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Counterpoint: my eight year old looks forward to doing a daily check of amiibo drops
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Jan 2, 2023 03:02
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The only one that really matters is getting Epona, to the point where I had a couple of coworkers ask to borrow my SSB Link as the resale value on it skyrocketed to $100 or something after BOTW came out. The Zelda themed amiibos skyrocketed in price, and I had most of them because I had bought Hyrule Chronicales for WiiU and was slowly buying them up at the time when I found them for a good price. Going off Ebay prices they're still some of the most expensive amiibos by far. The epona Link is now $120 and almost all off them are at least $70.
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Jan 2, 2023 03:03
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pentyne posted:The only one that really matters is getting Epona, to the point where I had a couple of coworkers ask to borrow my SSB Link as the resale value on it skyrocketed to $100 or something after BOTW came out. The Zelda themed amiibos skyrocketed in price, and I had most of them because I had bought Hyrule Chronicales for WiiU and was slowly buying them up at the time when I found them for a good price. Jesus Christ... I have most of the BoTW Amiibos- the Guardian one is still one of the best figs around imo. I'm glad I got them all for retail.
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Jan 2, 2023 07:02
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It was crazy. At the beginning of 2017, you could find the Zelda related amiibos everywhere. I remember seeing a bunch of them at walmart. I didn't realize you could use them to get items in BotW. Then when I realized you could do that, I went back to Walmart and they were all gone, and gone from every store that might sell them.
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Jan 2, 2023 09:00
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Speaking of Amiibos... https://nintendowire.com/news/2023/01/03/report-massive-zelda-amiibo-re-stock-coming-just-in-time-for-tears-of-the-kingdom/ I can finally pick up a Zelda and Midna amiibo.
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Jan 3, 2023 17:51
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I wonder if it will be WW or not. For Splatoon 3, it seemed like they did a rerun of everything for Europe and Japan but the US only got some of them and a bunch only as store exclusives.
Shiroc fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 20:00
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I finished my time with BOTW. My Switch playthrough ended up in the same place as my WiiU one, where it is very exciting exploring at first but then the overall lack of variety in the game slowly drains my interest. My least favorite of the 3D Zeldas.
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Jan 7, 2023 21:50
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I respect your opinion, but it’s a bananas opinion
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Jan 7, 2023 23:26
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I like going to different themed dungeons. Something like the surprise of the Buddhist dungeon in Skyward Sword is way more compelling to me than another Test of Strength in the same visual design of shrines that I’ve been seeing since the first 30 minutes of the game. The gimmicks of the old bosses are more memorable than 4 basically identical Ganon blobs that you just kinda face tank since they couldn’t assume you had anything in particular. The stuff that’s all about breaking the physics engine isn’t at all interesting to me.
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Jan 8, 2023 00:40
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Most of the dungeon-shrines did feel pretty lackluster but the rest of the game made up for it, imo. Would have traded most of the shrines to instead have another divine dungeon which were really fun.
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Jan 8, 2023 00:44
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having recently replayed the game the main story content and dungeons do feel incredibly slight, but I was a lot less harsh on rerunning the shrines than I was expecting. though a lot of that has to do with 100%ing them the first time and being disappointed by how simple most of them are versus this time just going for enough to grab the MS and liking how fast I could clear them. still a good game but I'm really hoping that TotK has deeper content attached to the main quest than doing one really simple task then immediately going into the dungeon.
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Jan 8, 2023 00:56
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Wind Waker is my favorite. I really enjoyed sailing, which scratched a similar ‘what’s over the horizon?’ exploring itch. There was also a ton of weird, mysterious locations in both the main story and the side stuff so it always was exciting to find out what was coming next. OoT has my overall favorite set of dungeons because they all have very strong sense of place while also being slightly weird and dream logic. The room with Dark Link is neat because it is so strange even before he suddenly attacks you.
