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Literally struggling to imagine how I would feel if I found out every communication with my "therapist" was actually with a SV tech company under no external regulatory bodies. Standard of care is enough of a problem, but the concept that all those messages are stored in some random AWS enterprise account... jfc.
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Jan 7, 2023 21:06
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There probably is a space for a super-chatbot to help with help line stuff, but it will take a lot of the right work to get there. Crisis hotline stuff especially is emotionally draining work, and a lot of it is just listening to folks, making comforting statements, and following a loose script, but the time you do need to speak up are hugely important and you can't afford to gently caress that up. There might be a useful place for the chatbot to help in training the helpline folks, or maybe provide helpful feedback after the fact, but there would absolutely need to be privacy and it tech should just forget about trying to make money off of this.
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Jan 7, 2023 21:11
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That's such a huge GDPR violation that it actually is funny. Fun fact: if you put it all in the ML training pool, you'd have to delete it all if even one person asks to have their data deleted. Or eat a fine of 4% or your annual turnover. I love working for a Swiss-based company. Management actually gives a drat about this, and not just because of the fine.
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Jan 7, 2023 21:13
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pumpinglemma posted:they took their own existing platform where a bunch of people were doing volunteer amateur psych work Why is this a thing that exists
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Jan 7, 2023 21:23
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Jose Valasquez posted:Why is this a thing that exists Because American healthcare, and especially mental healthcare, sucks, is slow to intake, and expensive.
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Jan 7, 2023 21:26
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Jose Valasquez posted:Why is this a thing that exists Because there's no profit in it. Throwing machine learning at it is an attempt to make it profitable, which is also why this is one of those obviously horrible ideas we're going to be seeing a lot more. Also gathers a lot of stuff to train basically any other system that needs a lot of input of how people became stressed or miserable and what will make it worse, or better I guess but don't bank on that being what the data is bought for.
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Jan 7, 2023 21:45
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Maybe this is widely known and I've just been blissfully unaware but Jesus Christ how is this real lmao https://twitter.com/PoliticsAndEd/status/1611808191733727232
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Jan 7, 2023 22:14
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Jose Valasquez posted:Why is this a thing that exists I have a friend who volunteered for a group that does this. Most of the people she talked to are some combination of too broke to pay for therapy, in a situation where they can't physically go to a therapist (eg they've been isolated by an abuser), caught up in toxic masculinity (eg afraid if they admit to suicidal ideation to a professional their guns will get taken away), or in crisis bad enough to need someone to talk to right now in an area where actual therapists have months-long wait lists.
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Jan 7, 2023 22:15
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Jose Valasquez posted:Why is this a thing that exists
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Jan 7, 2023 22:18
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Anno posted:Maybe this is widely known and I've just been blissfully unaware but Jesus Christ how is this real lmao It's cool how blatant Musk can be that he never intended to develop any sort of transportation system out of it, because he'd have bothered to have Tesla build 20 or so custom cars with no controls and just have them actually self-driving in a loop using markers embedded in the road to navigate rather than just employing drivers to go in circles.
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Jan 7, 2023 22:21
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The Vegas loop is a Boring Co grift distinct from hyperloop, which is an imaginary grift that will never exist. They both share loop names to be deliberately confusing
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Jan 7, 2023 23:37
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pumpinglemma posted:Looks like it wasn't quite that bad. They didn't pair people looking for mental health support up with GPT-3 directly without oversight. Instead, they took their own existing platform where a bunch of people were doing volunteer amateur psych work, and offered GPT-3 to a subset of them to help them craft responses (to use as a tool as they saw fit) - presumably as a precursor to rolling it out as a tool for volunteers more widely. That's still on fairly shaky ground - "I took my new prototype rocket-powered chainsaw design and gave it to the local amateur lumberjack club to try out, if anything happens it's their fault for using it wrong" isn't the best ethical justification possible. But as a non-expert it doesn't sound awful beyond reasonable doubt - it feels like it might be possible to do something like this ethically, and it's almost certainly legal. Put it like this, if I heard a university ethics board had signed off on something like this as a study after substantial vetting then I would have been surprised but not outraged. Unfortunately, that tweet is just spin. Describing it as using AI "to help them craft responses" is an intentionally misleading frame, adopted in direct response to the blowback they were facing. He posted a video that showed exactly what's going on. https://twitter.com/RobertRMorris/status/1611450205206888451 The user's message goes to a human intermediary, who forwards the message to GPT-3. The response from GPT-3 is sent back to the human intermediary, who decides whether or not to send it onward to the user. It's probably possible to run this as an ethical experiment, with informed consent and oversight by an ethics board. But there was no informed consent, there was no ethics oversight. Hell, were there even scientists designing a controlled experiment, or was it just a CEO with delusions of grandeur running A/B-testing on their users with less rigor than a supermarket CEO testing different shelf layouts?
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Jan 8, 2023 01:44
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Oh holy poo poo. Right, that’s going in my lecture video for next year on “what not to do” for ethics in CS student projects. That guy needs to be in jail.
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Jan 8, 2023 01:47
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i hope AI replace marketing spin/PR itself first.
