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500excf type r posted:I don't think Mitsubishi installed explosives specifically for impact effects tho No they needed the Yokosuka naval arsenal to do that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yokosuka_MXY-7_Ohka
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Jan 1, 2023 07:53
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LegoMan posted:isn't a "suicide drone" just a cruise missile Yes, but the practical difference in how people talk about them is that a cruise missile is jet powered. 500excf type r posted:It is actively steered, like video game wire guided missiles The Shaheeds are not, although others are. Some cruise missiles can be remotly controlled, like the Regulus.
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Jan 1, 2023 08:23
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https://twitter.com/ArmyRecognition/status/1608774358167592961 who's ready for the sequel to the pentagon wars edit: we're already off to a good start 
Danann has issued a correction as of 10:49 on Jan 1, 2023 |
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Jan 1, 2023 10:28
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Yeah a t-72b is 49 US tons to put it in perspective.
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Jan 1, 2023 11:18
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Weka posted:This seems like bullshit. At $25k a Shaheed thats a Su-35 for $1.8 million. A cursory google suggest a Su-35 costs $43 million, about $600,000 per Shaheed. If you're Russia and you're desperate, getting 1700 drones very soon in return for an agreement to make some Sukhois at some point in the future might not seem like a terrible deal, or maybe they'll be giving them some well-used airframes that they were going to retire anyway
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Jan 1, 2023 15:24
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LegoMan posted:isn't a "suicide drone" just a cruise missile the MIC term for them is "loitering munitions" which makes them different from cruise missiles because you can fly them around in circles for a while if necessary, but yes a "suicide drone" is basically just a self-powered guided bomb with a scary name to remind headline readers that they're made in a scary Muslim country
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Jan 1, 2023 15:38
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i think landmines should be the ones called "loitering munitions" they are much more lazy and relaxed munitions than a drone
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Jan 1, 2023 15:43
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Rutibex posted:i think landmines should be the ones called "loitering munitions" they are much more lazy and relaxed munitions than a drone I think "littering munitions" would be more appropriate.
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Jan 1, 2023 15:49
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Filthy Hans posted:If you're Russia and you're desperate, getting 1700 drones very soon in return for an agreement to make some Sukhois at some point in the future might not seem like a terrible deal, or maybe they'll be giving them some well-used airframes that they were going to retire anyway it's basically a form of patronage, it's definitely in russia's interest to help countries that the us keeps making belligerent moves towards also when you sell high-tech stuff to someone they're dependent on you for replacement parts and poo poo, so that's another way to build stronger bonds between russia and iran
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Jan 1, 2023 16:08
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Cerebral Bore posted:also when you sell high-tech stuff to someone they're dependent on you for replacement parts and poo poo, so that's another way to build stronger bonds between russia and iran i don't think iran is at any risk of being dependent on anyone for spare parts for aircraft
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Jan 1, 2023 18:30
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what, they have a secret stockpile of surplus flankers just lying around or something?
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Jan 1, 2023 18:32
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Cerebral Bore posted:what, they have a secret stockpile of surplus flankers just lying around or something? they still fly f-14s decades after being sanctioned to hell and back by the us, if there is a single country in the world you could reasonably expect to maintain modern aircraft with spit and bailing wire it is iran
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Jan 1, 2023 18:36
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Cerebral Bore posted:what, they have a secret stockpile of surplus flankers just lying around or something? They now have more F-14s in service than under the Shah. It’s gotten some attention in military and aviation journals because it’s an unrivalled accomplishment. Not just still flying. They have created production lines for parts, restored airframes, made significant upgrades. It’s so far beyond flying “old” Tomcats. What they’ve done is essentially make new F-14s. At least within the past 10 years, it’s taken a lot of people by surprise and shows a lot of innovation on their end. I mean, the “spit and bailing wire” thing I think is complementary and speaks to their tenacity, but it’s a really sophisticated operation and that part hasn’t really made the jump to popular understanding. The easiest explanation is this: American analysts always expected fewer F-14s to be in service over time, the spit and bailing wire model. That makes sense, cannibalizing parts, using up spares etc. In actuality, more have entered service over time, demonstrating an increase in capabilities. They’re not just fabricating parts but clearly whole subassemblies. I’ll look for the journal articles because it’s really cool stuff. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 18:43 on Jan 1, 2023 |
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Jan 1, 2023 18:36
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right, but it's probably better to get actual spare parts instead of making knockoffs, and since russia isn't irrationally mad at iran because they dared to oust a guy forty years ago they will have that option
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Jan 1, 2023 18:39
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continued us belligerence finally leading to the emergence of and coordination between the new allied powers, what’s so hard to understand about that
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Jan 1, 2023 18:40
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Frosted Flake posted:They now have more F-14s in service than under the Shah. It’s gotten some attention in military and aviation journals because it’s an unrivalled accomplishment. i can see why people are worried they will make a nuke, they are obviously perfectly capable. the USA couldn't make an F-14 in 1945
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Jan 1, 2023 18:41
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Russia isn't just trying to get Iran on a hook as a customer for Russian MIC. They're also investing in Iranian military industry and expanding them, so Iran already being very capable isn't a downside from that point of view.
