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FPyat posted:It's me wondering about cold war-era racists being mad that movies were depicting integration. Maybe Nixonland has some examples. MAD Magazine was founded because of angry letters in response to that "and then the astronaut took of his space helmet and he was not white the end" comic
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Dec 23, 2022 19:26
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War and Pieces posted:MAD Magazine was founded because of angry letters in response to that "and then the astronaut took of his space helmet and he was not white the end" comic what?
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Dec 26, 2022 16:53
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HootTheOwl posted:what? https://www.cbr.com/judgment-day-ec-comics-code-authority/ 
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Dec 26, 2022 19:30
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:Negro is truly terrible, thanks for reminding me. The lowest ranked candy of my childhood, alongside the equally bafflingly named Bronhi. Does it have a picture of a man loving a cartoon horse?
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Dec 30, 2022 12:01
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The only good generals in the Civil War were James Longstreet and George Thomas and if anyone has a different opinion they are wrong and you should reconsider your acquaintanceship with them
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Dec 31, 2022 02:20
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:The only good generals in the Civil War were James Longstreet and George Thomas and if anyone has a different opinion they are wrong and you should reconsider your acquaintanceship with them can I pester you for more info (or reading recommendations) for George Thomas? Almost all of my Civil War reading has been on the Eastern Theater.
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Dec 31, 2022 04:07
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The best thing about Ol' Slow Trot I remember reading was that he'd regularly fall asleep during war councils and only pipe in to say poo poo like "this army does not retreat." The only mark against him is he didn't replace Buell as early as he could have. Iirc he felt it would be too impertinent so some of that southern propriety must have stuck with him.
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Dec 31, 2022 04:15
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i've always had a soft spot for burnside who knew he was awful at being a general and wanted to avoid it but the people that would take the job if he refused were always worse
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Dec 31, 2022 05:03
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See, after what we call, the Civil War, only four years long, came Civil War 2, which was a multi decade struggle between veterans of Civil War, mostly generals, over who got the credit for what and who got the blame for what. George Thomas was a great warrior when it came to the first Civil War but lost big time during the second.
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Dec 31, 2022 05:49
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i thought civil war 2 was just reconstruction which the south won
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Dec 31, 2022 09:31
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Is the war in Ukraine starting to give off just the slightest "Spanish Civil War" vibes or is it just me?
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Jan 5, 2023 03:05
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Is the war in Ukraine starting to give off just the slightest "Spanish Civil War" vibes or is it just me? not a lot of "non-intervention" going around, so how do you mean?
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Jan 5, 2023 12:34
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https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1608122253153107968 https://twitter.com/TabitaSurge/status/1609112931614199810 https://twitter.com/neilalexanderw1/status/1608546804177719298 
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Jan 5, 2023 12:39
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a very consistent historical fun fact is that intellectuals pretty much always think the peasants and workers of their own time are devastatingly stupid
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Jan 5, 2023 12:40
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Hastings and Dawkins, two stupid tastes that taste worse together
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Jan 5, 2023 12:42
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Hastings and Dawkins, two stupid tastes that taste worse together It's like a vomit and motor oil smoothie!
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Jan 5, 2023 12:47
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some guy told me that peasants don't do anything all day they just sit around farting and laughing at the sound and smell of their own farts, better write this down as a true fact so that Dick Dorkins can cite it as god's own truth 150 years from now
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Jan 5, 2023 12:48
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vyelkin posted:don't do anything all day they just sit around farting and laughing at the sound and smell of their own farts life goals right there
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Jan 5, 2023 12:49
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vyelkin posted:a very consistent historical fun fact is that intellectuals pretty much always think the peasants and workers of their own time are devastatingly stupid Uhh Dick Dorkins read it in an academic paper thus it must be true durrrr
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Jan 5, 2023 12:49
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Orange Devil posted:Uhh Dick Dorkins read it in an academic paper thus it must be true durrrr I doubt Hastings publishes anything that gets peer reviewed
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Jan 5, 2023 12:50
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vyelkin posted:some guy told me that peasants don't do anything all day they just sit around farting and laughing at the sound and smell of their own farts, better write this down as a true fact so that Dick Dorkins can cite it as god's own truth 150 years from now it's an incredible game of lovely telephone because it's not even Dorkins that picked it up, it was Hastings, and then Dorkins quoted him!
