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I'll definitely be waiting for benchmarks if there's something going on with heterogeneous cores, especially phoronix benchmarks in Linux. Without some weird performance characteristics it'll probably be the 7950x3d. But heterogeneous cores are the main reason I'm not really considering Intel this generation since I want to give it at least another couple of years for Linux + qemu/kvm support to shake out. Though with the terrible motherboard selection any additional time I can wait to give them time to release better SKUs the better.
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Jan 5, 2023 08:01
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AMD also mentioned in passing during their presentation that there will be new "entry-level" AM5 motherboards coming soon, probably at around the same time as the non-X CPUs. I just hope they're not cut down too much. Current AM5 pricing is way too high even for the featureset these motherboards support.
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Jan 5, 2023 08:47
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gradenko_2000 posted:yeah it seems like there's a bunch of these Steam Deck-likes in development or on the market by now, all of them using laptop APUs, so any big leaps in APU tech is probably going to filter down to these devices Yeah the 7640 especially is gonna be real interesting when it starts to show up in handheld PCs with Zen 4+RDNA3, the current 6800U can only really match the Steam Deck until you start shoving 20+ watts into it and then you start having to shove a stupidly big battery in the device. If nothing else it'll be able to justify using 1080p screens in them. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:AMD also mentioned in passing during their presentation that there will be new "entry-level" AM5 motherboards coming soon, probably at around the same time as the non-X CPUs. I just hope they're not cut down too much. Current AM5 pricing is way too high even for the featureset these motherboards support. I hope this ends up panning out, but they said the B650 boards would be affordable as well so I'm not holding my breath.
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Jan 5, 2023 09:19
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https://www.anandtech.com/show/18709/amd-unveils-ryzen-9-7950x3d-7900x3d-and-ryzen-7-7800x3d-up-to-128-mb-of-l3-cache-and-5-7-ghz-boost AMD Ryzen 7000X/X3D Series lineup Cores Threads BaseFreq TurboFreq Memory Support L3Cache TDP MSRP Ryzen 9 7950X3D 16C / 32T 4.2 GHz 5.7 GHz DDR5-5200 128 MB 120 W TBD Ryzen 9 7900X3D 12C / 24T 4.4 GHz 5.6 GHz DDR5-5200 128 MB 120 W TBD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 8C / 16T TBD 5.0 GHz DDR5-5200 96 MB 120 W TBD
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Jan 5, 2023 09:38
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interesting, not all ccd’s get the 3d cachequote:Both the 7950X3D and the 7900X3D have two four-core chiplets, marking the first time that AMD has brought this tech to a multi-CCD processor. As you can see in the above image, AMD only mounts a single SRAM chiplet atop one CCD, leaving the other CCD bare. This allows the chiplet without the 3D-stacked SRAM to operate at full speed, thus delivering the high boost clocks we see on the spec sheet. Meanwhile, the SRAM-stacked CCD will operate at a slightly lower clock rate than the rated boost for the chip. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-unveils-three-ryzen-7000x3d-v-cache-chips-three-new-65w-non-x-cpus-too amd are also unlocking pbo/co aside from direct overlocking unlike with 5800X3D afaict. still would like that bios support for curve optimise though let’s hope the thread scheduling is up for the task kliras fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 11:43
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That reads more like you need the AMD chipset driver, that’ll come with a game/app list to hint the scheduling. FFS AMD, make a 7970X3D then.
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Jan 5, 2023 11:50
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just buy 800x3d at that point lmao
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Jan 5, 2023 11:58
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orcane posted:I currently have a 5800X3D in a Dan A4 with a puny Noctua NH-L9a, it's fine Nice. I have same cooler but in a Silverstone ml-09. 50c while spreadsheeting and 73c while gaming. Seems fine. Although I found a cardboard riser on the fan to ensure it sucks fresh air from outside the case helped tremendously. I have an msi b450, think it's itx, and because of the cooler orientation the discharge through the vanes is only like 4mm from the ram. So my ram gets blasted constantly but hot air.
