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LeeMajors posted:Every hospital ICU is chock full of geriatric ROSC patients with no Avenue to good neuro outcomes. We absolutely know nothing other than his heart is still beating. Nah, by the time they would get to me they’d have already been stabilized in the field.
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Jan 3, 2023 15:54
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Maybe I'm cynical, but I suspect the only long-term thing that will come out of this (for the NFL) will be better training and making sure the right equipment is available in every stadium. In a situation like this, what else could have been done though? The amount of times a situation like this has happened you can count on one hand across several sports. NFL and other sports absolutely need to increase player safety protocols especially in view of what’s happened to Tua and others but this was such a freak accident I don’t know what could be done to have prevented it or to have made the reaction any better.
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Jan 3, 2023 15:54
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Bottom Liner posted:Major league (and probably all forms of) football will not and should not exist within 20 years. There really is just no way to safely play the sport where every single play has impact and trauma by design, and all the safety gear in the world only makes that worse because they'll never stop g-forces and players feeling more protected which counterintuitively makes them destroy their bodies more. tbf if it is commotio cordis then it's something that could happen in any sport - I think this happens in youth baseball every now and then. but football is unique in that the goal really is to hurt people, so even if this is a 'fluke injury' it's also part of the game. it's not like a fastball rocketing off the bat into a pitcher's chest. idk Ryan Clark was really good last night talking about this stuff, even if it is a freak injury it's happening in a sport where players routinely say they're willing to "give it all" and it kinda turns out human beings aren't really equipped to do that and that maybe you're loving these people up like you do in the military
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Jan 3, 2023 15:55
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His GoFundMe is at $3.5M, Jesus Christ
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Jan 3, 2023 15:56
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yea, i don't think it's possible to fault the nfl's health preparation and readiness here. something like this could happen in any sport, even flag football or whatever alternatives people were dreaming up last night. it's just an unfortunate situation. life isn't fair. etc.
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Jan 3, 2023 15:56
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Spaced God posted:His GoFundMe is at $3.5M, Jesus Christ That’s amazing. It was at like $2500 before last night e: the toys for kids one, idk if there’s another one that’s been set up for him
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Jan 3, 2023 15:57
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JAMOOOL posted:tbf if it is commotio cordis then it's something that could happen in any sport - I think this happens in youth baseball every now and then. but football is unique in that the goal really is to hurt people, so even if this is a 'fluke injury' it's also part of the game. it's not like a fastball rocketing off the bat into a pitcher's chest. idk Ryan Clark was really good last night talking about this stuff, even if it is a freak injury it's happening in a sport where players routinely say they're willing to "give it all" and it kinda turns out human beings aren't really equipped to do that and that maybe you're loving these people up like you do in the military If it's that, I would honestly expect them to continue as normal unless they are able to identify anything specific regarding equipment or expertise that should have been in place that wasn't. With Phil Hughes, the ultimate conclusion was that sometimes poo poo just happens even if you're doing something hundreds of people do all the time without it happening before, and there's nothing more you can reasonably do. Even the new helmet neck guards they mandated afterwards would likely not have helped him, by all accounts.
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Jan 3, 2023 15:59
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People want to poo poo on the nfl, and I get it because they deserve it But everything related to this incident has been handled appropriately so far and it really comes across weird when people are high horse posting There’s nothing anyone can do except be worried for Hamlin and his family and we’re all powerless in that regard, so it just really is the time for good posting with the mates tbqh
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Jan 3, 2023 16:01
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In terms of the actual incident itself, i don't think there's anything else the NFL could do to mitigate something like that happening other than just dissolving the league and making football illegal. On the subject of suspending the game on the other hand, that's a different matter.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:03
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LeeMajors posted:
I'll answer your first question. PAs are required to do an ACLS course as part of school. (Note that this is advanced cardiac life support, not really anything to do with trauma) However, whether or not you keep it up to date is based on the job you do moving forward. Any ICU/hospitalist based job will require you to keep current, but in general it is not a requirement, especially for specialist positions.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:05
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Apples McGrind posted:On the subject of suspending the game on the other hand, that's a different matter. They suspended the game in an hour. I actually think they moved pretty quickly, all things considered. Do you guys think suspending a game is just a matter of Goodell pressing a big red button in his office or something?