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Jan 5, 2023 12:52
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How is the Times not reviewed by peers (self-important liberals) daily?
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Jan 5, 2023 12:52
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Also btw this poo poo is load-bearing in academia. I remember a paper-discussion class during my masters degree where we'd read and discuss 2 papers selected by the prof with the whole class every week, with 2 people first doing a presentation on them followed by class discussion. Anyway, one of those papers made a claim that was central to its thesis in its literature background section that made me go "wait what really?", so I looked up the source, which wasn't the source but just quoted the same claim from an earlier source, which also wasn't the source etc etc until I ended up in a paper from the late 20s or early 30s or whatever which apparently did a study with sample size 6. This was for a business oriented masters. When I pointed this all out in class the prof went "oh huh, that's interesting, anyway let's move on discussing all the implications and applications of this paper's hypothesis" which I think I had just thoroughly undermined but whatever nobody gives a poo poo. Edit: Reminds me of when Finkelstein proved that Dershowitz is a plagiarist and a fraud and he starts his argument going "So I did what any academic would do and I bought a copy of his book, in fact I bought two copies, and then I read it, and then I checked all his sources", and like, lol lmao that is not at all what any academic would do or even give any poo poo about whatsoever. Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 12:59 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 12:56
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Orange Devil posted:Also btw this poo poo is load-bearing in academia. It's pretty field-specific. In history people actually care about your sources and if you try to make sweeping claims based on "here's one thing I found" your peer reviewers will usually eviscerate you. In fields like business, psychology, or economics, you can do a case study with like five participants or write a math equation that doesn't work and never test it in real life, and people will internalize it as a universally true part of human nature.
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Jan 5, 2023 12:58
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a few words present, mostly unintelligible gibberish
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Jan 5, 2023 12:58
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birdstrike posted:a few words present, mostly unintelligible gibberish but enough about your posts
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Jan 5, 2023 13:00
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Cerebral Bore posted:but enough about your posts as a gottscheer I am steeped in generations of it
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Jan 5, 2023 13:03
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vyelkin posted:It's pretty field-specific. In history people actually care about your sources and if you try to make sweeping claims based on "here's one thing I found" your peer reviewers will usually eviscerate you. In fields like business, psychology, or economics, you can do a case study with like five participants or write a math equation that doesn't work and never test it in real life, and people will internalize it as a universally true part of human nature. ...wait. Business research is a thing? I thought they just learned how to siphon money off labor and the rest was date rape and cocaine.
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Jan 5, 2023 13:47
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mycomancy posted:...wait. Business research is a thing? I thought they just learned how to siphon money off labor and the rest was date rape and cocaine. profs in business schools gotta do something to pass the time in between classes where they write "profit = revenue - costs" on the blackboard and everybody nods like they're actually learning something
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Jan 5, 2023 14:11
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Does anyone still give a poo poo about Dorkins? That seemed like a very mid-'00s cultural thing where we let incredibly cosseted British academics have an outsized influence as "public intellectuals" who refused to stay in their lanes.
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Jan 5, 2023 14:38
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vyelkin posted:In history people actually care about your sources
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Jan 5, 2023 15:06
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R. Mute posted:do they tho Social history only exists because we started to.
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Jan 5, 2023 15:12
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vyelkin posted:profs in business schools gotta do something to pass the time in between classes where they write "profit = revenue - costs" on the blackboard and everybody nods like they're actually learning something Well I figured that's when they were doing the cocaine and the date raping. MeatwadIsGod posted:Does anyone still give a poo poo about Dorkins? That seemed like a very mid-'00s cultural thing where we let incredibly cosseted British academics have an outsized influence as "public intellectuals" who refused to stay in their lanes. Intellectuals broadening their horizons and becoming interested in other fields is not a bad thing, it's actually very good. The issues always stem from intellectuals with power (social, political, etc.) using that power to push their stupid ideas. Usually this power is limited and so you get hilarious dumbassery like this piece of poo poo paper that killed an entire submission track in PNAS and cemented Lynn Margulis' place in the "Had One Good Idea and Rode It Till The Motherfucking Wheels Came Off" Hall of Fame next to Cary Mullis and James Watson, among others. The real problems come when said intellectual has real power, and then you get people like Drew Pinsky and Dawkins showing up in general global media.
