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BurningBeard posted:I don't mind clunky and old school under a lot of circumstances. What specifically would you call out as dated in a bad way? Other than the inventory tetris which survives to this day in some games. Inventory tetris is cool and good  The dated stuff is, roughly: 1) you need to buy individual scrolls of town portal and identify. 2) you need to stock and equip individual health potions 3) hot keys and skill buttons are generally less accessible. This was very much a game designed around having a primary and secondary skill on the two mouse buttons. They've kinda fixed this, but frankly the implementation isn't great on PC. Might be better on console? 3) Skills are locked when you select them, so no mixing and matching on the fly. You get a free respec part way through the first act, and can get a total of 3 of those on any single character, after which you need to grind end game poo poo to earn materials for more. 4) It's absolutely possible to build a character that won't be able to do end game poo poo. Note that "end game" is re-running the game on harder difficulties, the first difficulty can be cleared by pretty much whatever garbage build and found gear you string together. 1 and 2 are the most obviously bad for minute-to-minute gameplay. They were 100% correct when they just made TP, ID, and health pot hot key skills. It's an annoying thing to juggle with a new character (saving gold for scrolls) and by the time you're two acts in you just need to fill up at the store every time you return to town, which just becomes a dumb chore. fake edit: oh yeah, your character has stamina. Early game this is super annoying as you'll run out of stamina to run and need to either stop for a minute to take a breather (really fun in your hack and slash game) or down a stamina potion. By the time you get ~10-15 levels in your stamina pool gets big enough that it's effectively unlimited and this ceases to be a mechanic you need to think about at all. Still annoying every time you roll a new character and go "oh yeah stamina lol."
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Jan 5, 2023 21:42
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To add to those: - Drop rates are abysmal. You don't need good drops to beat the game but in the last twenty years, we've learned that finding good poo poo frequently is what most people want - Every character has skills that are so bad you do not want to invest a single point. Others are 1-5 point wonders, others need to be maxed before they are useful. There's no way to tell what's worthwhile unless you either spend hours and hours leveling and experimenting, or look up guides/forums. - It takes literally months of grinding to get the last few levels to 99, to the point where most people who practice self-care have never had a level 99 character. You don't need a 99 character but it's another example of something that would raise eyebrows if it came out today - Some stats are important but obtuse unless you look them up online. Take faster cast rate, for instance. You might think any time you add more FCR, it makes you a little bit faster, but really FCR is just a table of breakpoint values you need to reach to reduce the casting animation by 1 more frame, and any additions between the breakpoints don't do poo poo. I think D2 is a great game and prefer it to D3 but I played D2 when it was current. I can totally see someone stepping into D2 in 2023 and doing an immediate 180, like I did when I tried to play Baldur's Gate 2 a couple years ago
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Jan 5, 2023 21:54
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Potion guzzling is by far the most irritating aspect of Diablo 2 to me. There's a ton of spamming early on and spare potions won't autofill when you use up the spot on your toolbelt, making reassigning them tedious. That and the way charms work mean that you ideally want to have almost zero space in your inventory, for a game that already has very limited inventory space. D2R has a lot of other design problems but these are mostly things you won't recognize until you get deep into endgame, such as Sorcs and Hammerdins being about a thousand times better than anyone to the extent that the fastest way to make, say, a Fireclaws Druid is to first roll an MF Sorc to get the gear you need for it rather than roll a Druid from scratch. Also many later runewords are super OP so 99.9% of all ten billion legendaries in the game are pretty much useless and D2 becomes more about finding small orange pixels than actual loot on the ground. D3 has kind of the same problem except with Paragon levels.
