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anatomi posted:Unsurprisingly, this democratic tool has never been utilized. Last time they let peoples vote decide anything the people choose the wrong answer (Nej till Euro). Can't risk that again. Better make it illegal to be a Kurd to appease a maniac in Ankara.
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Jan 5, 2023 11:53
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anatomi posted:Oh gently caress, yeah, I think you're right. Letting Erdogan dictate our constitutional laws, jfc The best part is they're doing it to get into NATO, which is 100% useless at this point.
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Jan 5, 2023 15:15
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But nobody could have predicted that!  Also, nobody could have predicted this: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/ssi-corona-rs-virus-og-influenza-giver-betydelig-overdoedelighed-blandt-saarbare Guess we're just gonna let it happen.
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Jan 5, 2023 19:07
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evil_bunnY posted:I remember so many people being absolutely sure grand sweden would never stoop to anything like that or ever compromise its autonomy. lol. lmao. it's going to more closely align sweden with the US geopolitically, which appears to be a major strategic priority which cannot be openly discussed for some reason. this opens career path for security officials and some politicians, and the swedish arms industry will presumably get some love as well. i won't say 'i told you so' because i honestly didn't see them making you jump through quite this many hoops to even join, but this sort of thing is a big part of why NATO sucks
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Jan 5, 2023 23:21
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V. Illych L. posted:i won't say 'i told you so' because i honestly didn't see them making you jump through quite this many hoops to even join, but this sort of thing is a big part of why NATO sucks Also the whole sponsoring far-right terrorism throughout the Cold War thing. And the having literal nazis as commanders thing. Couple wars.
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Jan 6, 2023 00:02
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This law has been talked about since 2018 or something. I'm sure the PR is useful for fluffing Erdogan in the backrooms though.
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Jan 6, 2023 01:24
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I'm pretty sure that this far predates the Erdrogan issue. He is only using this vaguely related law for political capital, since he bound up his own prestige in making demands from Sweden that were literally impossible to comply with.
Feliday Melody fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 08:27
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SplitSoul posted:But nobody could have predicted that!
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Jan 6, 2023 16:30
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"Guess we're just gonna let it happen." has been the slogan through the entire pandemic. The goal was always only to "flatten the curve", and then just live with having covid hanging around forever once it became endemic. I think this was a great test run for climate change, we're absolutely not going to handle that either.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:38
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There are just too many old people sucking precious tax money with their pensions and poo poo, and not enough working class young people paying taxes to compensate for it. Sometimes you just need a good pruning of the population, even better when you can blame it on an "oopsie woopsie we're so sowwy we made a mistake and your useless tax-sucking grandma die in the pandemic, I guess now we have more money to hand out to our corporate friends, so it's a win/win situation."
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Jan 6, 2023 17:40
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Well. Hyperbole aside and not counting climate change, one of the biggest problems facing Denmark for the next 20-30 years is the demographic prospects. There is going be be a substantially larger proportion of people outside the workforce (young and old) and the olds are going to be quite a bit more expensive, among other reasons simply because they are going to live longer. Otoh, if you’re a young person, it’s a great time to get an interesting job. Fortunately, there are very simple solutions to the recruitment and health cost problems: 1) allow more immigration, since Denmark is still one of the more attractive nations to immigrate to. 2) increase taxes (individual an corporate both thank you) so the increase in health and childcare expenses is offset by an increase in revenue. I’m sure our wonderful politicians will get right on that. It’s not like they all ran on anti-immigration campaigns and neoliberal tax cuts. Oh, I see. Yeah, we’re hosed. The only thing that can “””””save””””” us is apparently slashing higher education, despite that being the one thing we’ve had going for us for quite a while. Actually, probably bringing smoking back will help a lot too. Is that on the table?
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Jan 6, 2023 19:34
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Fortunately, there are very simple solutions to the recruitment and health cost problems: Apart from having to learn
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Jan 6, 2023 20:00
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Rust Martialis posted:Apart from having to learn BUsSErNe.
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Jan 6, 2023 20:17
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Revelation 2-13 posted:allow more immigration, since Denmark is still one of the more attractive nations to immigrate to. But the Muslim menace though Revelation 2-13 posted:increase taxes (individual an corporate both thank you) so the increase in health and childcare expenses is offset by an increase in revenue. but the job creators Revelation 2-13 posted:I’m sure our wonderful politicians will get right on that. It’s not like they all ran on anti-immigration campaigns and neoliberal tax cuts. Oh, I see. Yeah, we’re hosed. The only thing that can “””””save””””” us is apparently slashing higher education, despite that being the one thing we’ve had going for us for quite a while. Actually, probably bringing smoking back will help a lot too. Is that on the table? Former health minister Hækkerup would really prefer if you drank yourself to death instead. Tesfaye, being his usual charming self, just announced that the government is aiming to make getting into STX harder. Love to lock kids out of an education based on performance at 14/15. Børnenes statsminister.
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Jan 6, 2023 20:31
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Last i checked, smoking is still a net loss for the state in all demographics except "single urban man with no education". Unfortunately I guess. Good thing we stopped talking about ældrebyrden, thus solving the problem.