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Jan 1, 2023 18:49
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Here’s one article about it How Iran manages to keep its F-14 Tomcats flying but there are better ones, I just can’t remember where offhand. On the CMO/CMANO forum they have some research as Iranian F-14s get more capable in the past 10 years in the database entries. For example, they are able to use AIM-54s again, Iran has restored and started to produce AIM-54s, it’s all pretty wild stuff. I believe their F-4 fleet has also started to see major improvements, matching or exceeding the most modern ones still in NATO service. To the above point, Russia providing them with aircraft and possibly some sort of licence production would be a major step up in their capabilities. Russia helped China develop their aviation industry and was instrumental in the major leaps forward in the past 10-15 years. I mean, we bankrupted the Soviet Union and Yeltin sold his country out but the knowhow was still there. When put to the service of countries that retain their industrial base and political will, there’s a lot that can come out of it. America weakened allied aviation industries with every successive generation of aircraft sales. The Starfighter, F-4 and F-16 were bargains, sure, but came at the cost of licence production, domestic expertise, industrial capability. The F-35 was intended to be the final nail in the coffin, guaranteeing dependance on the American MIC. Russia doing anything less predatory would be an advantage. The difference between Iranian F-4s and those sold to the Greek and Turkish air forces is that by virtue of being on the outs, Iran isn’t expected to “just” buy F-16s and F-35s, so the F-4 fleet supports and is supported by a domestic aviation industry. NATO members can’t keep “old” aircraft in service, make more of them, upgrade them. They’re trapped in a relationship with America and American industry that rules that out.  It’s pretty cool that they have developed their industry to the point where they’re taking aircraft out of boneyards and getting them back in service. When that’s being actively supported by an ally instead of opposed by an adversary, I imagine they’ll be able to do some really neat stuff. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 19:03 on Jan 1, 2023 |
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Jan 1, 2023 18:51
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Rutibex posted:i can see why people are worried they will make a nuke, they are obviously perfectly capable. the USA couldn't make an F-14 in 1945 the USA couldn't make an F-14 in 2022 either I think most of the F-35 fleet is grounded right now since that recent failed STOL landing
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Jan 1, 2023 19:16
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Looking around, 1700 Shaheeds is the number that Russia has supposedly already received. The Su-35s are brand new. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not a straight swap so much as general trade / parts of a larger deal. Also found this cool quote: Ukrainian presidential aide Mykhailo Podolyak said Iran "blatantly humiliates the institution of international sanctions" vyelkin posted:the MIC term for them is "loitering munitions" which makes them different from cruise missiles because you can fly them around in circles for a while if necessary, but yes a "suicide drone" is basically just a self-powered guided bomb with a scary name to remind headline readers that they're made in a scary Muslim country I don't see why you can't do that with a cruise missile, the circle would be larger but the higher speed still allows the missile to reach it's target in a similar or shorter time frame. And the first I saw 'suicide drone' was in reference to Israeli Harpy and Haarops drones when Azerbaijan invaded Artsakh, although I'm sure it predates it. The Shaheeds for instance I don't believe really qualify as a loitering munition, they operate on inertial guidance and GPS or Glonass and aren't usually controllable after firing, although I vaguely recall reading about a few being outfitted with the capability.
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Jan 1, 2023 22:22
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I would guess that “Cruise Missile” is so synonymous with American power projection in the media and public imagination that begrudging that Iran has the capability is a bridge too far. There was a very compelling article a few years back that Cruise Missiles effectively occupy the same psychological space in the American Empire that Gunboats did in the British Empire. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 22:41 on Jan 1, 2023 |
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Jan 1, 2023 22:33
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Frosted Flake posted:They now have more F-14s in service than under the Shah. It’s gotten some attention in military and aviation journals because it’s an unrivalled accomplishment. Not just still flying. They have created production lines for parts, restored airframes, made significant upgrades. It’s so far beyond flying “old” Tomcats. ah, that's really interesting and also i am incredibly unsurprised that general media has decided to just never address it
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Jan 1, 2023 22:38
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they should say that iran has nazi terror buzz bombs
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Jan 1, 2023 22:39
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Rutibex posted:they should say that iran has nazi terror buzz bombs that would be very confusing to the libs given the nazis are the good guys atm
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Jan 1, 2023 22:39
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I think the two are related. Iran isn’t supposed to have cruise missiles nor keep F-14s in service and upgrade them. These are technological and industrial accomplishments that cut against our expectations of them, which have been reinforced by decades of media depicting them as backwards and primitive, crippled by sanctions.
