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How does everyone feel about used Telsa Model 3s? With or without a warranty. I'm assuming it's a hard no but drat prices are going down pretty quickly making it at least seem appealing.
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Jan 6, 2023 16:33
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:How does everyone feel about used Telsa Model 3s? With or without a warranty. Why do you think the prices are going down? Perhaps a component of that has something to do with them being poo poo build quality with unobtanium parts?
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Jan 6, 2023 17:31
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If it has a build date in the Lean Assembly Tent era I would not buy. Tesla also has a general monopoly on service support and they don't seem to be prioritizing that area of the business, so I wouldn't hold your breath on being able to get consistent, timely repairs at a reasonable cost.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:35
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Motronic posted:Why do you think the prices are going down? Perhaps a component of that has something to do with them being poo poo build quality with unobtanium parts? Supply chain issues are being solved, competitors now have their own EV models, Elon's tweeting, etc. I suppose if I did get one I'd want a pre-purchase inspection but I wonder what mechanic I'd even ask for something like that. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:If it has a build date in the Lean Assembly Tent era I would not buy. Good point. Doing some searching there are quite a few horror stories and those weren't hard to find either.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:42
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Supply chain issues are being solved, competitors now have their own EV models, Elon's tweeting, etc. I suppose if I did get one I'd want a pre-purchase inspection but I wonder what mechanic I'd even ask for something like that. I mean your average mechanic is going to be able to identify use of load-bearing lumber and some of the worse issues. I think powertrain reliability is decent and most mechanics don't know poo poo about any kind of in-vehicle entertainment from a diagnostics perspective beyond what you know, so you'd mostly be looking out for build quality red flags in a PPI. Maybe some other indicators like suspension play, tire wear, etc - but those aren't gonna be any different from ICE vehicles. The mechanic just won't know the root cause. I wouldn't do it but if it's super cheap and you're willing to deal with the known downsides of Tesla customer support and the complete lack of other options there are probably worse ideas?
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Jan 6, 2023 17:48
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:If it has a build date in the Lean Assembly Tent era I would not buy. About that https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42004434/gm-services-teslas/ But yes Tesla is absolutely poo poo and monopolizes the vast majority of the repairs and parts availability is still poo poo
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Jan 6, 2023 18:40
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I mean your average mechanic is going to be able to identify use of load-bearing lumber and some of the worse issues. I think powertrain reliability is decent and most mechanics don't know poo poo about any kind of in-vehicle entertainment from a diagnostics perspective beyond what you know, so you'd mostly be looking out for build quality red flags in a PPI. Maybe some other indicators like suspension play, tire wear, etc - but those aren't gonna be any different from ICE vehicles. The mechanic just won't know the root cause. Gotcha, It does seem that things eventually can get fixed by Telsa provided you are willing to keep going to their service centers and being persistent. I kind of wonder what the used Telsa market will be like in a few years given all these issues. YMMV.
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Jan 6, 2023 19:14
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:It does seem that things eventually can get fixed by Telsa provided you are willing to keep going to their service centers and being persistent. If you've already rationalized this purchase why are you asking here?
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Jan 6, 2023 19:16
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Motronic posted:If you've already rationalized this purchase why are you asking here? I just did some light reading, this forum and others. And this is my conclusion? 
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Jan 6, 2023 19:21
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I just did some light reading, this forum and others. And this is my conclusion? What I took from that was you are stating that this is an acceptable thing. Do you think that's an acceptable thing? To be locked into manufacturer designated service centers because nobody else can get the parts and those service centers are so bad you have to "be persistent"? I think the average person would consider that to be a deal killer.
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Jan 6, 2023 19:24
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Well elon tweeted that things are going to get better so
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Jan 6, 2023 19:53
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Infinotize posted:Well elon tweeted that things are going to get better so Does it count if we can't read them because Twitter's infrastructure is on fire?
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Jan 6, 2023 19:56
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in a well actually posted:About that https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a42004434/gm-services-teslas/ about that: that article posted:Reuss did not specify what sorts of maintenance or repairs GM dealerships have been performing on Tesla vehicles. It's likely the service items are ones that don't require any software-related intervention to complete, like brake jobs, tire swaps, suspension repair, lighting replacement, and inspections. We've reached out to the company for more details.
