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The Ptolemies won the Diadochi thunderdome and have basically reformed Alexander's Empire? 
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Jan 3, 2023 18:43
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Just as a matter of curiosity, because I'm not super familiar with Imperator's gameplay: what sort of peace options would we have had if we'd tried to wrap things up with all of southern/Iberian Rome occupied but before they managed to wrap up the Gallic wars/Hannibal got himself killed?
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Jan 3, 2023 19:58
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JT Jag posted:Just as a matter of curiosity, because I'm not super familiar with Imperator's gameplay: what sort of peace options would we have had if we'd tried to wrap things up with all of southern/Iberian Rome occupied but before they managed to wrap up the Gallic wars/Hannibal got himself killed? I think at that point they weren't willing to negotiate at all, there are a bunch of modifiers like length of war that stops the AI from peacing out too early If those occupations held a few more years though, then probably could've taken a decent chunk of southern Italy (and that little piece of Iberia they had)
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Jan 3, 2023 20:04
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Does the Maccabee revolt still happen in Invictus? It's absolutely my least favorite part of trying to control the Levant and makes it a historically huge pain in the rear end to try and integrate the province
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Jan 3, 2023 20:57
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 Part 6 — Interbellum — 150 BCE to 85 BCE The Mediterranean is at peace, for the first time in almost seventy years. The Mediterranean is at peace, though dozens of towns and cities across Magna Graecia are sacked and demolished, never to be reborn; though the seafloor beneath the straits of Sicily is strewn with hundreds of shipwrecks; though the battlefields of Iberia and Italia, Sicily and Sardinia, Gaul and Corsica, are littered with unmarked graves and bloodstained crosses. The Mediterranean is at peace, a peace that will be shattered by the Third Punic War.  But the struggle between Carthage and Rome wasn’t entirely unique in the ancient world. Mirroring their climactic battles in the west were the Diadochi successors in the east, with the Ptolemaioi and Seleukidai having waged half a dozen wars without settling their competing claims over Coele-Syria, much less the rest of Alexander’s empire.  The Ptolemies had managed to secure control over Palestinia, homeland of the infamously troublesome Jewish and Phoenician peoples, who launched several uprisings against the harsh rule of the Macedonian tyrants. Unsurprisingly, the self-proclaimed Pharaohs put these rebellions down with brutal force — in fact, so sickening were the descriptions of their sacking of Tyre, mother city of Carthage, that there were many furious senators in the Adirim openly calling for war against the barbarous Macedonians… but their conflict with Rome took precedence, and any such undertaking had to be postponed.    And while the Ptolemies engaged in slaughter and butchery, their Seleukid rivals were forced to contend with barbarians to the north —     The chieftain of one of these invading hordes, the Parthians, even managed to slay Basileus Antiochos III in battle, a stunning victory that won his people all the lands between the Oxos and the Harborz.  And the rumour and tradetalk that trickled from those places even further east, beyond the Gedrosian Desert and across the River Indus, spoke of the collapse of a great empire, and chaos engulfing a most vast and wealthy continent…   Distant wars and faraway wonders, as far as those in Carthage and Rome were concerned. They might have only just ended their own long and costly war — during which Rome had suffered a harsh sacking, whilst Carthage saw her navy sunk and her most gifted general mounted on a cross — but even so, the two powers immediately began preparations for the war that was certain to come. Fortresses were restored, warships were constructed, and the Adirim even sanctioned the formation of an elite unit of citizen-soldiers, in the same vein as the legions of Rome.    And yet, as year followed on year and the tenuous peace continued unbroken, both Carthage and Rome began to prosper. Carthage’s coffers (and the pocket of many a senator) especially benefited from the respite, as the trade of Sicilian sulphur and Iberian cinnabar boomed —     Furthermore, in places where both Carthage and Rome had ruled, like Corsica and Sicily, there was even a melding of traditions, with farmers and shepherds and the like praying to strange syncretisms of both Baal Hammon and Jupiter, or Tanit and Juno, or Melqart and Herakles.   These years of relative peace (and the fact that she wasn’t sacked in their most recent conflict), also saw the city of Qart Hadasht eclipse Roma as largest in the West — and with population of half a million or more, an enormous Cothon that berthed thousands of ships from all across the world, glittering palaces and lush estates that climbed the white slopes of Byrsa, there were few who could argue against Carthage being the most beautiful city in the Mediterranean as well.    So it isn’t much a surprise that, once the dictator-turned-hero Gisgo Gisgo finally died in the year 118 BCE, the Adirim elected his sons and nephews to the supreme position of Sophet rather than return to the warmongering Barcid and Magonid dynasties.    But the Romans were not so idle. Their senate seethed over their humiliation in the Second Punic War, and determined to match Carthaginian wealth before their next war, they sanctioned campaign after campaign, war after war — before long, the aquilae and vexilla of Rome were victorious in Greece…  …Gaul…  …and even Iberia…  Stewarding the westernmost possessions of Carthage, however, the Barcids had not forgotten or forgiven the killing of Hannibal, which as it spread from soldier to trader and town to city only became more gruesome in its details — he was crucified, many insisted; no, he was disemboweled, others said; no, no, he was actually crucified and then disemboweled, and trampled by his own elephant for good measure… Needless to say, the hatred between Barca and Rome ran deep, and even with the wealthiest and noblest of Carthaginian politicans adamant in keeping the peace, the Barcids were vigorous in opposing Roman expansion on every front — so when the Romans began encroaching on Iberia, invading and annexing vast swathes of territory from the Vasconic tribe, the Barcids moved quickly…  Over the course of twenty-five years, wars were waged against almost all the Spanish tribes that threatened to defect or succumb to Rome — Elbocoria, Duitiquia, Boletia, Tithia, Olcadia, Vaccaeia, Zoelia, Baniensia, Gigurri, Taluria, Aravia, and countless others.      