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Jan 8, 2023 01:00
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Shiroc posted:I like going to different themed dungeons. Something like the surprise of the Buddhist dungeon in Skyward Sword is way more compelling to me than another Test of Strength in the same visual design of shrines that I’ve been seeing since the first 30 minutes of the game. The gimmicks of the old bosses are more memorable than 4 basically identical Ganon blobs that you just kinda face tank since they couldn’t assume you had anything in particular. As someone that has hundreds of hours logged in BOTW and considers it the greatest game ever made, I agree with all of this and hope it isn’t still the case in TOTK
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Jan 8, 2023 01:13
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Shiroc posted:I like going to different themed dungeons. Something like the surprise of the Buddhist dungeon in Skyward Sword is way more compelling to me than another Test of Strength in the same visual design of shrines that I’ve been seeing since the first 30 minutes of the game. The gimmicks of the old bosses are more memorable than 4 basically identical Ganon blobs that you just kinda face tank since they couldn’t assume you had anything in particular. I've said it before, but I don't like ranking BotW against the other 3D games because it loses on account of that exact stuff that I specifically want from a Zelda game. But there's so many other aspects of its design that exceed everything else that it doesn't feel right to put it at the bottom of a list, I feel like I've spent more total time playing it than all of the others combined. So I guess it gets its own list, "best Breath of the Wild game", at least until the next one comes out.
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Jan 8, 2023 01:32
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The shrines of Breath of the Wild are kind of the weakest part, since those tend to be very linear and have just the one aesthetic. Not really a complex experience. I can see that if you prefer the dungeons of Zelda you'd be disappointed with them. Even the beasts, while fun and interesting, lack a lot of the dynamic feel of most Zelda dungeons. There's not as much of an arc, you don't gain anything special during the dungeon, and the dungeon interiors aren't very pretty. Those are all the price the game pays to create one of the biggest, most open worlds in videogames and give you the ability to explore all around. There's even some complex arcs that you kind of blunder into while exploring around. I always preferred the overworld parts of Zelda, the traveling throughout the world from place to place to find the next thing, seeing all the people and possible sidequests and nooks and crannies to look into, rather than when you're thrown into a hole with only one real goal and no real story or lore. One of my favorite Zelda Dungeons is the mansion in Twilight Princess just because it hides the fact that it's a dungeon for a little while instead of being just an improbably complex temple in the middle of nowhere. And in the grand scheme of things, the Zelda series was really suffering from the overworld getting less complex and varied and the overall story of the game getting more linear, so Breath of the Wild going all-in on a sort of throwback to the first game where they just throw you into a big world to figure it out yourself was needed. The structure of the game as a whole matters much more than the individual dungeons.
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Jan 8, 2023 02:09
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https://i.imgur.com/REiGObv.gifv
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Jan 8, 2023 03:16
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Captain Hygiene posted:I've said it before, but I don't like ranking BotW against the other 3D games because it loses on account of that exact stuff that I specifically want from a Zelda game. But there's so many other aspects of its design that exceed everything else that it doesn't feel right to put it at the bottom of a list, I feel like I've spent more total time playing it than all of the others combined. So I guess it gets its own list, "best Breath of the Wild game", at least until the next one comes out. I think I can't separate them BOTW out from the other 3D ones because it maintains so many of the same gameplay concepts and structures, it just remixes the presentations. A lot of the exploration freedom comes from removing the more linear direction and connective elements that you would have gotten in the previous games. Like a classic dungeon would maybe be equivalent to some number of shrines worth of puzzles/fights/stuff. But now instead of being directed to the Desert Temple, those dungeon elements are placed discretely around the map, some with quests, some to stumble upon, some with just characters giving a pointer to, etc. That's why I think that TotK has a path to combine strengths of the BOTW design priorities with the ones from the older 3D* games into something that I'll really love. *Separating out the 2D games from 3D games for me is mostly in how I relate to the virtual spaces themselves, which is a significant part of what I like about games, since obviously you could otherwise argue that the gameplay concepts and structures of the series overall isn't that different between 2D and 3D
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Jan 8, 2023 03:21
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If they can do the exact same overall design as BotW but make the dungeons actually varied/ bigger, eliminate/merge the shrines into them, I think you'd have the perfect 3D Zelda.
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Jan 8, 2023 03:29
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Even just a bit of visual variety would have drastically improved the divine beasts and shrines.
