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Unlucky7 posted:Is it worth it to make a Beast Tamer or two so I could recruit some beast units? I think so, having a Beast Tamer to recruit dragons in Phorampa Wildwood is great, Water Dragon (breach) and Fire Dragon (weaken) are really good against early bosses.
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Jan 8, 2023 00:43
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Yeah beast units are really useful for a long stretch of the game. For example, gryphons are a great addition to the Canopus Air Force and dragons are awesome tanks.
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Jan 8, 2023 00:50
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Unlucky7 posted:Is it worth it to make a Beast Tamer or two so I could recruit some beast units? I always got more out of their lobber ability than anything to do with beasts but some people have fun with them. I hear dragons are more useful overall though, especially if loaded up with the percentile cure medicines and given dragon scale skill.
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Jan 8, 2023 01:02
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I finally completed the Ji'ylga set in CODA 2 and gave it to Arycelle just to try out. Her ranged attack was over 1700 lol (~1500 after level sync)... but she was only dealing around 170 to enemies. Fusils still outdamaged it. Too bad that archers are so limited, or that the two armor pieces in the set can't be given to a fusil user for the boost.
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Jan 8, 2023 01:27
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The damage formula is extremely harsh on ranged attacks, bows in particular, so they're in a real bad place damage-wise versus anything with any armor whatsoever. Unclear how much of that is intentional or not. This is a pretty detailed explanation as to what's going on if you're curious: https://old.reddit.com/r/Tactics_Ogre/comments/1054y6l/chapter_2_and_my_archers_have_become_a_liability/j3bdh40/ The simple/tl;dr explanation is that armor is significantly more effective against ranged attacks than melee ones because they use different damage formulas. That also explains why, by endgame, 2h fusils are about the only ranged weapons doing meaningful damage: they're the only ones whose ATK stat stands up against armor in that wonky damage calculation. It's one of those things that's realistic--guns are better at piercing plate armor than bows or crossbows--but doesn't make for particularly satisfying game balance in the game as it currently stands. If there was a real call for sniping threatening but lightly-armored targets throughout the game, then the formula would work, because archers would be uniquely capable of taking out those targets quickly and from far away. It wouldn't be as big of a deal that they're bad against armor, since they'd have a valuable role elsewhere. But there really isn't much call for that, and by endgame, every enemy has enough defense that there really aren't many squishies to snipe anymore (and when there are, you just use a summon anyway). Harrow fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 01:37
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I reached the mission where you fight Nybeth and rescue Cressida, had to do it twice because she immediately got killed after I revived her on my first attempt, and then did everything perfectly... only to learn that she won't join unless you engage with some hidden, obtuse mechanic. 
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Jan 8, 2023 03:39
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Darth Nat posted:I reached the mission where you fight Nybeth and rescue Cressida, had to do it twice because she immediately got killed after I revived her on my first attempt, and then did everything perfectly... only to learn that she won't join unless you engage with some hidden, obtuse mechanic. It's annoying and bad, yes. You can circle back after you finish the storyline (if you want to) when you have access to the actual Hidden Obtuse Mechanic Meter, so you'll know if you've got it in the bag or not before attempting. Character recruitment and Side Content Bloat are two of my biggest marks against this game tbh.
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Jan 8, 2023 03:52
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So Steelstance is bugged as well, right? It's supposed to be increased "defense" until next turn, but it it appears to affect magic as well. At least, that's the case with Dark Stalkers in the PoTD.
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Jan 8, 2023 04:31
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Prowler posted:So Steelstance is bugged as well, right? It's supposed to be increased "defense" until next turn, but it it appears to affect magic as well. At least, that's the case with Dark Stalkers in the PoTD. Is that a bug? I assumed it was supposed to affect both physical and magical defense
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Jan 8, 2023 04:37
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If nothing else, Steelstance reduced the damage you took from both physical and magical attacks in the PSP version as well, so if it's a bug it's one with basis in the PSP version. I think it's just poor terminology, not helped by "defense" referring to both physical defense (vs. magic's "magic resist") and also the stat on armor which influences both physical and magical defense.