The fighting was bloody and constant, but as the century neared its end, the Barcids managed to bring almost all of Iberia south of the River Iber under their rule.  But that wasn’t enough. Even after half a century, the Barcids were determined to pursue another war against Rome — but Carthage had no kings, and after Hannibal’s disastrous foray across the Alps, the Barcids were not nearly as popular or influential as they had once been. It was the progeny of Gisgo Gisgo who dominated the Adirim, and they were not interested in starting another costly war against Rome… This time, however, it would not be Carthage’s war to start.  In the year 86 BCE, a flaming star is sighted scarring the skies above Rome. Though there is initially panic and chaos, the Pontifex Maximus proclaims that, because the comet was falling into the south, towards Carthage, it could only be a heavenly foretelling of battles to come… A year later, a legate of Rome arrives in Carthage and requests an audience with the Adirim. Once the great lords of Carthage were assembled before him, he presents three simple demands — that Carthage disband her grossly-overlarge navy; that the isles of Sicily and Corsica be ceded; and that the heirs of Hamilcar Barca be handed over to Rome, to face punishment for their outrages in Iberia and the misdeeds of their ancestors.  There is only one response to such an ultimatum — the legate is sent back to Rome, free from his head.  And with that, a temporary lull descends over the Mediterranean… a lull that would soon be filled with the wailing of mothers and mourning of fathers, with the soundings of horn and trumpet, with the stamping of levies and legions, with the tussling of thousands of warships taking to sea and ruin and glory… The elephant and the wolf will make battle for the final time. hashashash fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 21:08
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Numbers at the start of the Third Punic War: Carthage army (not including mercenaries): 158,500 Rome army (not including mercenaries): 228,050 Carthage ships: 555 Rome ships: 322 Carthage treasury: 16625 Rome treasury: 1348
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Jan 3, 2023 21:09
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The third to last image isn't showing up.hashashash posted:Numbers at the start of the Third Punic War: Clearly we can solve this problem by throwing money at it.
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Jan 3, 2023 21:17
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Need to pray to Baal-Jupiter for some of those Roman expansion buffs
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Jan 3, 2023 21:26
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Hellioning posted:The third to last image isn't showing up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIMeGIoSGkg
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Jan 3, 2023 21:27
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God, all of Numidia is gonna be on our loving payroll from all the mercs we're gonna have to hire
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Jan 3, 2023 21:30
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Hellioning posted:
absolutely the plan - I've grabbed a bunch of techs that increase the number of mercs we can get, think we're up to 6 or 7 now
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Jan 3, 2023 21:34
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free vasconia
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Jan 3, 2023 21:45
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Buschmaki posted:Does the Maccabee revolt still happen in Invictus? It's absolutely my least favorite part of trying to control the Levant and makes it a historically huge pain in the rear end to try and integrate the province yep - i've got events that will make the jews troublesome regardless of who holds Judea, and events that should make large empires a bit more unstable (may need to ramp those up though, looking at the ptolemies)
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Jan 3, 2023 22:01
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hashashash posted:Carthage army (not including mercenaries): 158,500
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Jan 3, 2023 22:08
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Amhazair posted:I don't recall how Imperator calculates/displays numbers. Does this include unraised levies? The number is all the levies and legions that they can raise Hellioning posted:The third to last image isn't showing up. Fixed
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Jan 3, 2023 22:23
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Hellioning posted:Clearly we can solve this problem by throwing money at it. I dunno, at this point I'm half expecting the Romans to kill every mercenary in the Mediterranean while raising their own dead with Italian necromancy or something.
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Jan 3, 2023 23:19
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oh man we're hosed
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Jan 4, 2023 02:14
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Viola the Mad posted:oh man we're hosed we just have to, you know, actually definitively win the naval war for once without getting ganked or losing to underwhelming odds or.... ah gently caress
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Jan 4, 2023 02:25
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Just gotta Zerg Rush Rome in a decapitation strike. ...hey, it worked once!
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Jan 4, 2023 02:26
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hashashash posted:yep - i've got events that will make the jews troublesome regardless of who holds Judea, and events that should make large empires a bit more unstable (may need to ramp those up though, looking at the ptolemies) That's seems a fair assessment of the conditions in judea, the jewish people were riven by conflicting religious and social philosophies and some poo poo was probably going to start regardless of which fool empire decided to rule the region.
