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Always nice to have unexpected developments.
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Dec 31, 2022 07:45
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Yeah, I absolutely jumped the gun with the photo album. The aforementioned twist overwrote the immediate lead-up to it in my memory.
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Dec 31, 2022 07:58
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The Steel Samurai lost is one of the best AA twists and sets the bar for all games going forward. It's genius in its simplicity and yet I doubt many players managed to suss it out before Nick's freakout.
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Dec 31, 2022 08:09
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Omobono posted:The Steel Samurai lost is one of the best AA twists and sets the bar for all games going forward.
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Dec 31, 2022 08:28
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These are the moments why I love Ace Attorney. When the game presents a seemingly-innocuous multiple choice question, except one of the answers completely flips the entire case on its head, and that's how you know it's gotta be the right one.
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Dec 31, 2022 08:34
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I remember having my own 'Oh poo poo!' moment, except it was in the sixth game and it was more of an 'oh, shiiiiiiiiiiiit  ' one.But yeah. Welcome to Ace Attorney.
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Dec 31, 2022 08:39
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GilliamYaeger posted:Funnily enough I got it at the exact same time as Nick's freakout, which made it super awesome because I was going "OH poo poo!" at the same time as the player character. That's always a magical moment. Part of it is because they keep throwing sensible explanations like ink from an octopus at every step of the chain. No photo in the album? Well, the murder was hardly an official show, it's not like Cody was a witness. Oh, he was. But he had a new camera, so he must not have managed to snap a picture. Wait, what do you mean you took one but deleted it? 
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Dec 31, 2022 09:21
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And all Phoenix had to do to get here was bully a small child to the point of tears! :P
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Dec 31, 2022 17:19
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Listen, some kids have it coming.
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Dec 31, 2022 19:28
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Yes, children can be very cruel. No, Bart, that was not permission to be such.
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Dec 31, 2022 19:38
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dotchan posted:And all Phoenix had to do to get here was bully a small child to the point of tears! :P  (Welcome to the real world, kid!)
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Dec 31, 2022 20:12
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This is, as many have already said, the moment that makes the case.
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Dec 31, 2022 21:59
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I've not been commenting or voting, given I'm familiar enough with the first Ace Attorney game that I don't feel like I should, but yes. This twist is excellent, and marks the first of several where your entire understanding of the case transforms in an instant over the course of the series. I've been following quietly, and have to say I really appreciate watching you play through this game, but I'll probably return to being quiet for now. Thanks for your work!
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Dec 31, 2022 23:29
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I've always found it weird the album doesn't work for the first prompt: it and the camera both follow the logic of "he was trying to take a picture for the album." It's weird that they split the two pieces of evidence up for a single conclusion. And yeah, the way they quietly build up your assumption on who the killer is all case only to then yank the rug out here is pretty great.
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Jan 1, 2023 05:03
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Yeah, that's one thing that makes Ace Attorney really nice - its twists really grab you because you've been working on them as opposed to being told them.
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Jan 1, 2023 06:15
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It's a pretty good twist, and since you have been working at it, you can put together the pieces at about the same time as Nick. When AA gets good, it gets GOOD
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Jan 1, 2023 12:39
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AA is at its best when it doesn't show you whodunnit in the opening scene. Which is thankfully a majority of the time, I feel.
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Jan 1, 2023 16:38
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MarquiseMindfang posted:AA is at its best when it doesn't show you whodunnit in the opening scene. I think it's traditional that they do this for the first case in each game, right? (I think this is a common enough basic-fact that it's not a spoiler but i apologize if it is)
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Jan 1, 2023 18:15
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Gosts posted:I think it's traditional that they do this for the first case in each game, right? (I think this is a common enough basic-fact that it's not a spoiler but i apologize if it is) They mix it up a little. But there's a good chance.
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Jan 1, 2023 22:17
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You know what? I'm going to be a big enough man to admit that I completely loving forgot about this twist in the decade-plus since I last played this one.
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Jan 2, 2023 02:16
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Truthkeeper posted:You know what? I'm going to be a big enough man to admit that I completely loving forgot about this twist in the decade-plus since I last played this one. Same. I do replay AA games every couple of years, but I rarely play this case because the others are either foundational to the series (Mia's death in case 2), a blast to play (both of the remaining cases), or both (case 4). I don't even remember whodunnit in this case, though I have some theories based on what we've seen so far.