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Jan 5, 2023 21:55
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exquisite tea posted:Potion guzzling is by far the most irritating aspect of Diablo 2 to me. There's a ton of spamming early on and spare potions won't autofill when you use up the spot on your toolbelt, making reassigning them tedious. Worse, the belt key binds are numbers 1-4 on your keyboard, while the skill keybinds become the f-keys. And remember, originally the f-binds just swapped your right click ability, although in D2R they can fire directly. This makes using multiple skills super awkward. In D3 slapping the number keys to trigger abilities isn't that bad, but reaching up for the F-keys becomes a real hassle in D2. Again, probably better on console, but I've never played D2 with a controller.
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Jan 5, 2023 21:58
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I think in D2R the keybinds work like they do in D3 actually. So it doesn't just change your right click skill. It is indeed easy to play with a controller, though. Edit: you said this. I am dumb.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:00
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3rd party programs had the best potion qol: put hp, mp, juv on hotkeys and they'll even use them from inventory. Pressing q to drink a mana potion is amazing. Cyrano4747 posted:Worse, the belt key binds are numbers 1-4 on your keyboard, while the skill keybinds become the f-keys. And remember, originally the f-binds just swapped your right click ability, although in D2R they can fire directly. D2R has some really nice qol changes. I kinda wish they took it even further. The original game still exists, and it's not like D2R is compatible with it in any way. They might as well go all-out and start improving the QoL on more and more things. Khorne fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 22:01
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exquisite tea posted:Potion guzzling is by far the most irritating aspect of Diablo 2 to me. How can you say this when there's a stamina bar?
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Jan 5, 2023 22:02
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Field Mousepad posted:How can you say this when there's a stamina bar? but yeah it's a bad "feature" that has no place in the game as it released nevermind the game today Potions are annoying because you need to constantly restock your inventory/belt with them. The game was even more annoying when you couldn't buy potions. I guess once you get insight they stop being as important, but they're definitely a constant burden. I did a push for 94 in classic hc a few years back and you always need mana pots. Endless mana pots. Keep one rolling for the entire run. Khorne fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 22:02
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Field Mousepad posted:How can you say this when there's a stamina bar? It ceases to be an issue relatively quickly, while you're popping potions forever.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:03
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Stamina becomes a total non-issue as soon as you build up some Vitality (oh yeah, I hope you figured out that every other stat except Vitality is pretty much pointless outside of being able to wear armor and gimmick builds).
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Jan 5, 2023 22:04
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I always spam chug stamina potions on fresh characters to stack up the infinite stamina buff duration. They only cost like 15 gold a piece or so. This does not mean the stamina system is not clunky and kinda dumb.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:05
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External Organs posted:I think in D2R the keybinds work like they do in D3 actually. So it doesn't just change your right click skill. It is indeed easy to play with a controller, though. I'll give the d2r team credit for how they did the key binds on PC. You hit the button, skill on right click swaps to it, fires it off, and swaps back to what you had on right click. Nifty way to get around the way it was originally programmed in ye olde days. Console is just traditional assign skill to button. I liked how D3 did skills: runes add flavor to a base skill. Not necessarily strict upgrades as the runes unlock but each one adds stuff you might need. Not all skills were like that but a lot were.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:07
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exquisite tea posted:D2R has a lot of other design problems but these are mostly things you won't recognize until you get deep into endgame, such as Sorcs and Hammerdins being about a thousand times better than anyone to the extent that the fastest way to make, say, a Fireclaws Druid is to first roll an MF Sorc to get the gear you need for it rather than roll a Druid from scratch. Also many later runewords are super OP so 99.9% of all ten billion legendaries in the game are pretty much useless and D2 becomes more about finding small orange pixels than actual loot on the ground. D3 has kind of the same problem except with Paragon levels. I think the bolded part is important for people trying to decide if they want to try D2 in 2023. D2 definitely has a horrifically unbalanced endgame, but endgame is a much different beast from just leveling to kill Baal, which is what I imagine a lot of casual players might be interested in doing and stopping there. For these gamers, the sets and uniques you find can still be usable. There's lots of junk even if you're playing self-found, but less than if you are looking to speedrun endgame and use external markets to trade gear. FWIW I think both playstyles are fully valid, but I don't think anyone who isn't aiming for efficient end-game farming should worry about the power levels of high runewords, it won't come up Also I'm not saying you shouldn't have posted this or are wrong, I just wanted to share another interpretation of your objectively true statements re: endgame
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Jan 5, 2023 22:09
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My favourite D2 thing is that chance to block and defence go to zero when running.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:12
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AlbertFlasher posted:My favourite D2 thing is that chance to block and defence go to zero when running. This is based on how bad Chris Metzen was at jogging.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:13
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Also I only recently discovered that many D2 players apparently pronounce Sorc as "source" rather than "sork." Absolutely disgusting.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:20
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Garbage people.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:22
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exquisite tea posted:Also I only recently discovered that many D2 players apparently pronounce Sorc as "source" rather than "sork." Absolutely disgusting. Wait there are actually people that pronounce it Sork? Wtf? This is a thing?