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Jan 5, 2023 15:12
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MeatwadIsGod posted:Does anyone still give a poo poo about Dorkins? That seemed like a very mid-'00s cultural thing where we let incredibly cosseted British academics have an outsized influence as "public intellectuals" who refused to stay in their lanes. Dawkins (and Sam Harris, and Chris Hitchens) gained prominence in the mid-00s as a deliberate project to promote Islamophobia dressed-up in Atheism in order to manufacture a raison d'etre for staying in Iraq after the WMD story had run its course
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Jan 5, 2023 15:16
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R. Mute posted:do they tho yeah sometimes you get a peer reviewer who's like "I can't believe you could even conceive of trying to publish on this topic without citing this random source I've been working on for the past 50 years that nobody else has ever heard of"
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Jan 5, 2023 15:22
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just remembered Naomi Wolf getting owned
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Jan 5, 2023 15:26
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StashAugustine posted:just remembered Naomi Wolf getting owned Which time? The one that comes to my mind first is the one where she misunderstood a word's historical use in documents that meant the opposite of what she was assuming because she couldn't be bothered to try and falsify herself.
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Jan 5, 2023 15:34
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(Recorded) Serbian epic poetry (and that of a broad continuum of peoples in the Balkans, primarily but not exclusively Slavic - I'll mostly limited myself to Serbian here due to limitations of my knowledge, and will explicitly point out if I'm referring to something else) was passed down in spoken form since (at least) the middle ages (there are poems which are believed to be much older in their base form with part of their content overtaken by a reworked version making it about some more recent event, although there are also poems which were made long after the events they're about, basing themselves on other popular retellings), and was eventually written down in the early 19th century as it was being recited by the various local bards. Serbian literature owes a huge debt to Vuk Karadžić whose systematic work to record oral traditions before they're wiped out gives us a powerful window into popular culture among the illiterate and the poor. (Since I'm bringing him up, I might as well bring up the Slovenian linguist Jernej Kopitar who was of tremendous help to Karadžić's work, as well as the support of Wilhelm and especially Jacob Grimm who had a lot of two way correspondence with him and helped give his work weight in academic circles that were otherwise extremely hostile towards recognition of the art of the lower classes) The final quality of the recorded poetry tends to depend on how much of a chord it struck with its audiences throughout the centuries - a diss that was polished and refined by various bards for eager audiences for half a millenium, all people to whom it meant something, tends to hit quite a bit harder than clever wordplay that didn't leave a lasting impression and was passed down as is. (You can find multiple versions of the same poem recorded in different places, and the oldest form tends to remain in places where people cared about the poem in question a lot less) As an aside, there's a lot of extremely horny popular lyrical poetry that was recorded by Vuk but censored by Serbian and later Yugoslav authorities until after WW2 when the communists finally ended the more than a century of censorship on it, although they didn't exactly go out of their way to publish it much either. Popular culture being horny is very much not just a modern thing, and the 'traditionalist' diatribes about this not being the case are utter idiocy. I was gonna write up a lot more about this, even had the intro for it set up above when I mentioned non-Serbian poetry, but then something important crossed my mind so I'm gonna take a break here to talk about something else: To add something that's gonna be relevant in the future, and partially on a personal note Since I'm bringing up some of the many influences that existed in the formation of national sentiment and nationalist movements in the Balkans, and intend to continue doing so after I write up some fun stuff about the popular poetry and broader cultural mileu it interacted with, but aren't going to spend countless hours writing everything up with the entire context provided, and especially not in one go, I feel there is something I need to pre-empt, because it will come up - If I don't spell it out explicitly, I risk some of readers keeping unadressed baggage from what they were previously exposed to that can interact in some rather lovely ways with only a partial depiction of the history in question from the perspective I'm trying to focus on. This is actually going to be significantly longer than the main part of my post above, since I don't want to keep returning to this in the future. There's a weird combination of funny, annoying, and infuriating when I run into 'compassionate conservative' types, usually either some weirdo brand of monarchist Catholic (or in one case a monarchist convert to Orthodox Christianity), or just a super centrist 'why cant we all be friends' liberal from a Germanic country, who are super into Austria-Hungary as some proto-EU or whatever the gently caress, and they always fail to recognize how much their