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Jan 5, 2023 12:58
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don't worry, the ram can take it. in fact, it probably runs cooler being blasted by your cpu exhaust than it does with no airflow at all. i know this is usually true of other components near the cpu like the vrm
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Jan 5, 2023 13:27
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https://twitter.com/RyanSmithAT/status/1610974871575744514
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Jan 5, 2023 13:41
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Hardware Canucks says the 3d in 5800x doesn't matter that much. But gamers all over the thread and in my discords says it does. What's the truth?
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Jan 5, 2023 14:47
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the truth is that no one really watches hardware canucks these days. the benchmarks are readily available. they get a little toasty and have to be manually "undervolted" with pbo2, but that's about the issues. obviously don't upgrade from a 5800X to an X3D unless you're stupid rich or something, in which case you should just get the am5 stuff
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Jan 5, 2023 14:51
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Toalpaz posted:Hardware Canucks says the 3d in 5800x doesn't matter that much. But gamers all over the thread and in my discords says it does. What's the truth? Hardware Canucks niche is very pretty b-rolls, not good reviews/reporting. That said, it very much depends on the games you play and the settings you play at.
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Jan 5, 2023 15:12
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The 3D in 5800X3D matters a huge amount. Look at literally any review for it, and you'll see reviewers going gaga over how much more performance 64MB of cache can provide. edit: vvvv this is true though. i had automatically assumed we were talking about gaming, but in many applications it's actually slower than the 5800X due to the lower clock speed. applications need to be cache sensitive to benefit from the 3d vcache, and games are exactly that which is why it's such a good gaming cpu. it's also generally pretty good at simulation workloads Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 15:17
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Toalpaz posted:Hardware Canucks says the 3d in 5800x doesn't matter that much. But gamers all over the thread and in my discords says it does. What's the truth? there’s stuff it matters a lot for and stuff where it doesn’t matter at all. consult application-specific benchmarks
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Jan 5, 2023 15:43
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Toalpaz posted:Hardware Canucks says the 3d in 5800x doesn't matter that much. But gamers all over the thread and in my discords says it does. What's the truth? In games it's a goddamn CPU miracle
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Jan 5, 2023 15:58
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Toalpaz posted:Hardware Canucks says the 3d in 5800x doesn't matter that much. But gamers all over the thread and in my discords says it does. What's the truth? The X3D performs much better on a wide range of games and vastly better on a subset. If you are into the type of games that are demanding on CPU (sim type stuff, Stellaris and other big strategy, etc), it's definitely worth it. For the majority of people with midrange, circa $1k* systems who play mostly action and online games, it doesn't matter as much. If that's you, you will probably have better performance over the next 3-5 years by saving the $150-200 with a cheaper CPU and putting it towards an earlier GPU upgrade. *non-pandemic & gpu shortage price Higher budget targets make the X3d easily worth the upgrade. And the other thing that many are hoping for is that the 5800x3d will be one of those CPUs that stays good for a long time, so that they can keep their system for several years more than normal. tl;dr if buying the x3d is stretching your budget, it's probably not worth it
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Jan 5, 2023 15:59
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Klyith posted:tl;dr if buying the x3d is stretching your budget, it's probably not worth it yeah, the only thing i'd add here is, if you're primarily a simulator/mapgames player, check some benches for x3d and decide if you want to skip a gpu upgrade and spend that money on an x3d instead because it's a minor boost in some but a complete goddamn gamechanger in others lmao
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Jan 5, 2023 16:36
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Okay, thanks gamers. E: I've determined that a 5xxx upgrade is better than going to am5 for me, and the savings going towards a 5800x 3d makes sense for me.