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Jan 8, 2023 03:46
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I'd like to see the whole weapon/shield collection system thrown out. Give Link something like a Goddess Version of different types of weapons and have a way to swap elements on them if they want to keep having a variety of things. Also make the enemies more unique.
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Jan 8, 2023 03:54
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I really liked the visual design of the shrines and dungeons in BotW, they indicated that they're designed to be tinkered with, in a way in keeping with the increased physicality of the puzzles. There's a bit of a science museum hand-on display feel going on with the visual and musical aesthetic. The beasts in particular do feel like they have themes, just that the themes are less elemental and more mechanical (and they're still very, very pretty, especially since they each have times where you have to go outside). Vah Naboris and Vah Ruta are my favorites; their puzzles don't feel like five small ones, they feel like they're building on each other to create one cohesive experience. Ruta especially makes you think about bigger and bigger elements of the dungeon's space with each successive puzzle.
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Jan 8, 2023 03:58
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Shiroc posted:I'd like to see the whole weapon/shield collection system thrown out. Give Link something like a Goddess Version of different types of weapons and have a way to swap elements on them if they want to keep having a variety of things. Yeah, enemy variety is pitiful in BotW. Just give us like, two unique enemies per region so combat feels varied from area to area. Why are there lizardmen in the snow zone, what snow lizards have y'all seen?
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Jan 8, 2023 04:00
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BOTW is literally my favorite game of all time and I still agree with all of Shiroc’s complaints. I’m glad they went all out in a new direction because the series was getting dangerously stale with Skyward Sword. Just a completely linear experience from start to finish. And I love BOTW for what it is but if they find a way to merge more classic Zelda dungeon design/variety into the formula, they’d have the perfect game. One of the many things that Elden Ring got right is that it has quite a lot of traditional Souls areas in the game. The castles, mansions, caves, etc. are interwoven seamlessly into the world but would fit right into Dark Souls. The closest thing that BOTW has are the Divine Beasts and the Castle, none of which take very long to complete. The Divine Beasts aren’t integrated into the world around them – they’re separate objects with their own loading zones that could be placed anywhere on the map. Even the content of Hyrule Castle is completely skippable since you can beeline right to the throne room. The ability to just climb over everything is amazing but it also means that almost every little set piece can be avoided if you want. It’s looking like TOTK’s sky areas won’t really give you that option and will probably have more traditional layouts, but I could be wrong. Here’s also hoping we get a lot of caves like in the initial reveal trailer, because that’ll force the player to stay grounded which is what Zelda has traditionally been about. I posted this gif before the game came out and said something like “I can’t believe Nintendo are making this real” as a joke but no, they really did make this real.
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Jan 8, 2023 04:11
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The behavior of each enemy is extremely detailed, but it might have been more impressive to have the same amount of behaviors spread across more different enemies.
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Jan 8, 2023 04:14
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Yes, BOTW is probably the best game I've played in 20+ years but it isn't perfect. I remember during pre-release news, the Divine Beasts seemed more akin to Shadow of the Colossus creatures that you just kind of stumble upon and have to defeat. Instead, they were completely quarantined and telegraphed from, literally, miles away. TOTK will never be "better" than BOTW because it's ultimately derivative but it can refine the BOTW formula to the point where going back to BOTW will feel like a downgrade. I doubt I'll ever get that feeling back from leaving the Plateau and having the whole mysterious world open to me but TOTK can probably do everything else better, from QoL improvements, legit dungeons, new mechanics and a better plot. BOTW was many things but a story-driven narrative was not one of them. As an aside, if I really want to critique BOTW, I think it was given a huge opportunity for but missed was large set-pieces. Outside of the Divine Beasts, you get a grand total of one set-piece battle (the battle with the blight dragon). I don't count the Beast Ganon fight because it was more of a cutscene and it was quarantined off. I suppose fighting some of the larger monsters could count but the game's environment seemed specifically tailored to allow for large cinematic experiences and it just never really did it. I don't necessarily mean God of War QT events necessarily but more random encounters like the blight dragon. That was a hell of a good time, especially when I first encountered it (which was rather early). I hope TOTK does more of that.