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Jan 5, 2023 22:29
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exquisite tea posted:Also I only recently discovered that many D2 players apparently pronounce Sorc as "source" rather than "sork." Absolutely disgusting. It's pronounced source, D3 has a callback to the abbreviation in the wizard's class specific offhand.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:38
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AlbertFlasher posted:Wait there are actually people that pronounce it Sork? Wtf? This is a thing? Khorne fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 22:38
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Sorc like orc, you cannot convince me otherwise.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:39
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I thought Sorc was literally just short for the word Sorcerer so why would it be pronounced as sork?
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Jan 5, 2023 22:42
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exquisite tea posted:Also I only recently discovered that many D2 players apparently pronounce Sorc as "source" rather than "sork." Absolutely disgusting. AlbertFlasher posted:Wait there are actually people that pronounce it Sork? Wtf? This is a thing? The two genders. For the record, exquisite tea is right and AlbertFlasher is among the unclean. Also, it’s pronounced “gif.”
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Jan 5, 2023 22:46
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Blurb3947 posted:I thought Sorc was literally just short for the word Sorcerer so why would it be pronounced as sork? Because the language we’re using is English and the only way to pronounce a solitary c at the end of a word is as a hard k sound. Those are the rules. I’m sure nobody will come along shortly and give an example that breaks the rules.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:49
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Diablo III Thread: Errant Sorcin'
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Jan 5, 2023 22:52
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Blurb3947 posted:I thought Sorc was literally just short for the word Sorcerer so why would it be pronounced as sork?
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Jan 5, 2023 22:54
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when diablo 4 comes out, can we have two separate threads depending on whether you have an insane or normal pronunciation of sorc
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Jan 5, 2023 22:54
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Thanks for getting into the archaisms goons. Dig it. The potion thing would irritate the piss out of me, for sure. But if you can get up and running to a degree where there’s less micro, overall, at some point during the leveling process I think I could shrug it off. Is Titan Quest worth playing? I always got this weird feeling like it was pretty solid, but if I don’t pull the plug on D2, I’d possibly go for that one instead.
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Jan 5, 2023 23:04
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The thing that I always come back to, personally, is elemental immunities. Being effectively unable to play the game because gently caress you is generally not A Thing anymore.exquisite tea posted:Stamina becomes a total non-issue as soon as you build up some Vitality (oh yeah, I hope you figured out that every other stat except Vitality is pretty much pointless outside of being able to wear armor and gimmick builds).
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Jan 5, 2023 23:04
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BurningBeard posted:Thanks for getting into the archaisms goons. Dig it. The potion thing would irritate the piss out of me, for sure. Titan Quest is my favorite of the off-brand D2 clones and the later DLC aren't too terrible either if you can get them on sale. It's super slow though, would strongly recommend downloading the X-MAX mod that triples or quadruples the mob density in certain areas.
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Jan 5, 2023 23:07
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Regarding D2, if this matters to you, there are very few games that can match it's atmosphere. It's a dark game, in all the good ways. It has one of the best soundtracks in history, it's perfect. It's already been said but D3 is much easier to get into and has a lot of quality of life features over D2.