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Jan 8, 2023 05:50
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Unlucky7 posted:Is it worth it to make a Beast Tamer or two so I could recruit some beast units? You'd only need the one beastmaster and you don't really even need the empower part though it doesn't hurt. Use a hawk man and keep lobber on him to help keep him useful when not recruiting monsters, though their attack and defense isn't bad it just isn't good either. Octopi and griffons are the first available monsters and they are great. They have great range and decent damage when throwing boulders, strong melee through chapter 3, great rt. Griffons fly and have a strong ranged hp siphon attack for added tankiness, stun breath and especially stun breath 2 are super strong up through chapter 3, but by the time you get wind shot their damage already seems to be falling off hard. Octopi are just as if not stronger, especially since poison rain is just a better wind shot available way earlier, but you have to wait for aqua viel to proc before you can use it which can take forever with no skill cards. Water dragons give breach which is great early, dark is good too, fire 3rd best. Around the time you'll want to replace your beasts for units with finishers is around the time dragons get dragon scale (100% dmg reflect) so they stay relevant as tanks. Cyclops you might be able to have some fun with on a couple already easy maps, playing around with all their movement impairing stuff, but they suck at damage and at magic, and movement impairing can be done by a knight or juggernaut or dragon or any number of things and those other units are far more useful. Cocks are like slightly weaker griffons, except their breath petrifies instead of stuns and that seems to have a fairly high proc rate. They're fun. Golems are just another tank and aren't great. Iron looks kinda cool I guess? Zombie octopus you can get pretty early too and that's very fun, but keep it at party level can be a bit of a chore since you have to use charms. So yes I think you should keep a beastmaster around and just scout the field before a fight to see if there's anything you want. E: golem is only recruitable by warlock not beastmaster but whatever Mortimer Knag fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 06:00
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LiefKatano posted:If nothing else, Steelstance reduced the damage you took from both physical and magical attacks in the PSP version as well, so if it's a bug it's one with basis in the PSP version. Mr. Lobe posted:Is that a bug? I assumed it was supposed to affect both physical and magical defense Oh, how annoying, thanks. The description is very specific as compared to phalanx, which just specifies "damage." My generic necromancer is putting in work with Curse II. Very powerful spell. 25 floors to go.
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Jan 8, 2023 06:19
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Does curse cause damage too, or just the status effect? I don't think I've ever used it, my lich is too busy hellhounding mooks to death.
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Jan 8, 2023 06:23
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I love my beasts. They make great zombies too since their huge health pools benefit from the 50% HP from raise dead, and they're so fast that the small speed penalty doesn't matter much. There's a fight in chapter 4 with a gryphon who has dark elemental, which is impossible to apply via charms, and their stun breath benefits from it. There's also a dark cockatrice along the chaos path.. Edit: What curse is good? I tried the lvl 1 version and it was useless, so I just assumed it would remain relatively useless next to other levels. War Wizard fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 06:26
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Tall Tale Teller posted:Does curse cause damage too, or just the status effect? I don't think I've ever used it, my lich is too busy hellhounding mooks to death. It reduces enemy max hp by 15-25%. I've been told that the max hp never returns even when it expires so I guess it does damage in that sense. War Wizard posted:I love my beasts. They make great zombies too since their huge health pools benefit from the 50% HP from raise dead, and they're so fast that the small speed penalty doesn't matter much. Do you happen to remember what fights these are? That's neat. War Wizard posted:Edit: What curse is good? I tried the lvl 1 version and it was useless, so I just assumed it would remain relatively useless next to other levels. It's good and I regret not using it more often. It lowers max hp, makes it so they can't counter and increases their chance to be crit. I wish it was easier to get more copies of Curse II(floor 22 story mission reward in PotD) and III(floor 74 story mission reward from PotD).
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Jan 8, 2023 06:43
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Do you happen to remember what fights these are? That's neat. Gryphon, Dark Element: CH4 Tsorious Field, Andoras boss fight. Cockatrice, Dark Element: CH4 Chaos Qadriga Fortress , After Balmusa dead where Oelias dies. I haven't gone through chaos yet, so I can't confirm cockatrice. Edit: the cockatrice is also a zombie. War Wizard fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 06:54
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I think it’s really funny that making the game mouse controlled resulted in a ui design where you click certain menu buttons on the character sheet and it just lights up the area you’re actually supposed to click.
