he does. With the emphasis on Beato saving him, I think that it may involve name shenanigans for Shannon and Kanon. There's also supposed to be a hint in the next scene coming up.
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Dec 22, 2022 04:52
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Jeez Gou/Sotsu really hosed up Bernkastel, huh. Battler why on earth did you invite them you dumbass.
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Dec 22, 2022 18:34
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Still episode 6. Jesus loving christ the wedding is written like a rape scene?! Yeah wow, that was handled incredibly poorly imo. E: I got a Steam card for that session.  A bit on the nose. So Math fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Dec 23, 2022 |
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Dec 23, 2022 01:37
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oh my god (E8) This is a real game between you and me. I recommend finding some paper and something to write with. That is, if you really intend to fight me. hell yes e: does this own? this seems like it really owns. what a cool section. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Dec 28, 2022 |
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Dec 28, 2022 05:00
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Okay, some thoughts on That Part of Umineko Episode 8: -Overall I'm just having trouble making it work with a single culprit (and not just in a Kanon/Shannon sort of way). It seems like Nanjo and maybe George have to be in on it, as well. Otherwise I don't see a way to square Shannon's death/Kanon's disappearance with the later murders. There's possibly some semantic wiggle room there, George's purple statement at the fourth twilight is something like "eventually I was forced to acknowledge her death", but Nanjo's "of course I confirmed her death as well" seems a little more straightforward. -boy howdy does it make you want to think that George killed Shannon, huh. Like, sure, the purple says he couldn't kill Shannon, but George has always low-key kinda sucked and it's very careful to never say he couldn't kill Kanon. Plus Maria's purple line at the last twilight about "George couldn't kill an adult....but a kid...?" -I don't know what value to give the repeated purple claims that the victims died instantly. For the first twilight, at least, that....kind of seems to imply accomplices or something? -The first and second twilights are obvious if we assume S/K is the culprit. The fifth through eighth twilights are also very doable for them. But that fourth twilight trips me the hell up - if Shannon isn't really dead, it seems to make liars out of multiple people. Soooo with all the above in mind I can make a few theories that rely on a couple of culprits working mostly in tandem, but the Select Culprit screen seems to be looking for a single answer. Okay, fine. So any piece of information we get in purple from two different sources must be true, with the caveats that Kanon and Shannon almost certainly don't count as different sources for obvious reasons, and a lot of it seems worded to imply that it's confirming other purple statements while actually saying something slightly different.
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Dec 28, 2022 16:59
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Rockman do not read this yet They're definitely being confused by the select culprit screen since they think they can only pick one. Should we tell them or let them figure it out?
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Dec 28, 2022 17:03
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VostokProgram posted:Rockman do not read this yet Just let them figure it out, I think. It's not too bad.
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Dec 28, 2022 17:18
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guys its past christmas how am i supposed to have enough self control to not look at that you're making fun of me aren't you
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Dec 28, 2022 17:21
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okay I've been fuckin' pondering this all day now and I'm finally back at it, time to see if something clicks. I guess I would appreciate it if someone would confirm (Umineko 8) that it's expecting you to find a singular culprit, it seems like it's really hard to make that work for a lot of the reasons I mentioned above, but if it lets you click more than one* or something then it changes the way I'm going to think about it. *unless it expects you to select Kanon and Shannon which doesn't solve any of the purple statement issues I'm running into, here e: the rules really make it seem like there can be more than one culprit e2: nvm I realized I could just try it. OOOOoookay....I think I probably have it. as an aside the UI for this whole section is just fantastically useful Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 29, 2022 |
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Dec 29, 2022 00:53
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Rockman Reserve posted:okay I've been fuckin' pondering this all day now and I'm finally back at it, time to see if something clicks. since it's been several hours: you can click more than one culprit on that screen
