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Andrast posted:Nothing and that's cool
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Jan 4, 2023 16:58
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ancestries having ability score combos was good and getting rid of that is bad and makes things more samey in a boring way
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Jan 4, 2023 17:27
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super sweet best pal posted:
Also, it's been discussed to death before, but "my entire cultural group is innately smarter than average, don't worry about it" is a really weird vibe when viewed through the lens of racism. 2e is really good at avoiding it with heritages, since they always emphasize that any given group of a given ancestry has a mixture of them instead of having a Woodland Elf country and a Seer Elf country and etc. This change just makes how they treat ability scores line up with that. (Also, the old system isn't still being supported so people could make new characters with it. It's so people who made characters with the old system don't feel obligated to completely rework their statline to stay rules-compliant. It's the computer running Windows 98 you keep around for legacy purposes, it's not something you want people to actually use.)
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Jan 4, 2023 17:37
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I really like 3 boosts and a flaw ancestries because it meant I could shop around for one that let me have a 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8 spread when I needed those stats. The 14 is usually to qualify for an archetype or a gun had a minimum strength score or I just wanted a few more HP as I thought the character would be front lining. Given the paucity of Str/Int/Free and Str/Wis/Free ancestries I’m sad if they are going the way of the dodo.
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Jan 4, 2023 19:05
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sugar free jazz posted:ancestries having ability score combos was good and getting rid of that is bad and makes things more samey in a boring way They still have them, this is an alternate option more or less replacing the flaws rule the difference between an elf sorcerer then and now isn't the ability to choose what scores you want, as you already could do that, it's that they don't have to end up with some random -STR or -WIS or whatever to get to their preferred boosts
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Jan 4, 2023 19:31
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Is the old flaws rule still an officially supported option? Being able to choose three boosts and two flaws was niche, but I like that the option was there.
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Jan 4, 2023 19:54
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Jen X posted:They still have them, this is an alternate option more or less replacing the flaws rule oh it's just an alternate rule set, then i misread it and whatever that seems fine
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Jan 4, 2023 19:58
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Midig posted:I mean, he has apparantly played both systems for a while, so some elaboration would be nice. Its not like the guy favors DnD 5th anyhow. In addition to the other things mentioned, he certainly does favour 5e...after he noted it made him more money, so he made a clickbait video bashing PF2 in favour of 5e. That particular video was so distorted, players from the game he was describing even came out to say "wait, that didn't happen". And that's before we get into the actual gameplay descriptions.
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Jan 4, 2023 20:22
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Lurks With Wolves posted:(Also, the old system isn't still being supported so people could make new characters with it. It's so people who made characters with the old system don't feel obligated to completely rework their statline to stay rules-compliant. It's the computer running Windows 98 you keep around for legacy purposes, it's not something you want people to actually use.) Not entirely though, because it looks like the Flaw system is being relegated to an entirely RP choice even if you're using the old Ability Score rules. People who take flaws so their tertiary stat can be a 14 instead of a 12 can't do that anymore which can lock them out of archetypes, armor or reduce their HP by a significant amount depending on how they arranged their stats.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:04
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Midig posted:I mean, he has apparantly played both systems for a while, so some elaboration would be nice. Its not like the guy favors DnD 5th anyhow. From the clip it just sounds like he hasn't actually played Pathfinder at all. Like the weird thing about the index being bad is kinda bizarre. It sounds like he was looking for "making income" but strangely looked up the Crafting skill instead? Of course you won't be able to find something if you look up the wrong thing that's how an index works. Hmm I'd like to do the Earn Income Activity and use my crafting skill somehow, better look up crafting skill instead of Earn An Income for some reason.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:23
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Idk I just don't think it's as big a deal as you guys are making it that the one specific 18/16/14/12/8/8 statline doesn't exist anymore.
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Jan 4, 2023 23:34
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Toshimo posted:Idk I just don't think it's as big a deal as you guys are making it that the one specific 18/16/14/12/8/8 statline doesn't exist anymore. Like I would rather die than have 2 8's but it completely invalidates the build my partner is playing right now and that's kind of bullshit.
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Jan 4, 2023 23:40
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Epi Lepi posted:Like I would rather die than have 2 8's but it completely invalidates the build my partner is playing right now and that's kind of bullshit. "Completely invalidates" or "has 1-4 less HP"?
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Jan 4, 2023 23:51
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As it always has been, the real answer is to kill ability scores entirely. Between background, feats, ancestry features and feats, and class and everything that comes with that, ability scores are mostly a non-choice prepicked based on your build. You could say "everyone starts with an 18 in every score" and the game of Pathfinder 2e would not be meaningfully different.
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Jan 5, 2023 01:05
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Just have a single Proficiency Bonus that goes up with levels and doesn't vary for different characters.
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Jan 5, 2023 01:18
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appropriatemetaphor posted:From the clip it just sounds like he hasn't actually played Pathfinder at all. I may be operating in a bit of bad faith here, but he works in sales/marketing as a day job, and it really shows in how he approaches videos.
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Jan 5, 2023 02:43
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pf2e is fun and way better than dnd5e i am playing an amnesiac hunter automaton deer instinct barbarian who turns from a robot furry dear into just a robot dear with sickass antlers and when i go berserk it's all overclocking and poo poo. 