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Jan 6, 2023 19:57
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:about that: So pretty much the same thing that any shop should be able to do. If that's the case you should be able to take them almost anywhere.
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Jan 6, 2023 20:32
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Found out today that my brake line blew. They fix them in pairs, and parts + labor will be $550 with a $50 discount I have with them. $500? gently caress, I can handle that. I’m going to do some financial soul searching before I decide what I want to do. If I get an offer close to $3k for my car again, I might take it. But after the helpful conversation here, I understand there isn’t the urgent need to get out of my Volvo. Maintenance/consumables and repairs are different things. But y’all have me interested in a Prius, so I’m going to do some reading on them, too.
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Jan 6, 2023 21:59
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a $500 repair hardly even registers on the scale of repairs. getting out of a shop for under 4 figures for non-routine stuff is a rare and blessed event. i understand the desire for a new(er) car but yeah fix and drive the volvo for a while longer and save up for a bigger budget or else you'll soon be back where you started but with a different car with different age-related problems
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Jan 6, 2023 22:20
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It is good that they replaced both sides. I honestly would have had them do all 4 just for peace of mind, but they probably would have told you if the others looked rotted out.
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Jan 6, 2023 22:59
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wesleywillis posted:So pretty much the same thing that any shop should be able to do. A third party can't repair anything that is hooked up to a control module, which is most of what can go wrong in expensive ways. The stuff that you can get done is dumb routine wear items. Assuming parts are available.
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Jan 7, 2023 00:24
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KillHour posted:It is good that they replaced both sides. I honestly would have had them do all 4 just for peace of mind, but they probably would have told you if the others looked rotted out. Yeah, my guy knows I like to get my money’s worth out of the man hours and also like to keep ahead of maintenance and repairs. But he also knows I don’t want to burn money when it’s not necessary. Believe it or not, I use the local Volvo dealership. With the age of my car, they’re always significantly cheaper than other European car shops who say the parts are crazy expensive.
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Jan 7, 2023 00:41
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I go to the dealership for my cars too. I know they're only going to gently caress me a little (for most things) but also not lie to my face (usually). Then again, I don't have what most people would consider normal cars, so that plays a part in it.
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Jan 7, 2023 01:07
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Stories about body shops refusing to work on teslas because of the monthslong delays for panels are not uncommon. Also they’ve killed a few PDR techs due to off not actually being off.
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Jan 7, 2023 01:54
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thoughts on a salvage title tesla?
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Jan 7, 2023 01:56
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Absolutely not.
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Jan 7, 2023 01:59
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Only if stuffing motors in something else
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Jan 7, 2023 02:30
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Upgrade posted:thoughts on a salvage title tesla? There is a guy on YouTube who makes a living from churning out salvage Teslas, Rich Rebuilds maybe?. I think it's a legitimately profitable business now, but in the beginning, it was a great schadenfreude to watch somebody else set their money on fire. So definitely go for it, just make sure to record everything for posterity.
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Jan 7, 2023 05:02
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The only reason I'm not joking about chopping a salvage Tesla for spare part profit is because they plumb pulled a GM in 4Q 2022 and the news are selling for salvage rates.
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Jan 7, 2023 05:14
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You all talked some sense into me. That, coupled with the repair job on my car being an unexpectedly low cost, I don' t feel any sense of urgency about a new-to-me car. I've not ruled out upgrading, but the time frame on that is a hell of a lot less urgent. I'm hopeful I can keep using my Volvo as long as I like, and only change cars if an excellent deal pops up. That said, I've got three questions I'd hope to get answered for any future searching I may do. I'm also not discounting that anything being seriously considered would get a pre-inspection and Car-Fax'd - - Ford Escapes and Fusions from the 2010-2016 - Are those worth a drat? Or are they just as fuckery prone as the Focus/Fiestas you all told me about? They appear plentiful in the price range I was checking out with clean titles, single owners, no crash history, and not being fleet vehicles. - Hybrids other than the Prius - I've seen some Ford C-Max's, Honda Civic CVT Hybrid, and others. Are they on the same level as the Prius? Or should the Prius be the only used Hybrid worth checking out in those particular years? - Micro and Sub-Compact Cars - Like the Chevy Spark, Fiat 500, Mini Coopers, and Smart Cars - Are any of them worth a poo poo? Or just best to disregard? Again, you've all been incredibly helpful and likely saved me hastily spending squirreled away cash. For the time being, I'm not buying. But with all the research I've done recently, knowing the answers from educated goons on these questions would be helpful.