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Dec 29, 2022 01:14
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VostokProgram posted:You can read this: I think you posted this at the same time I edited mine, but yeah. That....is interesting. It's awesome, it seems like this whole thing is set up to lead you down all kinds of logic spirals - if X then Y then Z then X1.... Ramblepost incoming, please bear with me as I post through it/organize my thoughts: The obvious answer I'm leaning towards is Shannon(/Kanon), George, and Nanjo. There's some iffyness where the statements of the first twilight don't actually prove Genji's death if Kanon is involved (let alone Nanjo - and if Nanjo is a culprit it opens all kinds of cans of worms), so we can toss Genji in as an accomplice. He doesn't make any statements at all, let alone purple ones, so he can move in the shadows without needing to kill anyone himself if we need a piece like that. The one thing we really have on the first twilight is that the culprit of the first twilight killed six people. That said, that was said in the metaverse after the second twilight, so who knows "when" it's referring to. What's actually limiting here is the number of bodies. Frankly, with his master key being destroyed, there just isn't a whole lot Genji can get away with that can't be done by someone else who's not ostensibly dead (until the fourth twilight or so, at least). Shannon/Kanon - basically have to be lying, even discounting the entire rest of everything I don't see any way around the Second Twilight closed room unless they're lying and therefore a culprit. In fact, Genji can only be considered alive if Kanon is a culprit, so we can discount the possibility of Genji coming and unlocking and locking the door for some third party entirely. Since we're treating them as a culprit, let's say they're responsible for the second twilight murders, possibly the first, possibly 5 of the first and one of the second if we're accounting for Genji possibly being alive. Nanjo - the guy reeks of sketchiness after what we know about him from Episode 7...but honestly so does everyone else. That was a brutal episode. But if he's' a culprit, it weakens a lot of the framework of the other twilights, especially the fourth twilight where only he confirms Shannon's death (and George is only "forced to acknowledge it"). But unless there's something fucky going on (more on that later) he can't be the culprit for twilights 5 and 6, and was killed in twilight 7, we're assuming that if Shannon/Kanon is a culprit there wasn't really a murder in the Fourth Twilight (more on this later too), sooo either he was responsible for the first or second twilights or some weird combination thereof. Probably the first twilight, since the second so explicitly required a master key? George - the purple statements really seem to imply that he might've actually killed Kanon in the fourth twilight, or at least they really go out of their way to not rule it out. Plus, if he's a culprit, it opens some apparent closed rooms in twilights 5-8 right up. ...but if that's the case, who actually committed the crimes of the fifth through eighth twilights? It would have been easy for anyone already presumed dead and all signs point to Shannon for a million reasons both inside and out of Game 8, but on the other hand if George actually killed them in the fourth twilight it doesn't leave him with an easy way to get away with the remaining murders. Maybe that's where we bring Genji back in. Thoughts On The Eighth Twilight And Everything Else: the eighth twilight is short and simple but the purple statements are loving wild. Like, if we ignore the possibility of a seemingly dead person like Genji or Shannon, then the statements seem to overlap each other in a way that forces all the cousins to be culprits (including possibly Jessica). It's an interesting thought and it opens up lots of weird possibilities (like if Battler is a culprit, then his purple statement during the first twilight could almost be taken as a wedge right against Knox's 4th, which....might be a worthwhile way to look at it just because gently caress Bernkastel and whatever bleak poo poo she's trying to play at in this game.) But the problem we run into again is the body count, people can only lie in purple if they're directly responsible for a death, and we know that at least one person killed six people, probably by the second twilight at the latest (....probably). The locked guesthouse doesn't matter at all if anyone let someone in before the fifth twilight, obviously. arghghghg 
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Dec 29, 2022 02:32
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I read all of your rambling and, lol
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Dec 29, 2022 02:41
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LordMune posted:Yeah, it was a conversational exaggeration placed there for readers to get hung up on only because we know we're reading a murder mystery. Probably my only minor gripe with Umineko is that it can occasionally be a bit too mean with misdirection (and generally trying to manipulate the reader by deliberately making stuff seem important that isn't). That's the main reason I didn't figure a lot of stuff out on my first playthrough; I spent almost all of episodes 1-5 going down unproductive tangents of speculation.