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Jan 1, 2023 22:45
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and, simultaneously, the greatest threat to american values on the planet
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Jan 1, 2023 22:48
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fragile ego rear end empire I tell you what
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Jan 1, 2023 22:49
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Frosted Flake posted:I would guess that “Cruise Missile” is so synonymous with American power projection in the media and public imagination that begrudging that Iran has the capability is a bridge too far. That sounds like a little bit of a stretch. I can see that if one were to argue 'American air power, and that cruise missiles are part of that". But as an outsider I certainly don't feel like cruise missiles occupy all that much of my imagined idea of American power. Not to mention soviets were also obsessed with cruise missiles, which you can kind of tell by how much they're getting used. At least Russia I imagine Russia is getting more value out of them than Russian empire did with the navy.
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Jan 1, 2023 23:58
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Think about the 90’s. The expectation was if someone caused trouble in Sudan, Afghanistan, Libya, America would carry out a cruise missile strike, exactly like sending a gunboat.
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Jan 2, 2023 00:00
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In the 90s maybe, maybe that perception is why soviets wanted to develop their own. But that definitely didn't survive to modern day, drone strikes occupy exactly that space now. You could say that's the reason why there's so much word play around UAVs and drones, and cruise missiles are not as prominent.
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Jan 2, 2023 00:03
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Centrist Committee posted:and, simultaneously, the greatest threat to american values on the planet the biggest blow to American power by Donald Trump was undermining the Iran nuclear deal and possibility of better relations between the US and Iran. however looking at this and thinking it’s anything other Russian weakness and Iranian strength is incorrect. the Russians are weaker party here. much like their relationship with the Chinese. a rational American policy would be to open up and improve relations with Iran at the expense of relations with Saudi Arabia and UAE. so it will of course not happen.
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Jan 2, 2023 00:17
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Centrist Committee posted:fragile ego rear end empire I tell you what
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Jan 2, 2023 00:25
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Bar Ran Dun posted:the biggest blow to American power by Donald Trump was undermining the Iran nuclear deal and possibility of better relations between the US and Iran. however looking at this and thinking it’s anything other Russian weakness and Iranian strength is incorrect. the Russians are weaker party here. much like their relationship with the Chinese. How is any of that about “Russian weakness” rather they are simply capitalizing on an opportunity? I guess you could say they should have made their own drones but I think that was more doctrinal blindness than anything. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 00:37 on Jan 2, 2023 |
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Jan 2, 2023 00:31
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Ardennes posted:How is any of that about “Russian weakness”? who needs? the Russians need and the Iranians have.
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Jan 2, 2023 00:39
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russia should stop losing its war so that iran has to give it fairer arms deal terms
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Jan 2, 2023 00:42
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I don't think iranian industrial capacity is up there with the refurbished remains of the USSR that Russia has.
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Jan 2, 2023 00:48
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Some people just don't believe global trade creating value for all parties 
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Jan 2, 2023 00:50
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Bar Ran Dun posted:who needs? And? It doesn't seem like the Russians are losing in the deal, if anything it seems it is forcing them to solidfy a strategic relationship they should have earlier. Real hurthling! posted:Russia should stop losing its war so that iran has to give it fairer arms deal terms It probably isn't a straight swap. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 01:16 on Jan 2, 2023 |
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Jan 2, 2023 01:11
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Tankbuster posted:I don't think iranian industrial capacity is up there with the refurbished remains of the USSR that Russia has. that they need to buy what are essentially cruise missiles is a strong indication of their lack of a current ability to produce them for themselves. they’ve got large stocks, of specific things like tanks and artillery, but seem to have issues with the ability to produce as flows things like these missiles. it’s a problem the US might eventually have too. like a decade plus worth of production of anti tank missiles has been sent over out of stocks . the supply chain to replace them generates like 1000-2000 a year and we sent well over 10,000. the Russians buying these cruise missiles is an indication the internal supply chains they have for building their own aren’t generating, aren’t working.
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Jan 2, 2023 01:15
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Iran is the appointed enemy of our ride or die middle eastern allies. they’ll never know peace with the United States. it’s effectively cuba, and just like Cuba, obamas attempt at opening up to them were out of line with the rest of the US elite and always doomed.
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Jan 2, 2023 01:18
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