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Jan 2, 2023 03:46
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Truthkeeper posted:You know what? I'm going to be a big enough man to admit that I completely loving forgot about this twist in the decade-plus since I last played this one. I'm on the same boat, and holy poo poo I was not ready to get that one again. This case is definitely a solid one, even if it takes a while to get going.
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Jan 2, 2023 16:30
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Part 63: Episode 3, Day 3, Trial: Samurai Turnabout We last left off with a rather stunning reveal, though it hasn't really been spelled out for us yet. These first two options don't even make any sense, and while I'd like to show them off, there are penalties involved here. So you'll have to settle for the alternate history instead... quote:If the photos were blurry, Cody probably wouldn't have kept them, right? quote:Cody didn't know how to use his camera real well, so he must've just erased them by mistake!  Now, let's get to the big reveal!  I can think of only one reason, Your Honor.Music: Silence  Sound: Desk Slam  The Steel Samurai didn't win!Sound: Realization That's why Cody deleted those photos. Sound: Realization Well, Cody? I'm right, aren't I? Tell the truth. The bad guy defeated the Steel Samurai! Sound: Guilty  I-it's impossible! Th-the Steel Samurai never loses!Sound: Whack  He never loses to anyone! Ever!Sound: Drama Pound Sound: Super Shock Your Honor...Music: Telling the Truth  Sound: Realization   The same reason he erased his precious photos! For Cody, it was inconceivable that the Steel Samurai could be defeated. Sound: Desk Slam However, Cody witnessed the impossible! He saw the Steel Samurai lose!  That's why he lied and said the Steel Samurai won.Sound: Desk Slam  Sound: Objection  It wouldn't be a courtroom game without that reference.  Sound: Gallery  Sound: Gavel x 3  O-Order! I will have order!  W-what did you see? Tell the court what you saw! I......Music: Silence  Sound: Super Shock x 3 Sound: Drama Pound Oh. Well. So much for being gentle. Music: Pressing Pursuit - Cornered   Even Phoenix seems a little stunned by that one. Cody... Right? Sound: Damage 2  Okay okay!Sound: Whack Y-you're right!Sound: Drama Pound  Th-then he didn't m-move... Sound: Super Shock  Sound: Gallery Sound: Gavel x 3 Order! Order! Order! Sound: Desk Slam  What kind of stunt are you trying to pull, Wright?Sound: Whack  Sound: Objection  Sound: Objection Dueling close-ups, I love it. I was wondering when Edgeworth would chime in again.  Sound: Gallery We're shocking the gallery a lot here.  Sound: Gavel  Sound: Whack I suppose we should explain ourselves to the judge. Apparently, we have all made a serious error. An... error? Edgeworth has never even heard of an error, let alone made one. Anyway, two nonsense statements and one real one here. There's a penalty attached, but this one's easy.  At the end of the fight, the Steel Samurai fell to the ground, and lay still. Don't you see?Sound: Desk Slam Jack Hammer was the Steel Samurai!quote:Let's take a moment to reiterate that Hammer is the victim here. For some reason. quote:What if...there was no victim at all? ...Somehow.  Sound: Gallery Sound: Gavel x 3 The judge is getting a lot of use out of that gavel in this update. Order! Order! Order! So, the Steel Samurai in this photograph... Sound: Gavel I kind of wonder if they coded the wrong sound effect here. I've never heard the gavel strike for anything but the gavel animation. Maybe "Realization" would've fit better here? Or "Whack", even? That's what I'm saying, Your Honor. Thus, he obviously knew about Will Powers's foot injury. B-but wait!Sound: Whack  That's what everyone thought! But remember what Ms. Oldbag said in her testimony?  Did I see poor old Hammer? Nope. I didn't really remember seeing those lines like that. They're all direct quotes, though. The first is actually the first line of her first testimony, and the other two show up when pressing her on a later line in that same testimony. Anyway...  However, no one saw him going to Studio One. Nor was there a picture of him.Next episode, I'm going to keep a running list of "assumptions without evidence" because this one was hiding in plain sight and I totally missed it.  Then he snuck into the dressing room and stole the Steel Samurai costume. ...Sound: Shock 2 ...Sound: Shock 2  Sound: Whack  I... don't know. ...Oh, right, Cody's still here.  