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Jan 7, 2023 15:11
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I think the real answer to these questions is this: you don't have the budget to care about the answers. If you find a reasonably intact example of any of these with no sus poo poo on the carfax that's close enough to test drive and get it inspected and doesn't stink like someone died in it and is in your budget, it's going to be a good day. Except for smart cars which are death traps.
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Jan 8, 2023 00:23
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The Oldest Man posted:I think the real answer to these questions is this: you don't have the budget to care about the answers. If you find a reasonably intact example of any of these with no sus poo poo on the carfax that's close enough to test drive and get it inspected and doesn't stink like someone died in it and is in your budget, it's going to be a good day. If I’m not in desperation mode and making a purchase farther down the line, my budget is greater. Only asking about these cars because they come up a lot. I was truly expecting a loving hell of a worse ride from the auto repair shop, and will be content in my twenty year old car for however longer it gives me without making GBS threads gear out of its tailpipe.
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Jan 8, 2023 00:31
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Captain Log posted:- Ford Escapes and Fusions from the 2010-2016 - Are those worth a drat? Or are they just as fuckery prone as the Focus/Fiestas you all told me about? They appear plentiful in the price range I was checking out with clean titles, single owners, no crash history, and not being fleet vehicles. It's specifically that dual clutch powershift transmission, so avoid those. My mom has an Escape and I used to rent Fusions all the time when I traveled for work and they're totally fine cars AFAICT. I also own a 2017 Focus, but it's the RS so it shares basically nothing in common with the normal ones except interior bits.
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Jan 8, 2023 00:34
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i had a fusion hybrid of that generation as a long-term rental several years back, it was actually pretty nice in the top titanium trim and for a car that size to easily get 40+ mpg is drat impressive, seems like a potential sleeper budget option i can't speak to the long term reliability of it though
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Jan 8, 2023 06:11
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YMMV with my opinions, I have driven none of these things to any great degree and am mostly just a dweeb that goes on about cars too much:Captain Log posted:- Ford Escapes and Fusions from the 2010-2016 - Are those worth a drat? Or are they just as fuckery prone as the Focus/Fiestas you all told me about? They appear plentiful in the price range I was checking out with clean titles, single owners, no crash history, and not being fleet vehicles. The Escape is different pre and post 2013. Pre is a sort of fake-ish offroady box thing, I would say basically reliable but not all that robust - you can pretty much watch them dropping off the road in real time at the moment, should be cheap to run for the next few years as I doubt there's a junkyard on the continent that doesn't have a dozen of the things fresh every week. The post 2013 is basically a Focus on stilts, except they didn't put the crap DCT in there (except in Europe, where it's the Kuga, maybe?) but stuck with the same trans used in the old Escape. I have known several people with them and they were all basically faultless mechanically but all but one had electrical gremlins to some degree, on the annoying end of the scale more so than really severe. "My battery inexplicably drained over the course of a work shift" or "rear defroster only works when it's below freezing" kind of thing. Of course, if you have mobility issues and your car sits for a while that's liable to be more of a problem than it is if you have a work parking lot full of jumper cables... The Fusion switches generations at the same time, same principles apply, more or less, except that the older ones seem more on the reliable side. IIRC there is some transmission programming weirdness on the 2010-2012s but nothing major. Post 2013 they're basically the euro Mondeo and are pretty well-behaved except for some lingering issues on the early turbo engined ones (some kind of cooling system design fault, I think?), probably mostly filtered out by now though. The problem with buying a Fusion is not really the car but the average previous owners, in common with most American sedans - ie old people or rental fleets, then dirtbags  On balance probably fine if you can intercept one before the old-to-dirtbag transition, ??? if you get one after. Same problem with buying a Malibu or Impala - they will run reasonably well for a long time given even a small amount of care and attention, but usually won't get it, in which event they will run very badly for way longer than you'd expect, lowering everyone's property values the whole time.quote:- Hybrids other than the Prius - I've seen some Ford C-Max's, Honda Civic CVT Hybrid, and others. Are they on the same level as the Prius? Or should the Prius be the only used Hybrid worth checking out in those particular years? The older Ford hybrids