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It's shorter, the engines are less complicated, and all of the cards are mostly used to tuck under other cards to act as raw ore or an alien device.
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Jan 5, 2023 20:49
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When the deck did get too big to be able to find the engine pieces you needed reliably, they bolted on a mechanic so that you could search for the piece you needed, and future expansions stopped adding to that bloated card pool.
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Jan 5, 2023 20:54
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I too am a TM liker. I like the big stack of cards and finding something new every game. I play with drafting only and never feel like there's no good play possible. A couple of times I pivoted to a completely different strategy mid-game and still managed to win or come very close. Also I just like games where there's a lot of things going on and a million different score tracks and resources. Shoot that Venus poo poo straight into my veins while I'm trying to pass democratic reform and juggle 10 moon colonies at the same time. I don't care if it's not in the top 10 best optimized and balanced games ever, it's just fun.
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Jan 5, 2023 20:55
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what’s the tallest deck for a single game you’ve ever encountered? played a 4p ascension at a monthly like seven years ago that I think was the first eight expansions sleeved, deck was split into three piles otherwise it would have for sure fallen over but would have been about just under a meter high in one piece. It was regular vp pool so the game took an hour which probably doesn’t justify the effort the guy took to set up and shuffle. fun novelty but ultimately pretty dumb because it diluted the card pool hard
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Jan 5, 2023 21:26
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I've long held the belief that either a tiered card pool or a market row would make TfM a less tedious game to play, and that drafting is the worst possible solution (turning a slow random game into a long slow semi-random game). Ark Nova basically proved my point by being TfM with a market row and playing better in every way. Doesn't even need drafting.
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Jan 5, 2023 21:30
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medchem posted:Speaking of Race for the Galaxy, that has one deck that's not tiered, but in that game, it's not that much of an issue. Aside from overlap in design, there’s a lot of inherent card draw and you can dig deeper for engine parts, and with the expansion you can straight up search for the key card you want and put it in hand.
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Jan 5, 2023 21:36
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The shorter is a huge part of rftg. Sometimes your opponent does just draw the nuts and you lose, which is fine in a 20 minute game and completely unacceptable in a 3 hour game.
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Jan 5, 2023 21:39
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Right now, it's easier for me to get people to play Terraforming Mars than Race for the Galaxy. RFG has a lot more skill to it, so people who've played it a lot more often tend to kick the asses of people who've only played it a few times. Terraforming Mars ends up hitting the table a lot because it feels like everyone has a shot at winning, so people who've barely played it don't end up frustrated. I've been in sweaty boardgaming playgroups in the past that would hate a game like Terraforming Mars, but right now my group is mostly very casual and no one has interest in playing a skill first competitive board game.
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Jan 5, 2023 21:45
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I am a big fan of Ark Nova, especially as an evolution of the concepts seen in TfM. Small hand size, currency is only used for buildings and animal plays, caps on scoring opportunities, and all scoring advances the game to an end state.
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Jan 5, 2023 22:10
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I really liked Ares Expedition, and really hard bounced off of TM original. Pretty much for the same reasons everyone is complaining about (spending hours trying to find something usable, cobbling uninteresting table scraps together in the meantime). Ares however was much faster, more satisfying and the snowballing effect made it much more interesting trying to determine when to "switch on" your engine vs build it out just a little bit more before "oh poo poo they just jumped us 5 heat and the heat scoring is off the table for my next turn".
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Jan 5, 2023 22:24
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Chainclaw posted:Right now, it's easier for me to get people to play Terraforming Mars than Race for the Galaxy. RFG has a lot more skill to it, so people who've played it a lot more often tend to kick the asses of people who've only played it a few times. This is just bs tbh. TM has an online version with ELO and tournaments and if it was as random as some of you say you wouldn't see the same players consistently doing well in tourneys and ELO ratings in the 2200s. Skill is more important than luck in TM.
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Jan 5, 2023 23:18
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A game having a lot of luck doesn't negate the ability to get good at it, nor does it mean that luck can't be a determining factor among those skilled players. The broader gaming hobby people that love TfM and play 4-5 hour games of it are not there to play competitively.
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Jan 5, 2023 23:21
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Chainclaw posted:Right now, it's easier for me to get people to play Terraforming Mars than Race for the Galaxy. RFG has a lot more skill to it, so people who've played it a lot more often tend to kick the asses of people who've only played it a few times. I'm not convinced that this is actually true, but people definitely think that it is. The game flow of TfM is more obviously comprehensible than RftG but both games rely on the same kind of game knowledge, and TfM with drafting gives you a lot of leeway to mess with other players via card selection. As someone who's played both games a lot I'd say that TfM gives a skilled player more chances to tough out a weaker initial game state and end up winning anyway than RftG does. Though TM also has significantly more variability in terms of starting conditions and might have fewer options to deal with a really bad initial setup, depending on your exact combination of cards, corporation, etc.