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Jan 8, 2023 07:11
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It's possible I'll regret this later but I'm just totally ignoring cursed weapons on my PotD deep dive. I know they're the best weapons available but I just don't have it in me to Chariot for ages for their 4% drop rate, and that's before recruiting and/or raising characters just to be sacrifices for them. I'm sure I can clear all of CODA just fine without them. PotD makes me slightly envy the PC players' ability to just set drop rates to 100% lol edit: also I made Denam a Lich temporarily so he could learn Reflection and lmao that ability is loving nuts. Love to watch enemy casters just delete themselves when they try to hit the team with an AoE and five people reflect it back. Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 14:45
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Harrow posted:It's possible I'll regret this later but I'm just totally ignoring cursed weapons on my PotD deep dive. I know they're the best weapons available but I just don't have it in me to Chariot for ages for their 4% drop rate, and that's before recruiting and/or raising characters just to be sacrifices for them. I'm sure I can clear all of CODA just fine without them. That's not really true anymore. Their only real advantage is their 0 weight and being able to customize them as you want. In terms of raw power, there are better relics. I'd really only use them as stat sticks for characters like White Knights where your damage doesn't really matter. Or as an offhand for dual wielders. I guess the only cursed weapons I'd say are good would be hammers, spears and daggers. You can absolutely clear CODA without them.
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Jan 8, 2023 16:58
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I want to say Cursed weapons also aren't affected by the scaling mechanic. It's been a couple weeks since I played but cursed weapons never had the blue/red icon on them for me when WORLDing around. There's definitely a place for them but in terms of raw numbers, highly fused relics will beat them nearly every time.
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Jan 8, 2023 17:26
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Even as stat sticks, it's like, if you're going to do PotD for Cursed Weapons anyway you're gonna be drowning in stat charms, so the ~10 or so stat point from the weapon isn't super impressive
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Jan 8, 2023 19:28
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That’s good to hear because I couldn’t bring myself to sacrifice anyone for Cursed weapon bullshit anyway. I’m that nerd.
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Jan 8, 2023 19:29
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I hear ozma with a cursed whip is a menace but it's hard to put any melee character in the same breath as a summoner in the post game
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Jan 8, 2023 19:33
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I got a cursed 2h sword, and was waiting to hit the level cap to use it, but once I did the math, it seems kind of pointless? Unless I'm willing to charm up a unit crazy high, but then why wouldn't I just keep the super unit. Making them into a weapon is counter productive.
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Jan 8, 2023 19:58
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Mr. Lobe posted:I hear ozma with a cursed whip is a menace but it's hard to put any melee character in the same breath as a summoner in the post game Is it her with a Cursed Whip, or her with the Whip That Inflicts Curse? War Wizard posted:I got a cursed 2h sword, and was waiting to hit the level cap to use it, but once I did the math, it seems kind of pointless? Unless I'm willing to charm up a unit crazy high, but then why wouldn't I just keep the super unit. Making them into a weapon is counter productive. Even with Charms, it's like, burning through 20 Strength Charms on one character to get one extra point of Strength on a weapon is such a bad trade.
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Jan 8, 2023 20:25
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I have some of my recruits from the beginning of the game that I'll never use, so they will become a sacrifice for my one cursed weapon: ...fists. I mean I'm happy to have found any at all! I am very much running out of steam here. I'm up to around B74. To keep my sanity, I let the AI farm and didn't worry about getting specific things.
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Jan 8, 2023 21:17
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TurnipFritter posted:Is it her with a Cursed Whip, or her with the Whip That Inflicts Curse? The cursed whip makes her incredibly fast, but the whip that curses is also nice.
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Jan 8, 2023 21:39
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:That's not really true anymore. Their only real advantage is their 0 weight and being able to customize them as you want. In terms of raw power, there are better relics. I'd really only use them as stat sticks for characters like White Knights where your damage doesn't really matter. Or as an offhand for dual wielders. Oh well that's nice at least. I also wasn't all that interested in sacrificing units to make good weapons, so I'll happily just pretend they don't exist. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I guess the only cursed weapons I'd say are good would be hammers, spears and daggers. Though this is also the list of my favorite melee weapon types lol But yeah I get your point, they seem pretty safely ignorable.
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Jan 8, 2023 21:56
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Would the cursed bow improve the usability of archers? The charm bow is pretty decent not for damage, but the chaos of constant charms. The damage the enemy does to itself is an acceptable offset for doing almost none on my own. Oh! quick question! I'm thinkin I'd rather kill Sara, world back, then re-recruit her if it means I can make her a fusilier at lvl 10 or whatever she comes at and level her back up with the superior stat growth. Is that a thing I can do? Or does she recruit at my average level? If I zombify her do I get 2? I know she's not much better than any other generic, but I want to make the most of her. Maybe I'll recruit the alternative cleric while I'm at it.