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Jan 6, 2023 20:32
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Esran posted:"Guess we're just gonna let it happen." has been the slogan through the entire pandemic. The goal was always only to "flatten the curve", and then just live with having covid hanging around forever once it became endemic. Thankfully there's no downside to repeated COVID infections, like having your immune system destroyed, or developing debilitating chronic illnesses, or something. BonHair posted:Last i checked, smoking is still a net loss for the state in all demographics except "single urban man with no education". Unfortunately I guess. Not if we reintroduce asbestos filters. SplitSoul fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 20:59
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BonHair posted:Last i checked, smoking is still a net loss for the state in all demographics except "single urban man with no education". Unfortunately I guess. I was tangentially involved in a health economics research project some years ago, which was sorta indirectly related to smoking. I'm pretty sure one of the medical researchers (he was a research doctor at riget iirc) was saying that; if you take into account that smokers often die quite quickly (strokes, aneurysm, aggresive lung cancer, and so on) and they often keel over right around retirement age, and that health expenses increase quite substantially for each year over 70, the most expensive for the healthcare system were non-obese, non-smokers and that if everyone stopped smoking today, the overall societal healthcare expense would increase, as more people would live longer and also individually incur more cost, even if you include that smokers are more sick in general and the lost productivity with early deaths. The doctor used it an example of why health economics needed to focus on quality adjusted life years as measures, rather economic cost/value for society, because it often leads to amoral or unethical conclusions (haha, unlike economics applied to every other aspect of society).
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Jan 6, 2023 21:24
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Revelation 2-13 posted:I was tangentially involved in a health economics research project some years ago, which was sorta indirectly related to smoking. I'm pretty sure one of the medical researchers (he was a research doctor at riget iirc) was saying that; if you take into account that smokers often die quite quickly (strokes, aneurysm, aggresive lung cancer, and so on) and they often keel over right around retirement age, and that health expenses increase quite substantially for each year over 70, the most expensive for the healthcare system were non-obese, non-smokers and that if everyone stopped smoking today, the overall societal healthcare expense would increase, as more people would live longer and also individually incur more cost, even if you include that smokers are more sick in general and the lost productivity with early deaths. The doctor used it an example of why health economics needed to focus on quality adjusted life years as measures, rather economic cost/value for society, because it often leads to amoral or unethical conclusions (haha, unlike economics applied to every other aspect of society). My (hard leftist for what it's worth) health economics friend had pretty much the same reasoning, except with the tiny nugget of statical data that said that smokers tend to have long, complicated and expensive deaths (from lung cancer and other fun stuff). Basically, even with the years you save by having people smoke, you still lose money because their short lives are even more expensive (again, except the uneducated urban male). But regardless of whether smokers are an economic benefit or not, having people be healthy in the sense of not smoking should be the goal, not saving pennies. Said friend also taught me to be hard against prioritization of cancer treatment, on account of it being very expensive with kinda bad results in terms of gained days of life, and really bad results if you adjust for how miserable chemo makes you. Diverting funds towards cancer treatment is politically easy, since cancer is common, understandable and horrible, but in terms of health per krone, it's a terrible investment.
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Jan 6, 2023 21:46
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The knowledge that cancer treatment had been de-prioritized due to health per kroner math. It would probably devastate a large part of society. Not only people with or who had cancer. But their friends, relative and people who worry that they may one day get it. I'm not even sure what we're trying to preserve at that point.
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Jan 6, 2023 21:52
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Feliday Melody posted:The knowledge that cancer treatment had been de-prioritized due to health per kroner math. It would probably devastate a large part of society. Not only people with or who had cancer. But their friends, relative and people who worry that they may one day get it. That's why it's a hard sell. Everyone knows someone with cancer, but all the things that we could treat more effectively instead are less known and more varied. But if you want more people to live longer and better, cancer is the wrong place to invest (as far as I know). Early screenings and other specific stuff is still cost efficient I think, so one example could be having 100 doctor finger in butts instead of a month of chemo for a guy who didn't find the prostate cancer before it hurt.
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Jan 6, 2023 22:00
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Cigarettes with asbestos filter sounds like an efficient cost-saving measure.
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Jan 6, 2023 22:28
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BonHair posted:That's why it's a hard sell. Everyone knows someone with cancer, but all the things that we could treat more effectively instead are less known and more varied.
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Jan 6, 2023 22:32
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BonHair posted:That's why it's a hard sell. Everyone knows someone with cancer, but all the things that we could treat more effectively instead are less known and more varied. I'd just rather just tax the rich more or something similar and the buy both the finger butts and chemo.
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Jan 6, 2023 22:34
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evil_bunnY posted:Until the last multi-millionaire has been made not one I don't want to loving hear about using money more effectively. I don't think anyone (except the people in charge and also the majority of the population) disagrees with this. I don't know if we actually have the resources to go full post scarcity utopia (with closed borders lol), but at least if we did a socialism we might actually see how far we could get towards that goal, instead of going towards the current goal of big number. But in a depressing realpolitik world, how to use the limited tax money is relevant in the short term.