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Jan 5, 2023 23:45
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And here I thought they announced details of the next season. Diablo 2 was great when it came be out, I don't care much for it now and it hasn't aged well IMO. D3 is still fun to play for a week every season. D4 I'm not sure I'll even play until they have a year or two to make it not bad. This concludes my TED talk.
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Jan 6, 2023 00:14
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Tin foil hat theory: they stop doing seasons for D3 to try to get more people playing D4.
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Jan 6, 2023 01:04
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AlbertFlasher posted:My favourite D2 thing is that chance to block and defence go to zero when running. Fact-check: block gets cut to one-third while running 
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Jan 6, 2023 01:11
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i love d2 but idk if I'd recommend it to someone to try for the first time in 2023. maybe if they really loved ARPGs, but if someone somehow is into ARPGs in 2023 and hasn't played D2, then it's going to feel like a step back in almost every way as the entire genre is chock full of d2 stuff, except with a decade or more of iteration and qol. d3 is probably a better game to get into for someone wanting to try diablo games out. exquisite tea posted:This is what happens when you design your game around Battle.net complaint posts instead of having any sort of unique vision. Yeah that's mostly my sense of it. It's got some D2, but not enough that it's going to meaningfully satisfy D2 fans, it's actually a return to the old conceptual vision of a diablo sequel as an open world mmo... which blizzard scrapped, what, twice for being fundamentally unworkable. Instead most of the game just looks like a kind of generic mmo, albeit dressed up in something of a diablo aesthetic. Hopefully the mount cosmetics are good because people are going to be spending a ton of a time on a mount. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 01:17
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big cummers ONLY posted:I think D2 is a great game and prefer it to D3 but I played D2 when it was current. I can totally see someone stepping into D2 in 2023 and doing an immediate 180, like I did when I tried to play Baldur's Gate 2 a couple years ago Sometimes you just can't go back, and that's fine. Both BG2 and D2 should be appreciated for what they were at the time but how sad would it be if that was the end of evolution for games. WoW Classic was super interesting to me, having played then but not played it in forever, because all those patches that sanded over the rough edges and made things more fun or accessible were declared to have ruined the perfect purity of 2004. This lasted until the #nochanges people got their game and started making all the same complaints I remember seeing from the original release. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the fate of D2R as well, though I admittedly haven't followed the discourse surrounding that beyond hearing "Blizzard ruined it" a bunch. bio347 posted:Being effectively unable to play the game because gently caress you is generally not A Thing anymore. Excuse me but I believe you mean "build diversity".
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Jan 6, 2023 02:26
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The D2R team has actually implemented a number of changes to their game such that it's significantly diverged from the original pre-remake version and arguably stands on its own legs I could never go back to a Summoner Druid that only has one summon type at a time
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Jan 6, 2023 03:21
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I just beat original Diablo over the past few days and it is an entirely different gameplay experience than later Diablo-type games. It’s all about making sure not to pull too many monsters at once and going slowly and methodically. It’s a real pain in the rear end after not having touched it in about twenty years. Diablo 2 feels modern by comparison, but boy oh boy does the inventory space feel limited. The more I play these old Diablo games the more I appreciate Diablo 3. After I beat D2 I suppose I’ll mess with the mobile phone game, that way Diablo 3 feels even better.
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Jan 6, 2023 03:38
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Please don't download Diablo Immortal and support garbage like that.
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Jan 6, 2023 03:41
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PringleCreamEgg posted:I just beat original Diablo over the past few days and it is an entirely different gameplay experience than later Diablo-type games. It’s all about making sure not to pull too many monsters at once and going slowly and methodically. It’s a real pain in the rear end after not having touched it in about twenty years. OG diablo definitely feels like a survival horror game and its because of how it plays lol
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Jan 6, 2023 03:43
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