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Jan 8, 2023 22:29
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War Wizard posted:Would the cursed bow improve the usability of archers? The charm bow is pretty decent not for damage, but the chaos of constant charms. The damage the enemy does to itself is an acceptable offset for doing almost none on my own. I haven't tried it myself, but I have heard that when you recruit them back they are at their starting level. So yea if you really wanted to you could push Sara off a cliff, then world back and recruit / level her up in another class for growths. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 22:39
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Is there any documentation on how weapon skill level affects damage in Reborn?
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Jan 8, 2023 23:55
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I cleared the final CODA 2 fight after some trial and error. It wasn't as bad as I expected, but I already knew to an extent how the fight worked. The trick was taking advantage of the AI's unwillingness to use buffs and ailments. I brought Rudlum with charm and no offensive magic (I changed Deneb to shaman earlier so not an option), and other characters had equipment with boon of swiftness charges. Denam was the muscle (ogre set + lord class), Vyce for support with lobber, and Gildas sans weapon and some armor was a decoy with velocity shift. To make sure Rudlum's charm would hit, I gave him my stock of 30+ MND charms. Once dopple Denam was charmed it was straightforward.
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Jan 8, 2023 23:57
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Dumb question: How proactive should a be about loyalty mechanics? I just started Chapter 2 and chose to not participate in the massacre. The problem is my current army is pretty much all Wallister and the tutorials say that units fighting their own clan is not good for loyalty. I know you can kind of check units loyalty by activating the help and going to their name. What I am wondering is if I should get a few Galastan units now or wait until I see someone's loyalty wavering.
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Jan 9, 2023 01:53
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Unlucky7 posted:Dumb question: How proactive should a be about loyalty mechanics? I just started Chapter 2 and chose to not participate in the massacre. The problem is my current army is pretty much all Wallister and the tutorials say that units fighting their own clan is not good for loyalty. I know you can kind of check units loyalty by activating the help and going to their name. What I am wondering is if I should get a few Galastan units now or wait until I see someone's loyalty wavering. There's only really 2 points that you have to worry about loyalty from what I can remember. One is for recruiting a certain character but you can grind loyalty in training stages to boost it before you recruit her (i think it's called death marching if you want to look that up) and then at another point a certain character can get upset with you for a story choice, but if you get the warning message you can grind it up in training once again.
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Jan 9, 2023 01:57
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Mortimer Knag posted:There's only really 2 points that you have to worry about loyalty from what I can remember. One is for recruiting a certain character but you can grind loyalty in training stages to boost it before you recruit her (i think it's called death marching if you want to look that up) and then at another point a certain character can get upset with you for a story choice, but if you get the warning message you can grind it up in training once again. Ah, I missed that. So training boosts loyalty if I need it? That is good to know.
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Jan 9, 2023 02:00
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Unlucky7 posted:Ah, I missed that. So training boosts loyalty if I need it? That is good to know. Oh wait no I was thinking of chaos frame my bad disregard. I think there still is a way with the death marching but it's like a whole process that involves retreating from training after downing most of your own team But even still you won't have to worry about loyalty in a normal playthrough except for a unique archer in chapter 3n. Loyalty raises when the unit gains a skill rank though, so if she does get mad at you, you can switch her weapon skill and gain a few quick levels and itll rise Mortimer Knag fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 02:23
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Mortimer Knag posted:Oh wait no I was thinking of chaos frame my bad disregard. I think there still is a way with the death marching but it's like a whole process that involves retreating from training after downing most of your own team Now I am back to being confused about loyalty then.
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Jan 9, 2023 02:25
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you basically never have to worry about loyalty because you seemingly get loyalty boosts from getting skill levels
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Jan 9, 2023 02:31
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unless you do an excessive amount of completely unnecessary deliberate grinding, the only time loyalty is ever a problem is arycelle in neutral. also, you can raise loyalty by gaining weapon skill ranks so even that one situation is very easy to prevent.
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Jan 9, 2023 02:31
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efb You can increase loyalty really easily by just ranking up weapon skills. Each rank up gives like +5 or +10 so by just playing the game basically any unit you use will love you to bits. And if you are super paranoid, you can just change weapons and skill up something else for even more loyalty. Don't even worry about Loyalty. You aren't going to make any units leave just by just playing through the game normally. It basically matters for one char and you will know when you do it. And then for that char you can immediately toss them a different weapon they can equip and go rank it up a few times in training and they will be fine.
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Jan 9, 2023 02:33
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