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The Lone Badger posted:I think I would simply hire someone to follow me around handing me additional loaded pistols. You've invented the squire
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Jan 6, 2023 01:25
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:It's a good question. My wood experience (lol) is mainly firewood and light logging poo poo so I don't know much about the craft side of it, but I'd assume that you make arrow shafts out of seasoned wood. If you were using single sticks, you could let them dry and debark them once dry fairly easily. I'm sure someone has done some experimental archaeology around this. Right? And if you are doing riven and shaved sticks (like for say chair spindles) the wood will dry faster and you'll have more material for correcting any warping and making sure that your tapering is correct, and I suspect that it would be more stable too. But either of them requires a substantial stockpile of materials because it has to be seasoned. Hell, if you don't used seasoned wood, you risk the arrowheads getting loose as the wood dries (And I've heard youtubers/reconstructionists quote records that arrows would in some cases be stored for loving centuries). As I was walking the dogs I started to hypothesize that it was probably a mix due to the demands placed on coppices. Some are probably from full sticks, pruned from younger growth, and some is probably from riven wood, taken from either end of poles harvested for other purposes (i.e. harvest a trunk to make a pike; the section towards the tip could become an arrow, or depending on the taper, be riven into 2 or 4 to make multiple arrows).
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Jan 6, 2023 01:32
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I would coppice a tree to make some spears.
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Jan 6, 2023 01:58
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The Lone Badger posted:I think I would simply hire someone to follow me around handing me additional loaded pistols. I assume at some point early on it occurred to military planners that having guys dedicated to loading wheellocks or whatever would be a good idea, but since it didn't catch on it obviously wasn't. Why not? Genoese crossbows were basically crew served weapons, with a bowman, a loader, and a pavise wrangler. I don't know how long it takes to winch back a Genoese crossbow, probably longer than an expert arquebusier takes to reload his arquebus. But you wouldn't bother with a shield if you were using a firearm, so it would be much more mobile. I guess two dudes loading and firing their own firearm is better than one guy handing another loaded ones? In prepared defensive situations, was it SOP to stockpile a bunch of loaded muskets? And how does chrome recognize arquebusier but not arquebus? zoux fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 02:37
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I assume resilience. If you have four fusiliers and two of them get shot you still have two fusiliers. If you have two shooters and two loaders and two of then get shot, you might be lucky enough to have one intact shooter/loader pair but you're equally likely to have two shooters or two loaders.
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Jan 6, 2023 02:45
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feedmegin posted:American Civil War cavalry (so without the same transport issues of being on foot) would sometimes carry like 4 pistols/revolvers and a sabre, if I recall correctly. Check out this lad 4 pistols and sabre seem strange for an ACW trooper in any army or theatre. The standard issue for mid-war volunteer Federal Cavalry was 2 pistols, a sabre, and a carbine of the breech-loading variety. Less if you were a confederate trooper who might have to make do with sawed-off smoothbore as times got tough. If you expand cavalry to mounted infantry who effectively were tasked as cavalry units then pistols as primary weapons were even rarer. The only time I have ever heard of 4 pistols as a loadout is from Mosby's guerillas which could barely be called a cavalry unit where men had to bring their own horses and weapons.
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Jan 6, 2023 02:53
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zoux posted:In prepared defensive situations, was it SOP to stockpile a bunch of loaded muskets? In almost all situations, obtaining muskets was trickier than obtaining warm bodies who can hold a musket.
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Jan 6, 2023 03:03
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zoux posted:I assume at some point early on it occurred to military planners that having guys dedicated to loading wheellocks or whatever would be a good idea, but since it didn't catch on it obviously wasn't. Why not? Genoese crossbows were basically crew served weapons, with a bowman, a loader, and a pavise wrangler. I don't know how long it takes to winch back a Genoese crossbow, probably longer than an expert arquebusier takes to reload his arquebus. But you wouldn't bother with a shield if you were using a firearm, so it would be much more mobile. I guess two dudes loading and firing their own firearm is better than one guy handing another loaded ones? In prepared defensive situations, was it SOP to stockpile a bunch of loaded muskets? There are others here more knowledgeable, but that is sort of what they did. Except instead of exchanging muskets, they exchanged dudes. People would fire, then walk to the back and the next rank would fire. Cavalry would do it too, except that was more of a wheeling formation. As others have said the weapons were pretty expensive so its better to just have a dude for every gun. Eventually tactics evolved to favor longer lines with fewer ranks, and eventually the whole rotating guys thing fell out of favour and was replaced with larger volleys. In Asia larger musket type weapons were more popular (usually referred to as jingals) and those would often have multiple people serving them.
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Jan 6, 2023 03:48
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So I've gotten to see some of the arrows from the Mary Rose. And it doesn't look like there was one uniform method for producing shafts. Some appeared to be coppice wood and some were clearly from split timber. However, all of them would have gotten some finishing work. The English preferred both ends of the shaft be tapered. So even coppice wood would have had a draw knife taken to it at some point.