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Dec 29, 2022 02:45
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Nyaawn posted:I read all of your rambling and,  (in all seriousness I'm looking forward to finishing this and reading All Of The Spoilers sometime soon and I genuinely appreciate people putting up with my rambling stream of sorta-consciousness theory posts)
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Dec 29, 2022 02:53
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Rockman Reserve posted:
Incorrect!  (You can read this)
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Dec 29, 2022 03:40
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Cyouni posted:Incorrect! gasp!! I have been undone!! Regardless I'm shelving it for the night, possibly for a day or three, gotta let it percolate a bit. You only get one first shot at these things, after all. Things to consider: am I way off base and driving myself into a blind corner with my reasoning so far? How many other possible culprit combinations are there? How many culprits are there, really?
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Dec 29, 2022 05:20
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Ytlaya posted:Probably my only minor gripe with Umineko is that it can occasionally be a bit too mean with misdirection (and generally trying to manipulate the reader by deliberately making stuff seem important that isn't). That's the main reason I didn't figure a lot of stuff out on my first playthrough; I spent almost all of episodes 1-5 going down unproductive tangents of speculation. That's valid criticism, but I can't really fault the author for it. He had to keep a mystery going for six games, that so many hints even tangent the core mystery or at least are informative re: characterization is very impressive. Especially considering there's really only one leap of logic the reader has to make (and it can sort-of reasonably be made as early as the ep1 tea party) for it all to come apart.
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Dec 29, 2022 10:48
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Man I had no idea I'd get so caught up with Umineko. I basically blitzed through the Question Arcs over winter break. Below are my speculations after Episode 4 and reviewing Episode 1. I suspect that Shannon is Beatrice. I think there is a singular Beatrice acting as 'mastermind' over a larger conspiracy. Throughout these episodes it appears that whoever the culprit is, the main motivation they have is to unveil some sort of truth. The message bottle from the first episode ends with the writer 'Maria' entreating whoever finds these bottles to uncover the truth. We're told that the contents of the message bottles are incredibly detailed recountings of the first and second game, but in the end, neither of them are the 'truth'--otherwise why would the letter end by asking the reader to find the truth? Then you have the letters asking the islanders to solve the epitaph. There's not too much direct evidence to support this, but I'm thinking that the huge mountain of gold that people find by solving the epitaph is not actually what Beatrice wants them to find. Rather, it's the creepy windowless underground dungeon VIP room, that even has a bed. Normally if one were to store a large sum of gold, it'd be in a vault. However, Kinzo's gold is stored in this super creepy windowless underground VIP dungeon room with a huge bed in it. I'm like, 98% certain that horrific things happened to someone in this room, and those horrific things were one of the cogs that led them to become 'Beatrice'. In other words: the thing that is important in this room is not gold, but rather, the room itself. What Beatrice wants the epitaph-solver to see is not the gold, but the abuse hinted by the existence of a creepy underground VIP room. Next is Battler's sin. Six years ago, Asumu died, Battler went on to live with his grandparents, Ange was born. However, piece-Beatrice claimed that she's uninterested in Battler's immediate family and that the sin had something to do with Rokkenjima. If you remove immediate family, then the only thing that we're presented with as Battler having done six years ago was promise Shannon to come back for her on a white horse. There are some other odd things about Shannon. Most Fukuin Orphanage (btw NO WAY has Kinzo been funding a sketchy servant-producing orphanage out of the kindness of his own heart) graduates work at the Ushiromiya Mansion for three years, but Shannon has been working there for ten years. The narrative notes that that makes her an exception of an exception. Why has she been working here for so long? When George asked, Shannon was evasive. I have a theory that