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Jan 8, 2023 04:39
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FooF posted:As an aside, if I really want to critique BOTW, I think it was given a huge opportunity for but missed was large set-pieces. Outside of the Divine Beasts, you get a grand total of one set-piece battle (the battle with the blight dragon). I don't count the Beast Ganon fight because it was more of a cutscene and it was quarantined off. I suppose fighting some of the larger monsters could count but the game's environment seemed specifically tailored to allow for large cinematic experiences and it just never really did it. I don't necessarily mean God of War QT events necessarily but more random encounters like the blight dragon. That was a hell of a good time, especially when I first encountered it (which was rather early). I hope TOTK does more of that. Hell yeah, that battle kicked rear end - the (Sonic spoilers) second Titan battle in Sonic Frontiers was kinda the same way but on a much grander scale and it was one of the greatest boss battles I've ever played. More battles like this in TOTK would absolutely set it apart from BOTW
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Jan 8, 2023 05:13
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One thing that can be said about BotW - that can't be said by almost any other game, save for Elden Ring and a few others in the past - is that nearly all of its weaknesses are on purpose, by design Its dungeons are lame precisely because it's not a game where dungeons are meant to be important. It's not that they prioritized them and failed in their creation, it's that they were a lower priority and treated accordingly. Similarly with other things like enemy variety That surely sounds pedantic, but the reason BotW is so drat special is that they focused the lion's share of their design and development on the things that were most important for the kind of game it wanted to be. We can picture and theorize a BotW that has Zelda-style dungeons or more unique enemy encounters, but translating that to reality means they would have had to shift their priorities and cause the areas they mastered to suffer, be less perfect It has plenty of faults, but these weaknesses are what enabled the designers create one of the best games of all times. It'll be interesting to see what TOTK wants to be, because my gut tells me it'll be more Zelda-like but be lesser in terms of what BOTW accomplished, and in doing so will produce a classic gamer argument that will last for decades
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Jan 8, 2023 05:40
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I've said this before, but I get the distinct impression that Tears will disappoint a lot of people, particularly those who played and beat Elden Ring. The comparisons may not be fair but they will exist and they will be many; I've already seen several people over the past year say Elden Ring was the game they wished BOTW was. Right now, Nintendo basically has 2 sets of impossible expectations to meet with Tears, but it's also hard to understate how much BOTW exceeded its own expectations.
Manoueverable fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 06:01
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Having played both I don't really see the similarity, but I never got people treating Souls and Zelda as the exact same thing either besides very abstract "what I imagined Z1/2 were like" stuff. But even that's just recognizing the shared roots in old PC dungeon crawlers that old zelda and from games quickly went in different directions from.
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Jan 8, 2023 06:25
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however it would be very funny for botw to get massively overrated from the "they made IP openworld, 11/10" effect only for totk to be an overall improvement but flop with people due to that wearing off
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Jan 8, 2023 06:28
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There's a vague relation between Zelda and Souls, in that there's going to be some kind of influence in big popular hack and slash games. When Skyward Sword added a stamina meter, that seemed to me like it took inspiration from Demon Souls, and Breath of the Wild developing the combat further kinda felt Souls-y just because that was the leading franchise when it came to that kind of combat. But also Zelda invented that kind of lock-on 3D combat, especially with sword and board. I kinda ran out of steam for Elden Ring because I just kept getting overwhelmed by a feeling of ennui when playing it. It's hard to explain, it was like I just kept feeling there was no point to anything. I guess aesthetically the game does everything it can to seem kinda bleak and monotone, and I just wasn't finding the world itself compelling to explore. Then gameplay-wise I just wasn't feeling engaged. I wasn't finding interesting weapons to switch to, so much of the open world kinda felt vapid to me. The more interesting areas were the ones that were enclosed so they could have proper Souls level design, but those were few and far between, and of course the smaller "prefab" dungeons with no story to them weren't compelling to me either, and those were a lot more tedious that BOTW shrines.