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Jan 3, 2023 16:06
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Professor Funk posted:They suspended the game in an hour. I actually think they moved pretty quickly, all things considered. Do you guys think suspending a game is just a matter of Goodell pressing a big red button in his office or something? I think they more mean the whole "5 Minutes to get back to football thing" which I'm still not a hundred percent sure is real or just Joe Buck trying to fill the dead air
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Jan 3, 2023 16:07
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Apples McGrind posted:In terms of the actual incident itself, i don't think there's anything else the NFL could do to mitigate something like that happening other than just dissolving the league and making football illegal. We had many people in here last night screeching about the 5 minutes and temporary suspension stuff being Roger Goodell like Dr. claw with his hand on a lever, meanwhile it’s exactly as I predicted - the refs or someone said “normally it’s a 5 minute warmup”, everyone agreed that wasn’t appropriated and to temporarily suspend to get some clarity, and the game was then fully postponed due to the gravity of the situation while they try and figure out what to do. Hard to think of any way it could have been handled better and boy do I want the NFL to take a huge black eye whenever possible.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:07
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yea I agree this looks like a fluke thing that could've happened in any sport so it's not like the Tua situation where a team is just flagrantly ignoring a player's safety and long term health. still though injuries are such a baked-in part of football culture in a way that you don't see in other sports (other than hockey I suppose) and it did occur on a routine play that happens 100 times every game which I am guessing will leave a lot of players shook up. so it doesn't really feel like the Dale Earnhardt situation.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:08
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The biggest crime last night was ESPN forcing us to listen to Schefter.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:08
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Spaced God posted:I think they more mean the whole "5 Minutes to get back to football thing" which I'm still not a hundred percent sure is real or just Joe Buck trying to fill the dead air I don't think there's any evidence that the NFL was saying "get back out and play." What it seems like is the officials fell back on the normal policy for serious on-field injuries (and I think some tweets posted in this thread confirmed that), and in the meantime the two coaches (admirably) spoke and decided they weren't going back out there. But I don't think there's anything to substantiate this narrative that the NFL office in New York was trying to force the teams to restart the game.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:09
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and yeah the whole "you have 5 minutes" thing looks terrible and heartless but you know in situations like this bad info gets passed around very quickly, seems likely some ref said that to the coaches because that's what the standard rule is and the NFL just doesn't have a contingency in case of a player suffering a cardiac event on the field
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Jan 3, 2023 16:10
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Both Tua incidents are 100% worse in terms of the NFL’s systemic failure to protect player health and cultural culpability generally than this insanely freak accident. The Chris Pronger NHL incident is looking more and more like the proper comparable here :/
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Jan 3, 2023 16:10
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JAMOOOL posted:and yeah the whole "you have 5 minutes" thing looks terrible and heartless but you know in situations like this bad info gets passed around very quickly, seems likely some ref said that to the coaches because that's what the standard rule is and the NFL just doesn't have a contingency in case of a player suffering a cardiac event on the field i mean maybe it's worth it for the NFL to have the contingency in place going forward?
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Jan 3, 2023 16:12
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Apples McGrind posted:i mean maybe it's worth it for the NFL to have the contingency in place going forward? Like idk what else you really wanted to happen. It sucks and everyone feels helpless but I’m really not sure how else it could have been handled
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Jan 3, 2023 16:13
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JAMOOOL posted:and yeah the whole "you have 5 minutes" thing looks terrible and heartless but you know in situations like this bad info gets passed around very quickly, seems likely some ref said that to the coaches because that's what the standard rule is and the NFL just doesn't have a contingency in case of a player suffering a cardiac event on the field I posted it last night but anyone with any sort of experience in high stress crisis management (think high alpine rescue) could guess pretty solidly that they were going through the “what’s normal->what’s different here->what do we need to loving do to do right” cycle.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:13
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Maybe I'm cynical, but I suspect the only long-term thing that will come out of this (for the NFL) will be better training and making sure the right equipment is available in every stadium. I mean, if it's an underlying issue what got missed or was the result of an impact at just the right moment in just the right place, is there anything they can do? Maybe have EMTs on the sideline, roughly at the line of scrimmage instead of at the ambulance?