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Jan 8, 2023 02:08
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This seems overblown. It’s akin to providing two playbooks of template responses to two sets of volunteers and you monitoring their work to see which playbook works better. There’s a non-zero chance GPT-3 enables a superior service by providing faster, more updated, more tailored responses than, say, a literal book of template responses. These are amateur volunteers where their default responses may not have been great to begin with. And ultimately they still have full discretion over how to use their new resource.
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Jan 8, 2023 02:10
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Tesla "full self driving" failing the mirror test: https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/105uquk/tesla_fsd_confused_with_the_reflection_of_itself Though honestly I'm not sure how well the other self driving car companies do with this either.
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Jan 8, 2023 03:30
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Vegetable posted:This seems overblown. It’s akin to providing two playbooks of template responses to two sets of volunteers and you monitoring their work to see which playbook works better. Even leaving all that aside, you're not teaching people how to grout their bathrooms, you're trying to get them through a mental health crisis. If you get it wrong, people die or get seriously hurt. This is not a situation for "eh, gently caress it, let's just do an A/B test on a few thousand unknowing people, move fast and break things amirite?" because by doing so you are guaranteed to hurt people by giving them suboptimal care. This is a situation where you need to get the best version possible first and release it to the public second. It would be a huge breach of medical ethics to do this even with two physical training handbooks unless each one had been tested thoroughly for safety first and unless each participant was told in advance (at absolute minimum) that you were running a study and that there was a 50% chance they'd get handbook A and a 50% chance they'd get handbook B. Like, I'm not one of the people in my department who properly teaches CS ethics. My research is based around pushing numbers and symbols around so I'm not qualified to do so, and ethics are covered in the project unit's prerequisites, so I just do a quick refresher so that the people who slept through it first time round don't go out and experiment on children or anything. But I think I could still run a pretty good half-hour workshop based on just having students take this idea and rip it to shreds in as many different ways as they can manage.
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Jan 8, 2023 03:48
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On the other hand, move fast and break people.
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Jan 8, 2023 03:55
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Vegetable posted:This seems overblown. It’s akin to providing two playbooks of template responses to two sets of volunteers and you monitoring their work to see which playbook works better. In a near-ideal world it definitely could help, but if folks move fast and break things then folks can lose trust in the whole institution of therapy, and that is something we should prevent, and something the existing guard rails are there to prevent. IMO, folks should always know if they're talking to a person or a robot. It's just polite. They should have told folks they may be talking to a robot, and let people refuse and talk to a real person. Privacy issues are also real, folks should be able to opt out.
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Jan 8, 2023 04:01
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Cicero posted:Tesla "full self driving" failing the mirror test: https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/105uquk/tesla_fsd_confused_with_the_reflection_of_itself tbf, has Musk "im in Da matrix, im the protag, youre all NPC" himself passed the mirror test?
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Jan 8, 2023 04:10
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Cicero posted:Tesla "full self driving" failing the mirror test: https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/105uquk/tesla_fsd_confused_with_the_reflection_of_itself Since they aren't vision based, they probably don't have the same issue.
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Jan 8, 2023 04:42
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duz posted:Since they aren't vision based, they probably don't have the same issue.
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Jan 8, 2023 04:45
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Yeah but a LIDAR system can recognize a mirror as a flat reflective object. LIDAR already uses reflected light.
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Jan 8, 2023 04:57
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Thanks Ants posted:It's cool how blatant Musk can be that he never intended to develop any sort of transportation system out of it, because he'd have bothered to have Tesla build 20 or so custom cars with no controls and just have them actually self-driving in a loop using markers embedded in the road to navigate rather than just employing drivers to go in circles. The person who made that video seems to really find it awesome though. I mean the alternative would've been a chunky twenty minute walk, you wouldn't want THAT.
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Jan 8, 2023 09:45
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Anno posted:Maybe this is widely known and I've just been blissfully unaware but Jesus Christ how is this real lmao So it's basically a more costly train system?
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Jan 8, 2023 18:20
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Electric Phantasm posted:So it's basically a more costly train system? I think it's cheaper because it's smaller, and they didn't do any safety. But less efficient, fewer stops, ECT ECT
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Jan 8, 2023 19:15
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Electric Phantasm posted:So it's basically a more costly train system? Not even that. It's just a more costly, limited use, highly dangerous car tunnel system.
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Jan 8, 2023 19:16
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It would literally be more efficient (and safer) if they'd just let people walk through the tunnel. It's not even two miles long.
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Jan 8, 2023 19:25
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I was curious about how the "20 minute walk" compared to the time it took to take that tunnel.
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Jan 8, 2023 19:27
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HootTheOwl posted:I think it's cheaper because it's smaller, and they didn't do any safety. This is correct, also The Boring Company's boast of how they do everything twice as fast is because they...make their tunnels half the size of everyone else. They use the exact same tunnelling equipment everyone else does.