Music: Silence ?Sound: Light Bulb I thought that the Steel Samurai was moving strange. Pops!Sound: Objection  Huh, me? What? Sound: Realization We've had our key epiphany, and we're rewarded with some solid evidence for once! Data? Sound: Damage 2 Music: Suspense  !Sound: Light Bulb Sound: Desk Slam W-what!?Sound: Realization Sound: Desk Slam Show us, quick!Sound: Whack   Now!Sound: Gavel *sniff*  Well well well! Now our timeline actually makes sense! Hammer went to Studio Two, not Studio One, at 2:00 PM. The monkey head fell at 2:15 PM, blocking off all other access to the studio (except Cody, who was wandering around the woods). Hammer was killed at 2:30 PM at Studio Two. The monkey head was removed around 4:00 PM and after that point, Hammer was moved over to Studio One, stuffed into his Evil Magistrate costume, to be "discovered" after 5:00 PM. And that Studio Two alibi now actually proves that someone there has to be the killer! Go add "the crime scene was Studio One" to the bad assumption list. Well, looking at this it's still a little hard to say. Argh judge you're entirely missing the point! Your opinion, Mr. Wright? I agree, Your Honor. This isn't decisive evidence. I'll give it back.Game you don't get to blow my mind last update and then act all dumb now! Music: Silence  Sound: Realization Mia? What? Look at that photo once more!Music: Suspense That's it Phoenix! Sound: Realization  Wh-what!?Sound: Stab 2 Y-Your Honor! C-certainly. I don't see why not. Phoenix! Show him!  It's another game of pixel-hunting, but this one is almost an insult to our intelligence. I won't bother to pass along that insult by asking for a vote here, but we've been at it for awhile so I will take a break. Feel free to discuss the implications of this photo in the meantime. Until next time!
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Jan 3, 2023 04:20
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Sorry. I was too shocked to say anything for a bit there.
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Hot take: The director is the killer. Hammer ate a steak with him and caught Sal Manella. (  )
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Jan 3, 2023 04:41
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Make a small child cry percent speedrun complete! Time taken: Six months.
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Jan 3, 2023 04:47
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It's... It's the two on the sign. C'mon, game.
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Jan 3, 2023 06:05
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Rapid-fire revelations that challenge your understanding of the case? The real Ace Attorney starts here! Cody must really be an obsessive Steel Samurai fan of he can tell who's in the suit through an affected limp.
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Jan 3, 2023 06:09
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Quackles posted:Hot take: The director is the killer. Hammer ate a steak with him and caught Sal Manella. Oof. If I caught that I'd pick death too
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Jan 3, 2023 07:55
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Incredible twists! Challenged assumptions! Bits of dialogue that are incredibly important in hindsight! and now...answer this question that a 2 year old could solve!  Honestly, game, don't do that to me after pulling such a good twist on us!
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Jan 3, 2023 23:43
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argosaxelcaos posted:Incredible twists! Challenged assumptions! Bits of dialogue that are incredibly important in hindsight! I mean, the big twist was also delivered with a brain dead player choice. The issue here is that the crime scene being different than assumed should also be a big dramatic reveal, but it comes so close behind hammer was the samurai that you get completely underwhelmed by it and get left with an insulting easy input.
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Jan 4, 2023 00:24
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I think the issue is more that Hammer being the Steel Samurai forces you to fundamentally rethink EVERYTHING about the case. At that point, learning the crime scene was also different is more of a "Yeah it might as well be, huh?" than a "Oh my god this changes EVERYTHING".
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Jan 4, 2023 00:28
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Remember, the initial audience for the game was Japanese, so the bottom half of a "2" might not be so obvious to them.
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Jan 4, 2023 05:29
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I love the pace of the back-and-forth with the prosecution when Phoenix has finally figured things out. He goes from bluffing like crazy and nitpicking to find even the tiniest inconsistency to a righteous warrior slamming down the truth. And both still feel perfectly like Phoenix!