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Jan 3, 2023 16:13
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Apples McGrind posted:i mean maybe it's worth it for the NFL to have the contingency in place going forward? It played out last night 2 doctors and a neurologist are at every game Ambulance and crew are present on standby AEDs are all over the place these days He has the best possible chance
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Jan 3, 2023 16:14
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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:I posted it last night but anyone with any sort of experience in high stress crisis management (think high alpine rescue) could guess pretty solidly that they were going through the “what’s normal->what’s different here->what do we need to loving do to do right” cycle. Yeah I also think everyone forgets this wasn't a normal day at the office for the officials either, they would clearly have been affected by the incident too
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Jan 3, 2023 16:15
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Cthulu Carl posted:I mean, if it's an underlying issue what got missed or was the result of an impact at just the right moment in just the right place, is there anything they can do? Maybe have EMTs on the sideline, roughly at the line of scrimmage instead of at the ambulance? Let’s just implant defibrillators in every NFL player the day after the draft.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:15
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wyoak posted:I think the contingency played out last night Exactly this. Decision-makers were empowered to and given space make the right call and cultural / moral principles guided the mutual discussion. Honestly, and again I hate to under any circumstances “hand it to them”, but the league and teams will probably come off looking good here with respect to crisis management.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:16
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I hope y'all are doing okay today
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Jan 3, 2023 16:16
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Yeah, if it turns out to be commotio cordis the only thing I could imagine the NFL changing here is if something like his gear interfered with them performing CPR or AED. For example if they had to spend 2 or 3 minutes figuring out how to tear off his shoulder pads that's might be something worth exploring if they can fix somehow. FWIW I think covid speculation should be okay here, but if you're not someone who usually posts in TFF and usually posts in politics/covid megathreads you should post about it there, not here. MJeff posted:So wait, did the dude have covid six weeks ago or what? I've heard it mentioned twice but couldn't find anything saying it on google or twitter or anything, because, well, searching "Hamlin covid" gets you exactly what you'd think it would right now. I tried going back to October 2022 and excluding anything past Jan 1 2022 in Reddit, Google news Search, and Twitter and I can't find any reference to him having covid prior to last night. Maybe I'm searching wrong, but so far I found noting.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:20
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Yeah I wanted to be mad at the NFL as a kneejerk but I think the whole immediate "What the gently caress is going on and what do we do" was actually pretty reasonable and pretty quickly decisive for the better.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:20
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wyoak posted:I think the contingency played out last night alright yeah, i suppose that's fair. I guess my instinct is just to look for solutions to make sure things like this don't happen again, but i guess when someone goes down with a heart attack on the field, there's gonna be some sort of chaos in the moment regardless of the systems of communication you have in place.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:20
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I think the league was lucky that the personalities involved in the game were well suited to handle something like this. Imagine if the other team had a Schiano style coach. The NFL definitely has people at every level who could have made that much worse than it was.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:22
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Cthulu Carl posted:I mean, if it's an underlying issue what got missed or was the result of an impact at just the right moment in just the right place, is there anything they can do? Maybe have EMTs on the sideline, roughly at the line of scrimmage instead of at the ambulance? At Metlife, at least, the East Rutherford rescue squad guys assigned to the field hang out just inside the home team tunnel during the game.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:22
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Eifert Posting posted:I think the league was lucky that the personalities involved in the game were well suited to handle something like this. Imagine if the other team had a Schiano style coach. The NFL definitely has people at every level who could have made that much worse than it was. I just had the horrifying thought of how urban meyer would handle this
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Jan 3, 2023 16:22
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It's entirely possible that Chuck Hughes saved Hamlin's life. After Hughes' heart issues caused his death while playing, severe heart trauma was a possibility the medical staff had to be ready for.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:23
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Apples McGrind posted:alright yeah, i suppose that's fair. All the medical staff is constantly re-evaluating every protocol for safety and emergency response and I guarantee they’ve put hundreds or thousands more hours into it than any of us. Short of banning football of course (probably the only actual solution). Those pads are designed to come off quickly and completely when needed.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:23
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Spaced God posted:I just had the horrifying thought of how urban meyer would handle this Can you perform CPR by kicking?
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Jan 3, 2023 16:24
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LeeMajors posted:All the medical staff is constantly re-evaluating every protocol for safety and emergency response and I guarantee they’ve put hundreds or thousands more hours into it than any of us. my concerns were more about the NFL handling the aftermath and canceling the game. I know the medical personnel basically did everything they could and probably handled it in the best possible way.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:25
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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:Both Tua incidents are 100% worse in terms of the NFL’s systemic failure to protect player health and cultural culpability generally than this insanely freak accident. Let's hope so. Pronger made a full recovery and made the Hall of Fame.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:25
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Apples McGrind posted:my concerns were more about the NFL handling the aftermath and canceling the game. I know the medical personnel basically did everything they could and probably handled it in the best possible way. Yeah the NFL sucks rear end, but I can't find a single thing to criticize in how they've handled the situation
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Jan 3, 2023 16:27
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Eifert Posting posted:I think the league was lucky that the personalities involved in the game were well suited to handle something like this. Imagine if the other team had a Schiano style coach. The NFL definitely has people at every level who could have made that much worse than it was. Schiano is much less of a piece of poo poo than you're implying here. He really handled the Eric LeGrand situation very well.
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