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Jan 6, 2023 04:06
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SerCypher posted:There are others here more knowledgeable, but that is sort of what they did. Except instead of exchanging muskets, they exchanged dudes. Yeah I never thought of it like that but I guess that's exactly what volley fire is
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Jan 6, 2023 04:13
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The Lone Badger posted:I think I would simply hire someone to follow me around handing me additional loaded pistols. What's your benefits package like.
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Jan 6, 2023 05:00
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zoux posted:Yeah I never thought of it like that but I guess that's exactly what volley fire is The Japanese may have used matchlocks in the way you were imagining, at least initially. There are some accounts that say that Oda Nobunaga supposedly had his arquebus armed troops organized as either loaders or shooters, with three weapons per shooter. The men who were the best/most accurate shooters would operate the weapons and the others would take turns loading the other guns. Or it may have been that samurai operated the guns (contrary to popular depictions, samurai loving LOVED guns) and their retainers helped load them for them.
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Jan 6, 2023 05:41
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Thomamelas posted:So I've gotten to see some of the arrows from the Mary Rose. And it doesn't look like there was one uniform method for producing shafts. Some appeared to be coppice wood and some were clearly from split timber. However, all of them would have gotten some finishing work. The English preferred both ends of the shaft be tapered. So even coppice wood would have had a draw knife taken to it at some point. amazing. I appreciate this so much - can you offer any other technical details?
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Jan 6, 2023 05:44
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zoux posted:Yeah I never thought of it like that but I guess that's exactly what volley fire is Consider that three rotating shooters is more flexible than one dedicated shooter and two dedicated loaders, since you can also have them fire together or spread them out to cover more ground if need be.
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Jan 6, 2023 06:13
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CommonShore posted:amazing. I appreciate this so much - can you offer any other technical details? Some of the nock points looked like some one chiseled them out, some were sawn. There was a real lack of uniformity. I saw at least three different woods, and at least one arrow was made from heartwood. The vibe was the intersection of skilled work and lowest bidder work. But that may have been due to age.
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Jan 6, 2023 08:13
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:You can make a wood lathe pretty easily -- check out pole lathes sometime. Definitely something that they could have built back in the day, but of course that doesn't mean they actually did. While lathes are pretty old, going back to the late bronze age for the earliest examples and being pretty widespread across Eurasia by the Warring States Period, bows and arrows date back to the Middle Paleolithic, and today are commonly used by societies that absolutely do not have wood lathes. They didn't even have metal back then! Now as for an entry into a weird part of the history of wood shaft weapons, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wwIIK1M3iI Phanatic posted:You should check out what the Swiss were doing: This pleases me. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I would coppice a tree to make some spears. And they did! It's a very useful technique. Other than the inclusion of potatoes, one of the most noteworthy anachronisms in modern portrayals of medieval Europe is the lack of coppicing/pollarding. I know its a lot of work but it is also quite funny.
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Jan 6, 2023 08:26
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To be honest, between the two knives and three pistols I'm inclined to suspect that this guy was the Civil War equivalent of the fresh young Marine recruit spending his entire paycheck buying all the tacticool poo poo he can just for the aesthetic of the thing and to feel badass. I have a hard time thinking of any realistic Civil War battlefield scenario where you're really gonna need to whip out two chest-holstered knives at some point.
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Jan 6, 2023 11:04
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MikeC posted:4 pistols and sabre seem strange for an ACW trooper in any army or theatre. The standard issue for mid-war volunteer Federal Cavalry was 2 pistols, a sabre, and a carbine of the breech-loading variety. I didn't say it was standard issue. I'm just saying it happened. Soldiers acquiring more gear than regulation isn't exactly unknown.
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Jan 6, 2023 12:19
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While we're posting old style tacticool; here's an eight shot snaplock revolver, supposedly from 1597:
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Jan 6, 2023 13:12
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Tulip posted:Other than the inclusion of potatoes, one of the most noteworthy anachronisms in modern portrayals of medieval Europe is the lack of coppicing/pollarding. I know its a lot of work but it is also quite funny. Pollarding is still pretty common in a lot of European cities but it doesn't seem to have ever hit in the US.