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Jan 8, 2023 07:10
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Manoueverable posted:I've said this before, but I get the distinct impression that Tears will disappoint a lot of people, particularly those who played and beat Elden Ring. The comparisons may not be fair but they will exist and they will be many; I've already seen several people over the past year say Elden Ring was the game they wished BOTW was. Right now, Nintendo basically has 2 sets of impossible expectations to meet with Tears, but it's also hard to understate how much BOTW exceeded its own expectations. I'm just going to assume that the people working on Tears haven't played Elden Ring at all and won't learn anything from it. I've been playing Elden Ring and I'm having fun with it. It would be nice if they took some notes from it, but they probably won't. Nintendo always does what it wants.
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Jan 8, 2023 07:15
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I have faith in the Zelda team, the game has been cooking for five or six years I’m sure they’ve made smart improvements to progression and have heard the complaints about the dungeons and bosses looking samey
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Jan 8, 2023 07:18
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Do FromSoft games really have puzzles? I haven’t played them much because I bounce off hard whenever I’ve tried but I don’t really remember any. My impression was that their emphasis was always exploration and more involved fighting systems.
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Jan 8, 2023 07:52
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The only real Soulsborne "puzzles" I can think of are really weird random thing that tend to be optional and figuring out NPC questlines because those are so easy to mess up. Nothing really of the "push block" in right order/path to open door.
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Jan 8, 2023 09:33
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I predict that the design element that will most strongly separate Tears of the Kingdom from Breath of the Wild will be one that will not be featured in any marketing material until after the game's launch, and which any leaker coming into possession of an early copy will struggle to describe accurately.
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Jan 8, 2023 12:11
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I'm fairly sure Miyazaki cited BOTW as an inspiration for Elden Ring. It definitely puts you in a similar style of open world: minimal direction, big natural landscapes, not throwing map markers all over the place. But ER is still ultimately fairly linear in how you reveal the map whereas BOTW is just total open from the word go. And the two games play very differently. TOTK definitely won't take any inspiration from ER, because we can assume that game has been basically finished for awhile because Nintendo goes through very thorough quality control with their main IPs. I would be very surprised if it's not just overall a better game than BOTW, but they're not going to capture that magic again. BOTW changed the entire gaming landscape. I'm just excited to see how Nintendo improves on the formula.
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Jan 8, 2023 16:20
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Most of the "puzzles" in the Soulsborne games are of the "find the secret paths/areas/shortcuts" variety, but they also have a smattering of more traditional puzzle-solving, though a lot of them are garbage (getting into the Converted Fringe Tower in Elden Ring and "show your humanity" in the DS3 DLC being the worst offenders). Elden Ring had one dungeon in particular that was excellent with several WTF moments before the player figures out what is going on. The fact that all of the dungeons before it were so repetitive and annoying and boring actually add to the effect.
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Jan 8, 2023 16:27
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Manoueverable posted:I've said this before, but I get the distinct impression that Tears will disappoint a lot of people, particularly those who played and beat Elden Ring. The comparisons may not be fair but they will exist and they will be many; I've already seen several people over the past year say Elden Ring was the game they wished BOTW was. Right now, Nintendo basically has 2 sets of impossible expectations to meet with Tears, but it's also hard to understate how much BOTW exceeded its own expectations. Yeah but so the gently caress what. Tears will sell a ton and be enjoyed because not everyone who played BoTW played Elden Ring. And not everyone who wants to play Tears wants to be in the grand world of nihilism that ER is in. You are overthinking things.
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Jan 8, 2023 17:07
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Given that the bar for "puzzle" can be pretty low in Zelda, I think you could argue that a number of situations in the Souls games count, like when you need to use switches to shift things around and access new areas, the boulders in Sen's Fortress, poking around to find a hidden area to beat an enemy that has been blocking your way, or unlocking shortcuts, but there's not really the sort of Zelda "lock the player in a room to figure out a puzzle and play a chime when they figure it out" sort of thing. The more complex combat also means that strategy for encountering enemies can be a sort of puzzle with more than one solution. I also feel like Sen's Fortress can sort of be looked at as a platforming challenge, because even without jumping there's a similar experience. There are actual platforming challenges in the Souls games, but they suck because the games weren't really designed for that sort of thing.
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Jan 8, 2023 17:13
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