licensed Toyota's system as I recall and should have similar issues (ie, lack of them). Honda used their own system until I want to say the mid 2010s which was more of a battery booster arrangement and worked...less well, I remember car shopping in 2016 or so and they could be had for less than a regular Civic but would invariably have dead batteries. Replacing batteries is not inherently, necessarily a problem, but I don't know to what extent it's specifically a problem with the Civics; they may have been crap enough that noone really bothered, it may be doable for a few hundred dollars now, don't know. Newer Honda hybrids should be fine, they seemed to sort of give up on them for a while though so probably won't see too many of them. There is nothing in principle all that special about the Prius versus other Toyota hybrids except that it's explicitly meant to Be A Hybrid - so, better aerodynamics, more 'efficient' interior, looks a bit weird etc. If you get a Corolla or Camry hybrid you're getting the same powertrain in 'normal car' shape, more or less, which has upsides and downsides (looks less weird, a little less fuel efficient, bit compromised on cargo space to squeeze all the bits in, basically). quote:- Micro and Sub-Compact Cars - Like the Chevy Spark, Fiat 500, Mini Coopers, and Smart Cars - Are any of them worth a poo poo? Or just best to disregard? Smarts are good at one thing which is being extremely short. They aren't as fuel efficient as they seem like they should be and the semi-auto gearboxes are awful. If you desperately need a short car, sure. You probably don't though and the compromises aren't worth it unless you live somewhere 'designed' before...1700, maybe? Here in BC there seems to be at least one in every trailer park in the province, driven from trailer to mailbox to supermarket and back twice a week but in any case never more than five minutes from home. I suppose they're fine for that, though at a certain point you wonder why you'd bother. Modern Minis: German mechanicals built in England. No, please, don't do this to yourself. (tbf I think the more recent ones are supposed to be OK, in tune with BMW in general getting over their mid 2010s mechanical malaise, but you'll pay a large image tax for everything; older ones are a trifecta of unreliable, hard to work on and hard to get parts for) Fiat 500: It's a Fiat, which is to say that small things will go wrong with it constantly. This is fine if you live in Europe because parts cost nothing, it'll have the 1.2 engine from about 1982 and your local garage will know where to kick it to make it work again. North America, no, it'll just be a pain in your leg braces. Spark: The post-2015 ones are...kinda decent, actually? Cheap, basic, reasonably powerful and engaging to drive, just enough tech to keep you happy but not enough for much to go wrong. Naturally GM stopped making them once people started to realize they were any good. Have had a few as rentals and liked them for what they are, if I was buying a tinycar this would be my pick. Or a Micra, but I don't think they sold those in the US?
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Jan 8, 2023 06:13
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Guinness posted:i had a fusion hybrid of that generation as a long-term rental several years back, it was actually pretty nice in the top titanium trim Yeah, I'm currently in a 2018 Fusion Hybrid and I don't have any complaints about it. Haven't even had it a year, though, so who knows what the future holds.
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Jan 8, 2023 07:41
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Captain Log posted:- Ford Escapes and Fusions from the 2010-2016 - Are those worth a drat? Or are they just as fuckery prone as the Focus/Fiestas you all told me about? They appear plentiful in the price range I was checking out with clean titles, single owners, no crash history, and not being fleet vehicles. As mentioned repeatedly - bland but probably perfectly fine transportation. The problematic transmission was only used in the US in the Fiesta, the Focus, and the Ecosport. The Escape and Fusion stuck with regular Ford automatics, which are typically reliable if maintained and not abused. quote:- Micro and Sub-Compact Cars - Like the Chevy Spark, Fiat 500, Mini Coopers, and Smart Cars - Are any of them worth a poo poo? Or just best to disregard? I'm again assuming you're in the US here, because the answer is wildly different in much of the world than it is here: unless there is a specific reason you want a subcompact, there is no reason to buy one over an equivalently priced compact. The Fiat, Mini, and Smart are all excessively complicated cars, and the Smart and the Spark are both heaps of poo poo. At least the Fiat and Mini can be had in trims that are a riot to drive, but you aren't buying a 500 Abarth or a Cooper S because you're trying to keep ownership costs low. The only subcompacts that I would consider in your shoes are the Mazda2 and the Honda Fit, with a considerable preference for the Fit. The Mazda2 is actually a platform-mate of the Fiesta but Mazda somewhat wisely decided not to put the Powershift in it, so the automatic in the Mazda2 isn't defective. But it's an older four-speed box that sucks the life out of the car. The reality is that in the US, we do not have the taxation or parking pressures that make a Fit cheaper to buy or own than a Civic, and the Civic is the better car by any definition.
