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There's signs all over my area that its a 150 euro fine for dog mess. There's about 600 worth every day just on my street alone to be made.
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Jan 5, 2023 19:00
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| # ? May 25, 2024 22:16 |
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Hold out your hand for them to give you the fixed penalty notice but then move it away so they drop it on the floor and vanish in a puff of logic as they become the litterer
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Jan 5, 2023 19:03
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happyhippy posted:There's signs all over my area that its a 150 euro fine for dog mess. You know you can't just exchange the dogshit for cash, right?
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Jan 5, 2023 19:18
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Failed Imagineer posted:You know you can't just exchange the dogshit for cash, right? Explain how MPs earn a living then
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Jan 5, 2023 19:19
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History Comes Inside! posted:Explain how MPs earn a living then They do it the other way around, a process called Toryism. E: wait I got mixed up there, ah fugit I tried
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Jan 5, 2023 19:22
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They should reassign the litter police to fine the people who let their dogs poo poo on the pavement and don't pick it up
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Jan 5, 2023 19:23
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kecske posted:They should reassign the litter police to fine the people who let their dogs poo poo on the pavement and don't pick it up As long as you get credit for when the dog takes an unholy runny shite and you just ineffectually pat it with a disposable bag before scuttling away in shame
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Jan 5, 2023 19:26
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Failed Imagineer posted:As long as you get credit for when the dog takes an unholy runny shite and you just ineffectually pat it with a disposable bag before scuttling away in shame carry tissues, wipe up, into bag, bag in bin. If it's on grass or something then leave it I guess?
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Jan 5, 2023 19:28
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liquids don't count as littering, imho, be they coffee or literal dogshit
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Jan 5, 2023 19:33
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pouring coffee directly into the drain is littering, yet pouring it into my mouth, waiting a while, then pissing it into the sewer is not, curious
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Jan 5, 2023 19:37
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Gonzo McFee posted:You can just walk away from the litter wardens. They're not real. Apparently they don't have the power to detain you but they are advised to write everything down in their notebooks and contact the police with your crime/description/etc. There should also be two of them to corroborate each other. They're told to come back subsequent days to the same place at the same time to see if they can catch you again and get more evidence on you. They're also told to follow you and see where you live. Its pretty serious business. kecske posted:They should reassign the litter police to fine the people who let their dogs poo poo on the pavement and don't pick it up This is already in their remit.
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Jan 5, 2023 19:37
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Why is it so often that when Brits do something that's good television but centered around a bitter lonely spiteful figure the Americans copy it but make it bigger and more slapstick? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_3BhOCrZkg video from Servicio de Inmigracion's Ring camera. OwlFancier posted:pouring coffee directly into the drain is littering, yet pouring it into my mouth, waiting a while, then pissing it into the sewer is not, curious This is also why you can't complain to the water company when the drains in your street start filling the road with water.
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Jan 5, 2023 19:49
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kecske posted:carry tissues, wipe up, into bag, bag in bin. Fine if your dog is the size of a rat. Literally nothing short of a hose can clean up a big dog's runny poo poo.
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Jan 5, 2023 19:50
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If your dog does a runny poo poo your responsibility to the public is to evacuate them to a safe distance - upwind - and wait for rain
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Jan 5, 2023 19:53
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My cat did a runny poo poo on the bus once and every mother fucker got off the bus at the next stop, there's just no living with that, it's not survivable
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Jan 5, 2023 19:55
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why was your cat on the bus
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Jan 5, 2023 19:56
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He was going to the vet It's actually twice he's done a runny poo poo on the bus and the second time was the school run so it was absolute scenes
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Jan 5, 2023 19:59
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I assume the runny shits are related to the vet.
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Jan 5, 2023 19:59
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Microplastics posted:He was going to the vet Oh good I was worried for a second there you were one of those cat-on-a-leash types.