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Jan 6, 2023 22:41
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Four people in my family got cancer in 2021, I say tax 'em all.
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Jan 7, 2023 01:04
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"People who get cancer deserve to die" is one hell of a claim to make, especially with it being a group of diseases that kill the second most number of people in the country. Also, it's very easy to pick a cancer that someone has a (faint) chance of detecting, but there's just as many if not more types of cancer that there's no way of detecting short of going through non-invasive whole-body scans - which most people aren't really subjected to on a regular basis, on account of the equipment being used to do non-invasive scans of people who're currently in therapy for something or other. And that money that's been put into research over the last decades? That's gone to significantly raising the survival rate of people who do get a cancer diagnosis, as well as make it so that patients are no longer given near-fatal doses of chemo or radiation, because it's been established through research that there's dose-dependent effectiveness. This, in turn, means that the many more patients who do survive, have fewer (and less severe) chronic issues, don't always get hit as hard by the side-effects, and as a result, more of them can return to work. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 03:05
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Denmark has among the lowest healthy life expectancy in the EU. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Healthy_life_years_statistics Sweden is at the top. Imho our tax systems are not so different, so maybe there are more important aspects to look at What I’m saying is maybe you should eat havregrynsgröt sometimes too, it won’t kill you E: jesus f k your average swedish woman will be healthy for 15 more years than your average danish woman it’s insane, do you guys eat your cigs like popcorn or what? lilljonas fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 15:40
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Generally unhealthy eating habits, I think. So much pork.
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Jan 7, 2023 16:02
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KozmoNaut posted:Generally unhealthy eating habits, I think. But we are owning both the Muslims and the vegans by eating bacon for every meal! This is important! The state of vegetarian food is atrocious in Denmark. The cafeteria at work for example has been forced to make a vegetarian option, which is either meat based dish without meat or meat based dish with meat substitute. Occasionally it will be overcooked vegetables.
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Jan 7, 2023 16:06
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KozmoNaut posted:Generally unhealthy eating habits, I think. Getting phishing emails from fake-HR telling you everyone is getting a bonus certainly ups your cortisol level.
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Jan 7, 2023 16:07
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That too. On the other hand, phishing tests have to actually be convincing. Good thing we know the Hardened Criminal Hackers wouldn't stoop so low as to promise fake bonuses 
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Jan 7, 2023 16:14
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If you read into it, they make the point that different countries use different definitions, and thus these are not 1-to-1 comparisons. If the Swedish definition of a handicap is more restrictive, this would skew the age up relative to everyone else even if the populations were entirely the same. They even single out Sweden as having an unusual increase since the last study, which might indicate a change in definition. That's not to say that Sweden probably isn't ahead, given that they're also a couple of years ahead in terms of life expectancy, but it might not be quite as dramatic as these numbers make it seem.
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Jan 7, 2023 16:48
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Well, despite having substantially fewer healthy years, danish people are still happier than the no-alcohol, no-smoking, no-joy, miserable, repressed swedes. No, for real that’s an insane difference. Makes me wonder how study is operationalised and what the underlying causes are.
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Jan 7, 2023 16:53
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The study is based on self-reported data. Question: For at least the past six months, to what extent have you been limited because of a health problem in activities people usually do? Would you say you have been: severely limited? limited but not severely? not limited at all?’ quote:Limitations of the data Based on the state response to COVID-19, older Swedes are almost certainly lying about their health so they don't get sent to die in nursing homes. Also Danes complain more. It's an opinion poll. 
Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 18:35
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Maybe most of the old sick Swedes just died in the pandemic from neglect.
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Jan 7, 2023 19:54
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Feliday Melody posted:Maybe most of the old sick Swedes just died in the pandemic from neglect. We're basically doing the "cigarettes with asbestos filter" thing.
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Jan 7, 2023 21:00
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You actually cut a notch in the rising life expectancy curve in 2020
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Jan 7, 2023 21:20
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A Buttery Pastry posted:If you read into it, they make the point that different countries use different definitions, and thus these are not 1-to-1 comparisons. If the Swedish definition of a handicap is more restrictive, this would skew the age up relative to everyone else even if the populations were entirely the same. They even single out Sweden as having an unusual increase since the last study, which might indicate a change in definition. a lot of this stuff tends to bounce off how states deal with people who are for some reason unemployable. many countries tend to fob these off on some form of disability. so, if you're a sixty-year-old worker who's been made obsolete for some reason the way society handles you is just saying 'you have a bad back (which is true) and cannot work at the level you're accustomed (which is also true) and so you are now disabled' - it's politically and economically easier than just letting people retire in these cases. if that is the case in denmark but not in sweden - i don't know the details of either system, but i can imagine it - danes will be accustomed to self-reporting unhealthy living more and could help explain this finding.
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Jan 8, 2023 02:37
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Christine Stabell Benn is advising Ron DeSantis. 
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Jan 8, 2023 14:08
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lilljonas posted:Denmark has among the lowest healthy life expectancy in the EU. We keep coming back to that grotesco sketch.
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