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Jan 5, 2023 23:24
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Orange Devil posted:This is just bs tbh. TM has an online version with ELO and tournaments and if it was as random as some of you say you wouldn't see the same players consistently doing well in tourneys and ELO ratings in the 2200s. Skill has an effect, but the randomness is enough that you can feel like you have a chance against someone way better than you, so it's easy to want to play than a more focused experience. There are other games, like Puerto Rico, where a previous group I played with had one player who had basically "solved" it so the same person won literally every single time we played, which killed any interest in anyone else playing. RabidWeasel posted:I'm not convinced that this is actually true, but people definitely think that it is. The game flow of TfM is more obviously comprehensible than RftG but both games rely on the same kind of game knowledge, and TfM with drafting gives you a lot of leeway to mess with other players via card selection. As someone who's played both games a lot I'd say that TfM gives a skilled player more chances to tough out a weaker initial game state and end up winning anyway than RftG does. Though TM also has significantly more variability in terms of starting conditions and might have fewer options to deal with a really bad initial setup, depending on your exact combination of cards, corporation, etc. I play with drafting when I play on my phone, but when I play in person we skip drafting. With this group, I've probably played TfM on my phone a few hundred times, it was my go-to time killer for a while. The other people have played maybe 5 times total. When we play, it doesn't feel like I'm going to blow out win, but yeah I do have a higher chance of winning having played much more. Chainclaw fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 23:27
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medchem posted:Speaking of Race for the Galaxy, that has one deck that's not tiered, but in that game, it's not that much of an issue. The conversion rate is much more unfavourable in TfM. Card draw is still useful but that's because it's a gamble on finding a good card, not because getting 2% of the cost of a Jovian card is a meaningful difference.
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Jan 6, 2023 01:33
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MizuZero posted:what’s the tallest deck for a single game you’ve ever encountered? played a 4p ascension at a monthly like seven years ago that I think was the first eight expansions sleeved, deck was split into three piles otherwise it would have for sure fallen over but would have been about just under a meter high in one piece. It was regular vp pool so the game took an hour which probably doesn’t justify the effort the guy took to set up and shuffle. fun novelty but ultimately pretty dumb because it diluted the card pool hard That's insane. I'm guesstimating, but unsleeved Wingspan with all expansions has to be close to a foot. My organizer has four 'shoes' that are almost 3" tall IIRC and each of them is almost full. Adding sleeves would put another 2-3 inches on that, I guess? I don't really shuffle my Wingspan cards a lot, just keep them in used (face-up) and unused (face-down) blocks. When everything is face-up, I take the blocks, break them up to make new blocks (like each new block has 25% of each old block), and then hand-over-hand shuffle. Hopefully that'll keep the cards alive longer because there's no way I'm sleeving that freaking game.
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Jan 6, 2023 01:39
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Millennium Blades with all the expansions has the biggest decks in gaming, particularly without the rule sperating core and expansion boosters lol.
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Jan 6, 2023 02:37
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Millennium Blades with all the expansions has the biggest decks in gaming, particularly without the rule sperating core and expansion boosters lol. How is that in the year of our lord 2023?
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Jan 6, 2023 02:40
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Didn't someone bring a 2,000 card deck to a yugioh tournament once?
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Jan 6, 2023 03:04
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Millennium Blades with all the expansions has the biggest decks in gaming, particularly without the rule sperating core and expansion boosters lol. ...but you're not supposed to use all the cards, you're supposed to just mix a handful of mini-boosters into the core deck, different every game?
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Jan 6, 2023 10:51
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Chainclaw posted:Didn't someone bring a 2,000 card deck to a yugioh tournament once? Yeah, the photos are pretty funny
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Jan 6, 2023 10:53
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Glazius posted:...but you're not supposed to use all the cards, you're supposed to just mix a handful of mini-boosters into the core deck, different every game? Yes correct. They've upped the number of sets by 1 of each type in the expansions.
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Jan 6, 2023 11:03
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Glazius posted:...but you're not supposed to use all the cards, you're supposed to just mix a handful of mini-boosters into the core deck, different every game? The core set + 12 booster sets is about 260 cards under the first edition rules where they’re all shuffled together. That’s an enormous stack, especially when sleeved, like 4.5 magics! The only bigger deck I’ve seen is the adventure deck in Talisman with all expansions when I was a kid. I think that was about 500-600 cards?