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Jan 8, 2023 19:33
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Elias_Maluco posted:Is this even legal? pumpinglemma posted:Looks like it wasn't quite that bad. They didn't pair people looking for mental health support up with GPT-3 directly without oversight. Instead, they took their own existing platform where a bunch of people were doing volunteer amateur psych work, and offered GPT-3 to a subset of them to help them craft responses (to use as a tool as they saw fit) - presumably as a precursor to rolling it out as a tool for volunteers more widely. That's still on fairly shaky ground - "I took my new prototype rocket-powered chainsaw design and gave it to the local amateur lumberjack club to try out, if anything happens it's their fault for using it wrong" isn't the best ethical justification possible. But as a non-expert it doesn't sound awful beyond reasonable doubt - it feels like it might be possible to do something like this ethically, and it's almost certainly legal. Put it like this, if I heard a university ethics board had signed off on something like this as a study after substantial vetting then I would have been surprised but not outraged. Holy poo poo it's literally a Torment Nexus situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcYztBmf_y8&t=145s TL;DW: Video essay that combos talking about a video game where a "therapist" is nothing more than a human face for an AI system to diagnose and "treat" people and you have to wrestle with the terrible decisions and broken logic of a terrible AI and the current broken hosed up state of mental health "apps" like Better Health which seeks to just commodify mental health treatment as if it's nothing more than "if behavior X use counter behavior Y". This poo poo is ghoulish.
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Jan 8, 2023 19:35
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I was curious about how the "20 minute walk" compared to the time it took to take that tunnel. I would guess that it's not a 20 minute time saving once you've dealt with getting into the 'station', having a car arrive etc. The distance between two of the stops on this tunnel is only three times longer than a Crossrail train.
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Jan 8, 2023 19:51
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Neo Rasa posted:This is correct, also The Boring Company's boast of how they do everything twice as fast is because they...make their tunnels half the size of everyone else. They use the exact same tunnelling equipment everyone else does. that everyone else does.......for sewage tunnels. These are absolutely commercially available and common TBMs that literally dozens of companies across the country use on a daily basis to make not-vehicle-sized holes for pipes that carry water, sewage, fiber, power, etc. There is nothing unique about any of this other than "what if we make a tunnel too small for safety equipment and emergency egress".
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Jan 8, 2023 19:52
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Yes, the costs are completely in line with the costs of doing cable tunnels https://tunnelcraft.co.uk/portfolio-items/lower-lea-valley-cable-tunnel-tbm/
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Jan 8, 2023 20:51
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Perestroika posted:It would literally be more efficient (and safer) if they'd just let people walk through the tunnel. It's not even two miles long. Of just walk anywhere for 20 minutes. Jesus christ, what problem is this designed to solve exactly? Rocko Bonaparte posted:I was curious about how the "20 minute walk" compared to the time it took to take that tunnel. Negligible from what I can tell, especially when one factors in the cost. It just seems like another Elon Musk "hey, wouldn't this be loving COOL" waste of money because what else are billionaires gonna do I guess. But let's not build any high speed rail from SF to LA, Atlanta to Miami/Orlando or NYC to Chicago because...? I mean, god drat, imagine just one accident, fire or medical emergency in that stupid tube and how first responders might even TRY to get there.
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Jan 8, 2023 21:11
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Motronic posted:that everyone else does.......for sewage tunnels. These are absolutely commercially available and common TBMs that literally dozens of companies across the country use on a daily basis to make not-vehicle-sized holes for pipes that carry water, sewage, fiber, power, etc. There is nothing unique about any of this other than "what if we make a tunnel too small for safety equipment and emergency egress". It's the ultimate 'tech disruption' where there isn't even any tech it's just 'what if we ignore laws and common sense'. (Of course all tech disruption has that but in this case it's *only* that)
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Jan 8, 2023 22:25
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HootTheOwl posted:I think it's cheaper because it's smaller, and they didn't do any safety. That said, as far as walking goes Vegas does get extremely hot in the summer. Average highs in July/Aug are over 100f (38+ C).
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Jan 8, 2023 22:31
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If you're building something that moves as slowly as the cars do in that tunnel then you could make it a people mover (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ULTra_(rapid_transit)), this was just a way of getting someone else to pay for a permanent Tesla advert
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Jan 8, 2023 22:43
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Thanks Ants posted:If you're building something that moves as slowly as the cars do in that tunnel then you could make it a people mover (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ULTra_(rapid_transit)), this was just a way of getting someone else to pay for a permanent Tesla advert Exactly. Plus a people mover would avoid how the hyperloop is such a shitpile on every level that it doesn't even approach its primary goal of supposedly reducing traffic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfPqQZaMADs This was the best one: Even the professional Tesla hyperloop driver talking about how slow it gets and how boring it is to trudge through this thing over and over again lol https://twitter.com/pixelnull/status/1479086874140594176 I still can't believe even with Musk being a 100% crappy little bullshit man that the actual incarnation of the hyperloop was that someone else has to drive you across it. A tunnel you personally CANNOT drive through at all is going to keep you from driving through traffic. Genius. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 05:26
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It's literally just to get across the Convention Centre from the parking lot. It's a glorified valet service but in a lovely tunnel. IIRC the contract also requires Boring Co to move a huge number more people than is even possible with this system, or they have to pay massive penalties. So the only people paying for this are Boring Co itself. Lead out in cuffs fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 07:26
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