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Ibblebibble posted:Am I the only person in the world who loves the aesthetics of all 3 Ala Mhigo zones? Because I do, they all own in their own ways. Yeah I think the zone aesthetic is a bit underrated in this half of StB. Also a guilty thing to say, but does anyone else mentally translate Gyr Abania to Gay Albania gently caress how did I score a page snipe with this
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Jan 2, 2023 16:17
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Craptacular! posted:Not only is the OG Yda supposed to be in her mid 30s and thus Lyse-In-A-Mask really shouldn't be fooling anyone To be fair, she wasn't fooling anyone except the one person who had never met Yda.
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Jan 2, 2023 16:25
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Feldegast42 posted:Yeah I think the zone aesthetic is a bit underrated in this half of StB.
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Jan 2, 2023 16:29
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changing out yda for lyse is honestly hilarious because it's clear they understood when writing hien's stuff that selling the audience on a twentysomething's return and sudden ascension to face of the rebellion requires a lot of effort. pretty much everything about hien (won't return until the people want it, extremely skilled warrior in a culture that prizes martial prowess as a show of virtue, other doman liberation leaders are extremely loyal to him specifically, he participated in the last rebellion and only disappeared because of injury, convenient army of extremely chill unpaid highly-skilled plug-and-play soldiers, sacrifices doma castle—among other things, a clear symbol of his own privilege and security—to win back doma for his people, etc. etc.), and by extension nearly every moment of MSQ from the steppe through the end of doma, is engineered towards making his whole return of the king thing palatable. And it still doesn't work for plenty of players! but here we are, three levels from 70, and despite devoting patch 3.5 to making yda a new character they haven't really done anything with her. the sudden inclusion of this moment with Conrad gave me the distinct feeling of watching someone really botch the space allocation on their happy birthday sign. Valentin fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jan 2, 2023 |
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Jan 2, 2023 17:15
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Valentin posted:changing out yda for lyse is honestly hilarious because it's clear they understood when writing hien's stuff that selling the audience on a twentysomething's return and sudden ascension to face of the rebellion requires a lot of effort. pretty much everything about hien (won't return until the people want it, extremely skilled warrior in a culture that prizes martial prowess as a show of virtue, other doman liberation leaders are extremely loyal to him specifically, he participated in the last rebellion and only disappeared because of injury, convenient army of extremely chill unpaid highly-skilled plug-and-play soldiers, sacrifices doma castle—among other things, a clear symbol of his own privilege and security—to win back doma for his people, etc. etc.), and by extension nearly every moment of MSQ from the steppe through the end of doma, is engineered towards making his whole return of the king thing palatable. And it still doesn't work for plenty of players! In many ways, Lyse is a lot like the Warrior of Light. They're both a bit book dumb and most in their element when they're cracking heads, but the WoL is also very good at inspiring people to do the right thing. Having Lyse grow into that aspect herself to convince Raubahn to accept full command over the Ala Mhigan forces in addition to the Alliance forces would be the perfect capstone to her arc. And hey, it also makes her leading the Resistance herself more believable. Lyse is at her best (both character-wise and competency-wise) when she's cracking heads and thinking in the heat of the moment rather than worrying about the bigger picture, so leading the Ala Mhigans under Raubahn's command works a lot better for her than calling the shots herself.
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Jan 2, 2023 17:48
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Raubahn has a job, two of them, intrinsically linked to Ul'dah. He's not available to be leader of the Ala Mihgan resistance.
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Jan 2, 2023 18:43
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The Warrior of Light has like 20 jobs by now, I'm sure he can manage
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Jan 2, 2023 18:47
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Both the Fringes and the Peaks are two takes on the same idea, while the Othard zones are 3 different ideas. It's not necessarily a problem but I personally prefer the latter.
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Jan 2, 2023 19:00
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Ala Mhigo owns and is under served, especially sadly since central Asia rarely shows up outside terrorist shoot games and grand strategy games. Also I don't think a European monoculture from a Japanese studio's fantasy setting is really a problem Yoshi P needs to fix.
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Jan 2, 2023 19:16
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:To be fair, she wasn't fooling anyone except the one person who had never met Yda. She went to Griffin's rally and natives were talking to her as if she was original Yda, which made Papa not happy. I still think it makes a lot more sense if the imposter twist hadn't happened and they hadn't gone full "nobody has seen Lyse in 20 years." Or if they did do the impostor twist but had her spend more time with the resistance, and doing the switch so that enemies don't realize that taking out one rebel also takes out a scion in their Eorzean campaign. Either way, it feels like it makes more sense why Yda is so often clueless about what's going on in Eorzea if it's because her mind was busy with the resistance. Thundarr posted:On the other hand, somebody once remarked that the core look of Ala Mhigo is "Fantasy Utah" and I can't entirely disagree. It was me. It might be Fantasy New Mexico in reality, but I'm from Nevada and Arizona and Utah were about as much as I could bear, and it's definitely not Arizona. It's also not the stereotypical depiction of Egypt and other middle eastern nations because Southern Thanalan is already that.