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Jan 6, 2023 15:20
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Orange Devil posted:This is just bs tbh. TM has an online version with ELO and tournaments and if it was as random as some of you say you wouldn't see the same players consistently doing well in tourneys and ELO ratings in the 2200s. Terra Mystica doesn't have that much randomness. For Terraforming Mars a lot of the skill of the game is knowing the contents of that 300 card deck. If you can keep track of that deck, what's in it and what's not then you'll be much better than someone who doesn't. It's one of those ones where if everyone is at the same level it's fine, but if someone knows the game much better than the other players they can dominate.. You can be good at games with a lot of randomness, like Cribbage, that doesn't change the fact it's very random and the primary skill is knowing what 'could' happen. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 17:57
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Chainclaw posted:Didn't someone bring a 2,000 card deck to a yugioh tournament once? There's a reason MTG has rules about how you have to be able to physically shuffle your deck in a timely fashion
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Jan 6, 2023 20:57
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Stickman posted:The core set + 12 booster sets is about 260 cards under the first edition rules where they’re all shuffled together. That’s an enormous stack, especially when sleeved, like 4.5 magics! Was very glad when they changed the rule to have two separate decks, one for core cards and one for booster cards, cause goddamn it was unwieldly as hell
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Jan 6, 2023 21:35
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Not sure where else to ask but I'd like a board game recommendation. What board game is like, Sorry! or other kind of games that are more plastic doodads to manipulate, maybe Milton Bradley kind of games? I'm trying to come up with a board game the other half might like. She doesn't like heavy rules, she doesn't like games with huge amounts of cards outside of party games, and she likes fae/scifi/fantasy stuff, often reads lewd supernatural books (urban fantasy?), sailor moon, cats, or other "cottagecore" cute things, and such I'm trying to come up with a birthday gift for her (in a few+ months) and I'm hoping we can find a game she'll like, and that'll get her foot in the door to playing more board games (she has a few already, including a sailor moon trivia thing I got her), but if it doesn't then oh well, at least it'll be a thoughtful gift. I like to get these months in advance, I don't like missing deadlines. I have some ideas already like: Fairy Lights Enchanted Plumes Mountains out of Molehills Anything Dr who related Anything firefly related (not deck building) Wonder book Boop. Lost Ones So any more suggestions would be helpful, doesn't have to match the theme of the ideas as long as it is related to her interests above
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Jan 6, 2023 21:52
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GreenBuckanneer posted:Not sure where else to ask but I'd like a board game recommendation. Junk Art is literally this. It’s a dexterity game about stacking wood/plastic pieces with a large variety of different games in the box. It’s always a hit IME.
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Jan 6, 2023 21:54
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Macromicro crime city! It's co operative, has maybe a paragraph of rules and has adorable little murders happening all over the place. What Next? is also a fun and light choose your own adventure type game with lots of tactile bits and dexterity challenges to progress through different paths of stories.
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Jan 6, 2023 21:55
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There is a Firefly board game, though it might be a little heavy for someone who's a board game novice. I'm not sure how many cards are too many; there are some decks that come with the game but most of them are small (25-30 cards IIRC) telling you what you can buy/who you can hire/etc at a given planet. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/138161/firefly-game
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Jan 6, 2023 22:34
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GreenBuckanneer posted:So any more suggestions would be helpful, doesn't have to match the theme of the ideas as long as it is related to her interests above How about Canosa, Onitama, or Relics of Rajavihara?
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Jan 6, 2023 23:01
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MikeCrotch posted:There's a reason MTG has rules about how you have to be able to physically shuffle your deck in a timely fashion I'm pretty sure the 2000 card yugioh deck was made expressly to point out there was no limit. I think there is one now It's a shame there's no realistic way to play battle of wits in paper
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Jan 7, 2023 02:07
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ilmucche posted:It's a shame there's no realistic way to play battle of wits in paper People play battle of wits in paper all the time. I mean, back when really huge events were a thing, there’d be at least one or two people playing at each major Modern event, at least.
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Jan 7, 2023 04:32
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MizuZero posted:what’s the tallest deck for a single game you’ve ever encountered? played a 4p ascension at a monthly like seven years ago that I think was the first eight expansions sleeved, deck was split into three piles otherwise it would have for sure fallen over but would have been about just under a meter high in one piece. It was regular vp pool so the game took an hour which probably doesn’t justify the effort the guy took to set up and shuffle. fun novelty but ultimately pretty dumb because it diluted the card pool hard i've mentioned it before but we're playing TFM on TTS these with a 1500 card project deck it's degenerate as hell but those latenight teets sessions aren't about serious gameplay, they're chatting while rolling the dice on whether you get the wacky new combo we haven't seen before. (every time I see the 77-cost 'draw a new corp and a new prelude from several options' i have to play it even though it ends up being awful, now that's a good steel dump)
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Jan 7, 2023 12:27
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CellBlock posted:People play battle of wits in paper all the time. How do they get around the shuffling issue? It takes ages to properly shuffle a 220+ card deck
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Jan 7, 2023 13:22
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I would guess they improperly shuffle them.
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Jan 7, 2023 13:40
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ilmucche posted:How do they get around the shuffling issue? It takes ages to properly shuffle a 220+ card deck You basically have to practice shuffling to make sure you can do it. There are people who've avoided the deck because they couldn't manage it. It's not the only case like that either - there have been decks in the past (Golos Field of the Dead being one off the top of my head) where there's so much deck & token manipulation that you need to practice being able to make game actions quickly to avoid draws or slow play warnings.
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Jan 7, 2023 13:42
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MikeCrotch posted:You basically have to practice shuffling to make sure you can do it. There are people who've avoided the deck because they couldn't manage it. How long does it take to shuffle a 220+ card pile though, surely there's no one doing that without breaking it into multiple piles.
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Jan 7, 2023 14:22
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It only takes 12 riffle shuffles to randomize a 250 card deck, and if you have big enough hands to hold your two halves comfortably then it's pretty quick. I'd recommend not double-sleeving.
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Jan 7, 2023 14:22
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just go bareback 
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