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Jan 6, 2023 14:56
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Speaking of which, in some Finnish cities, if you know where to go, you can notice places with trees that were bollarded 80 years ago that since then have grown new tops. You can notice this from the kink they all have at the same height. Why's that, you wonder? Because they were growing around AA sites (on hill tops) that needed to clear lines of sight around them, so all trees growing on the slopes were trimmed to the hilltop level. The cut tree tops were then used to camouflage the concrete AA bunkers.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:13
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Yeah, it's pretty regular to come across pollarded trees, i just didn't know it was called pollarding until now
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Jan 6, 2023 15:15
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Tulip posted:Other than the inclusion of potatoes, one of the most noteworthy anachronisms in modern portrayals of medieval Europe is the lack of coppicing/pollarding. I know its a lot of work but it is also quite funny. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Pollarding is still pretty common in a lot of European cities but it doesn't seem to have ever hit in the US. IIRC this was an issue during the filming of Gladiator because it actually was made in Europe, and they found it almost impossible to find a forest of trees that weren't coppiced, which was a problem for a film set in the Roman empire.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:42
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Tomn posted:To be honest, between the two knives and three pistols I'm inclined to suspect that this guy was the Civil War equivalent of the fresh young Marine recruit spending his entire paycheck buying all the tacticool poo poo he can just for the aesthetic of the thing and to feel badass. I have a hard time thinking of any realistic Civil War battlefield scenario where you're really gonna need to whip out two chest-holstered knives at some point. You see this a lot with pretty much every era where military portraits were a thing. Somewhere I've got a pic saved of a super young looking Bavarian kid standing on a small pile of French helmets and holding an Enfield in a victory pose. Obviously in a studio (it's got the cloth forest scenery backdrop painting thing) and his uniform is so fresh that it's obvious it's never been worn to a drill field, much less a trench. I've also got a vague recollection of a civil war (confederate maybe?) portrait I saw once where the guy is mean mugging the camera holding two pistols cross-wise across his chest with a rifle across his knees. Full beard, but the face and eyes of a 17 or 18 year old.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:43
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Cyrano4747 posted:You see this a lot with pretty much every era where military portraits were a thing. Somewhere I've got a pic saved of a super young looking Bavarian kid standing on a small pile of French helmets and holding an Enfield in a victory pose. Obviously in a studio (it's got the cloth forest scenery backdrop painting thing) and his uniform is so fresh that it's obvious it's never been worn to a drill field, much less a trench. lol not the one I was thinking of but I did some quick GIS'ing to see what I could find. Man there is an absolute "type" in these pics. Anyways check this one out.  That kid is trying SO hard to look tough.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:47
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MikeC posted:The only time I have ever heard of 4 pistols as a loadout is from Mosby's guerillas which could barely be called a cavalry unit where men had to bring their own horses and weapons. 1861 Tacticool with four pistols:  Edit: Or three pistols and a knife: 
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Jan 6, 2023 16:28
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As long as there have been photographs, there have been dudes holding way too much guns in them.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:30
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Speaking of cav, horses are skittish creatures who are prone to killing themselves in ridiculous fashion even in the best of time. How do you train them to have a mini explosion go off right over their head?
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Jan 6, 2023 16:45
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Cessna posted:1861 Tacticool with four pistols: Please take the picture of me sitting with three guns aimed directly at my balls
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Jan 6, 2023 16:46
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CommonShore posted:Please take the picture of me sitting with three guns aimed directly at my balls That's why they were called "cap my balls" revolvers.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:51
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Defenestrategy posted:Speaking of cav, horses are skittish creatures who are prone to killing themselves in ridiculous fashion even in the best of time. How do you train them to have a mini explosion go off right over their head? Can’t locate it right now, but I saw a YouTube video of somebody training a modern horse to tolerate shooting. Started with rattling a bunch of pots near the horse and praising it for not shying from the noise, then eventually working up to not freaking out when blanks were fired. I assume something similar; get it gradually acclimated to noise nearby until it can handle gunshots.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:57
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zoux posted:As long as there have been photographs, there have been dudes holding way too much guns in them. 
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Jan 6, 2023 17:08
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Oh my god 
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Jan 6, 2023 17:13
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CommonShore posted:Please take the picture of me sitting with three guns aimed directly at my balls (accidentaly fires entire cylinders of three revolvers into my deck & balls with 100% accuracy rate) alright. thats fine. heres what i think happened, [1/82]
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Jan 6, 2023 17:20
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lol
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Jan 6, 2023 17:29
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Defenestrategy posted:Speaking of cav, horses are skittish creatures who are prone to killing themselves in ridiculous fashion even in the best of time. How do you train them to have a mini explosion go off right over their head? very carefully OP
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Jan 6, 2023 17:40
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I’m trying not to die laughing at work holy poo poo
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Jan 6, 2023 17:46
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Brig Gen. Micro Beauregard Mancer, wounded in the hip at Cold Harbor, went on to die of what was called "horse lick".
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Jan 6, 2023 17:49
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Defenestrategy posted:Speaking of cav, horses are skittish creatures who are prone to killing themselves in ridiculous fashion even in the best of time. How do you train them to have a mini explosion go off right over their head? I believe they trained them and got them used to such noises in the process.
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Jan 6, 2023 19:01
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Does the, uh, intactness of the animal matter? Are stalliions less gunshy?
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Jan 6, 2023 19:09
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