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Jan 2, 2023 22:07
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People just say fantasy Utah because the third zone has a large salt lake.
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Jan 2, 2023 22:18
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Craptacular! posted:It was me. It might be Fantasy New Mexico in reality, but I'm from Nevada and Arizona and Utah were about as much as I could bear, and it's definitely not Arizona. It's also not the stereotypical depiction of Egypt and other middle eastern nations because Southern Thanalan is already that. My read is that it's Anatolia - Asia Minor. Ala Mhigo gives me some fierce Ottoman Empire vibes in general.
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Jan 2, 2023 22:30
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Ibblebibble posted:Am I the only person in the world who loves the aesthetics of all 3 Ala Mhigo zones? Because I do, they all own in their own ways. I really like them, particularly the Peaks! Great music, neat landscape, and it has some of the best sunset lighting of any zone. 
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Jan 2, 2023 22:39
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I liked Ala Mhigo a lot in the end, but it's almost exclusively bercause of side quests. There's a lot of cool stuff there, the game just doesn't really highlight it. I think they absolutely could have made an expansion with only that region work, especially if they had more zones to work with. As much as I love Shadowbringers (and I do, a lot), I wish they had just done two revolution stories back to back and just... figured out how to make them distinct and interesting. This is the worst of both worlds, we get the same story twice in one expansion, and they both feel stunted and unfinished because they're jammed in there together.
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Jan 2, 2023 22:54
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Craptacular! posted:It was me. It might be Fantasy New Mexico in reality, but I'm from Nevada and Arizona and Utah were about as much as I could bear, and it's definitely not Arizona. It's also not the stereotypical depiction of Egypt and other middle eastern nations because Southern Thanalan is already that. The Fringes and Peaks very much high mountain desert. Utah/Arizona/New Mexico have those but they're mainly remembered for the big flat (as someone who's been to Kansas I'm obligated to add "-ish") prehistoric seabed parts and the interesting erosion that goes along with that. That same sort of mountain geography is all over Turkey and Iran.
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Jan 2, 2023 23:05
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:I wonder why XIV took all of the XI races pretty much 1:1, EXCEPT Galka, which got a complete visual overhaul. I'm sorry but Mithra are superior to Miqo'te. 
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Jan 2, 2023 23:38
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Kwyndig posted:People just say fantasy Utah because the third zone has a large salt lake. It's an understandable first connection if you're american, but the largest such lake is famously in central asia. Near the ruins of Samarkand and Khwarezm, which may also look familiar to someone who has played through Stormblood. I think a dungeon has some Sogdian ossuaries in it for good measure. Culturally and linguistically Ala Mhigo is all over the place -- they're Yorkshire-accented Highlanders with old german names who do kung fu and live in the Lochs. Visually it's in central asia. It is not subtle.
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Jan 2, 2023 23:42
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Ala Mhigo is this really interesting combination of so many things and it's cool and good and I love it! But it's not fantasy Japan, and lord knows there's a lot more built-in excitement among video game nerds/weebs in general for Fantasy Japan than Fantasy Mishmash Of Central Asian Elements. While it's hard to say one way or another how much the dev team had more love for everything Othardian (though I suspect it's by a notable degree), so much of the visual promotional pizzazz hype for Stormblood was UNDERWATER ASIAN PALACE, FANTASY JAPAN, KIMONOS AND SAMURAI, OH BOY OH BOY and while that bigass Rhalgr statue in the trailer is very cool, I remember at release there being just so much excitement for Final Fantasy Japan stuff and occasional expressions of people not even really caring that much about Ala Mhigo. Waaaaayyyyyy back at the start of this LP, I remember Sanguinia commenting that the Stormblood trailer felt like a recruiting movie or a propaganda piece, and really... Stormblood's trailer is very much an advertisement for the cool stuff you're gonna see and less an engagement with the actual things you're gonna go do. I can't comment on later trailers here, but I can contrast it with Heavensward's trailer that has an actual narrative within it's "look at all this cool poo poo" moments. And maybe that ties in somewhat to the split feeling and the leanness of the narrative. I genuinely like Stormblood and I will go to the mat defending it against people say that it's bad and should be skipped but... yeah, I think we've gotten far enough along in it to get a solid look at why people have the issues with it that they do. Stormblood takes us to some amazing places and hits some really strong storytelling points
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Jan 3, 2023 01:22
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Yeah I very definitely agree with the viewpoint that Stormblood is deeply flawed but also a pretty good time honestly. I'm generally on the "preferring Ala Mhigo and feeling like it got the short end along with Lyse's character arc" side of things but I still really like what's there, and even though there are a few clunkers like the old man in the quarry I think a majority of the Ala Mhigo sidequests are pretty good and memorable. At the very least, I find it to be flawed in reasonably interesting ways that are fun to discuss instead of like, really boring ways, which imo are the best flaws to have.