Shannon, like Beatrice, is trapped on Rokkenjima--otherwise, why would Battler promise to come back for her on a white horse? That imagery suggests a princely rescue, and if Shannon was merely an employee, there was no need for her to be 'rescued' per se. The only thing that puzzles me on this theory is that Kinzo is red-texted as dead at the start of all games. Whatever binds Shannon to the island persists even after Kinzo's death. Perhaps her desire to take vengeance and unveil the truth to Battler is what keeps her on the island now? Also, Shannon's reaction to George proposing to her read to me as decidedly lukewarm in Episode 1. He basically orders her to accept the ring and orders her to not use '-sama' around him. It's only starting in Episode 2 for some reason that Shannon and George's relationship gets going. I'm still trying to parse through everything that happened there, but I'm still going with 'Beatrice is an alternate personality/imaginary friend/tulpa of Shannon'. Perhaps throughout these loops Shannon is trying to imagine herself happy with George, whereas Beatrice is still hung up on Battler and the broken promise he made six years ago. As for Kanon: he is definitely an accomplice, given how close he is to Shannon. I have a pet theory that his introductory scene muttering 'Even I...' after Battler helped him out could be him gathering his strength for the massacres ahead. 'Even I can help show the truth' or something, I'm not sure, but given how icily he treats Battler on first meeting (in stark contrast to everyone else) makes me think that Shannon likely told Kanon about Battler's sin six years ago, making Kanon predisposed to treating Battler coldly. Also, Kanon is the only person on the island who we see as acknowledging and being horrified by Rosa's abuse of Maria in front of Maria, contemporaneously with the two days of the massacre. I can see Shannon and Kanon also involving Kumasawa (Virgilia?) as she's been on the island for a very long time and likely witnessed many unsavory things. Genji is portrayed in magic sequences as being an ally too, as there's the whole thing with him maybe being Ronove. Okay finally there's also a weird idea I've been kicking around in my head of Kanon maybe being secretly a girl. He has the whole 'voiced by a woman' thing going on, which might be common in Japanese media but makes me wonder. I think this is unlikely but not impossible, but I haven't really thought this all the way through so I'm not sure what implications that has on everything. Might refine this thought later. Even if Kanon is a girl though, the fact that s/he started working on Rokkenjima three years ago puts him/her out of the scope of Battler's sin six years ago. I'm bracing myself to be completely wrong but this was the best theory my brain could come up with at the moment. I tried to get into Umineko a lot over the years but kept getting repelled by the slow pace of Episode 1. Finally made it through and now I'm really enjoying this game. Can't wait to read all these black bars once I finish. Akarshi fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Dec 29, 2022 |
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Dec 29, 2022 14:29
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kihihihihihi.wav
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Dec 29, 2022 17:22
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holy gently caress the manga is expensive reprint when?
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Dec 30, 2022 21:53
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Rockman Reserve posted:holy gently caress the manga is expensive i'm not sure but I sure do hope it gets one because I think Higurashi got reprinted (relatively) recently.
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Dec 30, 2022 21:56
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I might get them on Comixology or something, I generally tend to shy away from digital for stuff I really like but 1) the volumes are loving huge and 2) hahaha over $100 per volume are you kidding me I have 8 volumes 1 and 2 and have read a few pages in 8v1 and the scenes of Battler freaking out on the boat, and Kinzo being a big dumb goofy Halloween nut make me really wanna see the rest fully illustrated.
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Dec 30, 2022 22:39
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Rockman Reserve posted:I might get them on Comixology or something, I generally tend to shy away from digital for stuff I really like but 1) the volumes are loving huge and 2) hahaha over $100 per volume are you kidding me I bought them at ~$40 CAD each from my local Indigo. When I moved, it took an entire box to move my Umineko volumes.