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Jan 4, 2023 18:55
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(context: in Italian the equivalent to grasping straws is trying to climb glass*) (*EDIT: more accurately trying to climb on a mirror) The way I described AA to a friend was nevermind glass, glass is a loving luxury, Nick has to climb air at times. Then he gets a grip on that invisible bridge from Last Crusade and he starts sprinting at a dead run without missing a single twist in it because he doesn't have the time to check the path. Omobono fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jan 4, 2023 |
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Jan 4, 2023 20:30
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theshim posted:I love the pace of the back-and-forth with the prosecution when Phoenix has finally figured things out. He goes from bluffing like crazy and nitpicking to find even the tiniest inconsistency to a righteous warrior slamming down the truth. And both still feel perfectly like Phoenix! The writers deserve credit for making him appear both goofy and extremely competent at separate times, without feeling like plot convenience
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Jan 4, 2023 23:23
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Remember, the initial audience for the game was Japanese, so the bottom half of a "2" might not be so obvious to them. Japanese people use Arabic numerals frequently enough that this isn't likely to be a concern. Honestly, I think the issue is that because this is a visual novel, and so much of the story is straightforward, there wouldn't be much gameplay left if the obvious things like this weren't made interactive. There's always a point when any sensible person would be able to collect all of the facts and arrive at an answer that's borne out by the available evidence, but if the game reaches that point, then it's no longer a game. Hence the "please point out to the court which of these shapes goes into the round hole" busywork.
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Jan 4, 2023 23:29
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Part 64: Episode 3, Day 3, Trial: Alibi Turnabout Only the "2" on the signpost will do, here. The signpost here shows the bottom half of a "2", and the gate itself has a backwards "2" on it, but for some reason clicking on the gate just produces a generic failure. (If you look back at part 51, our first look at Studio Two, there does not appear to be any number - backwards or forwards - on the gate itself. Maybe this image is actually from inside the gate?) quote:User Carbon dioxide pointed out that the gate actually has an "S" on it, for Studio. You can make out the "T" under the Steel Samurai's armpit. I was so fixated on the "2" that I hallucinated an extra backwards one!  Your Honor! Look at this! I see... a gate? Clearly not a "1", Your Honor, correct? The number?Sound: Realization  quote:The only other item of interest in the photo is the Steel Samurai himself. quote:Clicking anywhere else gets a generic failure: Music: Pressing Pursuit - Cornered - Variation  Sound: Stab 2  Sound: Realization  B-but... Th-that's impossible!Sound: Whack Hmm? Eh? What's this all about?Sound: Light Bulb  Sound: Whack  We're going to have to spell it out more for the judge, but that line is worth it. I'll use the studio guidemap. However, what do we see in this photo taken at the time of the murder? It does NOT say "1" on that gate in the photo. Your Honor! Sound: Desk Slam  The game is insulting us again.  Studio Two! Sound: Desk Slam Here, at Studio Two.Sound: Realization  quote:This choice is so easy we don't get any specific dialogue for other locations. Clicking anywhere else on the map just gets us...  Here comes the other part of the turnabout, flipping the alibi on its head! No penalty here, so I'll go with the obvious choice about the path being blocked. The path to the trailer was blocked! So we have heard. The path was blocked at 2:15...Sound: Desk Slam In other words, the victim went to Studio Two before that time!Sound: Objection Yes... yes, I suppose that would be the case. Remember Mr. Sal Manella's testimony? Allow me to remind the court: Yet, in actuality, the reverse was true! Only someone in the trailer could have committed this murder!Sound: Desk Slam  Sound: Objection  Sound: Gallery That reveal is enough to get the crowd buzzing. Sound: Gavel As you may recall, there is a trailer in Studio Two.We continue on with a topic that was actually one of the other prompt options above. Now, on that day, a meeting was held in that very trailer.  Sound: Desk Slam They were at the scene of the crime!Sound: Drama Pound quote:Mentioning the trailer is actually a valid choice! We just get the same dialogue in a different order: quote:The only wrong answer is mentioning that no filming is done at Studio Two:  Sound: Gallery More crowd reaction! Sound: Gavel O-order! Order! The defense makes the following claims:Sound: Desk Slam The scene of the crime was Studio Two! Mr. Hammer, for some reason, stole a Steel Samurai costume. Then he went to Studio Two!Sound: Objection  Edgeworth is on top of things here - we just spouted off a lot of conjecture without a lot of real evidence behind it. This is madness!Sound: Whack  Why would he steal a Steel Samurai costume!?Sound: Desk Slam  Sound: Objection W-well, no, of course not... Hmm... Or do you have proof!? Nothing comes to mind, no...  