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Jan 3, 2023 01:36
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I agree that at Stormblood falters in some places in the MSQ, and you definitely start feeling it here, if you didn't already. Ultimately when it's all said and done though, both 4.0, and particularly the 4.1-4.5 patches, it really gets quite excellent, better than Heavensward IMO. And in terms of expansion vs expansion, not just counting the MSQ, it's not even a contest once you start taking raids, trials, dungeons, allied raids, and other content into account. I'm very excited to see Sanguinia experiencing it, and hearing their take!
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Jan 3, 2023 01:53
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Ran Rannerson posted:At the very least, I find it to be flawed in reasonably interesting ways that are fun to discuss instead of like, really boring ways, which imo are the best flaws to have. Oh gently caress yeah. Stormblood is still a rolicking good Final Fantasy adventure (and in my opinion better than what other parts of the series had been putting out around the same time), and that we have so much to discuss and that we have high enough expectations in FFXIV's story that we want to discuss it really says a lot.
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Jan 3, 2023 01:53
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Storywise, at least personally, the Stormblood patches are where you start to get to the real good stuff.
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Jan 3, 2023 01:58
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the one-word review of Stormblood is "ambitious"
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Jan 3, 2023 02:00
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FeatherFloat posted:occasional expressions of people not even really caring that much about Ala Mhigo. I absolutely do not give a poo poo about Ala Mhigo. They could have had it liberated in the background of a full expansion about Doma and I'd have been happy.
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Jan 3, 2023 02:16
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the one-word review of Stormblood is "ambitious" dyslexicfaser fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 02:23
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ON the other hand I don't poo poo about doma. The Steppes and the Ruby sea ruled and yotsuyu was a great antagonist but everything about Doman itself just kind of was aggressively mid. Mostly because it centers around Hien who is The Wise and Good King Returning To His People who doesn't really ever gently caress up anywhere or learn anything. It's why I argue that Lyse does really work here because she has been learning, and her being placed in power makes sense because Condrad's an old man that's failed to win this war for decades. A change of leadership, a hand down to the new generation given to a woman who comes walking in with the heroes of the realm that have been the knife's edge on both liberation campaigns, aided by a legendary war time general(Who would not be a great overall leader for a country/resistance because he's not good at inspiring loyalty farther than the battlefield. The 2.X series storylines show how he's often short handed in those departments.) and with the backing of the other experienced resistance members . Conrad sees that the old approaches aren't working, haven't really worked and wants to make a clean slate for a New Ala Mhigo. Which the story develops on in the rest of 4.0 and the 4.X series in a lot of really interesting ways. Ways I feel Doma fails to develop in, but that's a discussion for much much later. Yeah it's a gamble, and she's probably going to gently caress up, but so would anyone else. There's no Hien of Ala Mhigo, just regular as people making decisions and dealing with the consequences. In a lot of ways, Lyse and Conrad is meant to reflect Fordola and Zenos and that comparison is only going to touched on more. Sorry for the vague posting but we're getting very close to where I can pop off a bit more about this in the MSQ and I'm excited to get there. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 02:28
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:ON the other hand I don't poo poo about doma. The Steppes and the Ruby sea ruled and yotsuyu was a great antagonist but everything about Doman itself just kind of was aggressively mid. Mostly because it centers around Hien who is The Wise and Good King Returning To His People who doesn't really ever gently caress up anywhere or learn anything. I am total agreement with you on the vibes you've hit on for the Ala Mhigan liberation and the pieces the story has set into place. There is some good poo poo that the writers have pulled together here. Unfortunately, at least up to this point, the story's just kind of picking up all these great pieces and scrambling to get them into place, and the Lyse one is already being yeeted forward towards the expansion's climax at high speed, possibly to the piece's detriment. (I am very much looking forward to being able to engage with the rest of 4.0, and the 4.x content when we get there, too.)