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Jan 5, 2023 20:00
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OwlFancier posted:I assume the runny shits are related to the vet. Actually he just doesn't like being on the bus and gets the runs. To be fair, on every bus trip he's had, a cat has gone and poo poo on it, so I can see why it doesn't appeal to him
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Jan 5, 2023 20:01
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ThomasPaine posted:Oh good I was worried for a second there you were one of those cat-on-a-leash types. Sorry to disappoint  
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Jan 5, 2023 20:05
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I hear the bee gees all of a sudden.
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Jan 5, 2023 20:07
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https://twitter.com/katierpacker/status/1610991993609494531
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Jan 5, 2023 20:22
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:Fine if your dog is the size of a rat. Literally nothing short of a hose can clean up a big dog's runny poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1AvdrRW4Y8
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Jan 5, 2023 20:24
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Microplastics posted:Sorry to disappoint Noooo. I mean I guess it must be fine if people do it, but it always seemed just a bit... wrong to me, having a cat on a leash. My old neighbours only let theirs outside in the back garden occasionally and used to tie it to one of those swingball posts and it used to just run round in circles a few times then sit there looking defeated.
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Jan 5, 2023 20:44
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know everyone's sick of royals talk, but i got a good laugh out of this deep insight being on the front page of the graun: analysis: man's publishing book about being assaulted by his brother does not bode well for chances of man reconciling with his brother
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Jan 5, 2023 20:46
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Juche Couture posted:Amazing how Starmer and Reeves just get more and more worthless. Any Irish parents/grandparents on either side of the family? It might have been easier if there was not a housing crisis atm.
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Jan 5, 2023 20:49
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ThomasPaine posted:Noooo. Wow yeah that doesn't sound right. My cat has FIV though so a leash is the only way he gets to experience the outdoors, he loves it :3
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Jan 5, 2023 21:20
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Microplastics posted:Wow yeah that doesn't sound right. Well today I learned that cat AIDS was a thing! I had no idea that existed.
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Jan 5, 2023 21:30
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Apparently they don't have the power to detain you but they are advised to write everything down in their notebooks and contact the police with your crime/description/etc. There should also be two of them to corroborate each other. They're told to come back subsequent days to the same place at the same time to see if they can catch you again and get more evidence on you. They're also told to follow you and see where you live. Its pretty serious business. The polis don't bother their arse with burglary half the time, I say take the risk. Litter as a principle to bully these people.
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Jan 5, 2023 21:31
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ThomasPaine posted:Noooo. When I lived in Walthamstow, I kept my kittens in for the first year (busy road/carpark near by), then put a harness on girlie to walk around the communal back garden so she would get to know the smells and where my flat window was in relation to it and she was fine to be off the leash after a few days. My boy - forget it. He just sat there like a lemon. Mind you, it took him 8 weeks of free access from window to garden (ground floor) to risk jumping down to the garden - first time he did it, it was as if he had jumped onto a fire because he was straight up again within a few seconds. Took him another couple of weeks before he would stay in the garden more than a few minutes. Funnily enough, he ended up being the one who roamed far and wide and was especially interested in rolling in puddles of oil in the carpark. As he was surly and wouldn't speak to anyone but me (even after 11 years he wouldn't let the cat sitter touch him), jet black and covered in oil, I always felt he was the cat equivalent of a surly, leather clad, biker.