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Dec 30, 2022 23:58
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Just finished Episode 5 and the Tea Parties.... Erika going on that whole spiel about how one can only trust red words and that white words are meaningless makes me want to spitefully think the exact opposite. Like, red text has been characterized as 'cruel' and 'merciless', so does that mean that white text is 'kind' and 'merciful'? Like, there's meaning in what we see in the white text, even though we can never be sure that what we're shown is the strict 'truth'? White text > red text because white text is what the 'story is written in'? Also, during the whole Knox rule beatdown on Battler I was thinking something like, "Okay, so Knox's rules apply only in fair play mystery stories. Can Battler argue back by saying that the genre of the story is different? As in, this is not a fair play mystery story, this is a thriller story! The story of Beatrice's gameboard looks like a mystery, but in reality the genre is 'Horror'!" But then in the tea parties they go on to talk about how fair play mystery stories are like 'love stories' where the reader trusts that its solvable and the author trusts that the reader can solve it, so that pretty much scuttles my theory haha. I'm still pinning Shannon as my top suspect for Beatrice, especially after Beatrice talks about how Battler made a promise to her at one point. I don't really know what the implications of the Natsuhi baby are: this baby wasn't shown in Episodes 1-4, which we're told has 'everything that Beatrice wanted to show Battler (us)', so whoever this Natsuhi baby is, he's not essential for reaching the truth. It could still be a conspiracy where people who know about Natsuhi's babymurder got together to terrorize her with this knowledge, even though the baby himself is dead. I think the caller is probably someone who is not the baby, acting as the baby. And yeah Battler's theory about the caller being himself matches with how the caller has his voice, but it's implied that's not the whole truth, since he's protecting the illusion of the witch. So does that mean there's still a single 'true truth' behind Ep 5's game? Yeahhh curious to see what Battler's game is like. Since he knows the truth already I guess there'll be some pretty huge hints up ahead. Uhhh yeah, I feel like I have a lot of pieces but they're not quite meshing together yet into a coherent story: all I got is 'Shannon was horribly abused, perhaps in the creepy dungeon VIP room. Battler may have seen some of this abuse six years ago and promised to rescue her from her awful situation. Six years pass and Battler completely forgets all this (maybe trauma?). During this six year time period or perhaps even before, the tulpa 'Beatrice' manifests in Shannon and slowly begins overtaking her personality." Hope I'm not going at this from a totally incorrect angle, since I'm pretty invested in my Shannon=Beatrice theory. Like, given the huge romantic undertones between Battler and Beatrice, I really don't think Beatrice can be any of the adult Ushiromiyas, and I'm pretty sure Beatrice is a single person that Battler did in fact make a promise to. So the folks that are left are Jessica and Shannon. Jessica is included because she's born from Natsuhi, but it's possible that, given that the doctors could find nothing wrong with Natsuhi, Krauss was infertile, so Jessica may have been the child of Natsuhi and ???, therefore making Jessica not directly related (but it's still kinda grody). I guess going off my half-baked 'Is Kanon A Girl?' theory, Kanon might be Beatrice too. We still don't know his name, and if he's Beatrice then maybe that's why he seemed so standoffish when Battler greeted him without recognizing him. Argh yeah I get the feeling that Episode 6 is going to start giving answers so I kinda want to solve it before then 
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Dec 31, 2022 16:29
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this is only moderately related to Umineko because it’s really good detective fiction but Glass Onion is amazing and (Um7/GO spoiler) is like two minor plot changes away from being Umineko through a different lens. I mean, imagine that stoner guy describing what happened to the police and it’d come out almost to a message bottle.
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Dec 31, 2022 21:50
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Rockman Reserve posted:this is only moderately related to Umineko because it’s really good detective fiction but Glass Onion is amazing and (Um7/GO spoiler) is like two minor plot changes away from being Umineko through a different lens. I mean, imagine that stoner guy describing what happened to the police and it’d come out almost to a message bottle. i actually thought the same thing when me and my wife watched it a few days ago, lmao
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Dec 31, 2022 21:59
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Elements of glass onion & knives out are very similar to umineko
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Jan 1, 2023 00:26
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The core twist of it being way simpler than advertised is very similar imo
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Jan 1, 2023 01:32
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Umi and Knive's Out have some similarities in form but differ completely in tone. Umineko is a sincere story, Knives Out is insincere.