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Jan 4, 2023 07:54
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Asterite34 posted:God, all of Numidia is gonna be on our loving payroll from all the mercs we're gonna have to hire With sufficient money, we shall simply pay the continent of Africa to rise into the air and crush the Romans beneath is. Surely, surely we will be able to buy our way out of trouble.
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Jan 4, 2023 08:12
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This shall be the day! We stand at the precipice of a new history.
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Jan 4, 2023 14:45
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An LP that promises alt history but inadvertently and repeatly stumbles through events that track almost identically to those from the original time line would be amusing.
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Jan 4, 2023 14:58
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hashashash posted:Numbers at the start of the Third Punic War: Let's all rejoice in the convenient conjuction of "excluding mercenaries" and us having ten times as much cash as Rome, I suppose.
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Jan 4, 2023 15:04
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Why do the buffs that Rome get feel like that joke mod Wiz made for EU3 that made whatever country you selected insanely overpowered (unless it's in Sub-Sahara Africa because according to EU3's logic no one lived there)?
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Jan 4, 2023 16:51
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SirPhoebos posted:Why do the buffs that Rome get feel like that joke mod Wiz made for EU3 that made whatever country you selected insanely overpowered (unless it's in Sub-Sahara Africa because according to EU3's logic no one lived there)? having just played through the next update (most of it at least) - this is unironically what it feels like what a nightmare, was genuinely close to rage quitting at one point
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Jan 4, 2023 18:06
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I feel like we kind of had to start as Carthage in retrospect then, because otherwise Rome would make playing as anywhere in western europe unviable past a certain point if it really felt like that.
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Jan 4, 2023 18:17
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Yea I mean that 100% would've happened, I don't think I've ever seen an Imperator game where Rome didn't cover half of Europe at least
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Jan 4, 2023 18:21
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hashashash posted:Yea I mean that 100% would've happened, I don't think I've ever seen an Imperator game where Rome didn't cover half of Europe at least Rome somehow ate itself in the Scythian LP without any player intervention.
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Jan 4, 2023 18:39
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SirPhoebos posted:Rome somehow ate itself in the Scythian LP without any player intervention. That's because that one was unmodded. This one's using a mod that among adding loads of content to a sadly abandoned game, also apparently ups the amount of buffs rome gets gigantically?
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Jan 4, 2023 18:44
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SirPhoebos posted:Rome somehow ate itself in the Scythian LP without any player intervention. ah fair enough, though the different start date might have something to do it also, don't think it'll make it into the update but this happened lmao -  we obviously made him very welcome 
hashashash fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jan 4, 2023 |
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Jan 4, 2023 21:05
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There's a school of thought that says a properly balanced GS game will, on observe, trend mostly historical. There's another school that says Rome should be the strongest and coolest always.
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Jan 4, 2023 21:06
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Rody One Half posted:There's a school of thought that says a properly balanced GS game will, on observe, trend mostly historical. I feel like in this case both schools are the same
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Jan 4, 2023 23:22
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hashashash posted:Yea I mean that 100% would've happened, I don't think I've ever seen an Imperator game where Rome didn't cover half of Europe at least I've had games where it didn't but they tend to be ones where I start as a mid to large sized power near or in Italy and make it priority #1 to organize some Rome strangling as soon as possible. Sometimes setting it of before even unpausing. Rome also seem prone to just randomly implode into incredibly destructive multi-phase civil wars in some games which can put a damper on them a bit in my experience. I think its to do with the Republic collapsing into Empire mechanics and Rome's missions sometimes directing them that way interacting with the character holdings mechanics.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:45
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Archaeology Hat posted:Rome also seem prone to just randomly implode into incredibly destructive multi-phase civil wars in some games which can put a damper on them a bit in my experience. I think its to do with the Republic collapsing into Empire mechanics and Rome's missions sometimes directing them that way interacting with the character holdings mechanics. so this is appropriate.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:18
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Archaeology Hat posted:
huh, in that case I think one of the mods I've been using (the one that brings in historical characters like Caesar and Hannibal) actually made Rome much stronger, because it adds an event chain for Rome to become an empire and makes it impossible for them to do so any other way
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Jan 6, 2023 20:31
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hashashash posted:huh, in that case I think one of the mods I've been using (the one that brings in historical characters like Caesar and Hannibal) actually made Rome much stronger, because it adds an event chain for Rome to become an empire and makes it impossible for them to do so any other way Gonna give a controversial opinion: This mod sucks.
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Jan 6, 2023 21:50
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yep, I've already gotten rid of it -- not in time for the next update, but still, at least if we beat Rome they might actually suffer for it now
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Jan 6, 2023 21:54
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hashashash posted:huh, in that case I think one of the mods I've been using (the one that brings in historical characters like Caesar and Hannibal) THAT'S A MOD? They made a Rome game without Caesar and Hannibal???
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Jan 7, 2023 03:23
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Rody One Half posted:THAT'S A MOD? The game starts in 304 BC while Hannibal and Caesar were born in 247 and 100 BC respectively. None of the Paradox games force historical events to happen or people to exist (except for broad stuff like the Black Plague or whatever).
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Jan 7, 2023 03:34
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