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Jan 5, 2023 21:50
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It's an offense under the Environmental Protection Act 1999 to refuse to give a correct name and address when issued a FPN, but I've no idea how they make that stick if you keep shtum. They can't detain you, so unless they call the real filth over a dropped fag-end and you're still hanging around when they arrive, I think you just walk away. Some of them apparently wear bodycams, but lmao
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Jan 5, 2023 21:57
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Wachter posted:It's an offense under the Environmental Protection Act 1999 to refuse to give a correct name and address when issued a FPN, but I've no idea how they make that stick if you keep shtum. They can't detain you, so unless they call the real filth over a dropped fag-end and you're still hanging around when they arrive, I think you just walk away. Some of them apparently wear bodycams, but lmao Your Honour I present to the court Exhibit C [40 minute bodycam footage of a dweeb following someone around whining "plllleeease tell me your name, go on, pleassse"]
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Jan 5, 2023 22:05
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If you litter, even if it's "just" a fag ends, you're a oval office and you should just pay any fine without complaint, and try to be a better human being.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:06
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Pablo Bluth posted:If you litter, even if it's "just" a fag ends, you're a oval office and you should just pay any fine without complaint, and try to be a better human being. On one hand you're right. On the other, gently caress grasses.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:29
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if you witness littering don't grass them up. Bury them yourself
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Jan 5, 2023 22:33
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Know Your Rights: Council Busybodies Edition A disclaimer: if you are actually in this situation you should take proper legal advice tailored to your situation and circumstances, and if you have in fact littered then you should take the ticket and pay it, it's much cheaper and easier than going to court and getting fined. You have two basic options should a jobsworth try to give you a ticket for something you haven't done: gently caress off before they can get anywhere, or take the ticket and fight it. A false name and address is being too clever by half; if you're going to do that you might as well just gently caress off, which is much less likely to backfire on you. If you are going to gently caress off, don't fanny about trying to make your mind up, don't gob off at them, don't threaten them, just do one as quickly as possible. The jobsworths can only touch you if they're defending themselves, which they won't be if you're not threatening them. The police are very thinly spread these days, and the only way they'll turn out to this is if you're unlucky enough to go past them while you're trying to gently caress off. You're doing nothing wrong, you've not committed any offence, you're just going about your business. Nobody is going to track you down later to give you a lovely ticket for something that didn't happen. Especially not if you don't get close enough to them to leave a decent body-worn video image behind. It's an offence to refuse your details when required, or to give false details when required, but if they never actually make the requirement... If you are extremely unfortunate and the police somehow get involved before you can gently caress off, then you will probably have to take the ticket unless the police are in a good mood (not impossible, many of them hate council jobsworths as well) or get called away to something more urgent. It's the shittiest little non-imprisonable non-recordable criminal offence imaginable, but littering is a criminal offence (section 87 Environmental Protection Act 1990), and you can be arrested if necessary to establish your correct name and address. If you are going to fight it: give your details and get it over with as quickly as possible. They shouldn't try to do a street interview with you as happens on other similar occasions (fare evasion or motoring offences); if they do start talking about "you're free to leave, but you do not have to say anything...", stay, it's probably better for you to tell them why you haven't littered than it is to say nothing, and then get it over with. Once they're done, then before you leave, write down the exact time of day, and look around exactly where you are in all three dimensions. You're looking for passers-by who look like they don't like council jobsworths - they may be prepared to give you their contact details and help you fight the ticket. You're also looking for CCTV cameras pointing at where you were; make a note of their location and who they appear to belong to. Make a note of how many jobsworths were there, did they have BWV, was it switched on? Then, carry on with your day, and the next evening, go back to s87 Environmental Protection Act, look at it objectively and with a harsh eye, and make sure you haven't committed the offence. The s87 offence is very widely written. It is possible to not do anything that would be morally considered "littering", while being guilty of the s87 offence. Feeding birds could easily be seen as a s87 offence. This is a strict liability offence; what you intended to do is irrelevant, it only matters what you actually did do. If you have committed the offence, you should pay the ticket, which is much less obnoxious and much cheaper than going to court. Your