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Jan 1, 2023 01:51
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(full spoilers, Umineko and movies) Glass Onion has a gold haired woman unexpectedly coming to a remote island that’s rigged to explode to reclaim her fortune, and if you wanna get meta, she’s played by a non-binary gender-fluid actor
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Jan 1, 2023 02:12
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Gaius Marius posted:Umi and Knive's Out have some similarities in form but differ completely in tone. Umineko is a sincere story, Knives Out is insincere. Willard would say it doesn't understand the heart
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Jan 1, 2023 02:27
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Rockman Reserve posted:(full spoilers, Umineko and movies) Glass Onion has a gold haired woman unexpectedly coming to a remote island that’s rigged to explode to reclaim her fortune, and if you wanna get meta, she’s played by a non-binary gender-fluid actor Exactly the form might be the same but the emotion, not necessarily of the characters, but of the film itself is different. One could write off a line about any Whodunit and say they compare to Umineko. Or even any film if one could find a few threads of aesthetic similarity to pull on. The heart of Umineko lies not in the mystery, but in it's use of mystery to unpack the empathetic nature we lose more every day in society. Celine and Julie go Boating is similar to Umineko. It asks you the question but answers not why two young women would drop out of society to drop down continually deeper rabbit holes of possibly made up mysteries about their own childhoods unknown element. Last Year at Marienbad is similar to Umineko in that it's cold and ever looping nature, the staged actions of marionettes repeating actions endlessly continually begs of the viewer why is this happening? Is this real, purgatory, memory, or hell? Did they make a promise Last Year at Marienbad? Pale Fire is similar to Umineko because it's form also involves a deep look into the nature of authorship, the role of criticism, and delusion to escape an unwanted life, but since Nabokov was a very good natured cynic who hated sentimentality to an almost comical degree, the work does not evoke the same level of emotional resonance. It's prose however is much much better. Also to even attack the premise itself, do you really think Sayo is after fat stacks? If so..... All this to say my non spoilered friends, the French made for TV movie Perdues dans New York is the closest a non Umineko work has gotten to Umineko.
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Jan 1, 2023 03:01
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Umineko is the Infinite Jest of Visual Novels.
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Jan 1, 2023 03:01
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midway through ep 6 oh come on, are Shannon and Kanon actually the same person? Like there's gotta be a reason why they introduce the new demon characters, and one of them appears female but speaks with a male voice....like how Kanon appears male but speaks with a female voice. And these demons are two halves of the same brooch. Reminds me of back in Ep 4 someone said that Shannon and Kanon were once the same set of furniture or something. And then you have the talk where if Shannon gets with George, Kanon will leave the island forever (basically disappear), and if Kanon gets with Jessica, Shannon's love with George will not be fulfilled. But I'm still confused about why a Kanon tulpa was necessary to create in the first place. I'm assuming first there was Sayo/Shannon, and then Battler breaks a promise to her. Beatrice Tulpa gets created. Afterwards, Kanon Tulpa gets created, and everyone buys into this. But why? Also I just got into the 'Trial' scene, and man it's a pretty stacked deck against Jessica here. Like really she barely knows Kanon, only liked him from afar, and now she's suddenly thrown into this crazy duel where she has to fight for her love against George, who literally just proposed to Shannon lol. That's hardcore. Like Jessica and Kanon haven't even gone on a real date, and now she's pitted against a guy who said he would kill everyone else on the island for the sake of his romance with Shannon. also man why's battler bein such a dick to New Beatrice, like intellectually I get it, he's sad about her looking like Beato but not being Beato, but there's no need to totally destroy her and disregard the effort of her homemade cookies 
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Jan 2, 2023 05:54