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Jan 3, 2023 02:35
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:ON the other hand I don't poo poo about doma. The Steppes and the Ruby sea ruled and yotsuyu was a great antagonist but everything about Doman itself just kind of was aggressively mid. Mostly because it centers around Hien who is The Wise and Good King Returning To His People who doesn't really ever gently caress up anywhere or learn anything. This is largely my feeling as well. Lots of Othard looks cool, but looking back at 4.0, I could not give less of a poo poo about Hien or the story of Doma, a story with a single chapter. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 02:38
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ProfessorCirno posted:This is largely my feeling as well. Lots of Othard looks cool, but looking back at 3.0, I could not give less of a poo poo about Hien or the story of Doma, a story with a single chapter. And Again, no spoilers, but I have A LOT to say about Hien, Doma and Yugiri (Holy poo poo Yugiri) about learning any lessons from what's happened as we move into 4.X
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Jan 3, 2023 02:39
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I do think the "zone split in half" aspect of Stormblood's map design works against it as well. It makes finding aether currents obnoxious if there's a wall that can only be traversed with flight between you and the next one. As for the Gyr Abania zones, I ordered a friend with a mount for two to drat the spoilers and carry me to the final zone for something related to gathering and it actually wouldn't let me go in until I progressed the story further. What we did do was haul me over all the imperial walls that had yet to be broken in those zones and allow me to link up the teleporters on those sides. The developers never entirely abandoned this sort of zone design but they aren't super committed to it, either. It just seems like occasionally they have a zone that's 1/3rd early game and 2/3rds late game. Current/later content thoughts, here be spoilers: A friend who still plays told me that my least favorite Stormblood map quirk, and my least favorite Shadowbringers map quirk (the physically isolated teleporter you can't hook up until the end) are actually combined in one of the newer maps. I honestly can't understand why the dev team does that sort of thing. Especially since the Endwalker storyline isn't actively trying to direct you away from the city in question like Shadowbringers is. To me, Doma also felt awkwardly done since they had to make an entire second nation of sorts to establish as a base of operations, and justify it existing as just one city. I'm hoping that Hingashi beyond Kugane is explored someday. There is stuff out there in Stormblood's expanded map of the world. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 02:40
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:And Again, no spoilers, but I have A LOT to say about Hien, Doma and Yugiri (Holy poo poo Yugiri) about learning any lessons from what's happened as we move into 4.X Oh, agreed, but looking specifically at 4.0, Doma's story has ended. Good King Came Back, Evil Witch Defeated. The end, no moral. Either way, the Stormblood discourse has not only not ended, oh buddy, it's just now warming up. Craptacular! posted:To me, Doma also felt awkwardly done since they had to make an entire second nation of sorts to establish as a base of operations, and justify it existing as just one city. I'm hoping that Hingashi beyond Kugane is explored someday. There is stuff out there in Stormblood's expanded map of the world. This has, and will, come up constantly throughout all of Stormblood and it's subsequent patches, but man is Kugane's narrative this expansion's most baffling decision and missed opportunity.
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Jan 3, 2023 02:45
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:And Again, no spoilers, but I have A LOT to say about Hien, Doma and Yugiri (Holy poo poo Yugiri) about learning any lessons from what's happened as we move into 4.X I'd be really interested once the time comes in reading about what you have to say about Yugiri since I think she's super cool.
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Jan 3, 2023 02:47
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ProfessorCirno posted:Either way, the Stormblood discourse has not only not ended, oh buddy, it's just now warming up.. The StB discourse ride never ends!
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Jan 3, 2023 03:04
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I think Lyse, Fordola and Yotsuyu are all cool in their own ways. Scared?
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Jan 3, 2023 03:35
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Ibblebibble posted:I think Lyse, Fordola and Yotsuyu are all cool in their own ways. Scared? I mean, I agree!
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Jan 3, 2023 03:49
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There is one thing I find utterly unforgivable about Stormblood, and that is that it introduced Zenos. 
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Jan 3, 2023 03:50
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It's far too early to explain all the details of this, but my Stormblood take is that it didn't really need to fully deliver on either end of its plot because that's not the overall narrative function Stormblood serves in the overarching story that got sketched out behind the scenes mid-Heavensward. It's hard to not notice that the most excitement in any given update is for its ideas, the themes and politics and overall outlook that the expansion is contributing to the broader world, and that's what Stormblood is about, it's setting the ideals that its main characters are living by and the subjects that the story will be philosophically interested in. And, most importantly, it marks the first time that WoL is really definitely their own character with a range of things they will and won't say or do. The potential peeked its head out in 3.4 or so, but Stormblood throwing in the third dialogue option does a lot. In absence of anything else to follow up on that, just gotta remind OP to keep checking back with Steppe Grandma after every major patch. Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 03:54
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Every time someone thinks Zenos is just the worst, I will love him even more.
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Jan 3, 2023 04:00
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FeatherFloat posted:Every time someone thinks Zenos is just the worst, I will love him even more. Same, Zenos is also cool.
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Jan 3, 2023 04:04
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Ibblebibble posted:I think Lyse, Fordola and Yotsuyu are all cool in their own ways. Scared? FeatherFloat posted:Every time someone thinks Zenos is just the worst, I will love him even more. Agreed all around.
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Jan 3, 2023 04:14
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