defences include, but are not limited to: Straight denial - you didn't drop or leave behind any item at all for any reason, and the jobsworths are simply mistaken about what they saw (or outright lying). Simple and easy; if you get to trial it will end up as a case of who the mags believe more, which is a completely unpredicable crapshoot. I did drop or deposit something, but that item was not "litter" - the word "litter" is partly defined by s98 of the Act so as to include dog-ends and chewing gum. It is otherwise undefined and takes its ordinary meaning. It will perhaps be easier to argue that a full cardboard coffee cup is not litter, than for an empty styrofoam takeaway box. It will help if e.g. you can be seen and heard on BWV shaking your half-full drink bottle and going "I've still got some, I just put it down for a moment while I got my phone out, I was going to drink it". Whether or not a bird-feeder's bread or seeds is "litter" is an unresolved question; on the one hand it's no further use to you, on the other hand it's of further use to the birds. When I win the Lottery I will pay the costs for someone to take that one all the way to the Court of Appeal and see if we can get a favourable precedent. In the meantime, you're banking on the council going "actually our jobsworths' evidence is shite, let's drop it", or "more trouble than it's worth", or getting into the Wild West of the magistrates' court and praying for a bench who hate jobsworths more than they hate people who drop litter. I had some litter with me, but I did not drop or deposit it - if you dropped the litter you are probably SOL regardless of how few nanoseconds it was on the ground before you picked it up again and regardless of if it was an accident. If you're the kind of risk-taker who enjoys the idea of running "my bird-feeding bread is not litter", you could try running "I dropped it by accident and picked it up immediately", and again, Lottery-winning me will pay for you to take it all the way. "I only put it down for a moment and I was about to bin it" seems a lot less credible than "I only put it down for a moment and anyway it wasn't litter". More technical defences like "I think you'll find that I wasn't on the ground of a principal litter authority" are very unlikely, but if you're sure you're in the right, do have fun with it, you'll make the council look very stupid and open them up to further action from people who may have been given invalid tickets. Once you decide you're going to contest the ticket, see if you're eligible for mags court legal aid. You will be if you claim UC or other qualifying benefit; there's a calculator for if you don't. If so, ASAP contact a criminal defence solicitor who accepts legal aid cases (this should be easy), tell them what's happened, see what their advice is. If you aren't eligible for legal aid because you've got more money than sense and want to pay a solicitor, do that. If you have to run this yourself: contact all the CCTV owners who you identified at the scene and get their CCTV. They should give it to you if it's going to be evidence in a court case. (It's much easier to get this if you have a solicitor who can confirm this isn't a load of old poo poo.) You may have to resort to the Subject Access Request process, which is better than nothing. Contact any witnesses and confirm whether they're prepared to go to court for you. Dispute the ticket, see if the council drop it as a waste of time. If they want to prosecute, they have six months from the date of the offence to send you a summons or postal requisition. Enjoy the mags court backlog, expect it to take forever and a day before it goes anywhere near a court. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 22:52
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Pablo Bluth posted:If you litter, even if it's "just" a fag ends, you're a oval office and you should just pay any fine without complaint, and try to be a better human being. Fag ends are a nightmare and I don't understand why smokers think it's not littering. Had a job as a pub cleaner when I first came back to the UK and despite the outside smoking areas being copiously equipped with ash buckets, ash trays and so forth, smokers would just chuck their revolting stubs all over the floors (even right next to an ash bin) and in the small garden and I had to pick them out with my hands. Gross & disgusting habit.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:55
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Seems like the whole conundrum could be simply resolved by the authorised officers offering to withhold the FPN if the offender bins the litter and promises not to do it again or whatever. But they don't do that, they fine you regardless; at least one Council's FAQ on the subject explicitly states that if you volunteer to pick up the litter you'll still be fined.Environmental Protection Act 1990, Section 88 posted:(1)Where on any occasion an authorised officer of a litter authority finds a person who he has reason to believe has on that occasion committed an offence under section 87 above in the area of that authority, he may give that person a notice offering him the opportunity of discharging any liability to conviction for that offence by payment of a fixed penalty. I don't believe they're required to demonstrate evidence. They can just rock up to you, demand your name and address, and then the burden's on you to challenge the FPN in court, at which point you'll almost certainly lose and be slapped with fees on top.
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Jan 5, 2023 23:00
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I'm really glad you were bored tonight cause that was great.
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Jan 5, 2023 23:06
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