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Still on ep 6. Battler's game being the story of a prank makes me wonder if there is a happy end to all this after all. It is possible that no murders happened, Rokkenjima is a cat box. Retroactively, maybe everything can be written such that the events of the game are stories (already sorta confirmed by the Theater Witch copping to various episodes being her homegrown fanfic), and the 'truth' could be that everyone got together for a murder mystery party/series of pranks. Not sure where that leaves Ange, though. The 'true' Game Master of the board being 19, everything set as occurring 19 years ago, really makes the Natsuhi baby seem important. But this baby wasn't shown in Eps 1-4. 19 years ago, the other event was Rosa inadvertently killing Cage Bird Beatrice. I guess maybe you're supposed to think that Kinzo and Cage Bird Beatrice possibly had a baby that year. And I suppose the baby became Shannon/Kanon. It makes that line Beatrice says to Battler in Ep 4 about how Kinzo pushed her down and taught her what it meant to be furniture really frikkin horrific. Anyways, yeah, Shannon and Kanon though are probably both tulpas. Both furniture. Beatrice is also a tulpa. These three people are all tulpas born from the Natsuhi baby, who has likely lived a horrific life. If I think back on Kanon's introductory scene, if I look at it from the lens of Kanon=Shannon=Beatrice=Natsuhi baby, and think about the gender play introduced by the love demons, it makes Battler's line about how Kanon is a dude having a worried dude heart stick out. Wasn't there something about how he didn't think Jessica could understand either? Hmm. Anyways, my guess for how Battler escapes: the demons say love is involved. So Battler can't leave the room on his own. Someone else has to save him. Shannon=Kanon=Beatrice=Natsuhi Baby is the most likely person to let him out of the room because this entire story is shaping up to be a love story between Beatrice and Battler, what with these mysteries being love stories per the Virgilia/Battler discussion back in uhh ep 5. Somehow, using loopholes in red text, Shannon=Kanon=Beatrice=Natsuhi Baby is able to wriggle out of wherever they're in and save the day. Akarshi fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jan 4, 2023 |
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Jan 4, 2023 16:59
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Gaius Marius posted:Exactly the form might be the same but the emotion, not necessarily of the characters, but of the film itself is different. One could write off a line about any Whodunit and say they compare to Umineko. Or even any film if one could find a few threads of aesthetic similarity to pull on. The heart of Umineko lies not in the mystery, but in it's use of mystery to unpack the empathetic nature we lose more every day in society. I think this is a bit unfair. I mean, yeah, obviously Glass Onion isn't going for what Umineko is, and that's fine - there's no way trying to make that work as a two hour movie would go well. But the surface level/aesthetic similarities are there - to the point where when everyone finally gets to the island and starts introducing themselves I turned to my wife and said "I'll bet you ten bucks everything explodes somehow," which was obviously correct in the end and is obviously 100% just Umineko, not standard mystery fare. It also kind of seems like the ending was rewritten - again, I have to posit that if everyone in the mansion died in the explosion/fire and Blanc kept his mouth shut, Derol's story would in a vacuum be too spotty to reach the truth, and exactly the kind of wild thing people like the Witch Hunters would pick up and run into the ground. And to your last point, no, Sayo's not after money, but... did....did you think that was what Helen was after?
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Jan 5, 2023 03:40
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| # ? May 29, 2024 08:25 |
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okay, I've let it simmer for a week or so and here's more Dumb Umineko 8 Theorizing: As much as I just want to point to Sayo as the culprit/s I just can't make it work without an accomplice due to the Fourth Twilight. Specifically, it all falls apart without Nanjo. There's also the possibility of Genji being alive but I don't really know what twilight he'd be responsible for - the seventh or eighth, maybe? I need to go through it again and see if there's any reason Sayo can't commit any particular murders from 5-8. Basically, Nanjo kills everyone in the first twilight. The hint about the culprit killing six people means Genji's probably dead. Sayo performs the second twilight, the fourth twilight is a farce enabled by Nanjo, and Sayo commits five through eight. The only reason I kind of want to include Genji is because if Nanjo is part of Beatrice's conspiracy, Genji almost certainly is as well. Plus, his weird apparent combat ability and the trust of the servants would allow him to carry out the fifth and sixth twilights easily. I.... think the stuff about George and the Fourth Twilight is probably a red herring. Probably. At what point should I check the Hints section? How much does it give away? I'd like to engage with it on its own terms but also lol. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 06:34
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