Phoenix.  We do? Just go for it! All or nothing! Your Honor... Yes, Mr. Wright? Sound: Realization quote:I guess we have proof after all... let's see what we say if we just go for it up front:  No penalty for getting this one wrong, time to show them the badge! (Wait, no, that can't be right...)Sound: Stab   Y-yes, Your Honor! I'm not sure this bottle is really "proof," but it's the only thing that connects our story together! This is it. I found this on the table in the Employee Area. Sound: Realization I'm not sure why the game felt the need for a scrolling effect there, but we get to see the whole table. The label reads "sleeping pills." "Sleeping pills"...? He was drugged... by Mr. Hammer! Sound: Gallery Sound: Gavel Wait a moment... But there is no proof that Mr. Hammer used it. Only one of these options can actually connect Hammer to the bottle. An... idea? Very well, let's hear it. quote:Testing Powers's blood might've been helpful a few days ago, but even then it doesn't prove anything about Hammer: quote:Examining Hammer's body... is certainly an idea. No idea how it could help, though! Music: Silence  Sound: Objection  Hmm...Sound: Stab 2 I suppose you're right.  That bottle sure took its time making an impact, but it delivered!  We come back some time later, with the judge deep in thought. Did the bottle get tested already? Music: Trial  Oh no, we do have a third day of investigation after all. Maybe this time we'll actually go inside the Studio Two gate?  In fact, things may have happened very differently than we previously thought. The scene of the crime was not Studio One, but Studio Two. And those in the trailer did have time to commit murder. Mr. Wright? Yes, Your Honor? Why would Mr. Hammer steal the Steel Samurai costume? Also, who killed him, and why? Find the answers for me by tomorrow. No kidding! This investigation sequence should be a bit more lively! Mr. Edgeworth. Mm? You will need to reconsider your stance in this case. Look at that, the game is basically admitting we've already done enough to prove our client is "not guilty." Barring another frame job later today, anyway. I bet he still gets declared guilty if we screw up enough in the next day of trial tomorrow, though! As you say, Your Honor. Trials must finish in three days or else!  Sound: Gallery This crowd probably never sees the mythical third day of trial. Sound: Gavel Music: Silence Very well... Court is adjourned! That trial took almost the whole day! Not much time left for all that homework! Music: Courtroom Lobby ~ Beginning Overture Whew! That was a close one!  Sound: Realization ...Home? Where is home for you? M-me too!Sound: Light Bulb  Really? Fake it 'till you make it! That's the motto of Wright & Co.! Hah! Maybe I should take up a career in acting?  Me too!Sound: Light Bulb  D-dead!?Now, now, you're scaring the poor guy.  Are you sure? (I wasn't kidding...) Now, Mr. Powers. We have to go make our final investigation. R-right! Thanks! *sniff* Onto our third investigation phase! Music: Jingle - It Can't End Here  Next time, we'll have our first invetigation sequence where we actually have some idea of what happened! DKII fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 04:55
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No blood test could tell that Hammer was the one who drugged him, Mr. Wright!
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Helping you reach a new page. Not much to say specifically though. Sorry.
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Jan 7, 2023 09:29
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A limitation of the format. We've demonstrated that Powers has an unassailable* alibi, so why the gently caress is the trial going on? Later games get better at this. Although with the Japanifornian system I'd not trust the prosecutor an iota so better to keep this going for a while. *I'm assuming that in a real world USA trial the prosecutor would not be allowed** to turn on a dime and renege on one of his main inferences namely studio 1 and 2 were completely cut off **Ought ≠ is, legal protections may not apply if defendant isn't white, rich or Christian Omobono fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 09:32
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Yes, technically our work should be done: we've proven there's reasonable doubt our client is the killer, so this hearing should end with a Not Guilty verdict, and the police should have to go back, investigate, and probably build a case on the studio higher ups. But that wouldn't make for a terribly satisfying conclusion, since Ace Attorney is really a detective series with courtroom theming! So now we have to do the police/prosecution's job and stick the blame on whoever we conclude actually did it or Powers will hang anyway because... I dunno, someone should get punished for this mess, I guess?
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Jan 7, 2023 12:42
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