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Jan 8, 2023 09:04
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Thank you all for the very well put responses. Seriously, those posts dropped some knowledge on me and scratched out some various models I see frequently in my searches. Oh, I'm in Portland, Oregon for what it's worth. Which seems to give us a greater amount of Hybrids and electrics than some other places in the US. I bring up the Escape and Fusion for one reason - Back when my legs worked, I had a job for a while where I was all over America, doing 180 overnights for a job in a ten month period at one point. This was the early teens, and I was in a rental in every city driving to hell and back. The Ford Fusion and especially the Ford Escape were my preferred rentals, even when they tried to upgrade me to "luxury" options. They just worked without being a pain in the rear end to drive, which is more than I can say for some of the other cars I drove. I'm looking at you, Dodge Charger in loving Los Angeles. I'm 5'11 and drive with braces that immobilize my ankles. Mid-sized SUVs are perfect, because I don't have to get "down" when I get in and out of the driver's seat. Does that make any sense? Our main family car is a '13 Hyundai Tucson, and it's perfect for my mobility. I can drive anything without a clutch, it's just a physical convenience thing. One more question about the Ford Escape. I keep specifically running into the 2013 Escape. Is that year when stuff switched over, or the last year with the older components? Edit : Also, in my searches I'm automatically excluding fleet and rental cars, along with anything with a reported accident history and rebuilt titles. I'm keeping it to personal use vehicles with a clean background. But with my Volvo coming out of the shop early next week for about $500, my car search may very well just have been an exercise in research. I'll probably see how much more I can get out of it, since my car isn't vital for me getting to and from a job or anything. Captain Log fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 13:53
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Do not buy Year 1 Ford product and think long and hard about buying Year 1 anyone else product. That means the MY 2013 Escape.
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Jan 8, 2023 23:04
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Do not buy Year 1 Ford product and think long and hard about buying Year 1 anyone else product. That means the MY 2013 Escape.  Appreciate it. I’d never buy a year one thing outside of a video game console, but I wasn’t totally sure if that was what was being said about the 13 models.
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Jan 8, 2023 23:13
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I really need to get a car, and I want to do it pretty much ASAP. I don't have an actual deadline or anything, but I have hit the point where I've decided I absolutely need my own car. I'm kind of targeting $20k, have fair/good credit depending on which bureau you're looking at, and can have one of my parents co-sign for me (with their god-tier credit scores), so I think financing should be doable. Is getting an auto-loan through my bank (technically credit union) better than other options? Is getting pre-owned from a dealership a positive or negative thing? Are any of the online options like Carvana worth paying attention to? Should I check the car rental companies since they tend to sell after a while? It's been years since I bought a car, and am mostly interested in a sedan that can handle freeway speeds uphill, like preferably be able to accelerate from 65 up while going up a decent incline. I'm thinking Sentra or Elantra or something around that tier, but am definitely open to suggestions. Sorry if that's all over the place, but, like I said, it's been years since I bought a car and am feeling a sense of urgency now. Thanks!
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Jan 9, 2023 03:31
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Sorry if that's all over the place Read the OP.
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Jan 9, 2023 03:38
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Motronic posted:Read the OP. I did, but I suppose I should've used the template. Proposed Budget: around $20k New or Used: unsure Body Style: (e.g. 2 door? 4 door? Compact/Midsize/Fullsize Sedan? Truck? SUV?) Probably midsize sedan How will you be using the car?: Mostly in-town use with occasional 100-200 mile days on Interstate 5. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?) I mostly would like decent Bluetooth What aspects are most important to you? (e.g. reliability, cost of ownership/maintenance, import/domestic, MPG, size, style) I want something reliable to last me a couple years before I trade up. I-5 south of me is kind of hilly/mountainous, so something with enough power to handle freeway speeds on an uphill grade would be nice.
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Jan 9, 2023 03:44
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