own criticism of the going-ons in the Habsburg domain is shaped and defined by how the culture of the empire perceived itself, since that's what the literature they're shaping and defining their own views was born out of - and said cultural mileu was very much full of poo poo about both itself and everything around it. So they'll look at nationalism in the Balkans and either focus on it as the prime mover of the empire's collapse, with no regard whatsover for the conditions that contributed to its development, within or without the empire, or laser focus in on the Habsburg's actually existing weird anthropologist-imperialist experiments as being far more influencial than they really were, while also seeing them as an unfortunate mistake that was the only possible origin source for nationalist sentiment in the Balkans, because of course the barbarians couldn't just come up with things on their own. (Also, it's loving hilarious how the guys I mentioned would go on about the benevolence of Habsburg administration in a time when said administration was suppressing 19th century uprisings against loving feudalism and doing poo poo like sentencing people to be torn to pieces on a stretching wheel) Austrians desperately wanted to create some sort of a weird cultural Frankenstein in the Balkans that they could control and direct as needed (they tried it with their participation in the Illyrian movement's spread, as one example), but that's not what they created, because they didn't create anything in the first place. They unwittingly opened the door to a process that was already slowly unfolding on its own and it swept away their intented ends like a rushing tide. Generally, they were far more successful when driving religion like a wedge in places where socioeconomic conditions were permissive to creating a divide between populations, but that was a rather blunt tool that they weren't exactly the first to use. Even outside of cultural stuff, their attempts to shape Balkans affairs to their liking failed to result in what they wanted far more often than not. I'll speak about the Serbian revolutions in the Ottoman Empire at some point, as well as the development of the Serbian bourgeoise in the Ottoman Empire, and the similarities between how religious differences preventing the empire's majority population from engaging in certain economic activities influenced Orthodox Christian populations in the empire in similar ways that they influenced Jewish populations in Europe - but on top of these developments, Austria covertly provided Serbian rebels with a limited quantity of weapons as well as means for militias to cross the border during those wars (while also violently crushing Serbian unrest at home at the same time), and despite of that, Serbia's eventual successful negotiations with the Ottomans and the independence-in-all-but-name autonomy Serbia gained and held until the official independence roughly half a century later were primarily driven by "yeah, gently caress you, you know what we think of you, and we're never gonna stop trying to kick your empire out, but we're not idiots who are going to suicide into you for no reason just for the Austrians to walk into the ruins and pick up the pieces." The takes that actually upset me rather than annoy me are the bullshit about how the AH war effort in WW1 wasn't genocidal from the start and instead 'evolved out frustration with failed invasion attempts' - it's the same loving thing every time I have to listen to it - when at the same time the AH was going full crystallnacht on Serbs living in it, converting unused propaganda from other imperialist bullshit (there's an anti-Serb poster I wish I could find again which was clearly reworked from something about the Boxer's Uprising, they removed the braid and changed the eyes, but the hat and moustache were kept as a 'eh close enough' thing, and of course both were conveniently darkened), making plans to replace large areas of Serbian population with German settlers, petty poo poo like intending to rename Belgrade into Prinz Eugenstadt (both of which the Nazis later picked up on and also intended to do after their respective wars were over), and oh there are existing forensic reports from the time period (Serbian government had the foresight to invite Swiss forensic scientists to examine the aftermath of the first invasion, who stuck around for the second, and parts of the third) with lovely stats like (spoilered in case you don't want to read about an actual warcrime) hundreds of women murdered by bleeding to death after breast severing, or being tied to something and set on fire - as separate to the usual 'burned alive' category that artillery fire on inhabeted areas causes sometimes regardless of the intent of the artilleryman. A whole year before the 'frustrated by failed invasions' successful combined invasion happened. gently caress this poo poo.
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Jan 5, 2023 15:45
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mycomancy posted:Which time? The one that comes to my mind first is the one where she misunderstood a word's historical use in documents that meant the opposite of what she was assuming because she couldn't be bothered to try and falsify herself. She certainly has been owned a lot but yeah thats the one I was thinking of Also good post my dad, looking forward to the rest of it
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Jan 5, 2023 16:08
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StashAugustine posted:just remembered Naomi Wolf getting owned https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1401057395720212480?t=l2D1hBWD63W-DqNHpgsqaw&s=19
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