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Jan 5, 2023 18:16
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I'm thinking about the 7700 for my next desktop upgrade -- whenever I decide to finally move from AM4 to AM5. It looks like memory is actually gonna be the thing that pushes me toward that, whenever it does happen. Not because I need to go from DDR4 to DDR5 for performance reasons, but because my desktop currently has 16G, which was plenty for a very long time. But as I've started having idle and/or turn-based games constantly running as well as my browser and editor/terminal session, I'm finally getting close to filling that up. And my dumb, hardware-as-a-toy poisoned brain is rationalizing this as a reason to rebuild my desktop, rather than just buying 32G of DDR4. I'll probably be upgrading my crunchboxes to 7950X3Ds, but that will be happening rather later on. And depending on costs, it might make more sense to go for 7900X3Ds. What I've learned with the 3950s and 5950s is that if you have a singular multithreaded workload that wants AS MANY CORES AS POSSIBLE, then the x950s are what you're after. But if your workload is a constant stream of MANY, SINGLE-THREADED processes then the real-world throughput can be really, really close between an x900 and an x950.
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Jan 5, 2023 18:27
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https://twitter.com/aschilling/status/1611051468160655365?t=n3cl2pMbX1K9b1Bn-VkOpA&s=19
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Jan 5, 2023 18:36
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Would going from a 5600X to a 5800X3D be a worthwhile upgrade? I play a lot of paradox games and Factorio and similar stuff
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Jan 5, 2023 18:53
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Hmmm, I'm split about this. I guess it'll be a regular 7950X with an eventual sidegrade to an 8950X3D, if they do put V-Cache on both dies. Zen5 is rumored to be a bigger step forward, regardless, so in combination with V-Cache, maybe a shorter upgrade cycle would still be worthwhile. Regarding the asymmetry, I don't know what to think about it. The upcoming CPU driver will probably just attempt to detect what foreground application is hogging Direct3D and lasso it as much as possible. I don't expect clever scheduling.
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Jan 5, 2023 18:54
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VostokProgram posted:Would going from a 5600X to a 5800X3D be a worthwhile upgrade? I play a lot of paradox games and Factorio and similar stuff From everything I've read, the cache makes a big difference in exactly those use cases.
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Jan 5, 2023 18:57
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VostokProgram posted:Would going from a 5600X to a 5800X3D be a worthwhile upgrade? I play a lot of paradox games and Factorio and similar stuff Everything I've read about the 3D tells me that the cache is basically heaven for Paradox games, Rimworld, Factorio and similar games.
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Jan 5, 2023 18:58
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I guess it depends on the performance impact/latency hit of going across the fabric to access the cache hat vs the advantage the extra 700mhz gets you. Might depend on the workload. Would be kinda funny if they set the preferred cores to the hat-less die because the frequency looks better in 1T cinebench or something.
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Jan 5, 2023 19:04
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BrassRoots posted:Nice. I have same cooler but in a Silverstone ml-09. 50c while spreadsheeting and 73c while gaming. Seems fine. Although I found a cardboard riser on the fan to ensure it sucks fresh air from outside the case helped tremendously. I think warm airflow is better than no airflow there?
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Jan 5, 2023 19:04
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VostokProgram posted:Would going from a 5600X to a 5800X3D be a worthwhile upgrade? I play a lot of paradox games and Factorio and similar stuff Both are hard to benchmark but factorio at least has some and show a >50% uplift in UPS according to HUB. https://youtu.be/ajDUIJalxis Back on zen4 3D… This heterogenous core config stuff has to be some sort of test for epyc CPUs? I’m going to be pleasantly surprised if it works but I’m skeptical.
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Jan 5, 2023 19:06
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BurritoJustice posted:Word is, the 3D VCache CCD can only run up to 5GHz. Ardryn posted:Everything I've read about the 3D tells me that the cache is basically heaven for Paradox games, Rimworld, Factorio and similar games. It's a bit of departure from the traditional object-oriented design which has dominated the industry (of programming, as a whole) for decades and which took over from procedural programming (ie. working primarily with functions), but the basic idea is to give up on the object model and instead consider the types of data, the memory layout, and most importantly how it's going to be read and executed by the program. The biggest advantages that come of this design process is that it can be easier to parallelize certain subprocesses (which isn't to say that suddenly games will start utilizing all cores fully, just that it can be easier to not have one main thread that has to do everything), but moreso than that, what the design process offers is that it lets you have very tight control over data with the express purpose of ensuring it's continuous, and can thus be processed sequentialy which means the cache use shoots up as does the efficiency. EDIT: I suck at explaining it, so have a couple of videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0ItVEVjHc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDIkqP4JbkE BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 19:07
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Word from who? Word from amds own charts that put the boost speed of the 7800x3d at it. The other parts boost harder though.