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Jan 5, 2023 02:57
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bewilderment posted:As it always has been, the real answer is to kill ability scores entirely. This is kind of where I'm at tbh. For something so core to RPG design, they feel more like limitations than anything. Maybe if every ability score did something of interest for every character concept, it could be interesting. Instead, you get your middle numbers exactly where they need to be, you put your high number as high as you can, and your low ones just kinda fester.
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Jan 5, 2023 03:18
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sugar free jazz posted:ancestries having ability score combos was good and getting rid of that is bad and makes things more samey in a boring way I feel like I'm seeing this posts and losing my mind. Heritages and ancestry feats still exist.
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Jan 5, 2023 04:07
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Blockhouse posted:I feel like I'm seeing this posts and losing my mind. what part is confusing to you about how if one avenue of differentiation is removed, things are more similar. other things can also exist.
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Jan 5, 2023 04:36
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sugar free jazz posted:what part is confusing to you about how if one avenue of differentiation is removed, things are more similar. other things can also exist.
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Jan 5, 2023 04:42
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MadScientistWorking posted:Because its the most asinine stupidest form of differentiation in the game. is this what 5e people are like or something im so confused
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Jan 5, 2023 05:01
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sugar free jazz posted:what part is confusing to you about how if one avenue of differentiation is removed, things are more similar. other things can also exist. because ancestry boosts don't mattter? especially when there was already a system to finagle the stats you wanted anyway? or to put it another way, I'm glad Paizo decided "oh it's hosed up to say one race is inhherently dumber than another we should ditch that" was more important than every goblin getting a +2 to charisma or whatever the gently caress
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Jan 5, 2023 05:09
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Races are already differentiated really strongly from all the weird poo poo they can take I don't get how changing their +stat number to anything changes this in any way?
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Jan 5, 2023 05:19
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even WotC decided it was stupid to tie stats to races/species/ancestry.
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Jan 5, 2023 05:22
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they're still tied to ancestries, this is just an alternative system for people who find that uncomfortable or want to build, like, lizardfolk inventors without randomly having to dump some other stat this is the exact middle ground option that works for everyone except weird minmaxers Jen X fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 06:33
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As a weird minmaxer I like the change
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Jan 5, 2023 06:38
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Andrast posted:As a weird minmaxer I like the change same and same
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Jan 5, 2023 06:40
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Chevy Slyme posted:Those mechanical differences between ancestries still exist in that every ancestry has a unique pool of feats and features that make them feel different and special though. This is all exactly right.
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Jan 5, 2023 07:04
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Arivia posted:Because you can now use the new option to just take a boost to any two ability scores of your choice to do it without any extra finagling. I was already playing a human, so no the new option doesn't actually do anything for me. My sneaky, scrawny, bomb-throwing saboteur of a human mostly used voluntary flaw as an excuse to have 8 Str to fit the concept, and the extra boost to be slightly better at Will saves or Deception checks was a small mechanical trade-off to justify that penalty. Now there's no justification to create a meaningful choice between two valid options, just making your character strictly worse because ~flavor~. Yay?
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Jan 5, 2023 07:26
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I mean, they may have also found that the vast majority of players using flaws were using them so that they could use an ancestry they wanted for a concept/theme, but that had an existing flaw, which always felt lovely. 90%+ of people I saw take flaws did it for this, and this solution is hella better so v0v.
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Jan 5, 2023 07:55
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It's reasonable that elves won't have as many jacked bodybuilders but thats no reason to limit a player from making his elf bodybuilder just as jacked as any other Sub any ancestry with a str flaw there.
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Jan 5, 2023 14:55
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Toshimo posted:I mean, they may have also found that the vast majority of players using flaws were using them so that they could use an ancestry they wanted for a concept/theme, but that had an existing flaw, which always felt lovely. 90%+ of people I saw take flaws did it for this, and this solution is hella better so v0v. It's the only reason I've got a flawed android thaumaturge from the future. I think the change is definitely a good one.
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Jan 5, 2023 16:47
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I mean I kind of wish they just improved voluntary flaw to be a straight 1-for-1 trade to gain 1 flaw and 1 boost each instead, which would've been pretty much the same except without taking versatility away from ancestries like human that already got two free boosts normally.
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Jan 6, 2023 04:55
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Did WotC really just re-edit the OFL to gently caress over Paizo et al?
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Jan 6, 2023 16:02
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CottonWolf posted:Did WotC really just re-edit the OFL to gently caress over Paizo et al? Unclear since all we have is a leaked draft document, and it remains to be seen if that was a trial balloon that will be scaled back, or what. Also, remains to be seen just how aggressively Wizards interprets the document that they are about to put out. But, reading that leak as written now, if Wizards does interpret the new doc expansively, it’s tantamount to a brick tossed through the Paizo office window with a little note tied to it reading “Time to Pay Up”.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:15
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What parts of PF fall under OGL?
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Jan 6, 2023 17:11
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I'm a player but don't really follow the behind the scenes stuff on these companies. Anyone have a tldr for what's going on?
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Jan 6, 2023 17:12
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Harold Fjord posted:What parts of PF fall under OGL? All of the rules for the actual RPG. It’s in literally every product.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:27
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I'm pretty sure you can't protect a games rules generally but maybe this is a better question for the legal people and the legal thread
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Jan 6, 2023 17:29
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