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Jan 5, 2023 19:20
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Word from amds own charts that put the boost speed of the 7800x3d at it. The other parts boost harder though. Is there something that leads people to conclude that this must be because of the 3D V-Cache?
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Jan 5, 2023 19:23
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Sure, I noticed that the 7800X3D has a lower boost clock - but it's also the runt of the litter, so why shouldn't it have a slower clock speed? The speculation is that it's the CCD without vcache that allows the others to boost higher; ie only the cores in the ccd without vcache will hit peak boost for the dual ccd parts. I think the thing leading people to believe that is most likely the vcache being the reason cited for difficulty cooling and thus restricted power on the 5800x3d. E: and the difference in boost is way more than you'd expect to see, normally if it was just segmentation and binning. There's 600mhz separating the 7800x3d and the 7900x3d. VorpalFish fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 19:33
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It also boosts lower than every non x3d sku below it, including the 7600. That is... Kind of a smoking gun.
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Jan 5, 2023 19:38
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Sure, I noticed that the 7800X3D has a lower boost clock - but it's also the runt of the litter, so why shouldn't it have a slower clock speed? Per this Tom's Hardware piece, the part about clocks being reduced because of cache appears to be confirmed: quote:Both the 7950X3D and the 7900X3D have two four-core chiplets, marking the first time that AMD has brought this tech to a multi-CCD processor. As you can see in the above image, AMD only mounts a single SRAM chiplet atop one CCD, leaving the other CCD bare. This allows the chiplet without the 3D-stacked SRAM to operate at full speed, thus delivering the high boost clocks we see on the spec sheet. Meanwhile, the SRAM-stacked CCD will operate at a slightly lower clock rate than the rated boost for the chip. Not clear to me if they're reporting on the basis of just the CES stuff, which I didn't watch, or if they also obtained some comment from AMD separately. I haven't actually seen anyone cite numbers for clocks on the vcache-CCD for the 7950 or 7900 models. So the part that's still speculative seems to be that the clocks on the CCD with the added cache will resemble those of the 7800x3d core.
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Jan 5, 2023 20:07
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From the same article:quote:AMD’s only allowed overclocking the memory and infinity fabric for the previous-gen 5800X3D, not other forms of core overclocking, but will now allow [...] Precision Boost Overdrive (PBO) 
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Jan 5, 2023 21:19
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VostokProgram posted:Would going from a 5600X to a 5800X3D be a worthwhile upgrade? I play a lot of paradox games and Factorio and similar stuff i saw some german dude benchmark his lategame stellaris saves (just let the game run with zero input for 360 days several times on each cpu) when he upgraded from 5800x to 5800x3d and he saw a 117% game speed increase at fastest setting lmao stellaris is somewhat of an outlier because it's a 4x and a paradox game so late game gets really stupid, but even in "normal" games like factorio people see a 50% increase
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Jan 5, 2023 23:50
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kliras posted:interesting, not all ccd’s get the 3d cache I'm wondering how will they make them even height? Will they CNC a spot for cache in the heat spreader? Or just ignore the issue and fill it with paste.
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Jan 6, 2023 07:40
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Truga posted:i saw some german dude benchmark his lategame stellaris saves (just let the game run with zero input for 360 days several times on each cpu) when he upgraded from 5800x to 5800x3d and he saw a 117% game speed increase at fastest setting lmao If the 5800x3D wouldnt cost 400€ here in Austria, i would buy it for Stellaris alone.
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Jan 6, 2023 11:26
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AutismVaccine posted:If the 5800x3D wouldnt cost 400€ here in Austria, i would buy it for Stellaris alone. Can't you order it from Mindfactory? Or is it only for Deutschland?
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Jan 6, 2023 12:47
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Ihmemies posted:Can't you order it from Mindfactory? Or is it only for Deutschland? They ship to Germany only. Sad to see the smaller markets get hosed still 
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Jan 6, 2023 13:02
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